I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't
supply quite enough watts for some uses.

One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel
with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous
power.

But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live
with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is
piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store
gasoline.

The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 02/10/2014 09:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't
supply quite enough watts for some uses.

One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel
with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous
power.

But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live
with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is
piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store
gasoline.

The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?




To answer your question: No, to the flex hose.

Your best bet it to simply limit your usage during the periods where a
generator is required.

If you use two generators you will either have to synchronize them which
will require complicated and expensive hardware...or completely separate
the circuits.


If you really need more power a 4000 watt generator does not cost much
more than a 2000 watt unit, just get a new one and sell your old one.

On 2/10/2014 10:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't
supply quite enough watts for some uses.

One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel
with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous
power.

But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live
with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is
piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store
gasoline.

The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?

I'd check the manual about gas hookups. Gasoline and
natural gas are different systems.

As to two gennies, some can be put in parallel, but again
to check the manual.

Philo had a couple good idea. During power cuts I go
into energy saver mode, and wait it out. What extra power
is so badly needed that it can't wait a few hours?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Monday, February 10, 2014 10:34:03 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't

supply quite enough watts for some uses.



One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel

with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous

power.



But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live

with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is

piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store

gasoline.



The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere

in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two

gennies?

--

Pete Cresswell

I think it's the perfect solution for using a portable natural
gas generator. No different than using a gas grill and people have
outdoor gas quick-connect type settups for those. As long as
the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong
with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug
a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.

On the generator side, taking a gas generator and converting
it to nat gas or propane, will result in a generator/appliance,
that is not listed by the appropriate agencies, etc. But
certainly a lot of companies are selling the conversion kits
and a lot of people are doing it. I see tri-fuel conversion
kits, that allow you to switch back and forth or permanent ones.
Given that it's going to be
outside, in an open area, I don't see a lot of risk in it, but
you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,
you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've
seen cost a lot more than converting one.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:51:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 10, 2014 10:34:03 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't



supply quite enough watts for some uses.







One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel



with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous



power.







But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live



with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is



piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store



gasoline.







The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere



in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two



gennies?



--



Pete Cresswell



I think it's the perfect solution for using a portable natural

gas generator. No different than using a gas grill and people have

outdoor gas quick-connect type settups for those. As long as

the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong

with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug

a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.



On the generator side, taking a gas generator and converting

it to nat gas or propane, will result in a generator/appliance,

that is not listed by the appropriate agencies, etc. But

certainly a lot of companies are selling the conversion kits

and a lot of people are doing it. I see tri-fuel conversion

kits, that allow you to switch back and forth or permanent ones.

Given that it's going to be

outside, in an open area, I don't see a lot of risk in it, but

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,

you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've

seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Forgot to add, you can't parallel those generators. There is
no way to keep them synchronized. I think what you really mean
is to use one for some loads, the other for other loads. As
long as your doing that via extension cords, that's cool.
But if you really mean to parallel them and use them to feed
the main panel, that's out.

wrote in message
...
On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:51:55 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Monday, February 10, 2014 10:34:03 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't



supply quite enough watts for some uses.







One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel



with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous



power.







But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live



with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is



piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store



gasoline.







The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere



in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two



gennies?



--



Pete Cresswell



I think it's the perfect solution for using a portable natural

gas generator. No different than using a gas grill and people have

outdoor gas quick-connect type settups for those. As long as

the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong

with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug

a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.



On the generator side, taking a gas generator and converting

it to nat gas or propane, will result in a generator/appliance,

that is not listed by the appropriate agencies, etc. But

certainly a lot of companies are selling the conversion kits

and a lot of people are doing it. I see tri-fuel conversion

kits, that allow you to switch back and forth or permanent ones.

Given that it's going to be

outside, in an open area, I don't see a lot of risk in it, but

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,

you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've

seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Forgot to add, you can't parallel those generators. There is
no way to keep them synchronized. I think what you really mean
is to use one for some loads, the other for other loads. As
long as your doing that via extension cords, that's cool.
But if you really mean to parallel them and use them to feed
the main panel, that's out.

Certain Honda models can be and are designed to be run parallel operated.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:58:59 AM UTC-5, EXT wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:51:55 AM UTC-5,

wrote:

On Monday, February 10, 2014 10:34:03 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:



I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't







supply quite enough watts for some uses.















One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel







with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous







power.















