"When Everything Falls Apart, I Know Where To Go"

You have probably heard this from a friend or acquaint-
ance that has learned of your preps. The big question is:
what was your response?

The US public carries a mentality of entitlement that
concerns and worries preppers. This attitude of being
owed a living has mainly been instilled by the politicians.
In just the last two generations, the safety net is being
used by many as a sleepy hammock.

But in the words of Alexis De Tocquiville "It's not an
endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to
education, the "right" to health care, the "right" to
food and housing. That's not freedom, that's
dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the
rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle."

With the advent of the "just in time" delivery, the
societal helplessness got much worse. Easy Credit and
the Instant Gratification mantras have bred a generation
of bawling, self-indulgent brats. The whims and desires
of the masses are catered to by a very intricate structure
that is very fragile at best.

People have pointed out this Achilles Heel many, many,
times. The few who heed the warnings are ridiculed,
marginalized or demonized. Our overextended and under
maintained national infrastructure ages and deteriorates.
Failures occur. Locallly, then regional, and some day
national. The more intricate, complex and interconnected
the system becomes, the more prone it is to failure or
sabotage. A storm can wipe out power, food, and fuel
for weeks at a time.

The US public has the idea that the government will
take care of them. It is a seductive lie and it is a mortal
trap. Our government is more concerned with its own
survival, not mine. I do not trust that it will come to my
rescue during a major disaster or act of war. If they do
come, they will be heavy handed, and will force me to
do what I do not want to do. Like leave my refuge, get
on the truck, and go to a concentration camp.

Hurricane Katrina was an example of the total
breakdown of that support system. More than a
year since the storm, many parts areas are still a
disaster, still without drinkable water, without
functioning waste treatment and without electricity.
The people have placed their total faith in a belief
that the local and Federal governments would step
in and save them, in many cases this was a fatal
mistake.

With a disaster of that magnitude there was no way
the governments would have the power to fix every
thing, even though they wanted to. Besides, the State
has no obligation to protect people in the first place.

So where does this leave those that have wisely chosen
to prepare for themselves? The answer is in a very tight
spot. The mentality of entitlement says that they are
entitled to any thing that you have simply because they
are needy, and you "unfairly" have stuff. The question
is what do you do?

The answers are just as difficult as the question.
Turning away people in need is offensive to our
cultural traditions, but in time of crisis it can
become a necessary evil.

One friend remembers having neighbors coming
to their door during a particularly bad snow storm
demanding food because they, the neighbors knew
that the family was Mormon and abided by the one
year of food storage edict.

Timothy 5:8 of the Christian New Testament states
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith,
and is worse than an infidel." However, far too many
"Sunday Christians" ignore this passage and glom
onto the parts about "feeding the sheep". They
profess to be "helpless" and "needy" when in truth
they are lazy and irresponsible, preferring to let
others take responsibility.

So how do you respond when you hear the phrase
"I know where I'll be coming..."?

I can say that my standard response to that statement is
pretty much to the effect of "Not if you have nothing to
contribute, and family comes first.". By "contribute" I
really mean "bring your own food and other goods".

Full Stop.

We are not in a position to feed, clothe and otherwise
tend to their needs. Sound harsh? It may, but so does
dying due to their unwillingness to prepare.

Notice I did not say their inability to prepare. Those
same people who choose not to be prepared all have
a bewildering array of insurance plans. The all have
spare tires in their cars. Most of them have IRA's or
Roth plans, or 401-K's. They will prepare for the
future in those ways; paying others to take ultimate
responsibility for them. What they refuse to do is
take direct personal responsibility.

The unspoken motto of the U.S. Marine Corps is:
God, Corps, Country. That's what the Fidelis in
"Semper Fidelis" refers to. Ever notice how Corps
comes before country? Ever give it any thought?
My personal motto is : God, Family, Community.
Notice the resemblance?

Naturally most people when they consider such a
chain of loyalty think of it from the self centered
point of view; first I'll take care of my own. There
is another equally important side to the coin.

Consider triage. In a life and death crisis who do
the doctors and nurses try to save first? Other
doctors and nurses, firemen, policemen,
soldiers. Why? Because those people posses the
skills and training and proven commitment to
saving others. Saving them means that many
more can be saved. The country is more likely
to be saved if the Corps is first saved so that it
can render service. The community is best saved
if the family is intact and strong and able to be a
resource to others.

