The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience. Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have to know which heater served her break room area and get by the security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters, getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

On Feb 28, 11:33*am, Pavel314 wrote:
The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience. Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have to know which heater served her break room area and get by the security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters, getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange. For one thing,
in my world very few people even use hot water to
make drinks or anything else with because hot water is
usually an unfit source. One or two? maybe, but 20,
all on one day were using hot tap water for beverages?
And any contamination would have
to be huge for a cup of cocoa to make people sick. A lot of
times when you have a whole bunch of people sick like
that it turns out most of them were psychosomatic.
Also, I wouldn't assume the test results of an initial
response team are conclusive...... It's possible if it's
the hot water that there is more stuff in there besides
the nitrates.....

Pavel314 wrote:
The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on
Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were
dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came
to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one
of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people
in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap
for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the
water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater
would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe
someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for
an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system
problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock
salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water
softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience.
Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and
not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it
might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but
contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have
to know which heater served her break room area and get by the
security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters,
getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

Is there any kind of ice machine in that section of the building?

Sometimes, an ice-making machine can have a sewer line backup into where the
ice is stored (especially if the ice machine doesn't have an air gap in the
drain line), then the sewage drains out, and what is left is contaminated
ice. The other options would be some other type of foodborne illness, which
I doubt that a fire department would know how to assess or identify.

On Feb 28, 4:33*pm, Pavel314 wrote:
The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience. Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have to know which heater served her break room area and get by the security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters, getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

Nitrates usually comes from ****.
It usually comes with lots of nasty bacteria too.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:44 -0800 (PST), Pavel314
wrote:

but we're on city water

Does the city utilize wells?

"Nitrate can occur naturally in surface and groundwater at a level
that does not generally cause health problems. High levels of nitrate
in well water often result from improper well construction, well
location, overuse of chemical fertilizers, or improper disposal of
human and animal waste. Sources of nitrate that can enter your well
include fertilizers, septic systems, animal feedlots, industrial
waste, and food processing waste. Wells may be more vulnerable to such
contamination after flooding, particularly if the wells are shallow,
have been dug or bored, or have been submerged by floodwater for long
periods of time."

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/nitrate.html

Might check your local water authority to see if they publish an
annual water quality report.

Pavel314 wrote:
The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on
Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were
dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came
to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one
of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people
in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap
for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the
water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater
would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe
someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for
an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system
problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock
salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water
softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience.
Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and
not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it
might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but
contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have
to know which heater served her break room area and get by the
security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters,
getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

Out of curiosity, I did a Google search for "nitrates and nitrites
contaminating hot water heaters" and the following are two of the website
links that came up:

http://hub.jhu.edu/2013/02/27/keswick-illness-update
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046656.htm

After reading the second one, I wonder if any service was recently done on
the boiler in question.

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:22:58 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
Pavel314 wrote: The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals. The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks. My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for an office building would know. Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience. Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and not the whole line, hot and cold? My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have to know which heater served her break room area and get by the security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters, getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy. Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update. Out of curiosity, I did a Google search for "nitrates and nitrites contaminating hot water heaters" and the following are two of the website links that came up: http://hub.jhu.edu/2013/02/27/keswick-illness-update http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046656.htm After reading the second one, I wonder if any service was recently done on the boiler in question.

That first link is where I work. The second one is very interesting; that backflow valve problem sounds like it could be the problem. I forwarded it to our building manager. Thanks.

Bob wrote:

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange.

Nope. Quite common.

"Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in July 1976 when an outbreak of
pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of theAmerican Legion
at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia. On January 18, 1977 the
causative agent was identified as a previously unknown strain of bacteria,
subsequently named Legionella. Some people can be infected with the
Legionella bacteria and have only mild symptoms or no illness at all."

The disease was transmitted via the hotel's hot water supply.

Pavel314 wrote:
The building I work at was evacuated on Tuesday and shut down on
Wendnesday after about 20 people in one area got sick; they were
dizzy and nauseated enough to be taken to hospitals.

The hazmat team from the fire department checked everything and came
to the conclusion that it was nitrates and nitrites contaminating one
of several hot water heaters in the building. Apparently the people
in the area supplied by that heater used the hot water from the tap
for cooking or making tea and cocoa drinks.

