This is a question for contractors who do painting.
I do a combination of carpentry, renovation, cabinetwork,
etc. and also do a fair amount of painting. Usually it's
picky work for people who want a nice job. For years
I used Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo on interior trim.
Anyone who's used it knows that it dried like glass,
with a beautiful finish. But in the past several years
there have been changes. BM has been bought by
Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway gang, and EPA
regulations have forced the reformulation of paints.

Satin Impervo original formula was product #235.
BM then came out with C235, which was downgraded
and doesn't dry as smoothly. Then they came out
with Z235, which is similar to exterior stain. The brush
strokes don't settle and the sheen is poor. I've also had
trouble with it just falling off of cast iron radiators.
Meanwhile, BM has also been coming out with their
"waterborne" line of water-base paints, which cover
well but go on too thin to produce a consistent sheen.

In addition to the BM product changes, the company
has been very aggressive about pushing their products
into paint stores. Store owners have told me that BM
doesn't allow them to have a BM account if they sell
paint from competing companies. The result is that nearly
every paint store I know of sells Benjamin Moore and
little else. For some reason BM puts up with California,
but other brands seem to be disappearing. (One store
told me that BM forced them to discontiue Cabots stains.
Another store told me they had to keep the Cabot's in
the back.)

I can't continue to use BM paint. It just isn't good
enough anymore. I've been switching to Pratt and Lambert,
especially for interior oil. I like their Red Seal product. But
I also like their other products that I've tried. Unfortunately,
it's a long trip for me (even in a big city) to get PL paint.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I wanted to describe
my experience to see how it compares to others' experience.
I'd be interested to hear any thoughts about paint brand
experiences in high-end residential work, especially where
satin oil has been used for interior trim.

Mayayana:

I've been using Pratt & Lambert's "Accolade" line of paints in my apartment block for about 15 to 20 years now, and I like their products. Pratt & Lambert is now owned by Sherwin Williams, but they're being operated as a separate company.

Finding a replacement for satin gloss oil based paints that have been used on interior trim is going to be tough. You're going to have difficulty finding anything except an oil that will stick well to it. However, alkyd based primer are not being taken off the market, at least not here in Canada, anyway, so the option of painting over the trim with a primer and then switching to a latex remains an undesireable option.

If you want a hard durable finish like oils provide, I would become familiar with the Comex group. Comex is a coatings manufacturing company headquartered in Mexico that has been developing environmentally friendly industrial coatings for years. That research is now paying off for them as coatings thinned with mineral spirits are being taken off the market because of the low level ozone smog they create. So, Comex was well positioned to replace the alkyd paint market with their water based industrial coatings.

Unfortunately, that expertise in environmentally friendly industrial coatings also made them attractive to major US paint companies wanting to gain that technical knowledge, so in 2013 Comex was sold to Sherwin Williams who appears to be continuing to operate Comex's paint store chains.

In my own experience, Comex's water based "paints" are not quite as hard and durable as the alkyd and alkyd based polyurethanes I've used, but they are certainly more durable than any of the latex Porch and Floor "enamels" I've used from Behr.

Also Comex doesn't sell paints directly. Instead, they sell their paints through a series of retail paint store chains. If you live in Canada, Comex paints are sold at "General Paint" stores. In the USA, Kwal Paints, Colorwheel Paint, Frazee Paints and Parker Paints all retail Comex products.

Two Comex paints you might want to become familiar with are Envirogard and Monamel.

Envirogard is a water based paint that uses an acrylic resins that has a super high cross linking density. So, it paints on like an ordinary latex paint, but it crosslinks as it cures so densely that it becomes as hard and durable as an interior alkyd paint.

Monamel is even harder and more durable than Envirogard. Monamel is an alkyd resin that is only partially covered with acrylic plastic molecules. The acrylic molecules affinity for water keeps the resins suspending in water just like a latex paint, but as the water evaporates out of the paint film, the alkyd resin cores react with the oxygen in the air to crosslink just like a drying oil, alkyd or urethane modified alkyd paint or varnish. My understanding is that Monamel paint also yellows in dim lighting conditions like oil and alkyd coatings do.

