Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

On Sep 20, 3:13*pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? *Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. *Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? *(Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

1. you can use either a brush or a roller. I don't like the brush
strokes that brushes leave, so I would use a small roller. They come
in small (3&4 inches) and larger sizes (9 and 12"). for the small
area you mentioned, I would go with a disposable 4" roller. if you
need a second coat of paint. Put the roller in a ziplock bag while
the first coat of paint dries. Then apply the second coat.

2. I typically don't like to dip directly in a paint can, but you can
do it but you do risk getting contaminates in the can. For a small
job, just pour some into a paper plate/bowl or a disposable clean
plastic container like the little ones that cool whip comes in.

3. if you're using a clear caulking, you can paint either before or
after. If you use a non-clear caulking, I would suggest applying the
caulking before you paint. Just make sure the caulking is labeled as
paintable.

4. This may get you unwanted comments as environmentalist will say
either way is harmful. For the small area, I would use disposable
items that can be put into a ziplock bag, and then wash up using the
sink.

Robin

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:26:56 -0700 (PDT), rlz
wrote:

On Sep 20, 3:13*pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? *Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. *Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? *(Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

1. you can use either a brush or a roller. I don't like the brush
strokes that brushes leave, so I would use a small roller. They come
in small (3&4 inches) and larger sizes (9 and 12"). for the small
area you mentioned, I would go with a disposable 4" roller. if you
need a second coat of paint. Put the roller in a ziplock bag while
the first coat of paint dries. Then apply the second coat.

2. I typically don't like to dip directly in a paint can, but you can
do it but you do risk getting contaminates in the can. For a small
job, just pour some into a paper plate/bowl or a disposable clean
plastic container like the little ones that cool whip comes in.

3. if you're using a clear caulking, you can paint either before or
after. If you use a non-clear caulking, I would suggest applying the
caulking before you paint. Just make sure the caulking is labeled as
paintable.

4. This may get you unwanted comments as environmentalist will say
either way is harmful. For the small area, I would use disposable
items that can be put into a ziplock bag, and then wash up using the
sink.

Robin


Agree with the other comments. Outside cleanup would make a mess if it
is paved. Sink is OK, use regular dishwashing soap and lots of water.
I'm for disposables though. You can use more water to rinse the paint
than is wasted by tossing a cheap roller cover.

On 09/20/2012 02:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:26:56 -0700 (PDT), rlz
wrote:

On Sep 20, 3:13 pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

1. you can use either a brush or a roller. I don't like the brush
strokes that brushes leave, so I would use a small roller. They come
in small (3&4 inches) and larger sizes (9 and 12"). for the small
area you mentioned, I would go with a disposable 4" roller. if you
need a second coat of paint. Put the roller in a ziplock bag while
the first coat of paint dries. Then apply the second coat.

2. I typically don't like to dip directly in a paint can, but you can
do it but you do risk getting contaminates in the can. For a small
job, just pour some into a paper plate/bowl or a disposable clean
plastic container like the little ones that cool whip comes in.

3. if you're using a clear caulking, you can paint either before or
after. If you use a non-clear caulking, I would suggest applying the
caulking before you paint. Just make sure the caulking is labeled as
paintable.

4. This may get you unwanted comments as environmentalist will say
either way is harmful. For the small area, I would use disposable
items that can be put into a ziplock bag, and then wash up using the
sink.

Robin


Agree with the other comments. Outside cleanup would make a mess if it
is paved. Sink is OK, use regular dishwashing soap and lots of water.
I'm for disposables though. You can use more water to rinse the paint
than is wasted by tossing a cheap roller cover.



Hi Ed and Robin,

Excellent advice. Thank you for sharing! Never thought of
a disposable roller and a zip lock bag.

-T

Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a
brush?

Either. But a small roller will usually do a better job.


2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

The basic rule is to not paint from the can. Pour some paint into a separate
container. It's no so much contamination - although that can be a factor if
you're painting a ghastly surface - as it is exposing the canned paint to
air. Oxygen is the enemy of paint.


3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

Either. Depends on whether you want the caulk to match the paint. Also
consider whether the paint will stick to the caulk you use.


