My pool pump motor is running -- the air is blowing out of the pipe in the deep end and making a noise -- but it is not coming out at the shallow end -- don't know the name of the pipe but its an aerator... circulating the water. Anyway I think it means the pump is going bad ... but not out altogether since its trying to work at the deep end. I have the motor turned off now.

Is there anything else that would make it act like that? I know we have replaced the pump motor in the past -- but don't think we had to replace the pump. My late husband took care of that....I have a call in to the company that I usually use but haven't heard back. Went online to a local company that sells equipment and all I could find was pumps with motors .

Any help in diagnosing the problem would be welcome.

On Dec 10, 8:52*am, Dottie wrote:
My pool pump motor is running -- the air is blowing out of the pipe in the deep end and making a noise -- but it is not coming out at the shallow end -- don't know the name of the pipe but its an aerator... circulating the water.

Air coming out typically means there is a leak in the
suction side of the pump system. Possible places include
seals on pump strainer, seals on filter, valves, piping, etc.



Anyway I think it means the pump is going bad ... but not out
altogether since its trying to work at the deep end. I have the motor
turned off now.



Is there anything else that would make it act like that?

See above. Unless the seals in the pump are shot, in
which case I'd expect water to be coming out at the pump,
how could air get in there?

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 05:52:00 -0800 (PST), Dottie
wrote:

My pool pump motor is running -- the air is blowing out of the pipe in the deep end and making a noise -- but it is not coming out at the shallow end -- don't know the name of the pipe but its an aerator... circulating the water. Anyway I think it means the pump is going bad ... but not out altogether since its trying to work at the deep end. I have the motor turned off now.

Is there anything else that would make it act like that? I know we have replaced the pump motor in the past -- but don't think we had to replace the pump. My late husband took care of that....I have a call in to the company that I usually use but haven't heard back. Went online to a local company that sells equipment and all I could find was pumps with motors .

Any help in diagnosing the problem would be welcome.

Post the brand and model number.

1) The O-rings at the leaf strainer basket and/or where the motor
mates to the pump at the impeller may be bad. They eventually become
flattened on one side, perhaps allowing air into the system.

2) Dirty filter.

3) Air leak at a connection on the pipe(s).

4) If you have solar panels, air can also enter the system somewhere
from a poor connection.

5) The seal for the shaft bearing is leaking.

With a model number and brand you can find an exploded diagram view of
all the components.

This is a generic view:

http://www.poolcenter.com/images_new/hayward-power-flo-sp-1500-pump-parts.jpg

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:28:17 -0500, wrote:

Look in the top of ther strainer basket on the pump with the pump
running (it is usually a clear plastic cover). See if you see air
flowing around in there.

Try venting the air out of the filter to see if it gets better but if
you are still seeing air come in, you have a suction side problem.
Is the skimmer still under water? Basket clean?
With the pump off, are you losing water from the pool?
If so you may have a broken pipe or fitting,

I've been chasing an air bubble problem in my pool for awhile now.

After watching this video and reading the comments, it never crossed
my mind the problem could be the water level or an O-ring in the
suction side Jandy valve.

The Jandy is original to the pool. I've not tried replacing the O-ring
as I never noticed a leak. When I bought the house the filler float
valve was replaced, but I'm not sure it was adjusted to the proper
fill level (skimmer may be sucking air). I have had cracks in the
Kreepy Krawler suction hose that I replaced a section with new.

These are the only two things left for me to check. The pump and
filter is new in the past couple of year to eighteen months.

A good video for the OP to view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUMJdNyQM5o

On Monday, December 10, 2012 5:52:00 AM UTC-8, Dottie wrote:
My pool pump motor is running -- the air is blowing out of the pipe in the deep end and making a noise -- but it is not coming out at the shallow end -- don't know the name of the pipe but its an aerator... circulating the water. Anyway I think it means the pump is going bad ... but not out altogether since its trying to work at the deep end. I have the motor turned off now.



Is there anything else that would make it act like that? I know we have replaced the pump motor in the past -- but don't think we had to replace the pump. My late husband took care of that....I have a call in to the company that I usually use but haven't heard back. Went online to a local company that sells equipment and all I could find was pumps with motors .



Any help in diagnosing the problem would be welcome.