There are always those who simply are not able
to organize their lives in such a way as to be
able to help themselves. Some of us feel we have
a duty to help the helpless in a time of need. The
majority could help themselves, but won't. The
excuses are endless. There will never be enough
resources tosave those who refuse to help them-
selves.

And so I keep the preps on the quiet side. The less that
those around us know the better. This is an unfortunate
but necessary result of the entitlement mentality that the
general public carries, because the scary part is that if
the unprepared don't feel cared for (by some standard
that escapes my understanding) they will try to take it by
any means necessary.

A 72hr kit can be made from household items, or can
be purchased, premade. Even people earning minimum
wages can afford one, and have no excuse for not
having one.

But, a 72 hr kit, it is only a stopgap. And yet how many
people have one? The Mormon Church estimates that
fewer than 10% of their members practice the food
storage program that their church preaches as a religious
duty. The simple fact is that most people have voted with
their dollars and their actions to be cattle; to let others
carry the responsibility for them.

Others have a 72hr kit as their complete preps. These are
told that they are not welcome. What they are telling me,
is that although they recognize and admit that they have a
responsibility and a duty, they are not willing to make more
than the most minimal effort on their own behalf. They are
saying that they are not willing to be part of the solution,
they are not willing to roll up their sleeves and help others,
much less themselves.

Some people have dismissed the whole idea of personal
preparedness with comments like "I pay my taxes!" As if
having paid taxes purchased an insurance plan that owed
them - a provider that was then obligated to come to their
rescue. And that is their attitude when a crisis happens,
they become angry, resentful and demanding of the
resources that they "paid for".

In the end it is a question of triage. If my family or I are
helpless and needy, how will I be able to help others? My
first moral duty is to not be a burden on others. My first
loyalty is to my family. Then, assist those others who
prepared. I will make great efforts to help those who were
prepared, but lost their equipment due to storm, fire, etc.
Once I have accomplished that I can then begin to consider
helping the genuinely helpless.

Those who could have helped themselves and chose not to
do so will have take what's left. If there is any.

And those who say "If Everything Falls Apart, I Know
Where to Go..." can jolly well go to . . . well, some warm
place where others like them congregate.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

"When Everything Falls Apart, I Know Where To Go"

I'm already there.

The place is Canada.

And sorry - you can't come in.

(rest of this pointless tomb not quoted because I'm not a full-quoter)

On 11/3/12 10:35 PM, David Kaye wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote

You have probably heard this from a friend or acquaint-
ance that has learned of your preps. The big question is:
what was your response?

Right where I am in Northern California. The topography is so varied and
the crops so plentiful that we needn't worry about anything. And this area
gets floods, wildfires, and the occasional quake. My home is less than 30
miles from abundant farmland, and within 80 miles are every crop imaginable.
California has so much food we export most of it.

All well and fine as long as there is infrastructure to keep the
farms productive. That means fuel and parts for the equipment.
It means electricity to run the equipment like dryers, augers or
whatever. It means modern seed and fertilizer.
One America farmer can feed about 155 people now. He fed only 26
back in 1960. http://www.farmersfeedus.org/fun-farm-facts/

On 11-04-2012 21:41, Dean Hoffman wrote:
One America farmer can feed about 155 people now. He fed only 26
back in 1960. http://www.farmersfeedus.org/fun-farm-facts/

Yes, he can generate six times the volume/calories.

Unfortunately, only two times the nutrition, If that.

--
Wes Groleau

After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed
all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him
three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, €œThat preacher
said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to
stay with you guys."

On 11-04-2012 23:40, Gunner wrote:
wrote:
On 11-04-2012 21:41, Dean Hoffman wrote:
One America farmer can feed about 155 people now. He fed only 26
back in 1960. http://www.farmersfeedus.org/fun-farm-facts/

Yes, he can generate six times the volume/calories.

Unfortunately, only two times the nutrition, If that.

Really? How does that work?

Calories and volume can be built mostly from air, water, and sunlight.

But the vitamins and minerals come from the soil and there's only so
much of that per acre. Fertilizers can help some, but they are limited.

