When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

On May 14, 7:41*am, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Dumb code, probably because of nearby water. But electric stoves use
plugs and have lots of water boiling on them when canning so why can't
a water heater use the same code??

Same code for furnaces. I'm not sure why.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Robert" wrote in message ...
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

When my house was being built, I asked that the electic hot water
heater
be put on a plug so that I could easily unplug it and plug in my
welder,
which is only used once in a while. I was told that this was not
allowed
and the electric water heater was hard wired to the feed.

If you're having a new house built, why not install a separate outlet for
the welder? It's a minimal expense that would save a lot of hassle in the
future.

I wonder the reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot water heater
on a plug disconnect, like the electric clothes dryer.

I wonder if that's a local requirement? I looked in my Code Check
Electrical book and don't see any mention of a hard wire connection. In
fact, many small water heaters come from the factory with corded plugs.

As long as the plug and wire are rated for the load, I don't see what
difference it makes. It's not like you'll be tripping on the cord or
anything.

I installed water heaters at my house and my in-laws house with a 60A
range cords and recepticles. We live in two different counties in
Washington state, and both were inspected installations. Neither
inspector made any mention of it.

In my opinion, it is a safer installation if you need to work on the
water heater (replace an element, or whatever). You can simply unplug the
heater instead of worrying whether the breaker is turned off on the other
side of the house (I believe breaker lockouts are now required for hard
wired appliances for just that reason).

An electric water heater is usually put on a 30A circuit, the same as an
electric clothes dryer. The dryer could potentially pull more current as
the motor starts up, so the same setup should be more than adequate for a
water heater. I chose the 60A cord and recepticle because I preferred
the heavier cable, but a standard dryer cord would have been sufficient.

I would be interested to hear the code reference that prevents corded
installations. Unless things have changed, I thought corded installations
were standard practice in places like Florida.

Anthony Watson
www.mountain-software.com/about.htm

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:41:46 AM UTC-4, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder, which is only used once in a while. I was told that this was not allowed and the electric water heater was hard wired to the feed. I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot water heater on a plug disconnect, like the electric clothes dryer. Does anyone here have a suggestion as to what the problem would be that the code has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Code around here requires a disconnect at the appliance for hardwired things like AC and water heaters. A locking breaker might get past that but I suspect a lot of residential inspectors would still fail you for not having a disconnect.

I'm partial to the dryer plug idea as well for your welder. The main downside is a lot of dryer outlets are on the floor or too low on the wall to get at without moving the dryer.

I have seen more examples of cords installed on garbage disposers and dishwashers in recent times. Those used to usually be hardwired. So I'm not sure if the inspector can really fail you for putting a plug on your water heater. But I'd ask first as if they do fail you there is not a lot you can do. Going over their head just means they will nitpick you from that day on.

On May 14, 9:44 am, HerHusband wrote:

If you're having a new house built, why not install a separate outlet for
the welder? It's a minimal expense that would save a lot of hassle in the
future.


****** That's what we did and I'm quite satisfied with it. I also had
a separate 120V/ 30A outside outlet to plug in a motorhome or camper,
and at least one 120V/ 15A GFI outside outlet on each side of the
house..... Minimal expense, and very handy for electrical tools and
trimmers.... ...

I was just thinking about this water heater thing, and
couldn't think of a good reason
the water heater disconnect wasn't allowed. I think if I have to
replace the water heater in the future, I might put in a disconnect
like is used for the outside air conditioner, just on general
principle.....

Thanks to all who answered...

"jamesgang" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:41:46 AM UTC-4, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the electic hot water heater
be put on a plug so that I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while. I was told that this was not allowed
and the electric water heater was hard wired to the feed. I'm Ok with
that, obviously, but I wonder the reason that the code wouldn't allow the
hot water heater on a plug disconnect, like the electric clothes dryer.
Does anyone here have a suggestion as to what the problem would be that
the code has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Code around here requires a disconnect at the appliance for hardwired
things like AC and water heaters. A locking breaker might get past that
but I suspect a lot of residential inspectors would still fail you for not
having a disconnect.

I'm partial to the dryer plug idea as well for your welder. The main
downside is a lot of dryer outlets are on the floor or too low on the wall
to get at without moving the dryer.

