It seems that every once awhile some uniform prospective buyers are giving wrong information on efficiency of Air
Condition systems. Let me inject piece of my mind on efficiency of any Refrigeration unit, Air-Condition or Low
temperature equipment. I will estimate and go on lame to say that 80% of efficiency comes from Condenser the other 20%
is in compression ratio at which compressor operates. Because R-410 operating at much higher pressures, compressors it
self pumping ratio is reduced, there for compressor efficiency is increased, not only that but compression ratio playing
large part in life expectancy of compressor itself. For this to be achieved condenser must have adequate proper ratings
to get ready of heat generated by compressors pump. From my 40 years in field I have found just about on all older
system condensers "are" under size, why well it is lot chipper to manufacture. By switching to new systems, gains are
almost immediately noticeable. Remember the efficiency does not come from Refrigerant; efficiency is increased because
compressor is running at much lower compression ratio. Efficiency come from system at hole and not from Refrigerant
alone or Compressor. We are going in winter we are not need of AC but every one should keep in mind that spring will be
here soon enough, make sure that your condensers are clean from debris and not blocked for free air circulation.

On Nov 29, 6:27*pm, "Grumpy" wrote:
It seems that every once awhile some uniform prospective buyers are giving wrong information on efficiency of Air
Condition systems. Let me inject piece of my mind on efficiency of any Refrigeration unit, Air-Condition or Low
temperature equipment. I will estimate and go on lame to say that 80% of efficiency comes from Condenser the other 20%
is in compression ratio at which compressor operates. Because R-410 operating at much higher pressures, compressors it
self pumping ratio is reduced, there for compressor efficiency is increased, not only that but compression ratio playing
large part in life expectancy of compressor itself. For this to be achieved condenser must have adequate proper ratings
to get ready of heat generated by compressors pump. From my 40 years in field I have found just about on all older
system condensers "are" under size, why well it is lot chipper to manufacture. By switching to new systems, gains are
almost immediately noticeable. Remember the efficiency does not come from Refrigerant; efficiency is increased because
compressor is running at much lower compression ratio. Efficiency come from system at hole and not from Refrigerant
alone or Compressor. *We are going in winter we are not need of AC but every one should keep in mind that spring will be
here soon enough, make sure that your condensers are clean from debris and not blocked for free air circulation.

There is no such thing as "efficiency " for ANY heat pump.
There is a Coefficient Of Performance, a different thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

On Nov 30, 4:21*am, harry wrote:
On Nov 29, 6:27*pm, "Grumpy" wrote:

It seems that every once awhile some uniform prospective buyers are giving wrong information on efficiency of Air
Condition systems. Let me inject piece of my mind on efficiency of any Refrigeration unit, Air-Condition or Low
temperature equipment. I will estimate and go on lame to say that 80% of efficiency comes from Condenser the other 20%
is in compression ratio at which compressor operates. Because R-410 operating at much higher pressures, compressors it
self pumping ratio is reduced, there for compressor efficiency is increased, not only that but compression ratio playing
large part in life expectancy of compressor itself. For this to be achieved condenser must have adequate proper ratings
to get ready of heat generated by compressors pump. From my 40 years in field I have found just about on all older
system condensers "are" under size, why well it is lot chipper to manufacture. By switching to new systems, gains are
almost immediately noticeable. Remember the efficiency does not come from Refrigerant; efficiency is increased because
compressor is running at much lower compression ratio. Efficiency come from system at hole and not from Refrigerant
alone or Compressor. *We are going in winter we are not need of AC but every one should keep in mind that spring will be
here soon enough, make sure that your condensers are clean from debris and not blocked for free air circulation.

There is no such thing as "efficiency " for ANY heat pump.
There is a Coefficient Of Performance, a different thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

Wrong again. Actually there is such a thing. In the USA
all such systems have a Seasonal Energy Efficiency Rating
which is a key spec listed on every system. It's a guide to
how much cooling cooling you get for the amount of electric
power consumed. A higher SEER system is more efficient.