I can't say anything about how well these paints spread and self level with a brush as all the painting I've done with them has been with the lower gloss paints applied with rollers. Also, I don't know how well they will stick to old satin oil based paints. You'd have to test them to see. But, these two paints; Envirogard and Monamel are the hardest drying most durable water wash-up paints I've ever used. So they're the closest thing you're likely going to get to replace oil based paints that won't also be taken off the market due to progressively more stringent environmental laws.

"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
This is a question for contractors who do painting.
Sorry to be so long-winded,

You were so winded, you forgot to ask a question!

On 3/21/2014 12:49 PM, Jerry wrote:
"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
This is a question for contractors who do painting.
Sorry to be so long-winded,

You were so winded, you forgot to ask a question!




My brief time with a contractor, he used as cheap a paint as he could
find

| You were so winded, you forgot to ask a question!
|

Right at the end:

"I'd be interested to hear any thoughts about paint brand
experiences in high-end residential work, especially where
satin oil has been used for interior trim."

I'm looking for opinions, from people who do painting
professionally, about what they think is best.

That often happens with contractors who offer a 1 year guarantee. Almost any paint will stay on for 12 months.
Homeowners, on the other hand tend to buy the best they can afford so as to not have to do the same work over again in only a few years time.

I'm always had good results with Pratt & Lambert "Accolade" paints.

Have you checkec Consumers Reports? They do a fairly thorough job of evaluating all types of paints.

wrote in message
...
| Have you checkec Consumers Reports? They do a fairly thorough job of
evaluating all types of paints.
|

I haven't read it recently, but someone told
me they rated Behr tops. So... so much for
CS.

I generally don't put much stock in their analyses
of things, anyway. They usually end up with a complex
chart of mixed reviews: A product was slightly better
than average in this category, slightly below in that
category. Coming up with true ratings out of that
seems dubious to me.

With paint, the main issues are durability, color
retention and especially the surface of the finish (for
interior trim paint). CR makes up a lot of irrelevant
categories in an attempt to be "objective". Things like
"ease of use" or "ease of cleanup" or "brushability" that
really don't mean much but are easier to measure
than "elegance of luster".
Some years ago, back when Benjamin Moore had
the best interior oil paint around, CR rated them low
middle.

The other problem with CR is that they haven't rated
oil paint for years -- if they ever did. What I'm especially
concerned with is interior oil trim paint. Water base paint
quality is not so much of an issue. It's mostly for walls.
For trim any decent brand is generally serviceable, but
inferior in terms of surface finish when dry.
"Consumers" don't generally use oil paint and don't
generally care very much about ratings except for exterior
paint. So CR rates exterior water-base paints. I can't
remember the last time I used exterior latex/acrylic paint.

Consumer Reports rates Behr paints as "Best Buys", which means they give you better value for your dollar.

If I had only $18 to buy a gallon of paint, I would buy Behr too.

But I would object to having to use $18 paint on any painting project I do.

I've used both Behr Satin "Enamel" and Pratt & Lambert Accolade Satin, and there is no comparison. The P&L paint virtually eliminates my having to spread drop cloths because there is virtually no spatter. Also, it doesn't soften up nearly as much when it gets wet, and that makes it stand up better when removing marks from it.

I disagree with Mayayana on colour retention.

It's the pigments in a paint that give it it's colour, and certain pigments retain their colour when exposed to UV light far better than others. For example, the reason why the planet Mars is red is because of all the iron oxide rich rocks at it's surface. We use exactly that same iron oxide as the pigment "Red Oxide" in tinting paints. By using inorganic pigments like yellow oxide, red oxide, brown oxide, raw umber, titanium white and black, you can formulate colours that don't fade whatsoever from exposure to the Sun. Mars is just as red as the rust on my car, and it will be for another 5 billion years of direct exposure to the Sun. So, if you take the rust on my car, pulverize it into a fine powder and use that powder to tint your paint a reddish brown colour, you'll have a paint that, barring other factors, will retain it's colour perfectly for 5 billion years.

