I've been told that the alternator for a Jaguar costs $800.

I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator, but if parts for a car like that are prohibitively expensive, the only reason someone would want to drive a car like that is to prove to other people that they can afford the expensive maintenance that goes along with it. I think most mature people don't care enough about what other people think to make that a good reason to own a Jag. I for one would much prefer a car that was easy and cheap to repair.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2014 04:19:24 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Depends on the car. MOST are now accessed from under the dash. Worst
one I experienced was on , IIRC, an XJC Jag.

I'm glad Jaguar hasn't lost their evil ways. iirc, and meaningful work on
an
XK150 started with disassembling most of the car. They were pretty though.

I owned a Mark X and to this day believe that when they built the car, some
dude held the power steering pump in place while they built the car around
it. I had an aftermarket AC on the car (installed by previous owner) that
hung off the front of the engine block with a bracket that blocked access to
the number 1 spark plug. You had to remove the AC and all the belts for the
alternator, water pump, etc. just to service it. While I can't blame Jaguar
per se for that, it was the worst design I've ever encountered.

Even the Volvo 142's windshield wiper motor was easier to get to. I just
drilled into the dash using a wide diameter hole saw. The engine, a tiny 4
banger that sat in the middle of a cavernous engine compartment, was so
accessible you could probably fit two people into the compartment along with
the engine. Both the Jag and the Volvo were made of very thick steel that
has long since disappeared from cars because of weight. The Jag required an
extra fee at registration time because it was so heavy.

Anyone here ever have to tune wire wheels by hand? Make tuning three Solex
carbs look like child's play. (-:

Not sure how many other cars had it, but the Mark X had "anti-creep"
controls which applied pressure to the brakes if the car was at idle even if
you took your foot off the brake. Until the engine sputtered or died, that
is.
And being a Jag, that was WHEN, not IF.

nestork wrote:

I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator, but
if parts for a car like that are prohibitively expensive, the only
reason someone would want to drive a car like that is to prove to other
people that they can afford the expensive maintenance that goes along
with it.

They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't even
think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy it.

Of course, there are a few models where you need to make an appointment with
your mechanic to borrow it when you want to drive it, but there are a few
more options in the garage.

"Robert Green" wrote:
"rbowman" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Depends on the car. MOST are now accessed from under the dash. Worst
one I experienced was on , IIRC, an XJC Jag.

I'm glad Jaguar hasn't lost their evil ways. iirc, and meaningful work on
an
XK150 started with disassembling most of the car. They were pretty though.

I owned a Mark X and to this day believe that when they built the car, some
dude held the power steering pump in place while they built the car around
it. I had an aftermarket AC on the car (installed by previous owner) that
hung off the front of the engine block with a bracket that blocked access to
the number 1 spark plug. You had to remove the AC and all the belts for the
alternator, water pump, etc. just to service it. While I can't blame Jaguar
per se for that, it was the worst design I've ever encountered.

Even the Volvo 142's windshield wiper motor was easier to get to. I just
drilled into the dash using a wide diameter hole saw. The engine, a tiny 4
banger that sat in the middle of a cavernous engine compartment, was so
accessible you could probably fit two people into the compartment along with
the engine. Both the Jag and the Volvo were made of very thick steel that
has long since disappeared from cars because of weight. The Jag required an
extra fee at registration time because it was so heavy.

Anyone here ever have to tune wire wheels by hand? Make tuning three Solex
carbs look like child's play. (-:

Not sure how many other cars had it, but the Mark X had "anti-creep"
controls which applied pressure to the brakes if the car was at idle even if
you took your foot off the brake. Until the engine sputtered or died, that
is.

--
Bobby G.

It's the opposite of 'anti-creep' but the Subaru has had a Hill Holding
Clutch system for years. As long as the nose of the car is higher than the
rear end, you can depress the clutch, remove your foot from the brake and
the brake will remain on until you release the clutch. It works even on the
steepest hills.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2014 21:49:40 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

nestork wrote:

I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator, but
if parts for a car like that are prohibitively expensive, the only
reason someone would want to drive a car like that is to prove to other
people that they can afford the expensive maintenance that goes along
with it.

They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't even
think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy it.

Of course, there are a few models where you need to make an appointment with
your mechanic to borrow it when you want to drive it, but there are a few
more options in the garage.
Caddilac was that way a few years ago - several friends had DeVilles
that had their own dedicated space at the dealership. Owners put more
miles on couresy cars than their own in the first 2 years. One had 5
different Caddys in 3 years before he bought a Lexus.