I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message news:30ed933a-0039-4ec7-9eb6-

In the USA all such systems have a Seasonal
Energy Efficiency Rating which is a key spec
listed on every system. It's a guide to how
much cooling cooling you get for the amount
of electric power consumed. A higher SEER
system is more efficient.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:21:27 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 29, 6:27Â*pm, "Grumpy" wrote:
It seems that every once awhile some uniform prospective buyers are giving wrong information on efficiency of Air
Condition systems. Let me inject piece of my mind on efficiency of any Refrigeration unit, Air-Condition or Low
temperature equipment. I will estimate and go on lame to say that 80% of efficiency comes from Condenser the other 20%
is in compression ratio at which compressor operates. Because R-410 operating at much higher pressures, compressors it
self pumping ratio is reduced, there for compressor efficiency is increased, not only that but compression ratio playing
large part in life expectancy of compressor itself. For this to be achieved condenser must have adequate proper ratings
to get ready of heat generated by compressors pump. From my 40 years in field I have found just about on all older
system condensers "are" under size, why well it is lot chipper to manufacture. By switching to new systems, gains are
almost immediately noticeable. Remember the efficiency does not come from Refrigerant; efficiency is increased because
compressor is running at much lower compression ratio. Efficiency come from system at hole and not from Refrigerant
alone or Compressor. Â*We are going in winter we are not need of AC but every one should keep in mind that spring will be
here soon enough, make sure that your condensers are clean from debris and not blocked for free air circulation.

There is no such thing as "efficiency " for ANY heat pump.
There is a Coefficient Of Performance, a different thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
And Harry misses it again. What does SEER stand for?????

AND, Clare MISSES it again, TRADER4 posted that INFORMATION today.

[----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 7:36 AM
Subject: Your home AC prep for somer]

Christopher A. YOUNG
Learn MORE about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

And Harry misses it again. What does SEER stand for?????

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:21:50 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

AND, Clare MISSES it again, TRADER4 posted that INFORMATION today.

[----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 7:36 AM
Subject: Your home AC prep for somer]

Christopher A. YOUNG
Learn MORE about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
.. .

And Harry misses it again. What does SEER stand for?????


Yes he did - but it did not appear on my newsreader until after I had
posted. So I didn't miss it - just got it late.

On Nov 30, 1:21*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure *the new unit was more efficient.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message news:30ed933a-0039-4ec7-9eb6-

*In the USA all such systems have a Seasonal
Energy Efficiency Rating which is a key spec
listed on every system. *It's a guide to how
much cooling cooling you get for the amount
of electric power consumed. *A higher SEER
system is more efficient.

No, not more efficient. The extra energy does not arise from
converting electricity to heat.
The "extra" output heat energy is not created from another sort of
energy, it is transferred.

So all the electricity put into the system is converted to heat
regardless. (100% efficient in all cases.)
The extra heat is transferred through the system.

On Nov 30, 1:21*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure *the new unit was more efficient.


No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

On Dec 1, 2:09*am, harry wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:21*pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure *the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

Google SEER moron and tell us what the second E stands for.
The efficiency being measured is how much COLD you get
for a given amount of electricity put into the system. COP is
one such measure. In fact the root, "efficient" appears in
"coefficient" of performance too.

On Dec 1, 1:17*pm, "
wrote:
On Dec 1, 2:09*am, harry wrote:









On Nov 30, 1:21*pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure *the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

Google SEER moron and tell us what the second E stands for.
The efficiency being measured is how much COLD you get
*for a given amount of electricity put into the system. *COP is
one such measure. *In fact the root, "efficient" appears in
"coefficient" of performance too.

I assume it's for the benefit of ignorant USAians who were never
educated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance.