I added water -- and it is working normally. We have had a very dry year and a lot of fine sandy dirt had blown into the pool. I cleaned the filter -- and that is when I noticed it wasn't right. By adding water at the clean-out basket -- it made it build up pressure so the pump was working again. I know that sounds crazy ... but I also talked to the man who works on my pool when it needs it and he walked me through it. So far its o.k. No signs of leaks anywhere.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:48:29 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:47:18 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:28:17 -0500, wrote:

Look in the top of ther strainer basket on the pump with the pump
running (it is usually a clear plastic cover). See if you see air
flowing around in there.

Try venting the air out of the filter to see if it gets better but if
you are still seeing air come in, you have a suction side problem.
Is the skimmer still under water? Basket clean?
With the pump off, are you losing water from the pool?
If so you may have a broken pipe or fitting,

I've been chasing an air bubble problem in my pool for awhile now.

After watching this video and reading the comments, it never crossed
my mind the problem could be the water level or an O-ring in the
suction side Jandy valve.

The Jandy is original to the pool. I've not tried replacing the O-ring
as I never noticed a leak. When I bought the house the filler float
valve was replaced, but I'm not sure it was adjusted to the proper
fill level (skimmer may be sucking air). I have had cracks in the
Kreepy Krawler suction hose that I replaced a section with new.

These are the only two things left for me to check. The pump and
filter is new in the past couple of year to eighteen months.

A good video for the OP to view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUMJdNyQM5o

If you have solar collectors on the pool it is pretty normal to see
bubbles in the return water. There is an air admittance valve at the
high point of the collector array that allows them to drain down more
readily and not freeze if it gets cold..
The real test is to see if the pump stabilizes and does not develop an
air pocket after it has been cleared. The easiest place to bleed the
air is the filter.

I have that valve on my solar. I call it a "positive drain" (for lack
of correct name). Irrigation lines can also use a "positive drain" on
an end run, so the lines drain and no need to blow the lines out in
winter.

I have the panel actuator turned off right now so water is not moving
through it. I still have bubbles even when bleeding the filter after
cleaning.

The original owner had the filler float valve replaced just before I
bought the house (negotiated). That is why I'm thinking the water
level may not be high enough at the skimmer. I'll adjust it and see.
The only other thing I can think of is the O-ring in the suction side
Jandy valve, which is original (14 years old). It may be sucking air.

The pump does stabilize after self-priming, but I still get bubbles
for a minute or so when the system turns on.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:45:15 -0800 (PST), Dottie
wrote:

I added water -- and it is working normally. We have had a very dry year and a lot of fine sandy dirt had blown into the pool. I cleaned the filter -- and that is when I noticed it wasn't right. By adding water at the clean-out basket -- it made it build up pressure so the pump was working again. I know that sounds crazy ... but I also talked to the man who works on my pool when it needs it and he walked me through it. So far its o.k. No signs of leaks anywhere.

Thanks for the follow-up.

I take it your pool does not fill automatically when the water drops
its level?

On 12/11/2012 7:45 AM, Dottie wrote:

I added water -- and it is working normally. We have had a very dry year and a lot of fine sandy dirt had blown into the pool. I cleaned the filter -- and that is when I noticed it wasn't right. By adding water at the clean-out basket -- it made it build up pressure so the pump was working again. I know that sounds crazy ... but I also talked to the man who works on my pool when it needs it and he walked me through it. So far its o.k. No signs of leaks anywhere.

Yep. The water level should be above the skimmer level by a couple of
inches to prevent the pump from sucking air.

Add water to the deep end, since that's where the skimmer is located.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:23:00 -0800, sms
wrote:

Add water to the deep end, since that's where the skimmer is located.


Giggle

On 12/10/2012 7:52 AM, Dottie wrote:
My pool pump motor is running -- the air is blowing out of the pipe in the deep end and making a noise -- but it is not coming out at the shallow end -- don't know the name of the pipe but its an aerator... circulating the water. Anyway I think it means the pump is going bad ... but not out altogether since its trying to work at the deep end. I have the motor turned off now.

Is there anything else that would make it act like that? I know we have replaced the pump motor in the past -- but don't think we had to replace the pump. My late husband took care of that....I have a call in to the company that I usually use but haven't heard back. Went online to a local company that sells equipment and all I could find was pumps with motors .

Any help in diagnosing the problem would be welcome.


How old is the impeller housing? It's common for them to develop leaks.
Is the pressure building up properly? Does the pump start-up quickly or
does it take a long time to prime? It's usually fairly easy to remove
the pump housing and take it to a pool supply store and let them inspect
it.

From what you're saying, it sounds to me like, you're not building
pressure. You should have a pressure gauge. See if the pressure is
building like it used to. Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump. Your system will depend on your
equipment.