I have seen more examples of cords installed on garbage disposers and
dishwashers in recent times. Those used to usually be hardwired. So I'm
not sure if the inspector can really fail you for putting a plug on your
water heater. But I'd ask first as if they do fail you there is not a lot
you can do. Going over their head just means they will nitpick you from
that day on.

Years ago stoves and dryers were all hard wired, then, with some wisdom they
mandated cord and plugs, which I welcomed. I have always installed
dishwashers and garbage disposers via a cord and plug. The last appliance I
installed was a high efficiency gas water heater, which uses a small
electrical burner motor that generates the flame and a computer to control
it, both low amperage. I installed it with a cord and plug as well.

Oh, man, someone in the USA still practices
freedom? My hope for humanity is restored.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"EXT" wrote in message eb.com...

The last appliance I installed was a high efficiency
gas water heater, which uses a small electrical
burner motor that generates the flame and a
computer to control it, both low amperage. I
installed it with a cord and plug as well.

On 5/14/2013 6:41 AM, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

The NEC covers allowed cord connections in 400.7.
Permitted uses that are relevant a
6. Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange.
8. Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are
specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection.

Number 8 applies to electric stoves and clothes dryers.

Neither apply to water heaters (or furnaces).

Uses not permitted are in 400.8
1. As a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure.

Can you cord an plug connect an outside air conditioning
compressor/condenser?

Someone looked up requirements in UL standards for cords and romex. A
lot of the tests for cords were for flexibility, much different from romex.

A possible 'compromise' might be a disconnect at the water heater with a
receptacle wired before the disconnect.

------------------------------
Regarding a similar recent thread, on furnaces if I remember right, the
NEC explicitly allows garbage disposers to be cord and plug connected.

On 5/14/2013 6:38 PM, bud-- wrote:
On 5/14/2013 6:41 AM, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

The NEC covers allowed cord connections in 400.7.
Permitted uses that are relevant a
6. Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent
interchange.
8. Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are
specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection.

Number 8 applies to electric stoves and clothes dryers.

Neither apply to water heaters (or furnaces).

Uses not permitted are in 400.8
1. As a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure.

Can you cord an plug connect an outside air conditioning
compressor/condenser?

Someone looked up requirements in UL standards for cords and romex. A
lot of the tests for cords were for flexibility, much different from
romex.

A possible 'compromise' might be a disconnect at the water heater with
a receptacle wired before the disconnect.

------------------------------
Regarding a similar recent thread, on furnaces if I remember right,
the NEC explicitly allows garbage disposers to be cord and plug
connected.

I use an electric water heater that is cord and plug connected. The
manufacturer didn't intend it to require periodic disconnection and
removal, but my particular installation required it. I only use it for
summer hot water. I kill my boiler and indirect domestic hot water tank,
and connect the electric with stainless steel flex hoses, flip a couple
of valves and plug it in. Clearly, the manufacturer didn't intend it to
be connected in this fashion, but it works for me. Some times you just
gotta cheat.

On Tue, 14 May 2013 14:44:22 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

When my house was being built, I asked that the electic hot water
heater
be put on a plug so that I could easily unplug it and plug in my
welder,
which is only used once in a while. I was told that this was not
allowed
and the electric water heater was hard wired to the feed.

If you're having a new house built, why not install a separate outlet for
the welder? It's a minimal expense that would save a lot of hassle in the
future.

I wonder the reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot water heater
on a plug disconnect, like the electric clothes dryer.

I wonder if that's a local requirement? I looked in my Code Check
Electrical book and don't see any mention of a hard wire connection. In
fact, many small water heaters come from the factory with corded plugs.

All power vent gas water heaters and 115 volt electric water heaters
have plugs. NO 240 volt water heaters in North America come with
plugs. Now, if you want to become a "manufacturer of record" you can
buy an "incomplete" water heater and a cord, and produce a corded
water heater with you as the final manufacturer - and get special
electrical inspection or CSA / UL approval for it - which makes it
lagal to plug in.

As long as the plug and wire are rated for the load, I don't see what
difference it makes. It's not like you'll be tripping on the cord or
anything.