4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

If using LATEX paint, you can use the sink. Hint: A dabble of fabric
softener make clean-up much easier.

Last Hint: Invest in one of the "Painting Secrets" books you find at the box
store. The one I've got is chock-a-block full of useful tips. Here's one for
free:

"Oil and Water do not mix." What this means is that you can spray your hands
with PAM before you start and you won't end up all speckeled.

One mo
Cling wrap on your glasses makes cleaning them trivial.

Here are two more rules that you won’t find in any book:

1. Don’t paint hinges or locks or any mechanical parts.
2. You need to sand-down close clearances on cabinets
and doors before you paint.

Todd wrote in :

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

That depends entirely on what you're painting. If it's a scuffed or damaged area in the
middle of a wall that was previously painted with a roller, then you should use a roller,
otherwise the surface will have a visibly different texture and it won't look right.

What are you painting?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can?

That's what most people do.

Or, will the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

"Contaminate" it with what? If whatever you're painting is so dirty that you'd contaminate the
can by dipping the brush twice, it's too damn dirty to paint in the first place.

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

After. It's too hard to paint a decent-looking edge on a bead of caulk.

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Either one. Latex paint won't harm your grass. Also won't damage the sink, as long as you
rinse it off completely. If you do it outside, make sure you do it in the lawn, not over a
driveway, sidewalk, patio, decorative stone, colored mulch, etc -- you _will not_ get it rinsed
well enough to avoid leaving a stain, no matter how hard you try.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:13:07 -0700, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

I can't paint without getting it everywhere. I cover up everything
and it still gets everywhere.

I did see a tip to use a rubber band to take excess paint off of the
brush.

On 09/20/2012 04:41 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a
brush?

Either. But a small roller will usually do a better job.


2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

The basic rule is to not paint from the can. Pour some paint into a separate
container. It's no so much contamination - although that can be a factor if
you're painting a ghastly surface - as it is exposing the canned paint to
air. Oxygen is the enemy of paint.


3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

Either. Depends on whether you want the caulk to match the paint. Also
consider whether the paint will stick to the caulk you use.


4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

If using LATEX paint, you can use the sink. Hint: A dabble of fabric
softener make clean-up much easier.

Last Hint: Invest in one of the "Painting Secrets" books you find at the box
store. The one I've got is chock-a-block full of useful tips. Here's one for
free:

"Oil and Water do not mix." What this means is that you can spray your hands
with PAM before you start and you won't end up all speckeled.

One mo
Cling wrap on your glasses makes cleaning them trivial.

Thank you

On 09/20/2012 05:04 PM, wrote:
Here are two more rules that you won’t find in any book:

1. Don’t paint hinges or locks or any mechanical parts.
2. You need to sand-down close clearances on cabinets
and doors before you paint.



Thank you

On 09/20/2012 07:19 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
Todd wrote in :

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

That depends entirely on what you're painting. If it's a scuffed or damaged area in the
middle of a wall that was previously painted with a roller, then you should use a roller,
otherwise the surface will have a visibly different texture and it won't look right.

What are you painting?

Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting


2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can?

That's what most people do.

Or, will the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

"Contaminate" it with what? If whatever you're painting is so dirty that you'd contaminate the
can by dipping the brush twice, it's too damn dirty to paint in the first place.

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

After. It's too hard to paint a decent-looking edge on a bead of caulk.

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Either one. Latex paint won't harm your grass. Also won't damage the sink, as long as you
rinse it off completely. If you do it outside, make sure you do it in the lawn, not over a
driveway, sidewalk, patio, decorative stone, colored mulch, etc -- you _will not_ get it rinsed
well enough to avoid leaving a stain, no matter how hard you try.


Thank you

Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?


WHAT ARE YOU PAINTING ?

Greg

I'm guessing it would not be hard to find
those advices in books.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
Here are two more rules that you won’t find in any book:

1. Don’t paint hinges or locks or any mechanical parts.
2. You need to sand-down close clearances on cabinets
and doors before you paint.

On 09/20/2012 07:24 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:13:07 -0700, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

I can't paint without getting it everywhere. I cover up everything
and it still gets everywhere.