Neighbour had a Mecedes E-Class and a 5 series Bimmer. Both spent an
average of 5 or 6 days a month in the shop. Bought a Toyota Supra and
it didn't have a single breakdown in 300,000km. Just scheduled service
-less than 1 day a month the way he put the miles on

rbowman wrote:
nestork wrote:

I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator, but
if parts for a car like that are prohibitively expensive, the only
reason someone would want to drive a car like that is to prove to other
people that they can afford the expensive maintenance that goes along
with it.

They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator.

....snip...

I've never fully agreed with that theory. It's akin to "Anyone that can
afford that big of a lawn can afford to have someone else take care of it."
or "Anyone that can afford that big of a boat can afford to have someone
else drive it."

Maybe the $75k he dropped on the XJ was his last $75k. Maybe the mortgage
on the house that has that huge lawn takes up every last dime the owner
has. Same for the boat.

My only point is that we have no way of knowing if the guy behind the wheel
or the guy sitting in the lawn or the guy out on the lake has any money
left after buying those items. Maybe that big ticket item was all that he
could afford and he's willing to scrimp on other things or do some of the
maintenance himself. We really don't know just by looking.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 04:46:59 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote in


My only point is that we have no way of knowing if the guy behind the wheel
or the guy sitting in the lawn or the guy out on the lake has any money
left after buying those items.

That's why people who really can't afford an item buy it. They are
hoping people will think that they actually can afford it. They need
that to feel good about themselves.

It's a basis of the conspicuous consumption ethic.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

No, that's not true.

Over the past 3 or 4 years I let it be known that I was thinking of selling my apartment block. It's got copper water supply plumbing and copper wiring, I've kept my allowable rent high by raising it by the allowable guideline each year and it's in an excellent location here in Winnipeg. That caught the attention of some of the wealthiest land developers here. They wanted to buy the building and convert it into condos or renovate it and rent out the units for $1000+ monthly rents. In either case, they wanted to pour money into the building with the prospect of getting their money back and more.

And, I found all of those people to be absolutely no different than anyone else. They all worked for their money and they all wanted the best value they can get for every dollar they spend. I did find them to be more generous than most other people. When I said I wouldn't mind staying on in the building as a caretaker, they were willing to gut all three rooms with storage lockers in them to allow me to store all my tools and personal effects that wouldn't fit in my apartment (which I would live in rent-free).

I expect the only people that wouldn't care how much it costs to maintain a car would be the children of the fabulously wealthy that never had to work for their money. That is, the Paris Hiltons of the world. But, even that doesn't cut it because wealthy people are also generally both responsible and conservative and raise their kids to be careful with their money. They know that times and fortunes can change with fashion and technology and they want their kids to be able to survive such changes on their own. One of the wealthiest Canadians, Mr. Israel Asper had his children get degrees in law even though only one of them works as a lawyer. Two others basically work as "philanthropists" doling out money to charitable organizations and worthy causes. Izzy Asper owned the Global Television Network here in Canada which was the 3rd largest television network in our country. He made his money from advertising on his TV network.

The image of someone lighting a cigar using a burning $100 bill is a myth. The really wealthy people are no different than you or I. They all want the best value for their money that they can get regardless of how much money they already have. They're just more generous when it comes to helping other people.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I've never fully agreed with that theory. It's akin to "Anyone that can
afford that big of a lawn can afford to have someone else take care of
it." or "Anyone that can afford that big of a boat can afford to have
someone else drive it."

Maybe the $75k he dropped on the XJ was his last $75k. Maybe the mortgage
on the house that has that huge lawn takes up every last dime the owner
has. Same for the boat.

My only point is that we have no way of knowing if the guy behind the
wheel or the guy sitting in the lawn or the guy out on the lake has any
money left after buying those items. Maybe that big ticket item was all
that he could afford and he's willing to scrimp on other things or do some
of the maintenance himself. We really don't know just by looking.

I'm funny that way. I figure anyone that goes in hock for something they
can't really afford needs a reality check. U do realize, of course, I'm
talking about a sugnificant proportion of US citizens, to say nothing of the
entire country.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't
even
think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy it.


My way of thinking is that if you can afford a car like that, you do not
keep it long enough for anything to wear out.