Much of the genetic engineering and hybridizing increases yield while
leaving nutritional value the same or even worse.

--
Wes Groleau

A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.

"Gunner" wrote

Indeed. Northern California is a good place. Southern California has
no water to speak of and our millions of acres of farm lands are fed
by the California Aquaduct. There are wells..but the Aquaduct brings
in most of the water.

On the other hand, SoCal has the weather. I know three people living in LA.
None of them use a heater in the winter. One did manage to go out and buy a
$20 electric heater at Walgreen when there was a cold snap a few years ago.
I don't think he's used it since.

"Dean Hoffman" wrote

All well and fine as long as there is infrastructure to keep the farms
productive. That means fuel and parts for the equipment.
It means electricity to run the equipment like dryers, augers or whatever.
It means modern seed and fertilizer.

This assumes an infrastructure lasting months to years. For one, while most
of our electricity comes from Pacific Gas & Electric, there are small
co-operative utilities and government owned utilities. We also get our
electricity from a wide variety of sources, including natural gas, wind
turbines, solar, and water. In fact, SF owns its own water and power system
(as does LA), and they have excellent records of service to their customers.

Sure there will always be those people with the “mentality of entitlement” but that’s not the issue here. The issue is fairness. The right to fairness when seeking an education, the "right" to fairness when seeking health care, the "right" fairness when seeking food and housing. To explain what I mean by fairness let me give you an example:

Let’s say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you’re told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas. So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he’s selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn’t going to get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?
If you think that it is fair then I have nothing more to say to you other than you better hope you don’t meet other people that think like you do. But if you think that it isn’t fair then I would like to point out to you that this is exactly what is happening with the health care in this country.. Only the big hurricane is in your body and the health insurance companies are the gas station owners.

In a free market, items sell for what they are worth. If they are over
priced, they don't sell. It's that simple. So, you'd better not have any
more to do with me.

Do you think the government take over of health care is "fair"? if so, I'm
the one who won't have anything to do with YOU.

Do you think the government setting prices that store owners can charge is
"fair"? if so, I'm the one who won't have anything to do with YOU.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
Sure there will always be those people with the “mentality of entitlement”
but that’s not the issue here. The issue is fairness. The right to fairness
when seeking an education, the "right" to fairness when seeking health care,
the "right" fairness when seeking food and housing. To explain what I mean
by fairness let me give you an example:

Let’s say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you’re told
to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your vehicle and set
out on the road when you realize that you need gas. So you stop at a gas
station where the owner tells you that he’s selling a gallon of gasoline for
$300 a gallon. In fact the other gas stations have also raised their prices
to $300 dollars a gallon. You only have about nine hundred dollars and three
gallons isn’t going to get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but
he simply says that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas
for any price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?
If you think that it is fair then I have nothing more to say to you other
than you better hope you don’t meet other people that think like you do. But
if you think that it isn’t fair then I would like to point out to you that
this is exactly what is happening with the health care in this country. Only
the big hurricane is in your body and the health insurance companies are the
gas station owners.

On 11/5/2012 2:03 AM, wrote:
You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

It's capitalism at it's finest. God bless the Republican capitalists.

wrote:


Let’s say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you’re
told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your
vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas.
So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he’s
selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas
stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You
only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn’t going to
get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says
that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any
price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely.

It's his gas and he can sell it for whatever he can get.

And before you start ranting about "fairness," remember you have no
knowledge of what he PAID for his gas. For all you know, he could have paid
$299.85 per gallon. Would you insist he lose money because of your indolence
and sloth?

Secondly, the gas station you use as an example, probably lies in the
projected disaster area. The owner may simply be trying to enhance his
ability to rebuild.

Third, the gas station owner could have left at the same time as you, albeit
with a full tank, and because his station is now closed, you can't get gas
at ANY price. Shouldn't his risk be rewarded?

You Republican hypocrites know how to talk the talk but when in a disaster you’re the first ones to sit, cry and scream for your rights under the price gouging laws.

On 11/5/2012 8:21 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:


Let’s say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you’re
told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your
vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas.
So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he’s
selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas
stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You
only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn’t going to
get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says
that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any
price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely.

It's his gas and he can sell it for whatever he can get.