Could be a lot of things but check the obvious. O-rings, valves, leaks,
housings, couplings. Someone said to make sure the pump basket o-ring is
clean, lubed and in good working order. That's where I'd start. Occam's
razor.

On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.


What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

It normally runs at about 18 or 19 psi and builds to around 30 when I
backwash. I'm always asking pool techs if that's right and they say it's
different on different systems but sounds about right. It usually jumps
up to 30 or 32 when it needs to be cleaned.

I need a new Polaris booster pump and housing. The housing just
developed a leak and the pump sounds pretty weak.

I just fired up the hot-tub. It's going to be cold tonight.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:49:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:23:00 -0800, sms
wrote:

Add water to the deep end, since that's where the skimmer is located.


Giggle

Right, that'll make it too deep. A child might drown!

On 12/11/2012 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:47:28 -0600, gonjah wrote:

On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.


What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

It normally runs at about 18 or 19 psi and builds to around 30 when I
backwash. I'm always asking pool techs if that's right and they say it's
different on different systems but sounds about right. It usually jumps
up to 30 or 32 when it needs to be cleaned.

I need a new Polaris booster pump and housing. The housing just
developed a leak and the pump sounds pretty weak.

I just fired up the hot-tub. It's going to be cold tonight.

I have a paper cartridge filter. When I built the pool I was looking
for the lowest head possible to make it more efficient so all of the
trunk lines are 3" pipe, necked down to a 2" ring for the returns and
separate 2" lines feeding the 3" from the suctions. With the cartridge
removed the head is about 2-3

I have a spa too.
If you have solars, i figured out a trick. I put in some extra valves
so I can switch the collectors from the pool to the spa. Even on a
fairly cool day, I can get 85-90 degree water for free. Then that
extra 10-15 degrees is pretty cheap.

My next pump is going to be DC too but I am getting one that runs on
solar power, This StaRite just won't die.


Sounds reasonable. Your plumbing and medium is probably why your
pressure is lower than mine.

I don't have solar heaters. I have a big Raypak Nat Gas heater that
kicks ass. I got it for half price. They made me an offer I couldn't
refuse. For most of the swimming season I have to shade the pool to cool
it off, so heating isn't much of a problem. Or, in the summer at least.

Nat gas is so cheap now. This whole year my bill is under $300 and I
have a gas stove, heat and water heater. We heat the spa up about 1 or 2
times a week. With cheap nat gas I don't think solar heating is
in my future but who knows? I've been thinking about getting a nat gas
generator for back-up.

I just put in my new pump so it's going to be awhile before I worry
about that, and then it maybe something completely new. I've never heard
of a DC solar powered pool pump. Sounds interesting. Right now I'll bet
they are not cheap. Isn't just a var speed dc pump/motor about $1600?

On 12/11/2012 4:47 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.


What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

Those pumps have a very short lifetime. You're better off getting a two
speed regular pump. No real advantage to variable speed versus a
high/low speed pump.

On 12/11/2012 11:36 PM, sms wrote:
On 12/11/2012 4:47 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.


What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

Those pumps have a very short lifetime. You're better off getting a two
speed regular pump. No real advantage to variable speed versus a
high/low speed pump.


Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

thanks

On Dec 12, 12:48*am, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 11:36 PM, sms wrote:





On 12/11/2012 4:47 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.

What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

Those pumps have a very short lifetime. You're better off getting a two
speed regular pump. No real advantage to variable speed versus a
high/low speed pump.

Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know of any statistics, but you can do the math
and the rest is common sense. The big savings in
running a pool pump come from running it at lower speed.
It then takes longer to move the same amount of water,
but by decreasing the pump speed the power drops by
the cube of the speed. You get that benefit with either
a two speed pump or a variable. The variable may have
some more advantage in regard to speed because you
could slow it down even more than a two-speed pump,
but you still have to run it at some reasonable speed to
get enough water moved to do the filtering, so I don't
think it has much additional advantage with regard to speed
reduction. The variable speed pump may also be a little
more efficient in using electricity in general too.

Now, the downsides are that the variable speed pump
costs a lot more than a two speed pump. So much more
that it would take a long time to recover the difference.
And also, the variable speed motor has electronics,
something I'd prefer to stay away from, unless there is
a big benefit, particulalry in that environment. If the
two speed motor goes on you, they are readily available
from many motor companies for a couple hundred bucks.
The variable speed one is likely only available from the
pump manufacturer and you can check out what that
will cost......