Also, my experience with interior paints is that walls will gradually get dirty due to dust in the air settling on those walls. If there's a smoker in the house, you'll see lines form over the studs on exterior walls, and even black spots form over the drywall nails or screws in those studs. This is the result of microscopic particles of soot settling on the coldest portions of the wall, and will happen with any paint. If you have to repair damage to a wall like that, you'll never get the paint to match because the old paint is dirty whereas the new paint isn't.

So, colour retention isn't a good indication of paint quality because the ability of the paint to retain it's colour is dependant on many factors that paint quality plays no part in.

| I've used both Behr Satin "Enamel" and Pratt & Lambert Accolade Satin,
| and there is no comparison.

That's good to know, though Accolade is acrylic,
which doesnt help me in finding a good satin oil paint.
I'm especially interested in knowing peoples' experience
with interior oil trim paints since the EPA regulations
took effect and since Benjamin Moore's formula changes.

| I disagree with Mayayana on colour retention.
|
| It's the pigments in a paint that give it it's colour, and certain
| pigments retain their colour when exposed to UV light far better than
| others.

I wouldn't argue with that. Though there have been
cases of poor color retention. As I recall, Olympic was
sued at one point for unusual color fading with their stains.

But my reason for listing that was just to list the aspects
of a paint that might be really relevant in choosing a
paint, as opposed to the list that CR is likely to test for.
I don't consider "ease of cleanup" to be one of those
important details.
And of course I wouldn't really think of color retention
being an interior paint issue in general.

On 3/22/2014 7:59 AM, Mayayana wrote:
wrote in message
...
| Have you checkec Consumers Reports? They do a fairly thorough job of
evaluating all types of paints.
|

I haven't read it recently, but someone told
me they rated Behr tops. So... so much for
CS.
....

Well, I generally don't much agree w/ CS, either, but I wouldn't write
Behr off because of them.

I get the feeling your comment is mostly based on the relationship w/ HD
rather than anything else, but Behr was a well-established west-coast
manufacturer long before they got the national exposure.

Like other manufacturers, they manufacturer grades from the low-end to
high and generally you tend to "get what you pay for"....

....

The other problem with CR is that they haven't rated
oil paint for years -- if they ever did. What I'm especially
concerned with is interior oil trim paint. Water base paint
quality is not so much of an issue. It's mostly for walls.
For trim any decent brand is generally serviceable, but
inferior in terms of surface finish when dry.
....

I've not used any interior oil-based wall paint in years so no real
input on that part, per se.

I'm wondering why you're so hung over oil for that purpose, specifically???

I used some 80 gal of Behr oil exterior on the barn and was pleased and
remain so 7-yr or so later. It was the premium level and other than HD
giving some discount based on the volume, no cheaper than S-W or the
other names at the time.

For the last interior oil I used, I was very pleased with a Glidden
product, also at least the next-to if not the top-level in their line.
Its brushability and flowout was quite enjoyable, actually. But again,
it wasn't the walls; can't see any need/advantage over a good quality
latex enamel for that purpose.

--

| I've not used any interior oil-based wall paint in years so no real
| input on that part, per se.
|
| I'm wondering why you're so hung over oil for that purpose,
specifically???
|

I wasn't talking about wall paint. I was talking specifically
about oil-base trim paint. People seem to be answering about
just about everything else.
I don't see any reason for oil paint on walls, either. On trim
it settles better, provides a more elegant finish (where acrylic
tends to look "rubberry") and is tougher. I just haven't found
a water-base satin paint that can provide a finish on trim that
looks like oil.

| I used some 80 gal of Behr oil exterior on the barn and was pleased and
| remain so 7-yr or so later. It was the premium level and other than HD
| giving some discount based on the volume, no cheaper than S-W or the
| other names at the time.