And before you start ranting about "fairness," remember you have no
knowledge of what he PAID for his gas. For all you know, he could have paid
$299.85 per gallon. Would you insist he lose money because of your indolence
and sloth?

Secondly, the gas station you use as an example, probably lies in the
projected disaster area. The owner may simply be trying to enhance his
ability to rebuild.

Third, the gas station owner could have left at the same time as you, albeit
with a full tank, and because his station is now closed, you can't get gas
at ANY price. Shouldn't his risk be rewarded?



I've thought for a while now that the best way to beat the price gouging
complainers and the lawmakers who listen to them is to setup
a business that has outrageous prices on things all the time. No one
will come in and purchase anything during normal times but when a
disaster hits the outrageous price store will have things in stock.
Of course anything that may have an expiration date will have to be
rotated in inventory by some means like having another normal price
store but the outrageous price store could be used as a distributor
until disaster hits then it's ready for walk in business. ^_^

TDD

Any proof of this, or is it just a free floating flame?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
You Republican hypocrites know how to talk the talk but when in a disaster
you’re the first ones to sit, cry and scream for your rights under the price
gouging laws.

Great wisdom. You only need to hire help every couple years.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

I've thought for a while now that the best way to beat the price gouging
complainers and the lawmakers who listen to them is to setup
a business that has outrageous prices on things all the time. No one
will come in and purchase anything during normal times but when a
disaster hits the outrageous price store will have things in stock.
Of course anything that may have an expiration date will have to be
rotated in inventory by some means like having another normal price
store but the outrageous price store could be used as a distributor
until disaster hits then it's ready for walk in business. ^_^

TDD

wrote:
You Republican hypocrites know how to talk the talk but when in a
disaster you’re the first ones to sit, cry and scream for your rights
under the price gouging laws.

First, hypocrisy gets a bad rap; 85% of gynecologists are men.

Second, whatever someone charges during a disaster has a VERY low
probability of affecting me. I will have done the ant thing, leaving the
grasshoppers to fend for themselves.

Third, I'm not sure if I HAVE any rights under price-gouging laws. If I did,
I certainly wouldn't insist upon them. If I need something from a vendor who
has doubled his price, I'll pay it.

Then I'll try to sell the item for double what *I* paid for it!

That's the American Way.

On 11-05-2012 06:26, Gunner wrote:
Well..it depends on where in So Cal one lives. Its a rather big area
and some places are COLD, others..no heater needed.

In my seven years in San Diego, I scraped my windshield three times.

--
Wes Groleau

€œLewis's case for the existence of God is fallacious.€�
"You mean like circular reasoning?€�
€œHe believes in God. Therefore, he's fallacious."

On 11-05-2012 02:00, Gunner wrote:
wrote:
Calories and volume can be built mostly from air, water, and sunlight.

But the vitamins and minerals come from the soil and there's only so
much of that per acre. Fertilizers can help some, but they are limited.

Much of the genetic engineering and hybridizing increases yield while
leaving nutritional value the same or even worse.

So Crop rotation is simply an empty dream?

No, that's an independent variable. It works--with or without the
yield-increasing methods. So you have one set of factors increasing
yield and proportionally decreasing nutrition, and another factor
partially compensating.

On the other hand, being undernourished and feeling hungry is worse than
being undernourished and not feeling hungry.

--
Wes Groleau

€œIt is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it
goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the
world.€�
€” Thomas Jefferson

In article , says...

Calories and volume can be built mostly from air, water, and sunlight.

But the vitamins and minerals come from the soil and there's only so
much of that per acre. Fertilizers can help some, but they are limited.

Much of the genetic engineering and hybridizing increases yield while
leaving nutritional value the same or even worse.

That seems to be because the plant breeders didn't realize what was happening
until recently. They are now breeding nutrients back into the plant strains.
There is no indication there is a per acre limit, only that they were
ignoring that factor and it got away from them.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:21:02 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:


Let’s say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you’re
told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your
vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas.
So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he’s
selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas
stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You
only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn’t going to
get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says
that it’s his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any
price he likes and that he’s just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely.

It's his gas and he can sell it for whatever he can get.

And before you start ranting about "fairness," remember you have no
knowledge of what he PAID for his gas. For all you know, he could have paid
$299.85 per gallon. Would you insist he lose money because of your indolence
and sloth?