The dealers do not want people to drive around in the older expensive cars
either , so they make the repair parts expensive so they get a bad
reputation as to repair cost.

Every two years a multi millionare man I know of would trade in his wifes
car usually with less than 10,000 on it. He told his wife that it just
would not look right for someone of their social standing to drive around in
a car older than two years. The car was usually a big Mercury or other
pricey looking car.

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 9:44:29 PM UTC-4, nestork wrote:
I've been told that the alternator for a Jaguar costs $800.



I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator,


I expect that you don't know what you're talking about. I can see
an alternator costing $800 if you take a Jaguar to the dealer, bend over,
and say, let me have it please. Same with a MB, BMW. Most American
brand dealers will charge you whatever they can too.

But if you want to buy an alternator that fits your Jag from an auto
parts store, they generally can be had for a price similar to any
alternator and more like $100 to $200 than $800. I just looked.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 9:44:29 PM UTC-4, nestork wrote:

But if you want to buy an alternator that fits your Jag from an auto
parts store, they generally can be had for a price similar to any
alternator and more like $100 to $200 than $800. I just looked.



That is probably for a rebuilt unit and you often get a core charge if you
turn in the old one for rebuilding. I bet most dealers just put in a new
one, or go to the parts store and get a rebuilt one and charge for a new
one.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:

I owned a Mark X and to this day believe that when they built the car,
some dude held the power steering pump in place while they built the car
around it.

I had a '51 Chevy where the master cylinder definitely was the first thing
bolted to the frame before the body was added. It wasn't on the firewall
but
was under the floor. There was an inspection plate so you could fill it,
but
heaven help the poor ******* (me) who had to remove it to replace the
seals.

I must admit I came to respect Japanese auto engineering when I bought my
first Honda and saw how easy they had made access for routine maintanence
tasks. All except the part where spinning off the oil filter from a hot
engine was guaranteed to get you a nasty burn from the exhaust manifold
unless you wore gloves or were very, VERY careful.

In terms of injuries sustained, building my own PC's drew a lot more blood
than working on cars ever did because the very early clone cases abounded in
super sharp edges. Almost every PC I built has my initials written in my
own blood. Yes. It was a primitive and superstitious thing to do but it
seemed appropriate after a burr on a case edge opened up a deep gash and
left me with all this blood to write with. Eventually even the cheapest
cases (which by that time - 1990 I think - were coming from Vietnam) had
rolled edges and fewer razor sharp edges.

The bloodiest jobs I ever undertook on cars was messing around with exhaust
systems, especially frozen clamps. I remember once (before I learned to
ALWAYS use heavy gloves) cutting myself up so that I needed six stitches and
a tetanus shot. I was pulling one section of exhaust pipe and it suddenly
gave way and by hand shot backwards and right onto to a rusted out but still
"oh so sharp" piece of pipe.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

Fist step in removing the back spark plug - remove back bumper - - -

When I finally got around to removing the Mark X's after-market AC (to fix a
water pump, not to change the number one spark plug) the plug was so
incredibly fouled it was clear I had been driving with only five cylinders
for a long, long time. But like the Madden joke (he drops a quarter in a
urinal by accident and then throws a $50 bill in after it, saying "You don't
think I am going in there for a 25 cents?) I didn't "go in" until something
else required taking off all the belt-driven accessories. It was a
remarkable pain in the ass.

It wasn't until some time later when I had to pull the head and do a valve
job that I saw how badly fouled the valves for that first cylinder were.
It's really hard to understand how *anyone* thought blocking the first
cylinder with an attachment point for the AC was a good idea. To be fair,
there weren't really any other good options considering how closely packed
things were under the hood.

Funny thing. Even though I am losing a lot of other memories, I spent so
much time under the hood of that car I can still see things very clearly in
my mind.

--
Bobby G.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

I've been told that the alternator for a Jaguar costs $800.

The 1963 Mark X I bought used in 1971 cost me $500. I eventually sold it
for $5,000 after I restored it to doctor who worked in terminal pediatrics
at Johns Hopkins because he needed something (unlike his poor little
patients) that he could fix by throwing enough money and effort at it.

I expect the auto parts store makes a fat profit on that alternator, but
if parts for a car like that are prohibitively expensive, the only
reason someone would want to drive a car like that is to prove to other
people that they can afford the expensive maintenance that goes along
with it.