I installed water heaters at my house and my in-laws house with a 60A
range cords and recepticles. We live in two different counties in
Washington state, and both were inspected installations. Neither
inspector made any mention of it.

In my opinion, it is a safer installation if you need to work on the
water heater (replace an element, or whatever). You can simply unplug the
heater instead of worrying whether the breaker is turned off on the other
side of the house (I believe breaker lockouts are now required for hard
wired appliances for just that reason).

An electric water heater is usually put on a 30A circuit, the same as an
electric clothes dryer. The dryer could potentially pull more current as
the motor starts up, so the same setup should be more than adequate for a
water heater. I chose the 60A cord and recepticle because I preferred
the heavier cable, but a standard dryer cord would have been sufficient.

I would be interested to hear the code reference that prevents corded
installations. Unless things have changed, I thought corded installations
were standard practice in places like Florida.

Anthony Watson
www.mountain-software.com/about.htm

On Tue, 14 May 2013 16:16:36 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"jamesgang" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:41:46 AM UTC-4, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the electic hot water heater
be put on a plug so that I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while. I was told that this was not allowed
and the electric water heater was hard wired to the feed. I'm Ok with
that, obviously, but I wonder the reason that the code wouldn't allow the
hot water heater on a plug disconnect, like the electric clothes dryer.
Does anyone here have a suggestion as to what the problem would be that
the code has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Code around here requires a disconnect at the appliance for hardwired
things like AC and water heaters. A locking breaker might get past that
but I suspect a lot of residential inspectors would still fail you for not
having a disconnect.

I'm partial to the dryer plug idea as well for your welder. The main
downside is a lot of dryer outlets are on the floor or too low on the wall
to get at without moving the dryer.

I have seen more examples of cords installed on garbage disposers and
dishwashers in recent times. Those used to usually be hardwired. So I'm
not sure if the inspector can really fail you for putting a plug on your
water heater. But I'd ask first as if they do fail you there is not a lot
you can do. Going over their head just means they will nitpick you from
that day on.

Years ago stoves and dryers were all hard wired, then, with some wisdom they
mandated cord and plugs, which I welcomed. I have always installed
dishwashers and garbage disposers via a cord and plug. The last appliance I
installed was a high efficiency gas water heater, which uses a small
electrical burner motor that generates the flame and a computer to control
it, both low amperage. I installed it with a cord and plug as well.
Every one of those I've seen had a plug standard equipment.

On Tue, 14 May 2013 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), Robert
wrote:




Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Safety.

What if you were welding and the water heater had a catastrophic
failure and you were suddenly standing in a couple inches of water
while using the electric welder.

Not only would you be electrocuted, your homeowners insurance would
not pay for the damages and the town would fine you for not having a
permit. And not only that, your wife would be ****ed at you for
making a mess.

wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), Robert
wrote:

When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

It is simply because the manufacturer did not have the water heater
listed for cord and plug connection.
They cite 110.3(B) "Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling."

I used my welder on the dryer plug for many years. It still has a
dryer plug on it, so does my big pressure cleaner. That makes it handy
if I go to someone elses house.

It would have to have the cord installed with proper strain relief. Special
order, special cost, or something like that

Greg

On Tue, 14 May 2013 22:16:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2013 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), Robert
wrote:




Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

Safety.

What if you were welding and the water heater had a catastrophic
failure and you were suddenly standing in a couple inches of water
while using the electric welder.

Not only would you be electrocuted, your homeowners insurance would
not pay for the damages and the town would fine you for not having a
permit. And not only that, your wife would be ****ed at you for
making a mess.
And that's the most dangerous part of the whole scenario!!!!!

On May 14, 9:16 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Safety.

What if you were welding and the water heater had a catastrophic
failure and you were suddenly standing in a couple inches of water
while using the electric welder.

Not only would you be electrocuted, your homeowners insurance would
not pay for the damages and the town would fine you for not having a
permit. And not only that, your wife would be ****ed at you for
making a mess.

That can happen anyway, with the separate welder plug located
near the water heater.

On 5/14/2013 5:15 PM, RBM wrote:
On 5/14/2013 6:38 PM, bud-- wrote:
On 5/14/2013 6:41 AM, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

The NEC covers allowed cord connections in 400.7.
Permitted uses that are relevant a
6. Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent
interchange.
8. Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are
specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection.