The unit I replaced, was using electricity to move
refrigerant, used for air conditioning. I didn't
get any numbers, but I'm sure the new unit was
much more efficient.

You, Harry, are describing filament heaters.

Who didn't understand the technology, Harry?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Dec 1, 2:09 am, harry wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:21 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

Harry is talking about filament heaters. I'm
talking about air conditioning. Perhaps Trader
and I can agree that Harry doesn't understand
the technology?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...


The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

Google SEER moron and tell us what the second E stands for.
The efficiency being measured is how much COLD you get
for a given amount of electricity put into the system. COP is
one such measure. In fact the root, "efficient" appears in
"coefficient" of performance too.

On Dec 1, 12:57*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Harry is talking about filament heaters. I'm
talking about air conditioning. Perhaps Trader
and I can agree that Harry doesn't understand
the technology?

Harry has proven time and time again that he doesn't
know his backside from a hole in the ground. The
best part on this one is he's running around saying
there is no such thing as efficiency of an AC unit.
Then he cites "coefficient of performance". What
root does "coefficient" come from? answer: efficient
COP is one measure, SEER is another.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 23:09:28 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 30, 1:21Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure Â*the new unit was more efficient.


No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.
There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.



Other ratings for HVAC equipment a EER (energy efficiency Ratio)
and HSPF (Heating Season PerformanceFactor) and , yes, COP
(Coefficient ofPerformance).

****The Coefficient of Performance - COP - is the ratio of heat output
to the amount of energy input of a heat pump.
COP can be expressed as

COP = hh / hw (1)

where

COP = Coefficient of Performance

hh = heat produced (Btu/h)

hw = equivalent electric energy input (Btu/h) = 3413 Pw

where

Pw = electrical input energy (W)

If a heat pump delivers 3 units of heat for every unit of energy input
- the COP is 3.

€¢1 kW = 1000 W = 3413 Btu/h

**Example - COP Heat Pump
*Cooling Cycle
A heat pump delivering 60000 Btu/h with a total input of 9 kW:

COP = 60000 (Btu/h) / (3413 9 (kW))

= 1.95

*Heating Cycle
A heat pump delivering 50000 Btu/h with a total input of 7 kW:

COP = 50000 (Btu/h) / (3413 7 (kW))

= 2.1




****The Energy Efficiency Ratio - EER - measures the cooling
efficiency of a heat pump.

EER can be expressed as

EER = hc / Pw (2)

where

EER = Energy Efficiency Rating

hc = cooling heat (Btu/h)

Pw = electrical power (W)

***Example - EER
An air conditioner or heat pump in cooling modus draws 1000 W to
produce 10000 Btu/h cooling. The EER can be calculated as

EER = 10000 (Btu/h) / 1000 (W)

= 10


****The Heating Season Performance Factor - HSPF - is a measure of the
overall heating efficiency of a heat pump during a season.

HSPF = hs / 1000 Pws (3)

where

hs = heat produced during the season (Btu)

Pws = electrical power consumed during the season (kWh)

The HSPF can be regarded as an "average" COP for an entire heating
season. It is common to compare BTUs of heat output to watts of
electrical energy input. HSPF of 6.8 can be compared with an average
COP of 2 and a HSPF in the range of 5-7 is acceptable.

***Example - Heat Pump Heating Season Performance Factor
For a heat pump delivering 120,000,000 Btu during the season when
consuming 15,000 kWh the HSPF can be calculated as

HSPF = 120000000 (Btu) / (1000 15000 (kWh))

= 8


****Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio is a measure of the seasonal
cooling efficiency of a heat pump or a consumer central air
conditioning system. Basically EER factored over the entire cooling
season.

On Dec 1, 1:49*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 23:09:28 -0800 (PST), harry





wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:21*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure *the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

* There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. *The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY * (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
*a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.

Other ratings for HVAC equipment a EER (energy efficiency Ratio)
and HSPF (Heating Season PerformanceFactor) and , yes, COP
(Coefficient ofPerformance).