I guess you mean Behr oil-base solid exterior stain? I didn't
know they had oil-base products. It's interesting because
exterior solid oil stain has become another problem product. At
this point I use Cabot's but they seem to keep changing
the product, while BM discontinued it altogether.

I've only tried Behr a couple of times and found it very thin.
I don't have anything against HD, but wouldn't expect them
to carry the best products, so I'm not inclined to spend time
testing Behr paint for use on high-end work.
But, again, since Behr doesn't make satin oil paint for
interior, it's a moot question.

|
| For the last interior oil I used, I was very pleased with a Glidden
| product, also at least the next-to if not the top-level in their line.
| Its brushability and flowout was quite enjoyable, actually.

Interesting. I used their exterior oil stain once, years ago.
I didn't know they had interior oil paint. I used their stain only
because a customer insisted on it. The original contractor
had used it. I tried to talk them into BM at the time, but
they were insistent. As it turned out, the price difference
was $10 for Glidden and $27 for BM. But the Glidden was odd.
It went on thick but immediately "melted" into thin foam,
providing poor coverage. As it turned out the store had
spec sheets for their stain. According to their own specs,
their oil-base stain was 30% water! The product was thinned
by 1/3 with emulsifiers added. No wonder it was so thin.

On 3/21/2014 9:16 PM, nestork wrote:

'Frank[_17_ Wrote:
;3213261']
My brief time with a contractor, he used as cheap a paint as he could
find

That often happens with contractors who offer a 1 year guarantee.
Almost any paint will stay on for 12 months.
Homeowners, on the other hand tend to buy the best they can afford so as
to not have to do the same work over again in only a few years time.

I'm always had good results with Pratt & Lambert "Accolade" paints.





It was a general contractor building a house next door to me when I was
a kid and he hired me to paint. I remember him changing the color of
one room because it took more than one coat.

Mayayana:

You can't fight the EPA. Alkyd paints are going the way of the dinosaur because the mineral spirits used to thin them cause low level ozone pollution in the air. All the research money is going into developing water based coatings that can match the durability and hardness of oil based paints.

If you have a General Paint, Kwal Paint, Frazee Paint, Colorwheel Paint or Parker Paint store in your area, ask anyone at the sales counter to shake up a quart of Monamel satin for you. Use a Q-tip to paint some of that Monamel onto a paint mixing stick and see how it spreads and what it looks like when it's dry.

Monamel is a water wash-up paint, but it forms a film that's nearly as hard and durable as an alkyd paint and that's what you need on door frames near light switches where dirt always collects.

At least it'll be a start in finding a paint to replace the BM satin Impervo you've been using.

Envirogard is another water washable paint that's worth looking at. Different chemistry, but it still forms a film that's much more durable than conventional latex paints.

| If you have a General Paint, Kwal Paint, Frazee Paint, Colorwheel
| Paint or Parker Paint store in your area, ask anyone at the sales
| counter to shake up a quart of Monamel satin for you. Use a Q-tip to
| paint some of that Monamel onto a paint mixing stick and see how it
| spreads and what it looks like when it's dry.
|
| Monamel is a water wash-up paint, but it forms a film that's nearly
| as hard and durable as an alkyd paint and that's what you need on door
| frames near light switches where dirt always collects.
|

Thanks. I can't seem to find anything like that where I am.
(Boston.)
I've never heard of those paint store names. BM actually
makes a waterborne alkyd paint called Advance. I know
a cabinetmaker who uses it for spraying, and it goes on very
smooth. Unfortunately, it's extremely thin. If the surface is
not perfect then every little imperfection will show through.
Perhaps it would be worth trying another brand, though.
I guess it's a question of whether the thinness is a BM
problem or a limitation of that type of paint.

Also, there's a problem cleaning brushes with that kind of
paint. They don't entirely clean with water and thinner is
not recommended. When I did a job using Advance I ended
up throwing out the brush at the end. I left it soaking in
water but it got a bit stiffer each day.