On 12/12/2012 9:38 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:50:00 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 12, 12:48 am, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 11:36 PM, sms wrote:





On 12/11/2012 4:47 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.

What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

Those pumps have a very short lifetime. You're better off getting a two
speed regular pump. No real advantage to variable speed versus a
high/low speed pump.

Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know of any statistics, but you can do the math
and the rest is common sense. The big savings in
running a pool pump come from running it at lower speed.
It then takes longer to move the same amount of water,
but by decreasing the pump speed the power drops by
the cube of the speed. You get that benefit with either
a two speed pump or a variable. The variable may have
some more advantage in regard to speed because you
could slow it down even more than a two-speed pump,
but you still have to run it at some reasonable speed to
get enough water moved to do the filtering, so I don't
think it has much additional advantage with regard to speed
reduction. The variable speed pump may also be a little
more efficient in using electricity in general too.

Now, the downsides are that the variable speed pump
costs a lot more than a two speed pump. So much more
that it would take a long time to recover the difference.
And also, the variable speed motor has electronics,
something I'd prefer to stay away from, unless there is
a big benefit, particulalry in that environment. If the
two speed motor goes on you, they are readily available
from many motor companies for a couple hundred bucks.
The variable speed one is likely only available from the
pump manufacturer and you can check out what that
will cost......


Why a 2 speed pump? Why not just use a smaller pump and run it longer
on a timer. You are just looking for a 100-150% turnover each day.
That is the theory of the solar pool pump. They are typically only
1/2-3/4 HP but they run whenever the sun is shining.
In the summer, when sanitizing is the hardest the pump runs the most


You need the extra suction for your vacuum if you use one. Plus you turn
it on high during periods of high use.

I'm not certain a motor running longer on a lower speed is going to wear
out faster than a motor running on high speed. I'd think it would be the
other way around. Heat destroys engines and the higher the speed, the
faster the motor wears out.

On 12/11/2012 9:48 PM, gonjah wrote:

Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

It's what the guy at the pool store told me (independent, not Leslie's).
And it's not in his best interest to tell people that since the variable
speed pumps are much more expensive.

Someone here suggested getting a lower speed pump and running it longer,
and that would work. However at least in California there are some
regulations about pool pumps that require a two speed pump (though
nothing stops you from getting one from another state). Furthermore, the
pump must be set up so that the low speed is the default, and the high
speed operation doesn't occur automatically.

I think it's fine to buy a two speed pump and always run it at the lower
speed. This means buying a pump with a higher capacity than you might
otherwise need, but operating at the lower speed it will last longer.

Other states are passing similar laws. Arizona's took effect in 2012.
There doesn't seem to be any enforcement, but if you don't install the
pump yourself a pool equipment store won't do it for you. Ironically,
the pumps aren't illegal to sell (Leslie's had a pile of them) but they
won't install them.

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.

On 12/12/2012 2:24 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/11/2012 9:48 PM, gonjah wrote:

Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

It's what the guy at the pool store told me (independent, not Leslie's).
And it's not in his best interest to tell people that since the variable
speed pumps are much more expensive.

Someone here suggested getting a lower speed pump and running it longer,
and that would work. However at least in California there are some
regulations about pool pumps that require a two speed pump (though
nothing stops you from getting one from another state). Furthermore, the
pump must be set up so that the low speed is the default, and the high
speed operation doesn't occur automatically.

I think it's fine to buy a two speed pump and always run it at the lower
speed. This means buying a pump with a higher capacity than you might
otherwise need, but operating at the lower speed it will last longer.

Other states are passing similar laws. Arizona's took effect in 2012.
There doesn't seem to be any enforcement, but if you don't install the
pump yourself a pool equipment store won't do it for you. Ironically,
the pumps aren't illegal to sell (Leslie's had a pile of them) but they
won't install them.

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've heard
of this.

On Dec 12, 10:52*am, gonjah wrote:
On 12/12/2012 9:38 AM, wrote:





On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:50:00 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 12, 12:48 am, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 11:36 PM, sms wrote:

On 12/11/2012 4:47 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/11/2012 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0600, gonjah wrote:

Mine runs anywhere from 19 to 28 psi, but I
have a sand filter and a 2 hp pump

That sounds awful high to me. Mine is about 6-7 PSI with a clean
filter and if it gets to 10 I know I have a problem.
The solars add about 3 PSI when I am pumping water up there tho.

It sounds like your piping is too small or it has too many bends.

What filter medium are you using?