I did see a tip to use a rubber band to take excess paint off of the
brush.


Forewarned is forearmed. Thank you

On 09/20/2012 07:44 PM, gregz wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?


WHAT ARE YOU PAINTING ?

Greg



Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting. (Wife pointed out she suggested
it first.)

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:13:07 -0700, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

What are you painting? If it's a touchup job, where other areas have been
rolled, no. Walls, I'd say no. Woodwork, sure.

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

If you've prep'd well, you can dip the brush in the can. I do it all the
time.

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

Do you need to caulk?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Sink inside. Rinse well. A bit of dish detergent (Dawn, etc.) makes the
cleanup job a *lot* easier. Rinse out the brushes under running water and
then let them soak in soapy water overnight. They'll be trivial to keep
clean.

Many thanks,

Now one for the group... Is there any downside to rolling on paint outside? I
may have to paint the house we're about to sell and a roller would make the
job a *lot* easier. The siding is Hardipanel with faux batons. Brushing the
batons and rolling the rest would make quick work of the house.

HF and Lowe's both have small roller, about four inches,
with metal and plastic handle. I really love them. But, the
rollers won't interchange, on the other brand of handle.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Todd" wrote in message
...

Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting. (Wife pointed out she suggested
it first.)

Todd wrote:
On 09/20/2012 07:44 PM, gregz wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?


WHAT ARE YOU PAINTING ?

Greg



Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting. (Wife pointed out she suggested
it first.)

Try to get a paint that's mold resistant, but I dont have any problems with
regular. My bathrooms flat paint.

Greg

On 09/20/2012 08:28 PM, gregz wrote:
Todd wrote:
On 09/20/2012 07:44 PM, gregz wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?


WHAT ARE YOU PAINTING ?

Greg



Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting. (Wife pointed out she suggested
it first.)

Try to get a paint that's mold resistant, but I dont have any problems with
regular. My bathrooms flat paint.

Greg


http://www.ecoprotectiveproducts.com/bioshield.html

wrote:
Here are two more rules that you won’t find in any book:

1. Don’t paint hinges or locks or any mechanical parts.

Very good advice. Also remove the switch and outlet plates before painting.
Also door knobs.

This may be a good time to replace yucky-looking hinges, too.

Todd wrote:


Wall and ceiling above the shower. I will go with the small
roller everyone is suggesting. (Wife pointed out she suggested
it first.)

Tip: Almost always the ceiling of any room should be white. It helps reflect
light.

I had a shower once that had a wine-colored ceiling.

After closing the curtain, the shower was so dark I had to mark my dirty
spots before having a wash.

That’s exactly what I thought
when I told those rules when I talked to my clients
until one day one of them asked me to reference it.
I must have looked through dozens of house painting books
and I still look-through them
every time I come across a book on painting
but to this day I have never seen
those advises written-down in any book.
I would greatly appreciate it
if you could give me the name and author
of any book on house painting that has that advice in.
I would immediately buy it
and carry it around in my truck to show as reference.

"Todd" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Eye, We, Todd, Did.

On 09/21/2012 09:48 AM, Lane wrote:
Todd wrote:

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Sink is okay -- unless you have a septic system. In that case, I'd
clean up outside. Latex paint won't hurt the grass.


Thank you

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:59:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

That’s exactly what I thought
when I told those rules when I talked to my clients
until one day one of them asked me to reference it.
I must have looked through dozens of house painting books
and I still look-through them
every time I come across a book on painting
but to this day I have never seen
those advises written-down in any book.
I would greatly appreciate it
if you could give me the name and author
of any book on house painting that has that advice in.
I would immediately buy it
and carry it around in my truck to show as reference.

Reference what?

On 9/20/2012 5:13 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

You've gotten quite a few good tips here. In general, I would advise
not to buy the cheapest of anything...paint, brushes, rollers. In
choosing a roller, be sure to check the nap length and label....short
nap for smooth surfaces. Be sure to mix you paint with a stir stick
immediately prior to use, even though they put it on the shaker at the
store. I strongly advise using alkyd (oil) semi paint for trim,
kitchens and baths because it wears and cleans better. On trim, latex
is impossible to sand smooth when you want to repaint. Alkyd is a tad
more trouble to clean up, using mineral spirits to clean brush. So
what. Using latex, yes you can clean brushes in the kitchen sink, but
get rid of as much paint as you can first by squishing brushes in
newspaper to get out excess. When finished cleaning either kind of
paint from brushes, soak them a while in Dawn dish detergent, work it
into base of bristles and then rinse thoroughly.