There are certainly other reasons. I wanted to restore a car and the Jaguar
seemed to offer the most bang for the buck. I really wanted an XK-E but
even back then you wouldn't find anything restorable in that model for $500.

I think most mature people don't care enough about what other
people think to make that a good reason to own a Jag. I for one would
much prefer a car that was easy and cheap to repair.

While that was my first and last Jaguar, but I can see why people spend huge
sums on restored XK-E roadsters. There was nothing else like it on the road
at the time. My wife and I attend a lot of classic car rallies and the XK-E
still turns heads. It's not about what it costs, it's about what it looks
like and how it performs on the track. And its place in automotive history.

The Mark X's speedometer went to 140mph and I can confirm that when fully
restored it was capable of those speeds even though the driver (me) wasn't
(-: I only drove that fast *once* though because a 2 ton car really isn't a
sportscar and tends to leave the ground when going over dips in the road at
that speed.

It was a really beautiful care with a burled walnut dashboard, twin fuel
tanks, twin walnut fold-down picnic tables in the back, an instrument panel
that made it look more like a plane than a car and a remarkable quiet
exhaust system. In short it was a car unlike any American car I had ever
seen. So it wasn't really the cost or the status of the car, it was its
uniqueness that attracted me.

--
Bobby G.

"rbowman" wrote in message
stuff snipped

They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't
even
think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy it.'

Yep. A wealthy friend once bought a brand new XK-E V-12 in the year they
stopped making them. They are not so much cars as they are works of
automotive art. The thing ran so quietly that I didn't even realize it was
running while standing next to it until the wind shifted and I could feel
the heat of the engine.

At a recent car show my wife and I were looking at a collection of
Dusenbergs and Bugattis. There's a reason these cars command millions of
dollars at auctions. I can't think of a way to say it other than that there
are very pretty women and then there are movie stars. It's a question of
rarity. These cars are movie stars. Very few can match them for sheer
looks. So it goes way beyond status consciousness:

http://bugatticarblog.net/wp-content...s-atalante.jpg

That one sold for $4M and this one sold for $30M:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....ooding-opt.jpg

Of course, there are a few models where you need to make an appointment
with
your mechanic to borrow it when you want to drive it, but there are a few
more options in the garage.

That's why guys like Jay Leno have such huge garages and so many cars.
*One* of them is bound to be driveable at any particular moment in time.
I'd say the odds are a trillion to one that ALL of them would be driveable
at any one moment.

(-:

--
Bobby G.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
stuff snipped
Not sure how many other cars had it, but the Mark X had "anti-creep"
controls which applied pressure to the brakes if the car was at idle
even if
you took your foot off the brake. Until the engine sputtered or died,
that
is.

It's the opposite of 'anti-creep' but the Subaru has had a Hill Holding
Clutch system for years. As long as the nose of the car is higher than the
rear end, you can depress the clutch, remove your foot from the brake and
the brake will remain on until you release the clutch. It works even on
the
steepest hills.

The anti-creep would do that, too because I remember a fellow Jaguar club
member described how he stopped once on a hill because there was an accident
ahead, forgot to set the brake (or take the car out of drive!!!!) and
suddenly found his car chasing him down the hill. (Those three carbs were
notoriously bad at supporting a steady idle and they conked out often
sitting at a light.)

The question is: "What happened to the "hill holder" if the engine died?" I
remember my Dad and Uncle convincing me to disconnect the system. It was
the first time I had really understood the concept of "failing safe." The
anti-creep system certainly didn't operate under that principle. Obviously
designed as a gimmick by engineers who probably never conceived of the idea
that their car would stall often enough after aging for anti-creep to
actually come to mean "unguided missile."

--
Bobby G.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:31:42 +0200, nestork
wrote:


rbowman;3257881 Wrote:

They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+
K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't
even think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy
it.


No, that's not true.

Over the past 3 or 4 years I let it be known that I was thinking of
selling my apartment block. It's got copper water supply plumbing and
copper wiring, I've kept my allowable rent high by raising it by the
allowable guideline each year and it's in an excellent location here in
Winnipeg. That caught the attention of some of the wealthiest land
developers here. They wanted to buy the building and convert it into
condos or renovate it and rent out the units for $1000+ monthly rents.
In either case, they wanted to pour money into the building with the
prospect of getting their money back and more.