This is the only pool I've ever owned. The plumbing looks normal. Not
sure of the exact diameter but I think it's 2" reduced from 2.5 or 3".
at the pump outlet. That might account for the higher pressure.

Works fine. Simple system. Good pressure. Primes real fast. Sand filter
works well for being 29 y/o. The old 2.5 (maybe 3) hp pump ran on 2"
pipes but when they put the 2 hp motor in I think the pressure went up a
little. I figured it was because of the new housing.

When this pump gives out I'm getting a DC variable speed pump. I'm sold
on them and the city gives a rebate on them.

Those pumps have a very short lifetime. You're better off getting a two
speed regular pump. No real advantage to variable speed versus a
high/low speed pump.

Is this from personal experience? Are there some statistics out there
somewhere?

thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know of any statistics, but you can do the math
and the rest is common sense. *The big savings in
running a pool pump come from running it at lower speed.
It then takes longer to move the same amount of water,
but by decreasing the pump speed the power drops by
the cube of the speed. * You get that benefit with either
a two speed pump or a variable. *The variable may have
some more advantage in regard to speed because you
could slow it down even more than a two-speed pump,
but you still have to run it at some reasonable speed to
get enough water moved to do the filtering, so I don't
think it has much additional advantage with regard to speed
reduction. *The variable speed pump may also be a little
more efficient in using electricity in general too.

Now, the downsides are that the variable speed pump
costs a lot more than a two speed pump. *So much more
that it would take a long time to recover the difference.
And also, the variable speed motor has electronics,
something I'd prefer to stay away from, unless there is
a big benefit, particulalry in that environment. *If the
two speed motor goes on you, they are readily available
from many motor companies for a couple hundred bucks.
The variable speed one is likely only available from the
pump manufacturer and you can check out what that
will cost......

Why a 2 speed pump? Why not just use a smaller pump and run it longer
on a timer. You are just looking for a 100-150% turnover each day.
That is the theory of the solar pool pump. They are typically only
1/2-3/4 HP but they run whenever the sun is shining.
In the summer, when sanitizing is the hardest the pump runs the most

You need the extra suction for your vacuum if you use one. Plus you turn
it on high during periods of high use.

Also, in the part of the country where you close the
pool for winter, it typically takes several days of
filtering constantly to clean it up. Could take 4x
that at low speed. And how about backwashing?
Would low speed have enough umph to knock the
DE off the filter? Or when the pool chemistry is out
of whack, you have people wanting to use the pool,
you need to add chemicals and have them circulate
quickly.....







I'm not certain a motor running longer on a lower speed is going to wear
out faster than a motor running on high speed. I'd think it would be the
other way around. Heat destroys engines and the higher the speed, the
faster the motor wears out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for $410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle, there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.

On 12/13/2012 1:00 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for $410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle, there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.


Thanks again:

I do like those prices.

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

On 12/13/2012 11:06 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:00 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for $410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle, there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.


Thanks again:

I do like those prices.

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

If it were too slow, wouldn't the pool would still freeze? We don't have
freezes where I live so I don't know about that.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

The variable speed pumps are outrageously priced. Coupled with their
shorter service life I doubt if you'd ever see anything close to the
savings versus a two speed pump. I don't like all the timer controls
built into the pump either.

The manual for the Flotec pump is at
http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/39954.pdf. I don't know if
I'd put a waterproof toggle switch into the motor housing or run another
wire up to a switch in the timer box.

I think I'd buy it with an AMEX card to get 2x the warranty.

On 12/13/2012 1:14 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/13/2012 11:06 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:00 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've
heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for $410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle, there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.


Thanks again:

I do like those prices.

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

If it were too slow, wouldn't the pool would still freeze? We don't have
freezes where I live so I don't know about that.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

The variable speed pumps are outrageously priced. Coupled with their
shorter service life I doubt if you'd ever see anything close to the
savings versus a two speed pump. I don't like all the timer controls
built into the pump either.

The manual for the Flotec pump is at
http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/39954.pdf. I don't know if
I'd put a waterproof toggle switch into the motor housing or run another
wire up to a switch in the timer box.

I think I'd buy it with an AMEX card to get 2x the warranty.



Sounds like you have a plan. I just bought my pump about 2 years ago(?).
So I have awhile to think about it.

When it freezes here it's usually around midnight. So i have to turn it
on at bedtime. They are usually light freezes. Just enough to crack a
housing or multi-valve. A 2 speed would be a vast improvement.

I didn't know that about AMEX. Good idea.