****The Coefficient of Performance - COP - is the ratio of heat output
to the amount of energy input of a heat pump.
COP can be expressed as

COP = hh / hw * * * * (1)

where

COP = Coefficient of Performance

hh = heat produced (Btu/h)

hw = equivalent electric energy input (Btu/h) = 3413 Pw

where

Pw = electrical input energy (W)

If a heat pump delivers 3 units of heat for every unit of energy input
- the COP is 3.

•1 kW = 1000 W = 3413 Btu/h

**Example - COP Heat Pump
*Cooling Cycle
A heat pump delivering 60000 Btu/h with a total input of 9 kW:

COP = 60000 (Btu/h) / (3413 9 (kW))

* * * *= 1.95

*Heating Cycle
A heat pump delivering 50000 Btu/h with a total input of 7 kW:

COP = 50000 (Btu/h) / (3413 7 (kW))

* * * *= 2.1

****The Energy Efficiency Ratio - EER - measures the cooling
efficiency of a heat pump.

EER can be expressed as

EER = hc / Pw * * * * (2)

where

EER = Energy Efficiency Rating

hc = cooling heat (Btu/h)

Pw = electrical power (W)

***Example - EER
An air conditioner or heat pump in cooling modus draws 1000 W to
produce 10000 Btu/h cooling. The EER can be calculated as

EER = 10000 (Btu/h) / 1000 (W)

* * = 10

****The Heating Season Performance Factor - HSPF - is a measure of the
overall heating efficiency of a heat pump during a season.

HSPF = hs / 1000 Pws * * (3)

where

hs = heat produced during the season (Btu)

Pws = electrical power consumed during the season (kWh)

The HSPF can be regarded as an "average" COP for an entire heating
season. It is common to compare BTUs of heat output to watts of
electrical energy input. HSPF of 6.8 can be compared with an average
COP of 2 and a HSPF in the range of 5-7 is acceptable.

***Example - Heat Pump Heating Season Performance Factor
For a heat pump delivering 120,000,000 Btu during the season when
consuming 15,000 kWh the HSPF can be calculated as

HSPF = 120000000 (Btu) / (1000 15000 (kWh))

* * * *= 8

****Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio is a measure of the seasonal
cooling efficiency of a heat pump or a consumer central air
conditioning system. Basically EER factored over the entire cooling
season.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Ain't all that just a long way of saying that harry
is a big dummy?

If memory serves, the OP, Grumpy, said to keep
leaves away from the outdoor unit.

As for me, the outdoor unit I replaced was pretty
ancient. The new one was much quieter, and I
believe far less current draw.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.


No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.
There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.

He may well have a lot of talents, in other
field. But, on this list, he hasn't done well.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Ain't all that just a long way of saying that harry
is a big dummy?

On Dec 1, 5:56*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The unit I replaced, was using electricity to move
refrigerant, used for air conditioning. *I didn't
get any numbers, but I'm sure the new unit was
much more efficient.

You, Harry, are describing filament heaters.

Who didn't understand the technology, Harry?


It makes no difference whether it's an absorption or compressor
system. The principle remains.

And absorption systems are pretty useless.

On Dec 1, 10:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
If memory serves, the OP, Grumpy, said to keep
leaves away from the outdoor unit.

As for me, the outdoor unit I replaced was pretty
ancient. The new one was much quieter, and I
believe far less current draw.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...









I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

* There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. *The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY * (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
*a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.

The OP is another American Idiot.
There is no difference in principle between any sort of compressor,
scroll/reciprocating/rotary. They all do the same thing. Some are
cheaper/more compact/last longer than others.
But all the electricity they use ends up as heat and is therefore 100%
efficient. (As it is in an absorption system too)
No other heat is created/can be created, it is merely moved around. So
no efficiency is involved.

Read the link in the previous post and try to comprehend.

