I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.


If it *is* 21.6, they are probably protected from *under* stating the
value. And some bean counter told them that 20V was a number folks
could remember- but 21.6V was hard and might be confused with 1.6 or
11.6 or 'two 1.6v'

Or maybe they have a new magic 4v cell & they're telling the truth.
Buy one, test it, and return it if it doesn't 'meet or exceed'
manufacturer's claims.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Just like the Dyson vacuum ads that I see, they always have a feature that
seems to grossly exaggerate their ability to defy the laws physics. They may
be good but you cannot trust what they say in the ads. For example, the
"ball" vacuum, actually uses wheels that have a convex outside to appear to
be a ball, a heater fan that can stop hot air from rising, then says it is
20% more efficient than other heater fans, and other ads that promote such
claims.

In article ,
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Here you go, I googled this for you. Apparently, it isn't a "20 volt"
battery, it's a "20 volt Max" battery.

From this page:

http://www.dewalt.com/20vmax

Comes this asterisk reference sentence:

"With respect to 20V MAX*: Maximum initial battery voltage (measured
without a workload) is 20 volts. Nominal voltage is 18."

Does that make them lying sacks of ****? In my book, yes.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:16:49 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

How do you get 12V from LiIon cells? Bosch used to sell 10.8V (3x3.6V
cells) batteries but the recent one's I've bought are marked 12V. The
only answer is that they're charged from 4.1V, so... Five cells x4.1V
is 20.5Volts. Sears is giving you a halfa volt free!

I consider this to be false advertising.

Sears? False advertising? Who wudda thunk!

On 12/11/2012 8:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Do you remember years ago when audio amplifiers were advertized with
inflated power outputs? It was measured when there was an instantaneous
peak in power output when lightning struck the power line. I think The
FTC stepped in with rules for the manufacturers of audio gear to put
true continuous power output test results in their advertizing. O_o

TDD

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.


If it *is* 21.6, they are probably protected from *under* stating the
value. And some bean counter told them that 20V was a number folks
could remember- but 21.6V was hard and might be confused with 1.6 or
11.6 or 'two 1.6v'

Or maybe they have a new magic 4v cell & they're telling the truth.
Buy one, test it, and return it if it doesn't 'meet or exceed'
manufacturer's claims.

Jim

FWIW, most individuals seem to have an affinity for odd numbers, so 21V would be
preferable to 20V

On 12/11/2012 6:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

You're correct. The reputable companies advertise 5 cell Li-Ion powered
power tools as 18V.

I don't know if you'll get any state attorney general to take this case
though.

This reminds me of the old days if audio amplifier wattage being
measured in IPP (instantaneous peak power) which bore no relation to
actual RMS power.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:38:51 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:


"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
.. .
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Just like the Dyson vacuum ads that I see, they always have a feature that
seems to grossly exaggerate their ability to defy the laws physics. They may
be good but you cannot trust what they say in the ads. For example, the
"ball" vacuum, actually uses wheels that have a convex outside to appear to
be a ball, a heater fan that can stop hot air from rising, then says it is
20% more efficient than other heater fans, and other ads that promote such
claims.
Just because a ball is split does not make it any less a ball -
there needs to be a way to support it - in Dyson's case - an axle. As
for the heater - the high velocity air movement DOES keep the heatdown
farther from the heater - and what does the fine print say about the
efficiency? It says it is more efficient AT HEATING A ROOM. See test
results (not from Dyson) at
http://www.paulanthonywilson.com/blo...ific-approach/

I would not call these 2 ads false or misleading.. Like his products,
they are a bit "creative" - and although some people (like you) may
dissagree technically because you did not read accurately what was
said (re efficiency) if it takes 20% less time at full power to heat a
room to a preset temperature it IS 20% more efficient at heating the
room - even if it does not convert any more watts of input into BTUs.

Now, 20 volt batteries that ARE really just 18 volt lithium batterie
IS misleading and false advertizing, because they are weasle-talking -
advertizing their product using the same "terms" as everyone else -
but with different meaning. Just like "peak air horsepower" vs
"horsepower" on vacuums and air compressors. Particularly when finding
the "peak air" part is virtually impossible in their ad copy.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:17:16 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/11/2012 8:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Do you remember years ago when audio amplifiers were advertized with
inflated power outputs? It was measured when there was an instantaneous
peak in power output when lightning struck the power line. I think The
FTC stepped in with rules for the manufacturers of audio gear to put
true continuous power output test results in their advertizing. O_o

TDD
They are still ALLOWED to advertize "peak power output" but they MUST
also include the "rms" or "music power" output.

On 12/11/2012 09:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Buy quality tools like Hilti and you won't have to worry about getting
ripped off.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:48:25 -0500, wrote:

"ball" vacuum, actually uses wheels that have a convex outside to appear to
be a ball, a heater fan that can stop hot air from rising, then says it is
20% more efficient than other heater fans, and other ads that promote such
claims.
Just because a ball is split does not make it any less a ball -
there needs to be a way to support it - in Dyson's case - an axle. As
for the heater - the high velocity air movement DOES keep the heatdown
farther from the heater - and what does the fine print say about the
efficiency? It says it is more efficient AT HEATING A ROOM. See test
results (not from Dyson) at

Holy ****.....
You split your balls in half and put axles on them. And now you want to
heat your balls!!! That's just insane!