On 12/13/2012 11:26 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:14 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/13/2012 11:06 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:00 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've
heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for $410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle, there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.


Thanks again:

I do like those prices.

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

If it were too slow, wouldn't the pool would still freeze? We don't have
freezes where I live so I don't know about that.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

The variable speed pumps are outrageously priced. Coupled with their
shorter service life I doubt if you'd ever see anything close to the
savings versus a two speed pump. I don't like all the timer controls
built into the pump either.

The manual for the Flotec pump is at
http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/39954.pdf. I don't know if
I'd put a waterproof toggle switch into the motor housing or run another
wire up to a switch in the timer box.

I think I'd buy it with an AMEX card to get 2x the warranty.



Sounds like you have a plan. I just bought my pump about 2 years ago(?).
So I have awhile to think about it.

When it freezes here it's usually around midnight. So i have to turn it
on at bedtime. They are usually light freezes. Just enough to crack a
housing or multi-valve. A 2 speed would be a vast improvement.

Intermatic does make an automatic freeze detector that turns on the
equipment at a temperature that you set
http://www.intermatic.com/en/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Specialty_Controls/Freeze_Protection_Controls/PF1100_Timer_Series/PF1102.aspx
and they also have a model that combines it with a timer.

On 12/13/2012 4:07 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:06:33 -0600, gonjah wrote:

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.



That is basically what the solar collector system does for you. The
only real "controller" is that it shuts down at a certain low voltage
where you would just have the motor sitting there humming. There is
no inverter.

A pool pump needs to be able to circulate 2x the volume of the pool per day.

For example, my pool is 40,000 gallons, so I need to circulate 80,000
gallons per day.

The solar pool pump I saw online is rated at 11,000 gallons per day, and
I'm sure that's based on the maximum sun day in June.

It's an interesting idea, but there's no free lunch. If you want a solar
pool pump the best thing to do is to install solar panels on your house
that put power back onto the grid and that generate enough electricity,
on average, so that you're not buying any power from the utility.

On 12/13/2012 6:36 PM, sms wrote:
On 12/13/2012 11:26 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:14 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/13/2012 11:06 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 12/13/2012 1:00 PM, SMS wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:00 PM, gonjah wrote:

snip

I noticed that Home Depot now sells pool pumps as well.



Thanks. I'll keep an ear out for more info. This is the first I've
heard
of this.

Home Depot sells the Sta-Rite Flotec FPT20515 1.5HP two speed pump for
$500, and it's legal for CA, AZ, and FL. Sears has it on sale for
$410,
plus you can get $35 more off with promo code
SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS which brings it down to $375. A 1.5HP
variable speed pump is about $900.

This isn't like a 30 speed bicycle versus a 3 speed bicycle,
there's no
real upside in having more than two speeds on a pool pump, and the
additional complexity and expense is undesirable.


Thanks again:

I do like those prices.

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

If it were too slow, wouldn't the pool would still freeze? We don't have
freezes where I live so I don't know about that.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

The variable speed pumps are outrageously priced. Coupled with their
shorter service life I doubt if you'd ever see anything close to the
savings versus a two speed pump. I don't like all the timer controls
built into the pump either.

The manual for the Flotec pump is at
http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/39954.pdf. I don't know if
I'd put a waterproof toggle switch into the motor housing or run another
wire up to a switch in the timer box.

I think I'd buy it with an AMEX card to get 2x the warranty.



Sounds like you have a plan. I just bought my pump about 2 years ago(?).
So I have awhile to think about it.

When it freezes here it's usually around midnight. So i have to turn it
on at bedtime. They are usually light freezes. Just enough to crack a
housing or multi-valve. A 2 speed would be a vast improvement.

Intermatic does make an automatic freeze detector that turns on the
equipment at a temperature that you set
http://www.intermatic.com/en/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Specialty_Controls/Freeze_Protection_Controls/PF1100_Timer_Series/PF1102.aspx
and they also have a model that combines it with a timer.


I need one of those.

On Dec 13, 7:36*pm, sms wrote:
On 12/13/2012 4:07 PM, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:06:33 -0600, gonjah wrote:

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

That is basically what the solar collector system does for you. The
only real "controller" is that it shuts down at a certain low voltage
where you would just have the motor sitting *there humming. There is
no inverter.

A pool pump needs to be able to circulate 2x the volume of the pool per day.

For example, my pool is 40,000 gallons, so I need to circulate 80,000
gallons per day.