The COP is limited by the temperature difference indoor/outdoor and
the refrigerant gas, assuming correct installation..

And there is no difference between heating and cooling roles.
Any apparent difference is caused by the size of the heat exchangers
installed. (Evaporator/condensor)

On Dec 2, 2:05*am, harry wrote:
On Dec 1, 10:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"





wrote:
If memory serves, the OP, Grumpy, said to keep
leaves away from the outdoor unit.

As for me, the outdoor unit I replaced was pretty
ancient. The new one was much quieter, and I
believe far less current draw.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

.. .

I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

* There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. *The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY * (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
*a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.

The OP is another American Idiot.
There is no difference in principle between any sort of compressor,
scroll/reciprocating/rotary. *They all do the same thing. Some are
cheaper/more compact/last *longer than others.
But all the electricity they use ends up as heat and is therefore 100%
efficient.

But anyone with a brain isn't interested in the heat
that's wasted. We're interested in how much cooling
we get compared to how much electricity is used.
With the old system Stormin was talking about,
we might get 40,000BTUs/hr using $1 of electricity.
Replace it with a newer, higher efficiency system,
and we get 40,000BTU/hr using only $.70 The new
system is more efficient at producing cooling.
Capiche?



(As it is in an absorption system too)
No other heat is created/can be created, it is merely moved around. So
no efficiency is involved.

Read the link in the previous post and try to comprehend.

The COP is limited *by the temperature difference indoor/outdoor and
the refrigerant gas, assuming correct installation..

Coefficient of Performance is one measure of efficiency.
In fact the word "coefficient" is derived from the root
"efficient. Have you Googled SEER, as requested?
What is the third word? EFFICIENCY

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 23:05:46 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:11Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
If memory serves, the OP, Grumpy, said to keep
leaves away from the outdoor unit.

As for me, the outdoor unit I replaced was pretty
ancient. The new one was much quieter, and I
believe far less current draw.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...









I helped change an outdoor unit, maybe ten years ago.
The old one coming out was a heat pump unit with
a piston compressor. We put in AC outdoor unit with
new rotary scroll compressor. The customer remarked
how quiet it was. The old unit, so noisy you could hardly
be outdoors when it was running. I arrived after the old
unit died, so I didn't get to take amp draw reading. I'm
sure the new unit was more efficient.

No it wasn't.
In all cases, all the electricity was converted to heat.
All electricityheat conversions are 100% efficient.

The coefficient of performance may have been better.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

Â* There is more than one way to measure or define efficiency. SEER is
Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio - and is THE accepted measurement for
air conditioning. Â*The subject is "your home AC prop for somer
(mis-spelled)" - so EFFICIENCY Â* (SEER) is correct.
And SEER IS also the accepted rating for COOLING efficiency of heat
pumps.

The OPsaid he replaced the heat pump with an " AC outdoor unit with
Â*a new rotary scroll compressor. " - not a heat pump so any of the
accepted ratings would be correct.

The OP is another American Idiot.

And you, sir, are thick-skilled and arguementative.

when one is attempting to do anything other than heat, conversion of
electricity to heat lowers the efficiency of the "machine" or "system"
- and when running an external compressor as a heat pump, any heat
produced by the compressor and motor which is located outside the
insulated envelope you are attemptintg to heat is a TOTAL LOSS, and
therefore reduces the efficiency of the system. If you believe
otherwise, YOU are the "non-american" idiot. Sorry, but I have to
call a spade a spade.
There is no difference in principle between any sort of compressor,
scroll/reciprocating/rotary. They all do the same thing. Some are
cheaper/more compact/last longer than others.
But all the electricity they use ends up as heat and is therefore 100%
efficient. (As it is in an absorption system too)
No other heat is created/can be created, it is merely moved around. So
no efficiency is involved.

Read the link in the previous post and try to comprehend.

The COP is limited by the temperature difference indoor/outdoor and
the refrigerant gas, assuming correct installation..