But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live







with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is







piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store







gasoline.















The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere







in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two







gennies?







--







Pete Cresswell







I think it's the perfect solution for using a portable natural



gas generator. No different than using a gas grill and people have



outdoor gas quick-connect type settups for those. As long as



the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong



with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug



a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.







On the generator side, taking a gas generator and converting



it to nat gas or propane, will result in a generator/appliance,



that is not listed by the appropriate agencies, etc. But



certainly a lot of companies are selling the conversion kits



and a lot of people are doing it. I see tri-fuel conversion



kits, that allow you to switch back and forth or permanent ones.



Given that it's going to be



outside, in an open area, I don't see a lot of risk in it, but



you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,



you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've



seen cost a lot more than converting one.



Forgot to add, you can't parallel those generators. There is

no way to keep them synchronized. I think what you really mean

is to use one for some loads, the other for other loads. As

long as your doing that via extension cords, that's cool.

But if you really mean to parallel them and use them to feed

the main panel, that's out.



Certain Honda models can be and are designed to be run parallel operated.

Interesting. I didn't know or expect that. I just looked
at it though and you're right. The Honda EU series allows it.
They are inverter based, which makes sense, since then it's
easy to synchronize because it's independent of the RPMs. Looks
like all you need is a special cable to link them up.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:34:03 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't
supply quite enough watts for some uses.

One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel
with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous
power.

But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live
with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is
piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store
gasoline.

The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?
I'm planning on an outlet on the deck,like for my BarBQ but bigger,
to connect my 7000watt generator. The (one) little guy would run just
fine offf the grill connection.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:58:59 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:51:55 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Monday, February 10, 2014 10:34:03 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't



supply quite enough watts for some uses.







One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel



with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous



power.







But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live



with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is



piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store



gasoline.







The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere



in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two



gennies?



--



Pete Cresswell



I think it's the perfect solution for using a portable natural

gas generator. No different than using a gas grill and people have

outdoor gas quick-connect type settups for those. As long as

the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong

with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug

a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.



On the generator side, taking a gas generator and converting

it to nat gas or propane, will result in a generator/appliance,

that is not listed by the appropriate agencies, etc. But

certainly a lot of companies are selling the conversion kits

and a lot of people are doing it. I see tri-fuel conversion

kits, that allow you to switch back and forth or permanent ones.

Given that it's going to be

outside, in an open area, I don't see a lot of risk in it, but

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,

you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've

seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Forgot to add, you can't parallel those generators. There is
no way to keep them synchronized. I think what you really mean
is to use one for some loads, the other for other loads. As
long as your doing that via extension cords, that's cool.
But if you really mean to parallel them and use them to feed
the main panel, that's out.

Certain Honda models can be and are designed to be run parallel operated.
Only theier higher end inverter units - and in some cases only to be
"bridged" for 240 volts operation.

On 2/10/2014 10:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:


The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?


Sure, but check your local codes. In some places the gas device must be
secured in place and flex lines may not be permitted. You can also ru n
a gas grill to make the piping worth while too.

Some generators cannot be run in parallel either so you may have to
split the load.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 3:38:02 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/10/2014 10:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:





The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere

in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two

gennies?





Sure, but check your local codes. In some places the gas device must be

secured in place and flex lines may not be permitted. You can also ru n

a gas grill to make the piping worth while too.



Some generators cannot be run in parallel either so you may have to

split the load.

I'd extend that to almost all typical portable generators used for
backup power. The typical generators
you'd buy at HD, Lowes, etc can't be run in parallel. There is no
way to keep the engines synchronized. So far, the
only ones I've seen that can are the Honda ones EXT was referring
to. And those are *inverter* type, the most expensive ones and
not the typical ones most of us here have. They do it via a
special cable that you need between the generators to keep the
inverters in synch. The inverters decouple the engine speed
entirely, so it's trivial to keep them in synch. If you have a
generator without an inverter, ie the less expensive ones, forget about it.

The thing I was worried about was the open ended concept of
paralleling generators. The origial post didn't make any
qualifications, which might leave some with the impression you
can do that with any generator.

Per :
Forgot to add, you can't parallel those generators. There is
no way to keep them synchronized. I think what you really mean
is to use one for some loads, the other for other loads. As
long as your doing that via extension cords, that's cool.
But if you really mean to parallel them and use them to feed
the main panel, that's out.