I don't know where that rule came from. I though the
"general rule" was to circulate it once over. And I've run
pools where they circulated a lot less than even that with
no problems. It all depends on the particulars of the
pool, climate, if people are using it, debris getting in it,
etc.





The solar pool pump I saw online is rated at 11,000 gallons per day, and
I'm sure that's based on the maximum sun day in June.

It's an interesting idea, but there's no free lunch. If you want a solar
pool pump the best thing to do is to install solar panels on your house
that put power back onto the grid and that generate enough electricity,
on average, so that you're not buying any power from the utility.

That's pretty much my way of looking at it too. Instead of
screwing around with powering individual things, certainly
anything large like a pool pump, I think it's better to go with
the solar array back to the whole house/grid.

On 12/13/2012 8:14 PM, wrote:

That's pretty much my way of looking at it too. Instead of
screwing around with powering individual things, certainly
anything large like a pool pump, I think it's better to go with
the solar array back to the whole house/grid.

One other thing I noticed that's pretty insane is the cost of a 2 speed
timer controller.

The law basically says that the pump needs to run on low speed all the
time except you can manually turn it on high but when it completes the
cycle on high then the next cycle will be at low speed unless you again
manually turn it on high.

"The default circulation speed shall be the lowest speed, with a
high-speed override capability for a temporary period not to exceed one
normal cycle."

An existing timer could be used with the addition of one 240VAC DPDT
relay (Dayton 5X848 or equivalent,
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GBNUR2) plus a momentary contact SPST
switch. When the relay is not energized the hot wire is connected to the
low speed terminal of the motor, and when you push the button the relay
latches closed and the hot wire is connected to the high speed terminal
of the motor and stays closed until the timer cycle is over.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2dbjms8.jpg.

The pool pump manufacturers, the timer manufacturers, and the pool
stores appear to view the new laws as a way to sell needlessly expensive
equipment.

But given the tendency for some people to always, automatically, choose
the highest operating speed, or highest temperature, I think that a
system that requires manually setting the motor to high speed each cycle
isn't a bad idea.

On 12/15/2012 10:34 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:36:30 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/13/2012 4:07 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:06:33 -0600, gonjah wrote:

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.



That is basically what the solar collector system does for you. The
only real "controller" is that it shuts down at a certain low voltage
where you would just have the motor sitting there humming. There is
no inverter.

A pool pump needs to be able to circulate 2x the volume of the pool per day.

For example, my pool is 40,000 gallons, so I need to circulate 80,000
gallons per day.

The solar pool pump I saw online is rated at 11,000 gallons per day, and
I'm sure that's based on the maximum sun day in June.

It's an interesting idea, but there's no free lunch. If you want a solar
pool pump the best thing to do is to install solar panels on your house
that put power back onto the grid and that generate enough electricity,
on average, so that you're not buying any power from the utility.




One of the reasons I want a solar pump is to run the pool pump when
the power is out.
You can go a long way towards living without A/C if the pool is blue.

A solar pool pump setup is also a lot cheaper than setting up a grid
tied system. You still get the federal tax credit


Do you have a kit in mind or is it going to be a self assembled project?
The one's I've seen had inverters.

I've seen some of those floating solar filters but I don't know if the
filter working on the surface would be adequate, and at $700+, I don't
want to gamble to find out. It might work well enough to keep the pool
clean during the off season though.

On Dec 15, 11:34*am, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:36:30 -0800, sms
wrote:





On 12/13/2012 4:07 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:06:33 -0600, gonjah wrote:

The advantage of a DC is you can turn it down WAY low and let it run
constantly like during a freeze. We don't empty our pools here.

But you're right, it's usually a fine line between up front costs and
overall savings. With pumps running $1600 it's real hard to recoup the
difference.

That is basically what the solar collector system does for you. The
only real "controller" is that it shuts down at a certain low voltage
where you would just have the motor sitting *there humming. There is
no inverter.

A pool pump needs to be able to circulate 2x the volume of the pool per day.

For example, my pool is 40,000 gallons, so I need to circulate 80,000
gallons per day.

The solar pool pump I saw online is rated at 11,000 gallons per day, and
I'm sure that's based on the maximum sun day in June.

It's an interesting idea, but there's no free lunch. If you want a solar
pool pump the best thing to do is to install solar panels on your house
that put power back onto the grid and that generate enough electricity,
on average, so that you're not buying any power from the utility.

One of the reasons I want a solar pump is to run the pool pump when
the power is out.
You can go a long way towards living without A/C if the pool is blue.