And, I found all of those people to be absolutely no different than
anyone else. They all worked for their money and they all wanted the
best value they can get for every dollar they spend. I did find them to
be more generous than most other people. When I said I wouldn't mind
staying on in the building as a caretaker, they were willing to gut all
three rooms with storage lockers in them to allow me to store all my
tools and personal effects that wouldn't fit in my apartment (which I
would live in rent-free).

I expect the only people that wouldn't care how much it costs to
maintain a car would be the children of the fabulously wealthy that
never had to work for their money. That is, the Paris Hiltons of the
world. But, even that doesn't cut it because wealthy people are also
generally both responsible and conservative and raise their kids to be
careful with their money. They know that times and fortunes can change
with fashion and technology and they want their kids to be able to
survive such changes on their own. One of the wealthiest Canadians, Mr.
Israel Asper had his children get degrees in law even though only one of
them works as a lawyer. Two others basically work as "philanthropists"
doling out money to charitable organizations and worthy causes. Izzy
Asper owned the Global Television Network here in Canada which was the
3rd largest television network in our country. He made his money from
advertising on his TV network.

The image of someone lighting a cigar using a burning $100 bill is a
myth. The really wealthy people are no different than you or I. They
all want the best value for their money that they can get regardless of
how much money they already have. They're just more generous when it
comes to helping other people.
At least SOME are. Then there are the real tightwads who still have
the first dollar they ever earned. They are rich because they never
buy anything without wringing the last cent out of the deal, and never
replace anything if there is another 10 minutes use left in it. They
buy their clothes at the Sally Anne and drive clunkers, and live in a
little war-time house with 10 cats. ( a war-time house is an upscale
version of a "redneck bungalow" - about the same size but it never had
wheels or a hitch)

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 11:01:52 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
They're only prohibitively expensive for you. Anybody that can drop 75+ K
for a XJ isn't worried about a $800 alternator. The social climbing
wannabees may be trying to prove something but the truly wealthy don't
even
think about it. Car looks nice, they like its features, they buy it.


My way of thinking is that if you can afford a car like that, you do not
keep it long enough for anything to wear out.

The dealers do not want people to drive around in the older expensive cars
either , so they make the repair parts expensive so they get a bad
reputation as to repair cost.

Every two years a multi millionare man I know of would trade in his wifes
car usually with less than 10,000 on it. He told his wife that it just
would not look right for someone of their social standing to drive around in
a car older than two years. The car was usually a big Mercury or other
pricey looking car.

Definition of a hasbeen - The guy who walks around in shiny dress
pants and drives a faded Caddy

Could also be the definition of a "wannabe"

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 11:56:21 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 9:44:29 PM UTC-4, nestork wrote:

But if you want to buy an alternator that fits your Jag from an auto
parts store, they generally can be had for a price similar to any
alternator and more like $100 to $200 than $800. I just looked.



That is probably for a rebuilt unit and you often get a core charge if you
turn in the old one for rebuilding. I bet most dealers just put in a new
one, or go to the parts store and get a rebuilt one and charge for a new
one.

No. most dealers install an OEM branded rebuilt. Almost impossible to
buy a brand new dealer alternator or starter after about the second
year of production. Most dealers will only install third party parts
if the OEM brand parts are not available, TERRIBLY overpriced, or
having reliability problems. There is always the odd idiot dealer
principal who will buy parts from the jobber to save a buck, not
realizing he is putting all the profit into someoe elses till when he
could be putting it in his own. The same guy who sends his used cars
down the street for a safety check because the corner garage only
cherges him $50 when his own service department charges him $55.
Meanwhile, his mechanics are sitting on their asses, drinking his
coffee while he pays to heat, light. and maintain an empty shop.

Does someone remember this is a home repair
group? I know I get off topic, and I expect
to be reminded, also.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Robert Green wrote:

The bloodiest jobs I ever undertook on cars was messing around with
exhaust systems, especially frozen clamps. I remember once (before I
learned to ALWAYS use heavy gloves) cutting myself up so that I needed six
stitches and a tetanus shot. I was pulling one section of exhaust pipe
and it suddenly gave way and by hand shot backwards and right onto to a
rusted out but still "oh so sharp" piece of pipe.

I hate exhaust work. Usually I'd just start wrapping fiberglas tape around
them and slather on the polyester resin. Except for a few compounds, epoxy
resin melts when it gets hot. Don't ask me how I know....