The gennie that I have now, a Honda EU2000, is designed to be paralleled
with another like it. It's quite a popular option among campers
because it offers the ultimate in fuel economy but allows for higher use
when that use is needed. One of those things, pushing 800-1,200 watts
goes 6-7 hours on a gallon of gas for me.

800-1,200 is what our house cruises on. The high figure for when the
furnace and an old refrigerator are running.

From what I have read so far, two EU2000's pushing the same load, will
go maybe 5 hours on a gallon instead of 6.... but I'm still searching
for actual use data.

The attractions of running them on nat gas would be:

- Not getting up at 0200 to fill tanks - although that's probably
a red herring given the availability of six-gallon external
tanks.

- Not having to store gasoline against a power failure

- Not having to worry about hunting down more gas if/when
the reserve supply runs out.

- Not paying highway tax on the fuel.


The EU2000 served us well during the recent 5-day outage. Our little
gasoline hoard in the garden shed took us through it with
plenty to spare while our neighbor with one of those loud Home Depot
monsters found himself driving an hour and waiting in line to get enough
gas to feed it.

For cooking, we used 16-ounce propane cylinders driving a miniature
grill and a screw-on stove burner.
--
Pete Cresswell

wrote in message news:1c213fd2-746a-458f-b431-

stuff snipped

As long as
the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong
with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug
a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.

Do they come with key locks? I'd be nervous about a gas line that was
accessible by juvenile delinqents from the outside. While I expect it's too
technical for most of them, a few special rugrats do learn how to hotwire
cars and perform other "technical" criminal tasks. (-:

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:37:36 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message news:1c213fd2-746a-458f-b431-

stuff snipped

As long as
the installation is done correctly, there isn't anything wrong
with having a gas connection available outside. You could plug
a gas grill in there using it's flex hose and it's A OK.

Do they come with key locks? I'd be nervous about a gas line that was
accessible by juvenile delinqents from the outside. While I expect it's too
technical for most of them, a few special rugrats do learn how to hotwire
cars and perform other "technical" criminal tasks. (-:
Quick disconnects shut off when disconnected. Backed up by a ball
valve a foot from the disconnect, and a lockable ball valve back at
the meter - uses a padlock.

That's the way my grille connector is set up.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:37:36 -0500, "Robert Green"

stuff snipped

Do they come with key locks? I'd be nervous about a gas line that was
accessible by juvenile delinqents from the outside. While I expect it's
too
technical for most of them, a few special rugrats do learn how to hotwire
cars and perform other "technical" criminal tasks. (-:

Quick disconnects shut off when disconnected. Backed up by a ball
valve a foot from the disconnect, and a lockable ball valve back at
the meter - uses a padlock.

That's the way my grille connector is set up.

Thanks. Good to know it's a secure setup or at least can be designed that
way.

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:51:55 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,
you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've
seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Wouldn't that imply that something isn't being done on the conversion
which is done with equipment designed to use natural gas? Possibly
something involving safety?

On 2/11/2014 9:34 AM, dgk wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:51:55 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,
you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've
seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Wouldn't that imply that something isn't being done on the conversion
which is done with equipment designed to use natural gas? Possibly
something involving safety?

I'd suspect a "volume of sale" issue. Cheaper
to crank out a gazillion consumer models of
units.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:34:50 AM UTC-5, dgk wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:51:55 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:



you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,

you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've

seen cost a lot more than converting one.



Wouldn't that imply that something isn't being done on the conversion

which is done with equipment designed to use natural gas? Possibly

something involving safety?

I don't think so. It's just that last time I looked, couple years
ago, there were very few companies that offered nat gas portables.
There were a lot more manufacturers that sold propane powered ones
and those were half the price. With either fuel they are very similar,
so I think their thinking is with propane it's portable so you can
use it with a cylinder anywhere. More manufacturers, more choices,
lower price. I guess you could buy one of the propane ones and probably
run it off nat gas too, but then you're still converting something
into something else.

But as I said before, if you have nat gas available, using that
with one of the portable generators, like the OP plans on doing
IMO, is a real good backup power solution. I'd also consider one
of the tri-fuel types that can run on gas, propane or nat gas.
You could get set up with that for less than half what one of
the whole house nat gas generators would cost.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:34:50 -0500, dgk wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:51:55 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,
you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've
seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Wouldn't that imply that something isn't being done on the conversion
which is done with equipment designed to use natural gas? Possibly
something involving safety?
Generally, no. Just that there is a lower demand for factory
converted units - low production translates to higher cost.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:45:25 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:34 AM, dgk wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 08:51:55 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

you'll probably hear opinions to the contrary. In which case,
you could buy a portable nat gas generator, but the one's I've
seen cost a lot more than converting one.