Damn, isn't that kind of a personal problem that someone would not want
to post on a public newsgroup.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:17:16 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/11/2012 8:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Do you remember years ago when audio amplifiers were advertized with
inflated power outputs? It was measured when there was an instantaneous
peak in power output when lightning struck the power line. I think The
FTC stepped in with rules for the manufacturers of audio gear to put
true continuous power output test results in their advertizing. O_o

TDD

I recall looking at a boombox at Walmart some years ago that claimed it
was 5000 watts. I about **** my pants reading that on the package. I
used to run sound for a band, and when they upgraded their sound system,
I bought the old one just for home stereo use, because the trade in
offer was rediculous, so I got a nice sound system cheap. It's a mixer
board and power amp, rated at 300W (per channel) RMS, plus the speakers.
I could fill a pretty good size concert hall with that amp and the sound
was always clear. The speakers are 15" and big horns, and the power
transistors on that amp have huge heat sinks and really can kick butt,
as well as pimp out some heat.

So this droid at Walmart was bragging how that boom box could produce
5000W with it's two 6 inch speakers and even run on a half dozen D-cell
batteries or something like that. I about laughed my ass off.....

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:40:08 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:


Here you go, I googled this for you. Apparently, it isn't a "20 volt"
battery, it's a "20 volt Max" battery.

From this page:

http://www.dewalt.com/20vmax

Comes this asterisk reference sentence:

"With respect to 20V MAX*: Maximum initial battery voltage (measured
without a workload) is 20 volts. Nominal voltage is 18."

Does that make them lying sacks of ****? In my book, yes.

I'd march right down to that store with an attorney and sue the pants
off them. Next week you will own that store......

On 12/13/2012 12:57 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:48:25 -0500, wrote:

"ball" vacuum, actually uses wheels that have a convex outside to appear to
be a ball, a heater fan that can stop hot air from rising, then says it is
20% more efficient than other heater fans, and other ads that promote such
claims.
Just because a ball is split does not make it any less a ball -
there needs to be a way to support it - in Dyson's case - an axle. As
for the heater - the high velocity air movement DOES keep the heatdown
farther from the heater - and what does the fine print say about the
efficiency? It says it is more efficient AT HEATING A ROOM. See test
results (not from Dyson) at

Holy ****.....
You split your balls in half and put axles on them. And now you want to
heat your balls!!! That's just insane!

Damn, isn't that kind of a personal problem that someone would not want
to post on a public newsgroup.



Did somebody mention balls? ^_^

http://i.imgur.com/Y222m.jpg

TDD

On 12/13/2012 1:12 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:17:16 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/11/2012 8:16 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I think it was here that I posted a few months back that I had
discovered that the allegedly 19.2-Volt "Craftsman" power tools use the
same five Li-Ion cells (3.6V per cell) as other manufacturers use in
their 18-Volt tools -- 5x3.6=18.

Now I see an ad in the latest Menards (mid-West "home improvement"
chain) flyer for "MasterForce" (a store brand, I think) power tools that
use a 20-Volt Li-Ion battery.

There is no combination of 3.6-Volt cells that will result in a
19.2-Volt or 20-Volt battery pack -- except, perhaps, if the voltage is
measured within a very short time after the charger is disconnected. And
if they were using six such cells (which Craftsman isn't), why wouldn't
they advertise the tools as 21.6-Volt tools?

I consider this to be false advertising.

Perce

Do you remember years ago when audio amplifiers were advertized with
inflated power outputs? It was measured when there was an instantaneous
peak in power output when lightning struck the power line. I think The
FTC stepped in with rules for the manufacturers of audio gear to put
true continuous power output test results in their advertizing. O_o

TDD

I recall looking at a boombox at Walmart some years ago that claimed it
was 5000 watts. I about **** my pants reading that on the package. I
used to run sound for a band, and when they upgraded their sound system,
I bought the old one just for home stereo use, because the trade in
offer was rediculous, so I got a nice sound system cheap. It's a mixer
board and power amp, rated at 300W (per channel) RMS, plus the speakers.
I could fill a pretty good size concert hall with that amp and the sound
was always clear. The speakers are 15" and big horns, and the power
transistors on that amp have huge heat sinks and really can kick butt,
as well as pimp out some heat.

So this droid at Walmart was bragging how that boom box could produce
5000W with it's two 6 inch speakers and even run on a half dozen D-cell
batteries or something like that. I about laughed my ass off.....


I sort of wonder if there was a tiny "milli" printed in front of
"WATTS"? ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:12:53 -0600, wrote:




I recall looking at a boombox at Walmart some years ago that claimed it
was 5000 watts. I about **** my pants reading that on the package.

Reminds me of a story. A guy at work, when he was a teenager went to
an Ann & Hope store in Rhode Island. He saw a big boom box on display
and just had to try it out. He opened a pack of batteries and loaded
it up, put in a heavy metal tape he had, and put it on his shoulder at
full volume and walked around the store. The manger shouted to him
"Get the hell out of here with that thing." So he did.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 03:51:31 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Did somebody mention balls? ^_^

http://i.imgur.com/Y222m.jpg

TDD

OMG That's too much!!!!!!

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:01:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:12:53 -0600, wrote:




I recall looking at a boombox at Walmart some years ago that claimed it
was 5000 watts. I about **** my pants reading that on the package.

Reminds me of a story. A guy at work, when he was a teenager went to
an Ann & Hope store in Rhode Island. He saw a big boom box on display
and just had to try it out. He opened a pack of batteries and loaded
it up, put in a heavy metal tape he had, and put it on his shoulder at
full volume and walked around the store. The manger shouted to him
"Get the hell out of here with that thing." So he did.

ROTFL ...... I love it!!!!!

On 12/13/2012 3:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 03:51:31 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Did somebody mention balls? ^_^

http://i.imgur.com/Y222m.jpg

TDD

OMG That's too much!!!!!!


I wonder if it's a legal way to hunt deer? ^_^

TDD