On 3/22/2014 12:02 PM, Mayayana wrote:
....


| I used some 80 gal of Behr oil exterior on the barn and was pleased and
| remain so 7-yr or so later. It was the premium level and other than HD
| giving some discount based on the volume, no cheaper than S-W or the
| other names at the time.

I guess you mean Behr oil-base solid exterior stain? ...

No exterior oil-based paint. Now, this was a few years ago, given the
EPA and CA since then, perhaps they have discontinued it...

Hmmm....looks like they have entirely dropped any oil-based paints. Bummer.

I've only tried Behr a couple of times and found it very thin.
I don't have anything against HD, but wouldn't expect them
to carry the best products, ...

Well, at the time HD carried the full Behr line from low to best.


|
| For the last interior oil I used, I was very pleased with a Glidden
| product, also at least the next-to if not the top-level in their line.
| Its brushability and flowout was quite enjoyable, actually.

Interesting. I used their exterior oil stain once, years ago.
I didn't know they had interior oil paint. ...

Again, times are changing and it's possible they've been forced out of
the market as well.

I expect you may as well just accept that the EPA has mandated oil
paints out of existence by the VOC limitations they've placed on them.
Even if you find one this month it'll be unlikely to be around next year
just like the ones I've used in the past and have a few cans of still
around aren't made any longer, either.

It's a shame and probably has no real impact on anything real for which
it's supposed to being done, but that's the way it is...

--

I expect that the paint your cabinet maker is using is thinned especially for spraying. Anyone who sprays coatings on knows they have to be very thin to be sprayed well. I expect that if you bought a gallon of the same paint meant for application with a brush or roller it would be completely different.

There's no problem cleaning brushes.
There's a problem not knowing how to treat good paint brushes.

What you do is wet your brush with water TO BEGIN WITH. Then shake out the excess water and start to paint. Occasionally wet the "heel" of the brush (where all the fibers are held tightly together by the metal ferrule of the brush) with an eye dropper to keep it wet.

You see, paint will make it's way up into the heel of the brush as you paint. It dries up there and that's what makes for "hard" brushes. The way to prevent that is to understand what's happening and prevent it. By dipping the brush in water first, capillary pressure draws water up into the heel of the brush so that any paint that gets up there is thinned and won't dry out. Add a drop of water or two every now an then to ensure that the heel of the brush is full of water.

Then, not only will the brush clean up FASTER, it'll clean up more completely because there won't be any residual partially dried paint left behind in the heel of the brush when you're cleaning.

Try this Advance paint, but buy an eye dropper at any drug store for $2, and see if it rocks your world.

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:45:34 PM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
This is a question for contractors who do painting.

I do a combination of carpentry, renovation, cabinetwork,

etc. and also do a fair amount of painting. Usually it's

picky work for people who want a nice job. For years

I used Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo on interior trim.

Anyone who's used it knows that it dried like glass,

with a beautiful finish. But in the past several years

there have been changes. BM has been bought by

Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway gang, and EPA

regulations have forced the reformulation of paints.



Satin Impervo original formula was product #235.

BM then came out with C235, which was downgraded

and doesn't dry as smoothly. Then they came out

with Z235, which is similar to exterior stain. The brush

strokes don't settle and the sheen is poor. I've also had

trouble with it just falling off of cast iron radiators.

Meanwhile, BM has also been coming out with their

"waterborne" line of water-base paints, which cover

well but go on too thin to produce a consistent sheen.



In addition to the BM product changes, the company

has been very aggressive about pushing their products

into paint stores. Store owners have told me that BM

doesn't allow them to have a BM account if they sell

paint from competing companies. The result is that nearly

every paint store I know of sells Benjamin Moore and

little else. For some reason BM puts up with California,

but other brands seem to be disappearing. (One store

told me that BM forced them to discontiue Cabots stains.

Another store told me they had to keep the Cabot's in

the back.)



I can't continue to use BM paint. It just isn't good

enough anymore. I've been switching to Pratt and Lambert,

especially for interior oil. I like their Red Seal product. But

I also like their other products that I've tried. Unfortunately,

it's a long trip for me (even in a big city) to get PL paint.