I would buy paint only at a paint store...Ben Moore, Sher Williams, etc.
All in all, meticulous prep is more important than the brand of paint
because bad prep will make any paint job look like crap. Make sure
surfaces are CLEAN, free of dust, moisture (dry the wall in the bath),
mildew, soap scum. If you patch holes, prime the area x2 before painting.

Read labels and follow instructions for use, thinning, recoating, etc.

If you stop and start, wrap roller/brush in foil or plastic and stick it
in the freezer.

"Norminn" wrote in message
...
On 9/20/2012 5:13 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

You've gotten quite a few good tips here. In general, I would advise not
to buy the cheapest of anything...paint, brushes, rollers. In choosing a
roller, be sure to check the nap length and label....short nap for smooth
surfaces. Be sure to mix you paint with a stir stick immediately prior to
use, even though they put it on the shaker at the store. I strongly
advise using alkyd (oil) semi paint for trim, kitchens and baths because
it wears and cleans better. On trim, latex is impossible to sand smooth
when you want to repaint. Alkyd is a tad more trouble to clean up, using
mineral spirits to clean brush. So what. Using latex, yes you can clean
brushes in the kitchen sink, but get rid of as much paint as you can first
by squishing brushes in newspaper to get out excess. When finished
cleaning either kind of paint from brushes, soak them a while in Dawn dish
detergent, work it into base of bristles and then rinse thoroughly.

I would buy paint only at a paint store...Ben Moore, Sher Williams, etc.
All in all, meticulous prep is more important than the brand of paint
because bad prep will make any paint job look like crap. Make sure
surfaces are CLEAN, free of dust, moisture (dry the wall in the bath),
mildew, soap scum. If you patch holes, prime the area x2 before painting.

Read labels and follow instructions for use, thinning, recoating, etc.

If you stop and start, wrap roller/brush in foil or plastic and stick it
in the freezer.

Very nice summary -- good commonsense stuff that works. I found out the way
to clean brushes by accident and, yes, working detergent into the bristles
before water rinsing helps the cleaning process. I also keep a wire brush
handy to comb the bristles clean of hardened paint and am careful to use
synthetic bristles rather than animal bristles for latex paint. If there's
any hint of dirt, especially grease, on the previously-painted surface,
clean it. I use Windex.

Tomsic

On 09/21/2012 12:25 PM, Norminn wrote:
On 9/20/2012 5:13 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

Many thanks,
-T

You've gotten quite a few good tips here. In general, I would advise
not to buy the cheapest of anything...paint, brushes, rollers. In
choosing a roller, be sure to check the nap length and label....short
nap for smooth surfaces. Be sure to mix you paint with a stir stick
immediately prior to use, even though they put it on the shaker at the
store. I strongly advise using alkyd (oil) semi paint for trim,
kitchens and baths because it wears and cleans better. On trim, latex
is impossible to sand smooth when you want to repaint. Alkyd is a tad
more trouble to clean up, using mineral spirits to clean brush. So
what. Using latex, yes you can clean brushes in the kitchen sink, but
get rid of as much paint as you can first by squishing brushes in
newspaper to get out excess. When finished cleaning either kind of
paint from brushes, soak them a while in Dawn dish detergent, work it
into base of bristles and then rinse thoroughly.

I would buy paint only at a paint store...Ben Moore, Sher Williams, etc.
All in all, meticulous prep is more important than the brand of paint
because bad prep will make any paint job look like crap. Make sure
surfaces are CLEAN, free of dust, moisture (dry the wall in the bath),
mildew, soap scum. If you patch holes, prime the area x2 before painting.

Read labels and follow instructions for use, thinning, recoating, etc.

If you stop and start, wrap roller/brush in foil or plastic and stick it
in the freezer.