My first thought was that a gasket or seal gave out, allowing the
water to contact the contaminants, but I can't see why a water heater
would have large amounts of nitrates and nitrites involved. Maybe
someone on the group with experience in large-scale water heaters for
an office building would know.

Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system
problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock
salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water
softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience.
Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and
not the whole line, hot and cold?

My wife, who watches a lot of Miss Marple type mysteries, thought it
might be somebody trying to kill his girlfriend who works there, but
contaminating a hot water heater seems a far fetched plot. He'd have
to know which heater served her break room area and get by the
security desk in the lobby. Plus, from what I know of water heaters,
getting the contaminants into the heater would not be easy.

Any thoughts? If we hear how it happened, I'll post an update.

The hot water supply, because it isn't hot enough, is a frequent source of
all manner of nastiness. The nastiness, however, is usually of the bacterial
variety.

In your case, because folks suffered a chemical contamination, the hot water
system is merely one possibility, not the prime one.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:44 -0800 (PST), Pavel314
wrote:


Someone in our department thought it might be a water softener system problem; maybe someone grabbed a bag of fertilizer instead of rock salt for the flush and wash cycle, but we're on city water and water softeners are generally used with hard well water in my experience. Plus, would they have a softener servicing only the water heater and not the whole line, hot and cold?


I doubt that is the problem, but yes, softeners are often used on city
water systems. City water can be very hard and can come from wells
too. We use a softener on out boiler feed water. By code, there must
be a backflow preventer on the line also. Our town checks them twice
a year . We have five of them in the building including the feeds for
the fire sprinkler system. Most codes also call for backflow
preventers where there is a lawn sprinkler system to prevent
contamination from the lawn chemicals.

As for only the hot water being softened, yes, that is possible
depending on where the water is used. Makes for better dish washing
in the cafeteria, and for laundry.

On Feb 28, 9:25*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob wrote:

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange.

Nope. Quite common.

"Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in July 1976 when an outbreak of
pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of theAmerican Legion
at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia. On January 18, 1977 the
causative agent was identified as a previously unknown strain of bacteria,
subsequently named Legionella. Some people can be infected with the
Legionella bacteria and have only mild symptoms or no illness at all."

The disease was transmitted via the hotel's hot water supply.

Has to inhaled as an aerosol. Showers, cooling towers etc are the
problem.

HeyBub wrote:
Bob wrote:

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange.

Nope. Quite common.

"Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in July 1976 when an
outbreak of pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of
theAmerican Legion at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia.
On January 18, 1977 the causative agent was identified as a
previously unknown strain of bacteria, subsequently named Legionella.
Some people can be infected with the Legionella bacteria and have
only mild symptoms or no illness at all."
The disease was transmitted via the hotel's hot water supply.

Actually, if I recall correctly, at the Bellevue-Stratford the disease was
transmitted via the HVAC system and was created by contamination in the HVAC
cooling towers.

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:49:38 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Bob wrote:

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange.

Nope. Quite common.

"Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in July 1976 when an
outbreak of pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of
theAmerican Legion at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia.
On January 18, 1977 the causative agent was identified as a
previously unknown strain of bacteria, subsequently named Legionella.
Some people can be infected with the Legionella bacteria and have
only mild symptoms or no illness at all."
The disease was transmitted via the hotel's hot water supply.

Actually, if I recall correctly, at the Bellevue-Stratford the disease was
transmitted via the HVAC system and was created by contamination in the HVAC
cooling towers.


You would be correct. Since that time, most operators of cooling
towers pay much more attention to cleaning them.

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 23:11:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:49:38 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Bob wrote:

I don't know, but 20 people all getting sick at the same
time from hot water sounds very strange.

Nope. Quite common.

"Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in July 1976 when an
outbreak of pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of
theAmerican Legion at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia.
On January 18, 1977 the causative agent was identified as a
previously unknown strain of bacteria, subsequently named Legionella.
Some people can be infected with the Legionella bacteria and have
only mild symptoms or no illness at all."
The disease was transmitted via the hotel's hot water supply.

Actually, if I recall correctly, at the Bellevue-Stratford the disease was
transmitted via the HVAC system and was created by contamination in the HVAC
cooling towers.


You would be correct. Since that time, most operators of cooling
towers pay much more attention to cleaning them.

An outbreak happened in 2011/12 in Las Vegas. One tourist died.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2012/02/legionnaires-death-linked-to-las-vegas-luxor.html

Oh, watch out for bed bugs too.