Wouldn't that imply that something isn't being done on the conversion
which is done with equipment designed to use natural gas? Possibly
something involving safety?

I'd suspect a "volume of sale" issue. Cheaper
to crank out a gazillion consumer models of
units.
And places like US carb crank out conversion kits at a rate that
makes THEIR costs reasonable - using components - like the regulators,
made in huge numbers for other applications as well by other LARGE
manufacturers.

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
I have a small (2kw) suitcase generator that runs on gas, but doesn't
supply quite enough watts for some uses.

One option is to buy another just like it, except made to run parallel
with the first one, giving 4,000 watts peak and 3,200 watts continuous
power.

But 3,200 is probably more than I need and I'm thinking I could live
with the reduced power output when running on natural gas (which is
piped in to our house) and reap the benefit of not having to store
gasoline.

The Question: Is it realistic to consider a remote gas outlet somewhere
in the yard with a flexible hose that could be connected to the two
gennies?

As a rule of thumb NG generator produce ~80% of the power using the same
engine as it does on liquid gas.

Also depending on the reason for electric outage you may not have NG feed to
the house.

The installs we have use NG as primacy, LP as secondary (while expensive
does not go bad) and liquid gas. Regardless of the type of fuel sources can
be interrupted.

The key is the duty cycle and requited operating time.

Per NotMe:
As a rule of thumb NG generator produce ~80% of the power using the same engine as it does on liquid gas.

Also depending on the reason for electric outage you may not have NG feed to the house.

The installs we have use NG as primacy, LP as secondary (while
expensive does not go bad) and liquid gas. Regardless of the
type of fuel sources can be interrupted.

The key is the duty cycle and requited operating time.

Thanks for the succinct and definitive reply.

What is your experience with how long propane tanks themselves last?
i.e. they are steel and steel rusts.... Anything over 10 years would
effectively be "forever" in our case.

What I'm thinking is something set up for nat gas with a manual cutover
switch to a tank of propane in the event that worse comes to worst.

OTOH, that would seem to require a longer run for the nat gas line.
Without the propane backup, the gennie could be as close to the house as
zoning allows. With propane backup, I would think it needs to be away
from the house (as in the garden shed or something) for safety reasons
in case of a house fire.

Or am I over thinking this?
--
Pete Cresswell

On Monday, February 17, 2014 8:59:15 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per NotMe:

As a rule of thumb NG generator produce ~80% of the power using the same engine as it does on liquid gas.



Also depending on the reason for electric outage you may not have NG feed to the house.



The installs we have use NG as primacy, LP as secondary (while

expensive does not go bad) and liquid gas. Regardless of the

type of fuel sources can be interrupted.



The key is the duty cycle and requited operating time.



Thanks for the succinct and definitive reply.



What is your experience with how long propane tanks themselves last?

i.e. they are steel and steel rusts.... Anything over 10 years would

effectively be "forever" in our case.



What I'm thinking is something set up for nat gas with a manual cutover

switch to a tank of propane in the event that worse comes to worst.



OTOH, that would seem to require a longer run for the nat gas line.

Without the propane backup, the gennie could be as close to the house as

zoning allows. With propane backup, I would think it needs to be away

from the house (as in the garden shed or something) for safety reasons

in case of a house fire.



Or am I over thinking this?

--

Pete Cresswell

You apparently have nat gas. In 30 years with nat gas, I've had
many power outages from a few seconds, all the way up to Hurricane
Sandy, where power was out in much of the region for up to a
week+. Never lost nat gas once.

I guess whether you're over thinking it depends on what
exactly you need the backup power for, what kind of worse case
event you want to protect against, and the liklihood that
nat gas would go out at the same time. I guess in an earthquake
area, there the gas system would be more vulnerable. But
in most of the prime earthquake areas, eg CA, the climate is
such that needing the generator for heat isn't nearly as
great as it would be in WI, so one important need is lessened.
I would think for 99% of the
folks using backup generators, having nat gas as a fuel would
be more than sufficient and the cost, having an ugly propane
tank, etc wouldn't be worth it.