Wanted to remove a couple of posts from this header. Not absolutely sure if the existing header will work not.

This opening is a 10 1/2 ft opening between living and breakfast area.
Should I cut the purlin braces above the header and add a strongback to
support it?

pics @ https://picasaweb.google.com/1168999...3009774/Header

* Opened up one of the ugly plywood wrap. Picture "layer" shows what is underneath. From top to bottom, (1) & (2) top plates, (3) & (4) double 2X6 on stacked on its sides, (5) sheetrock and (6) trim finish covering sheetrock on top of posts.

* Picture "wide" shows the overall view

* picture "left" shows jack stud in relation to marked header

* picture "attic" shows header from above the top plate with purlin brace on left.

On 8/10/2013 9:11 AM, wrote:
Wanted to remove a couple of posts from this header. Not absolutely sure if the existing header will work not.

This opening is a 10 1/2 ft opening between living and breakfast area.
Should I cut the purlin braces above the header and add a strongback to
support it?

Could I suppose but seem likely to be difficult to get enough of a beam
up there to do anything useful...

pics @ https://picasaweb.google.com/1168999...3009774/Header

* Opened up one of the ugly plywood wrap. Picture "layer" shows what
is underneath. From top to bottom, (1)& (2) top plates, (3)& (4) double
2X6 on stacked on its sides, (5) sheetrock and (6) trim finish covering
sheetrock on top of posts.

* Picture "wide" shows the overall view

* picture "left" shows jack stud in relation to marked header

* picture "attic" shows header from above the top plate with purlin brace on left.

The double tuba-six isn't doing much other than filling the space than a
single one as there's no connection between them.

What open span are you planning on in the end is the key to designing
and sizing any modification. I'd figure on replacing the 1/2" ply w/
bolted steel plate of need width 8" or so would likely be close. Adding
a welded flange to the bottom for some additional flexure restraint will
stiffen it up quite a bit at some fabrication cost if you don't have the
facility to do it yourself.

As always in a major reno like this, the caveat is "consult a professional".

--

On 8/10/2013 9:30 AM, dpb wrote:
....

Edited slightly...dpb

The double tuba-sixes other than filling the space aren't doing much
more than a single one as there's no connection between them so the.

What open span you desire in the end is the key to designing and
sizing any modification. I'd figure on replacing the 1/2" ply w/
bolted steel plate of needed width (height in installed orientation,
of course)--8" or so would likely be close by my feel w/ no
calculations, just "feel". Adding a welded flange to the bottom for
additional lateral restraint will stiffen it up quite a bit at some
fabrication cost if you don't have the facility to do it yourself.

As always in a major reno like this, the caveat is "consult a
professional".

--

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:45:15 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/10/2013 9:30 AM, dpb wrote:

...



Edited slightly...dpb



The double tuba-sixes other than filling the space aren't doing much

more than a single one as there's no connection between them so the.



What open span you desire in the end is the key to designing and

sizing any modification. I'd figure on replacing the 1/2" ply w/

bolted steel plate of needed width (height in installed orientation,

of course)--8" or so would likely be close by my feel w/ no

calculations, just "feel". Adding a welded flange to the bottom for

additional lateral restraint will stiffen it up quite a bit at some

fabrication cost if you don't have the facility to do it yourself.



As always in a major reno like this, the caveat is "consult a

professional".



--

dpb, thanks. what's your thought on LVLs? Don't want to take those headers out if not absolutely necessary. Going to "narrow" the opening by a couple of feet or so (on the opposite side of the opened one). After that I'll price out steel plate, since there's one 15 minutes or so from where I am.

thanks
richard

On 8/11/2013 11:48 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:45:15 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/10/2013 9:30 AM, dpb wrote:

...
The double tuba-sixes other than filling the space aren't doing much
more than a single one as there's no connection between them.
....

What open span you desire in the end is the key to designing and
sizing any modification. I'd figure on replacing the 1/2" ply w/
bolted steel plate of needed width (height in installed orientation,
of course)--8" or so would likely be close by my feel w/ no
calculations, just "feel". Adding a welded flange to the bottom for
additional lateral restraint will stiffen it up quite a bit at some
fabrication cost if you don't have the facility to do it yourself.

....

dpb, thanks. what's your thought on LVLs? Don't want to take those
headers out if not absolutely necessary. Going to "narrow" the
opening by a couple of feet or so (on the opposite side of the opened
one). After that I'll price out steel plate, since there's one 15
minutes orso from where I am.


My thoughts on LVLs wrt to what?

Again, the first thing is what is the final opening width and an actual
design load? _THEN_ you can size various alternatives from replacement
to augmentation as was suggesting. But, the key is you need good input
on the load requirements from far more than can be assessed by anybody
on a usenet group simply looking at a couple of pictures that don't even
show the overall structure. (And you'd be extremely foolish to rely on
anybody who would claim they knew enough to be able to tell you
precisely the answer to those from the available information.)