A solar pool pump setup is also a lot cheaper than setting up a grid
tied system. You still get the federal tax credit- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I guess that depends where you live. Here in the Peoples
Republic of NJ, if the system is grid tied the state gives you
buckoo bucks every year. They set a min amount of power
that the utilities have to provide that comes from renewable.
If you have a solar array that powers your house, ALL the
electricity it produces, whether you consume it or send it
to the grid, counts toward that renewable metric for the
utility. So, there is an auction periodically that sets the
price for those credits. The utility then pays it's solar
customers for whatever total amount of electricity their
array generated. For a typical home array, it's been as high
as several thousand dollars a year. If you just have a
solar pump that runs your pool, you would lose out on
all that money.

On 12/15/2012 8:34 AM, wrote:

One of the reasons I want a solar pump is to run the pool pump when
the power is out.
You can go a long way towards living without A/C if the pool is blue.

When the weather is that hot a solar pool pump that's pumping only a few
thousand gallons a day is not going to do much in terms of keeping the
pool blue. If it did, everyone would be putting in very small pumps on
their pools.

You're better off buying a small gasoline powered pump for those
emergencies and hooking it up in parallel to your electric pump. $250
from Tractor Supply. At least it will actually keep the pool blue.

The solar pump I saw costs $700 and pumps "up to 11,000 gallons per day"
which probably means about 5000 gallons per day. At 5000 gallons per day
it would take eight days for my pool to recirculate the water once.

Solar is great, but for hot water heating and for generating electricity
for the grid when you have $10,000 worth of panels on your roof.

On 12/15/2012 8:45 AM, gonjah wrote:

I've seen some of those floating solar filters but I don't know if the
filter working on the surface would be adequate, and at $700+, I don't
want to gamble to find out. It might work well enough to keep the pool
clean during the off season though.

In the off-season I get a lot of leaves in the pool and I'm cleaning the
skimmer basket a lot. Those solar pumps might be okay in a very small
pool, like 12,000 gallons or so. The price is way too high. If I had an
emergency and needed to filter the water during a prolonged blackout I'd
use a gasoline powered pump.

On 12/15/2012 7:00 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:45:48 -0800, SMS
wrote:

On 12/15/2012 8:34 AM, wrote:

One of the reasons I want a solar pump is to run the pool pump when
the power is out.
You can go a long way towards living without A/C if the pool is blue.

When the weather is that hot a solar pool pump that's pumping only a few
thousand gallons a day is not going to do much in terms of keeping the
pool blue. If it did, everyone would be putting in very small pumps on
their pools.

You're better off buying a small gasoline powered pump for those
emergencies and hooking it up in parallel to your electric pump. $250
from Tractor Supply. At least it will actually keep the pool blue.

The solar pump I saw costs $700 and pumps "up to 11,000 gallons per day"
which probably means about 5000 gallons per day. At 5000 gallons per day
it would take eight days for my pool to recirculate the water once.

Solar is great, but for hot water heating and for generating electricity
for the grid when you have $10,000 worth of panels on your roof.

This is a pretty hefty pump, typically 3/4 HP running 14 hours a day
in the summer. That is more water than most people pump.


I like the idea but I'd like to see the details of the plan and how much
it's going to cost.

Do you have any schematics? Is it a kit or are you buying the parts a la
carte?

On 12/15/2012 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:45:48 -0800, SMS
wrote:

On 12/15/2012 8:34 AM, wrote:

One of the reasons I want a solar pump is to run the pool pump when
the power is out.
You can go a long way towards living without A/C if the pool is blue.

When the weather is that hot a solar pool pump that's pumping only a few
thousand gallons a day is not going to do much in terms of keeping the
pool blue. If it did, everyone would be putting in very small pumps on
their pools.

You're better off buying a small gasoline powered pump for those
emergencies and hooking it up in parallel to your electric pump. $250
from Tractor Supply. At least it will actually keep the pool blue.

The solar pump I saw costs $700 and pumps "up to 11,000 gallons per day"
which probably means about 5000 gallons per day. At 5000 gallons per day
it would take eight days for my pool to recirculate the water once.

Solar is great, but for hot water heating and for generating electricity
for the grid when you have $10,000 worth of panels on your roof.

This is a pretty hefty pump, typically 3/4 HP running 14 hours a day
in the summer. That is more water than most people pump.

I think we're talking about different solar pumps. Do you have a link
for the one you're talking about?

The one I saw is at http://www.floridasolarpump.com/ which clearly is
insufficient for a pool in the summer in Florida. A 55W pump is not
going to pump enough water.