Secondly, the gas station you use as an example, probably lies in the
projected disaster area. The owner may simply be trying to enhance his
ability to rebuild.

Third, the gas station owner could have left at the same time as you, albeit
with a full tank, and because his station is now closed, you can't get gas
at ANY price. Shouldn't his risk be rewarded?

Or someone who needed it less got to it first.

Think of hotel rooms in a disaster. You check in and ask the cost.
The clerk replies $100/room. Cheap enough so you take one for you and
the Misses and another for the kids. It's party time! Well, if it
were $200, perhaps you'd have only taken one room and gotten by with
the kids in the same room. This leaves a room left for someone else.
But lefties would rather the second family sleep in the rain.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:21:02 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:


Let's say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you're
told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your
vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas.
So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he's
selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas
stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You
only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn't going to
get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says
that it's his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any
price he likes and that he's just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely.

It's his gas and he can sell it for whatever he can get.

And before you start ranting about "fairness," remember you have no
knowledge of what he PAID for his gas. For all you know, he could have
paid
$299.85 per gallon. Would you insist he lose money because of your
indolence
and sloth?

Secondly, the gas station you use as an example, probably lies in the
projected disaster area. The owner may simply be trying to enhance his
ability to rebuild.

Third, the gas station owner could have left at the same time as you,
albeit
with a full tank, and because his station is now closed, you can't get gas
at ANY price. Shouldn't his risk be rewarded?

Or someone who needed it less got to it first.

Think of hotel rooms in a disaster. You check in and ask the cost.
The clerk replies $100/room. Cheap enough so you take one for you and
the Misses and another for the kids. It's party time! Well, if it
were $200, perhaps you'd have only taken one room and gotten by with
the kids in the same room. This leaves a room left for someone else.
But lefties would rather the second family sleep in the rain.

Real world -- hotel rents room, for whatever price. FEMA or out of town
contractors show up and the current occupants are put on the curb. Been
there and watched it happen.

Recent case in NYC hotel pressured to put out folk displaced by Sandy to
house folk coming to town for the marathon. Despite pressure from city
officials hotel owner refused claming a matter of ethics.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:04:22 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:21:02 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:


Let's say for example that there is a big hurricane coming and you're
told to leave the city. So you quickly pack your family in your
vehicle and set out on the road when you realize that you need gas.
So you stop at a gas station where the owner tells you that he's
selling a gallon of gasoline for $300 a gallon. In fact the other gas
stations have also raised their prices to $300 dollars a gallon. You
only have about nine hundred dollars and three gallons isn't going to
get you far. You argue with the gas station owner but he simply says
that it's his gas station and he can damn well sell his gas for any
price he likes and that he's just taking advantage of a very
profitable situation.
Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely.

It's his gas and he can sell it for whatever he can get.

And before you start ranting about "fairness," remember you have no
knowledge of what he PAID for his gas. For all you know, he could have
paid
$299.85 per gallon. Would you insist he lose money because of your
indolence
and sloth?

Secondly, the gas station you use as an example, probably lies in the
projected disaster area. The owner may simply be trying to enhance his
ability to rebuild.

Third, the gas station owner could have left at the same time as you,
albeit
with a full tank, and because his station is now closed, you can't get gas
at ANY price. Shouldn't his risk be rewarded?

Or someone who needed it less got to it first.

Think of hotel rooms in a disaster. You check in and ask the cost.
The clerk replies $100/room. Cheap enough so you take one for you and
the Misses and another for the kids. It's party time! Well, if it
were $200, perhaps you'd have only taken one room and gotten by with
the kids in the same room. This leaves a room left for someone else.
But lefties would rather the second family sleep in the rain.

Real world -- hotel rents room, for whatever price. FEMA or out of town
contractors show up and the current occupants are put on the curb. Been
there and watched it happen.

Or the mayor insists on running a race anyway. Government in action.
That's why it has to be limited.

Recent case in NYC hotel pressured to put out folk displaced by Sandy to
house folk coming to town for the marathon. Despite pressure from city
officials hotel owner refused claming a matter of ethics.

They had reservations, which weren't honored in many cases. Yes, it
is a matter of ethics.