At a minimum if you're not going to get a real engineer's input get the
input from a _good_ builder even if have to pay him for a visit.

Sure, you may get by winging it, but do you really want the risk of
having to go back and do it right perhaps just to save a few hundred
bucks at most up front? No, it's not going to fall down if you just do
as I suggest may be adequate w/o more input but it might be just enough
on the "flexy" side to allow enough sag to crack drywall seams and such.
Or, otoh, you could spend a bunch of bucks on a full-width steel plate
when the pro w/ on-site info could tell you it's fine w/ much less...

--

On Sunday, August 11, 2013 2:43:58 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/11/2013 11:48 AM, wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:45:15 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

On 8/10/2013 9:30 AM, dpb wrote:



...

The double tuba-sixes other than filling the space aren't doing much

more than a single one as there's no connection between them.

...



What open span you desire in the end is the key to designing and

sizing any modification. I'd figure on replacing the 1/2" ply w/

bolted steel plate of needed width (height in installed orientation,

of course)--8" or so would likely be close by my feel w/ no

calculations, just "feel". Adding a welded flange to the bottom for

additional lateral restraint will stiffen it up quite a bit at some

fabrication cost if you don't have the facility to do it yourself.



...



dpb, thanks. what's your thought on LVLs? Don't want to take those

headers out if not absolutely necessary. Going to "narrow" the

opening by a couple of feet or so (on the opposite side of the opened

one). After that I'll price out steel plate, since there's one 15

minutes orso from where I am.





My thoughts on LVLs wrt to what?



Again, the first thing is what is the final opening width and an actual

design load? _THEN_ you can size various alternatives from replacement

to augmentation as was suggesting. But, the key is you need good input

on the load requirements from far more than can be assessed by anybody

on a usenet group simply looking at a couple of pictures that don't even

show the overall structure. (And you'd be extremely foolish to rely on

anybody who would claim they knew enough to be able to tell you

precisely the answer to those from the available information.)



At a minimum if you're not going to get a real engineer's input get the

input from a _good_ builder even if have to pay him for a visit.



Sure, you may get by winging it, but do you really want the risk of

having to go back and do it right perhaps just to save a few hundred

bucks at most up front? No, it's not going to fall down if you just do

as I suggest may be adequate w/o more input but it might be just enough

on the "flexy" side to allow enough sag to crack drywall seams and such.

Or, otoh, you could spend a bunch of bucks on a full-width steel plate

when the pro w/ on-site info could tell you it's fine w/ much less...



--

LVL in general, not specific to my post. A shot in the dark. Not sure if you've
dealt or used them. Are they any good?

thanks
richard

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:11:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Wanted to remove a couple of posts from this header. Not absolutely sure if the existing header will work not. This opening is a 10 1/2 ft opening between living and breakfast area. Should I cut the purlin braces above the header and add a strongback to support it? pics @ https://picasaweb.google.com/1168999...3009774/Header * Opened up one of the ugly plywood wrap. Picture "layer" shows what is underneath. From top to bottom, (1) & (2) top plates, (3) & (4) double 2X6 on stacked on its sides, (5) sheetrock and (6) trim finish covering sheetrock on top of posts. * Picture "wide" shows the overall view * picture "left" shows jack stud in relation to marked header * picture "attic" shows header from above the top plate with purlin brace on left.

Sorry, but those photos were almost useless. We need a view of the entire proposed opening dead on, not a side view. Then close in on each of the two existing sides, and then as good a decription of the existing beam as possible. What is the beam supporting, a living space, an attic floor, do attic trusses rest on this beam in any way, etc???

On 8/11/2013 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:11:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
....

Sorry, but those photos were almost useless. We need a view of the
entire proposed opening dead on, not a side view. Then close in on
each of the two existing sides, and then as good a decription of the
existing beam as possible. What is the beam supporting, a living
space, an attic floor, do attic trusses rest on this beam in any way,
etc???

Well, I'll step up on OP's behalf in that regard -- actually, did pretty
well in showing the construction, just didn't describe what it was he
wants as an end result.

The existing beam is two 2x6 vertically stacked but not connected, w/
under a double 2x4 top plate. There's then a half-inch of ply to match
the thickness of the 3-1/2 of the top plate.

There's a bottom 1x that is simply decorative trim.

The ceiling joists rest on the beam on the upper top plate in the
attic--his foot is on one to the right and the next set over are to the
left beside the roof rafter bracing purlin.

Pretty standard construction -- just don't have the overall dimensions,
etc., needed to have any better idea of what loadings might or roof
pitch, etc., but the actual existing construction is pretty clear.

--

On 8/11/2013 7:08 PM, wrote:
....

My thoughts on LVLs wrt to what?

....

LVL in general, not specific to my post. A shot in the dark. Not
sureif you've dealt or used them. Are they any good?


They are what they are...far too general a ? to respond to. They're an
engineered beam that has very consistent properties suitable for many
purposes, but not necessarily the answer to everything...

--

What was the spacing between the two removed powts? What is the proposed spacing between the new posts?