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:18:23 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

Robert Green wrote:

The bloodiest jobs I ever undertook on cars was messing around with
exhaust systems, especially frozen clamps. I remember once (before I
learned to ALWAYS use heavy gloves) cutting myself up so that I needed six
stitches and a tetanus shot. I was pulling one section of exhaust pipe
and it suddenly gave way and by hand shot backwards and right onto to a
rusted out but still "oh so sharp" piece of pipe.

I hate exhaust work. Usually I'd just start wrapping fiberglas tape around
them and slather on the polyester resin. Except for a few compounds, epoxy
resin melts when it gets hot. Don't ask me how I know....


I just cut the entire old system off in chunks and put on new
stainless steel. That way I only need to do it ONCE.I did enough
patching/repairing in my years as a professional mechanic -made many a
brass exhaust system out of rust and brazing rods.
At least today's exhaust systems last more than 2 years. The one on my
almost 19 year old truck is original with 324000km on it and still
solid - in the ontario rust belt.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 07:39:40 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 04:46:59 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote in


My only point is that we have no way of knowing if the guy behind the wheel
or the guy sitting in the lawn or the guy out on the lake has any money
left after buying those items.

That's why people who really can't afford an item buy it. They are
hoping people will think that they actually can afford it. They need
that to feel good about themselves.

It's a basis of the conspicuous consumption ethic.

Yes, that's why I drive a 91 Accord. It's been an amazing car. Looks
pretty bad by now but I could not care less.

wrote in message
wrote:
rbowman;3257881 Wrote:

stuff snipped

The image of someone lighting a cigar using a burning $100 bill is a
myth. The really wealthy people are no different than you or I.

I submit that they are. They've got a lot more money and worry a lot less
about running out or suffering from a bankrupting catastrophic illness.

They all want the best value for their money

That's making some serious assumptions about an awfully large group of
people of very varied backgrounds. I don't think it's a sustainable
assertion.

that they can get regardless of how much money they already have.
They're just more generous when it comes to helping other people.

At least SOME are.

Amen. They are as different as people who don't have vast wealth.

Then there are the real tightwads who still have
the first dollar they ever earned. They are rich because they never
buy anything without wringing the last cent out of the deal, and never
replace anything if there is another 10 minutes use left in it. They
buy their clothes at the Sally Anne and drive clunkers, and live in a
little war-time house with 10 cats. ( a war-time house is an upscale
version of a "redneck bungalow" - about the same size but it never had
wheels or a hitch)

When I worked the "embassy beat" in DC I met a lot of very wealthy people
and they're all over the map. Some display their wealth ostentatiously and
others don't even tip at restaurants. And there's everything in between
those two extremes.

Though I never met him, Picasso was a pro at cheapskating because he paid
everything by check knowing that few people would cash them but would save
them instead because they would eventually become valuable collector's
items.

--
Bobby G.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
stuff snipped

I hate exhaust work. Usually I'd just start wrapping fiberglas tape around
them and slather on the polyester resin. Except for a few compounds,
epoxy
resin melts when it gets hot. Don't ask me how I know....

What I can't believe now is how determined I was when I first started out in
my teens to remove and save all the parts as if I were working for CSI.
Then I found out what cut off wheels were for . . .

I eventually learned that any piece of the exhaust that looked good enough
to re-use was really working a giant con and was usually rusted to paper
thin metal inside where you couldn't yet see it. Until it blew out from
being the weakest link in an otherwise new chain of exhaust parts.

The Mark X had resonators, silencers, mufflers and something else I've
forgotten about that all needed replacing to pass inspection. Way, way too
much stuff and connector pipes and clamps and hangers. JC Whitney to the
rescue. (-:

Nowadays you can probably get parts from England as easily as from the US
but back then finding parts for foreign cars was a serious quest.

All of which makes me glad I got that out of my system and drive reliable
cars now. Not as tolerant of adventure on the highway anymore, I guess.
But I did meet a lot of nice people breaking down here and there. That was
long before cell phones when you had to knock on someone's door and ask if
you could call AAA.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:

The Mark X had resonators, silencers, mufflers and something else I've
forgotten about that all needed replacing to pass inspection. Way, way
too much stuff and connector pipes and clamps and hangers. JC Whitney to
the rescue. (-:

I had a Lincoln that was about the same. Nature abhors a vacuum and the
Lincoln engineers filled any available space with some sort of exhaust
plumbing. I was going to do it right but a trip to the parts store was a jaw
dropping experience.