Number 8 applies to electric stoves and clothes dryers.

Neither apply to water heaters (or furnaces).

Uses not permitted are in 400.8
1. As a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure.

Can you cord an plug connect an outside air conditioning
compressor/condenser?

Someone looked up requirements in UL standards for cords and romex. A
lot of the tests for cords were for flexibility, much different from
romex.

A possible 'compromise' might be a disconnect at the water heater with
a receptacle wired before the disconnect.

------------------------------
Regarding a similar recent thread, on furnaces if I remember right,
the NEC explicitly allows garbage disposers to be cord and plug
connected.

I use an electric water heater that is cord and plug connected. The
manufacturer didn't intend it to require periodic disconnection and
removal, but my particular installation required it. I only use it for
summer hot water. I kill my boiler and indirect domestic hot water tank,
and connect the electric with stainless steel flex hoses, flip a couple
of valves and plug it in. Clearly, the manufacturer didn't intend it to
be connected in this fashion, but it works for me. Some times you just
gotta cheat.

If you are not moving the electric water heater you could do the same
thing with a disconnect at the water heater, maybe with a padlock-off.

Moving it seems like a lot of work. Would think you could find a
permanent home with permanent plumbing and valves.

On 5/15/2013 1:20 PM, bud-- wrote:
On 5/14/2013 5:15 PM, RBM wrote:
On 5/14/2013 6:38 PM, bud-- wrote:
On 5/14/2013 6:41 AM, Robert wrote:
When my house was being built, I asked that the
electic hot water heater be put on a plug so that
I could easily unplug it and plug in my welder,
which is only used once in a while.

I was told that this was not allowed and the
electric water heater was hard wired to the
feed.

I'm Ok with that, obviously, but I wonder the
reason that the code wouldn't allow the hot
water heater on a plug disconnect, like the
electric clothes dryer.

Does anyone here have a suggestion as to
what the problem would be that the code
has to mandate a hardwired connection ?

The NEC covers allowed cord connections in 400.7.
Permitted uses that are relevant a
6. Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent
interchange.
8. Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are
specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection.

Number 8 applies to electric stoves and clothes dryers.

Neither apply to water heaters (or furnaces).

Uses not permitted are in 400.8
1. As a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure.

Can you cord an plug connect an outside air conditioning
compressor/condenser?

Someone looked up requirements in UL standards for cords and romex. A
lot of the tests for cords were for flexibility, much different from
romex.

A possible 'compromise' might be a disconnect at the water heater with
a receptacle wired before the disconnect.

------------------------------
Regarding a similar recent thread, on furnaces if I remember right,
the NEC explicitly allows garbage disposers to be cord and plug
connected.

I use an electric water heater that is cord and plug connected. The
manufacturer didn't intend it to require periodic disconnection and
removal, but my particular installation required it. I only use it for
summer hot water. I kill my boiler and indirect domestic hot water tank,
and connect the electric with stainless steel flex hoses, flip a couple
of valves and plug it in. Clearly, the manufacturer didn't intend it to
be connected in this fashion, but it works for me. Some times you just
gotta cheat.

If you are not moving the electric water heater you could do the same
thing with a disconnect at the water heater, maybe with a padlock-off.

Moving it seems like a lot of work. Would think you could find a
permanent home with permanent plumbing and valves.


Bud, you obviously haven't seen my boiler room!! It's actually not a
problem moving it once I drain it. I like to have all the orifices open
so it can dry out during the winter months

Uh, you weld inside your house?

Just saying.

Fire hazard, fumes, complaints from the spouse, etc.

TimR wrote:
Uh, you weld inside your house?

Just saying.

Fire hazard, fumes, complaints from the spouse, etc.

Plus, danger, complaints from neighbors, kids wanting to help...

Doesn't get much bettter!

Reminds me of the project involving molten aluminum! This project required a
1-gallon steel food can, a one-pint steel soup can, some charcoal
briquettes, a hair-dryer, and some cut up pieces of aluminum beer cans.
Plus, of course, some tongs and stuff.

You'll also need a mold for your aluminum casting.