Sorry to be so long-winded, but I wanted to describe

my experience to see how it compares to others' experience.

I'd be interested to hear any thoughts about paint brand

experiences in high-end residential work, especially where

satin oil has been used for interior trim.

I have used Promar 200 from Sherwinn Williams for many years.

Great coverage, most cases take only one coat.

Andy

| I have used Promar 200 from Sherwinn Williams for many years.
|
| Great coverage, most cases take only one coat.
|

Thanks. I do have SW stores near me. I guess
I should give them a try. I also came across a
chat site, something like contractortalk.com,
where SW seemed to be popular.

On 3/23/2014 7:58 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I have used Promar 200 from Sherwinn Williams for many years.
|
| Great coverage, most cases take only one coat.
|

Thanks. I do have SW stores near me. I guess
I should give them a try. I also came across a
chat site, something like contractortalk.com,
where SW seemed to be popular.

BTW, in a piece of news you'll be bound to love ( ), W-Mart-branded
paints were S-W at the time of the last house-painting here (4-5 yr
ago). This is a small market locale so one S-W store and the other
chain outlets for local suppliers so was a cheaper alternative for what
appeared in use to be same product.

--

| BTW, in a piece of news you'll be bound to love ( ), W-Mart-branded
| paints were S-W at the time of the last house-painting here (4-5 yr
| ago). This is a small market locale so one S-W store and the other
| chain outlets for local suppliers so was a cheaper alternative for what
| appeared in use to be same product.
|

That's an interesting issue. I remember Consmuer Reports,
years ago, recommending something like J.C. Penney as the
top paint. I don't know how one can tell whether the Walmart
paint is the same as branded SW or not. I avoid those store
brands for that reason. That's always been an issue with
Sears. If you buy their sewing machine was it made by Singer
or by Ace and Acme? The answer might even differ from one
batch to the next. They're not making any promises about that.

Another good example is Trader Joes.
Their products could come from good companies, but
it's likely they don't. Companies want to maintain their own
reputation. Even if a good company is supplying TJ brand,
it's likely they'd send TJ the bottom-of-the-barrel stock,
since their name is not on it.

There was an example of that last year, due to a
salmonella outbreak in peanut butter. The recall included
TJ's peanut butter, as well as products from discount
product companies like Little Debbie. It turned out it
was all coming from a wholesaler in the Midwest, named
"Big Nut" I'm guessing that the hipsters who shop at
TJs don't usually think about that kind of thing, but it's
really common sense: TJs focuses on low price and their
suppliers remain anonymous. That's a formula for poor
product quality. It's silly to expect a store brand sold
at a low price to be high quality.

On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:42:18 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/22/2014 7:59 AM, Mayayana wrote:
wrote in message
...
| Have you checkec Consumers Reports? They do a fairly thorough job of
evaluating all types of paints.
|

I haven't read it recently, but someone told
me they rated Behr tops. So... so much for
CS.
...

Well, I generally don't much agree w/ CS, either, but I wouldn't write
Behr off because of them.

I get the feeling your comment is mostly based on the relationship w/ HD
rather than anything else, but Behr was a well-established west-coast
manufacturer long before they got the national exposure.

Like other manufacturers, they manufacturer grades from the low-end to
high and generally you tend to "get what you pay for"....

...

The other problem with CR is that they haven't rated
oil paint for years -- if they ever did. What I'm especially
concerned with is interior oil trim paint. Water base paint
quality is not so much of an issue. It's mostly for walls.
For trim any decent brand is generally serviceable, but
inferior in terms of surface finish when dry.
...

I've not used any interior oil-based wall paint in years so no real
input on that part, per se.

I'm wondering why you're so hung over oil for that purpose, specifically???

I used some 80 gal of Behr oil exterior on the barn and was pleased and
remain so 7-yr or so later. It was the premium level and other than HD
giving some discount based on the volume, no cheaper than S-W or the
other names at the time.