Nice car but most they were big on vacuum controls and that turned into the
mightmare on elm street as the car got older, pus all the electric stuff
that more or less worked.

Nowadays you can probably get parts from England as easily as from the US
but back then finding parts for foreign cars was a serious quest.

Yeah, especially those damn Whitworth fasteners. I once did a rebuild on an
Alfa Romeo Gulietta and if you think the Brits were bad. Only car I ever
worked on that had wet sleeves. No oversized pistons; you replaced them all
as a matched set. Another jaw dropper.

What's depressing is all those cool, fast sportscars from the '50s and '60s
would have their asses whipped by a generic Honda roght off the showroom
floor.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 08:35:42 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

Robert Green wrote:

The Mark X had resonators, silencers, mufflers and something else I've
forgotten about that all needed replacing to pass inspection. Way, way
too much stuff and connector pipes and clamps and hangers. JC Whitney to
the rescue. (-:

I had a Lincoln that was about the same. Nature abhors a vacuum and the
Lincoln engineers filled any available space with some sort of exhaust
plumbing. I was going to do it right but a trip to the parts store was a jaw
dropping experience.

Nice car but most they were big on vacuum controls and that turned into the
mightmare on elm street as the car got older, pus all the electric stuff
that more or less worked.

Nowadays you can probably get parts from England as easily as from the US
but back then finding parts for foreign cars was a serious quest.

Yeah, especially those damn Whitworth fasteners. I once did a rebuild on an
Alfa Romeo Gulietta and if you think the Brits were bad. Only car I ever
worked on that had wet sleeves. No oversized pistons; you replaced them all
as a matched set. Another jaw dropper.

What's depressing is all those cool, fast sportscars from the '50s and '60s
would have their asses whipped by a generic Honda roght off the showroom
floor.
Back in the late seventies we rallyed a Renault R12. 1300cc wet
sleave motor. Complete rebuild kit including gaskets, bearings, seals,
pistons and sleaves was under $100.
Ir was cheaper than having a mini block bored and fitting oversized
pistons by over 20% - and included all new bearings and seals!!!

wrote:

Back in the late seventies we rallyed a Renault R12. 1300cc wet
sleave motor. Complete rebuild kit including gaskets, bearings, seals,
pistons and sleaves was under $100.
Ir was cheaper than having a mini block bored and fitting oversized
pistons by over 20% - and included all new bearings and seals!!!

Alfas ran more like $100 a cylinder... Other than a rental Alliance, I
never had anything to do with French cars. I looked at a Citroen DS once but
the nagging voice in my head kept saying "What could possibly go wrong with
this engineering marvel?" I wouldn't mind having a Traction Avant, though.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:05:39 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

wrote:

Back in the late seventies we rallyed a Renault R12. 1300cc wet
sleave motor. Complete rebuild kit including gaskets, bearings, seals,
pistons and sleaves was under $100.
Ir was cheaper than having a mini block bored and fitting oversized
pistons by over 20% - and included all new bearings and seals!!!

Alfas ran more like $100 a cylinder... Other than a rental Alliance, I
never had anything to do with French cars. I looked at a Citroen DS once but
the nagging voice in my head kept saying "What could possibly go wrong with
this engineering marvel?" I wouldn't mind having a Traction Avant, though.
VERY classy looking vehicles. - and technical marvels underneath as
well.

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Mon, 7 Jul 2014 15:23:52 +0200, nestork
wrote:


I thought the heater core was normally accessed through the firewall?
Depends on the car. MOST are now accessed from under the dash. Worst
one I experienced was on , IIRC, an XJC Jag. Book time was well over
12 hours. In the instructions, the first line was "remove parcel shelf
from behind rear seat". Then you removed trim, piece at a time as the
screws were exposed untill you got to the dash board, which took a few
hours to dissassemble and remove before you could even SEE the heater
box. Then after dissassembling the heater and replacing the core
(might have been AC condenser - cannot remember) the long and tedious
lob af reassembling the dash, and then re-installing all the trim
began. The mechanic who was working on it (a british car expert who
worked for me for a while) managed to pull the job off in about 8
hours - it wasn't his first time!!!!

You got me when you said Jag. Disassemble the suspension to replace the
Lucas starter.

--
Tekkie