And there is no difference between heating and cooling roles.
Any apparent difference is caused by the size of the heat exchangers
installed. (Evaporator/condensor)

And you, sir, are thick-skilled and arguementative.

when one is attempting to do anything other than heat, conversion of
electricity to heat lowers the efficiency of the "machine" or "system"
- and when running an external compressor as a heat pump, any heat
produced by the compressor and motor which is located outside the
insulated envelope you are attemptintg to heat is a TOTAL LOSS, and
therefore reduces the efficiency of the system. *If you believe
otherwise, YOU are the "non-american" idiot. *Sorry, but I have to
call a spade a spade.







There is no difference in principle between any sort of compressor,
scroll/reciprocating/rotary. *They all do the same thing. Some are
cheaper/more compact/last *longer than others.
But all the electricity they use ends up as heat and is therefore 100%
efficient. (As it is in an absorption system too)
No other heat is created/can be created, it is merely moved around. So
no efficiency is involved.

Read the link in the previous post and try to comprehend.

The COP is limited *by the temperature difference indoor/outdoor and
the refrigerant gas, assuming correct installation..

And there is no difference between heating and cooling roles.
Any apparent difference is caused by the size of the heat exchangers
installed. (Evaporator/condensor)

I know your English is poor but read the link I posted and try to
understand.

If you put a gallon of petrol in your car you might get out 7% of
useful energy.
Efficiency =7%

If you put a gallon of oil in your heating system, you might get 75%
of available energy as heat out of it.
Efficiency =75%

If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

So this is not a matter of efficiency.
Is this hard to understand?

On Dec 3, 1:55*am, harry wrote:
And you, sir, are thick-skilled and arguementative.

when one is attempting to do anything other than heat, conversion of
electricity to heat lowers the efficiency of the "machine" or "system"
- and when running an external compressor as a heat pump, any heat
produced by the compressor and motor which is located outside the
insulated envelope you are attemptintg to heat is a TOTAL LOSS, and
therefore reduces the efficiency of the system. *If you believe
otherwise, YOU are the "non-american" idiot. *Sorry, but I have to
call a spade a spade.

There is no difference in principle between any sort of compressor,
scroll/reciprocating/rotary. *They all do the same thing. Some are
cheaper/more compact/last *longer than others.
But all the electricity they use ends up as heat and is therefore 100%
efficient. (As it is in an absorption system too)
No other heat is created/can be created, it is merely moved around. So
no efficiency is involved.

Read the link in the previous post and try to comprehend.

The COP is limited *by the temperature difference indoor/outdoor and
the refrigerant gas, assuming correct installation..

And there is no difference between heating and cooling roles.
Any apparent difference is caused by the size of the heat exchangers
installed. (Evaporator/condensor)

I know your English is poor but read the link I posted and try to
understand.

If you put a gallon of petrol in your car you might get out 7% of
useful energy.
Efficiency =7%

If you put a gallon of oil in your heating system, you might get 75%
of available energy as heat out of it.
Efficiency =75%

If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.



So this is not a matter of efficiency.
Is this hard to understand?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not hard to understand, but clearly you do not.
Let's say you have two heat pump systems to evaluate one
at a time. They are connected to provide cooling to a room.
You put 1Kwh of electricity into each. System A gives you
1BTU of cooling. System B gives you 1.5 BTU of
cooling. System B provides 50% more cooling for the
same electricity used. System B is 50% more efficient
at generating cooling from electricity.

It really is that simple. That is precisely what Stormin
was talking about. It's precisely what all the SEER
ratings on systems are about. You have Googled "SEER"
by now, haven't you? What word does the second
E come from?