For the last interior oil I used, I was very pleased with a Glidden
product, also at least the next-to if not the top-level in their line.
Its brushability and flowout was quite enjoyable, actually. But again,
it wasn't the walls; can't see any need/advantage over a good quality
latex enamel for that purpose.
"oil based" interior trim paint is virtually unavailable today. Even
oil based primer or ceiling paint o paint "popcorn" textured ceilings
is very hard to get. After patching some popped drywall nails, we had
a terrible time getting a coat of primer or paint on without softening
and blistering the drywall compound, untill I grabbed a can of
off-white automotive touchup spray I had sitting around. A light coat
of that to seal the compound from the water in the paint, and no more
problems.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 10:12:43 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| BTW, in a piece of news you'll be bound to love ( ), W-Mart-branded
| paints were S-W at the time of the last house-painting here (4-5 yr
| ago). This is a small market locale so one S-W store and the other
| chain outlets for local suppliers so was a cheaper alternative for what
| appeared in use to be same product.
|

That's an interesting issue. I remember Consmuer Reports,
years ago, recommending something like J.C. Penney as the
top paint. I don't know how one can tell whether the Walmart
paint is the same as branded SW or not. I avoid those store
brands for that reason. That's always been an issue with
Sears. If you buy their sewing machine was it made by Singer
or by Ace and Acme? The answer might even differ from one
batch to the next. They're not making any promises about that.

Another good example is Trader Joes.
Their products could come from good companies, but
it's likely they don't. Companies want to maintain their own
reputation. Even if a good company is supplying TJ brand,
it's likely they'd send TJ the bottom-of-the-barrel stock,
since their name is not on it.

There was an example of that last year, due to a
salmonella outbreak in peanut butter. The recall included
TJ's peanut butter, as well as products from discount
product companies like Little Debbie. It turned out it
was all coming from a wholesaler in the Midwest, named
"Big Nut" I'm guessing that the hipsters who shop at
TJs don't usually think about that kind of thing, but it's
really common sense: TJs focuses on low price and their
suppliers remain anonymous. That's a formula for poor
product quality. It's silly to expect a store brand sold
at a low price to be high quality.

Not necessarilly. Often the cost of the advertizing program excedes
the cost of the product. The store brands do not have tha national
advertizing expense, so can be sold at a considerable discount.

On 3/23/2014 9:12 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| BTW, in a piece of news you'll be bound to love ( ), W-Mart-branded
| paints were S-W at the time of the last house-painting here (4-5 yr
| ago). This is a small market locale so one S-W store and the other
| chain outlets for local suppliers so was a cheaper alternative for what
| appeared in use to be same product.
|

That's an interesting issue. I remember Consmuer Reports,
years ago, recommending something like J.C. Penney as the
top paint. I don't know how one can tell whether the Walmart
paint is the same as branded SW or not. I avoid those store
brands for that reason. That's always been an issue with
Sears. If you buy their sewing machine was it made by Singer
or by Ace and Acme? The answer might even differ from one
batch to the next. They're not making any promises about that.
....

Well, actually, on Sears' products the manufacturer is in the product code.

Again at the time, the manufacturer was also in the product code at W-M,
too (and I'm sure it still is, altho it isn't bandied about that much).
The difficulty isn't so much finding out at any one point in time, the
problem is, just like you're having w/ whichever manufacturer it is that
you started out this thread with that they can change suppliers after a
period of time just as the manufacturer can change their product line
either to meet external mandates such as EPA VOC limits or changing
consumer trends or competition. This doesn't happen on an every day
basis, however, they have longer term marketing agreements in place as
the volumes they need and that they carry the same products in all
stores at the same times means there's no way they can just buy
"spot-market" kinds of infill product.

On the paint, I noticed after a year or so when wanted some touch up to
match interior after we installed the new HVAC system that Glidden had
completely revamped their color scheme/charts naming systems and tint
bases. I suspect that was in response to some of the others also doing
similar as I then happened to notice that the same thing had happened at
the other locations in town.

--