But, I'll go one better than that. SEER is in the USA,
so let's take a look at the UK, where you live, right?
What the hell is this:


http://www.which.co.uk/energy/saving...ciency-labels/


Products carrying an EU energy efficiency label
Washing machines, washer-dryers and tumble dryers
Fridges, freezers and fridge freezers
Dishwashers
Electric ovens
Energy-saving light bulbs
Air conditioners

An EU energy label can give you a good at-a-glance evaluation of how
energy efficient a product is.


Or how about this, from datasheets from some of those beloved
mini-splits that hang out like warts, all over the place and adorn the
facade of those UK homes:

http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Luna-High...-pr-38347.html

The Electronic Expansion Valve (EEV) makes the refrigerant volume
reasonable in the air conditioner system, which optimises the use of
the heat exchanger and improves energy efficiency.


http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Aircon-Lo...-pr-38192.html
Powered by TOSHIBA Compressors - energy efficiency 'A' rating - these
systems are nearly as energy efficient as inverter systems.

But it gets even better than that. Turns out the UK has a very
similar
rating to SEER. It's ESEER. The first "E" stands for European. We
all know what the third E stands for....

Sure seems like a lot there about energy efficiency, eh harry?
Which makes you, yet again, the village idiot.

A heat pump can move more BTU than the
same energy used in filament heaters. With a
high efficiency compressor, even more heat
moved.

BTW, what is "somer"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
On Dec 3, 1:55 am, harry wrote:

If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.

On Dec 3, 3:22*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
A heat pump can move more BTU than the
same energy used in filament heaters. With a
high efficiency compressor, even more heat
moved.

BTW, what is "somer"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
On Dec 3, 1:55 am, harry wrote:



If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.

So the fact it does means it's nothing to do with efficiency.
Just physics.
No energy is being converted. It's just being shifted around.

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 3, 3:22*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
A heat pump can move more BTU than the
same energy used in filament heaters. With a
high efficiency compressor, even more heat
moved.

BTW, what is "somer"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
On Dec 3, 1:55 am, harry wrote:



If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.

So the fact it does means it's nothing to do with efficiency.
Just physics.
No energy is being converted. It's just being shifted around.

Bloomin' idiot. By your "logic" everything is 100% efficient, making
the word completely meaningless.

I'm wrong about you
You're wrong about me
we're as stupid as can be
with a great big mistake
from me to you
won't you say you'll screw up.... to......

EVERYBODY SING!
YOU KNOW THE MUSIC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq734_nZ7Eo

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...


So the fact it does means it's nothing to do with efficiency.
Just physics.
No energy is being converted. It's just being shifted around.

Bloomin' idiot. By your "logic" everything is 100% efficient, making
the word completely meaningless.

On Dec 4, 11:31*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:22 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
A heat pump can move more BTU than the
same energy used in filament heaters. With a
high efficiency compressor, even more heat
moved.

BTW, what is "somer"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

....
On Dec 3, 1:55 am, harry wrote:

If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.

So the fact it does means it's nothing to do with efficiency.
Just physics.
No energy is being converted. It's just being shifted around.

Bloomin' idiot. *By your "logic" everything is 100% efficient, making
the word completely meaningless.

Are you a hillbilly?
Your knowledge of elementary physics seem to point to it.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:37:43 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 4, 11:31*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:22 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
A heat pump can move more BTU than the
same energy used in filament heaters. With a
high efficiency compressor, even more heat
moved.

BTW, what is "somer"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
On Dec 3, 1:55 am, harry wrote:

If you put in one KWh of electricity into a heat pump, you might get
out four KWh.
So all the heat is not coming from the electricity, clearly you can't
get out more than you put in.

No one ever said you did.

So the fact it does means it's nothing to do with efficiency.
Just physics.
No energy is being converted. It's just being shifted around.

Bloomin' idiot. *By your "logic" everything is 100% efficient, making
the word completely meaningless.

Are you a hillbilly?
Your knowledge of elementary physics seem to point to it.

Sorry, dimwit, you wouldn't know physics if it bit your sorry limey
ass. Obviously.