Thank you!

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:49:18 -0400, "Tomsic" wrote:

I found out the way
to clean brushes by accident and, yes, working detergent into the bristles
before water rinsing helps the cleaning process. I also keep a wire brush
handy to comb the bristles clean of hardened paint and am careful to use
synthetic bristles rather than animal bristles for latex paint.

I learned to clean with soap, water, and a stainless steel wire brush.
Cleaned outside using a homer bucket of water. Taught to me by a man
that spent 10 years as a painter's apprentice (construction
contractor).

It changed me forever.

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:09:28 -0700, Todd wrote:

Thank you!

Todd,

If you dislike the smell of paint, stir in 4 drops of vanilla extract
into a gallon of paint.

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:47:24 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:09:28 -0700, Todd wrote:

Thank you!

Todd,

If you dislike the smell of paint, stir in 4 drops of vanilla extract
into a gallon of paint.

Add bourbon for taste.

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 16:58:14 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

If you dislike the smell of paint, stir in 4 drops of vanilla extract
into a gallon of paint.

Add bourbon for taste.

Why waste mouthwash?

If anyone is interested in learning more about latex paint, an excellent resource is the website of the Paint Quality Institute:

Painting information and resources for home interiors and exteriors - Paint Quality Institute

The Paint Quality Institute was established by the Rohm & Haas Company who were the largest manufacturer of acrylic resins used to make latex paints, acrylic floor finishes, grout & stone sealers and nail polish for the ladies in North America until they got bought out by Dow in 2009. Dow has chosen to continue funding the Paint Quality Institute, and to expand that web site. The original purpose of the Paint Quality Institute was to educate paint specifiers (like architects), painting professionals and consumers ( which I presume means people that drink paint) on the benefits of consuming better quality latex paints, so it has quite a bit of technical information in it. Unfortunately, I don't know of a similar resource for oil based paints (although you can learn lots about them at the PQI website, too).

The technology of acrylic paint is very similar to the technology of acrylic floor finishes, and since I have to maintain both in my building, it was important to me to learn this stuff, so I've spent quite a bit of time on the PQI web site. I like to think I know a little bit about latex paints now, and there's lotsa stuff in this thread that needs to be clarified or the newbies in here might get confused.

For simplicity, I broke this post into separate topics:

__________________________________________________ _______________

First off, here is my painting tip:

Instead of using a wire brush to clean hardened paint out of the brush AFTER painting, consider soaking your brush in water (or mineral spirits if using oil based paint) and shaking out the excess thinner immediately BEFORE starting to paint. And, if you're painting for a long time, use an eye dropper (that you can buy at any drug store) to periodically add a drop or two of thinner to your brush (near the ferrule) while you paint.
That's cuz those hardened pieces your're cleaning out of the bristles are caused by the paint working it's way up the bristles of your brush and drying there while you were painting. By wetting the brush with thinner first, the air spaces high up in the brush get filled with thinner, and any paint that works it's way up there will just be diluted by the thinner, and won't dry up. So, you won't have to deal with little pieces of hardened paint to begin with. And, it's that process of paint drying inside the brush that causes brushes to go out of shape, so preventing that from happening keeps your brushes in good condition. (watch out when you first start painting with a wet brush cuz there may still be too much water in your brush, and the paint in your brush could be runny)

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Todd:

You should know that if the latex paint above your shower is peeling, it's probably NOT because of insufficient prep work by the previous painter. Paint peeling on the ceiling above a shower is most often caused by using a "budget" priced paint where you need a better quality paint.

In North America, most latex house paints are made of one of two different kinds of plastics:
1. polyvinyl acetate (commonly called "PVA" or in paint speak "vinyl acrylic" resins): which is used in general purpose primers and "budget priced" interior latex paints. PVA is the same plastic that white wood glue is made of.
2. polymethyl methacrylate (commonly called "PMMA" or in paint speak "100% Acrylic" resins) which are used in better quality interior latex paints, most exterior latex paints and primers for fresh concrete. PMMA is the same plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

The problem is that most homeowners don't know very much about paint, so they often buy inexpensive "budget" priced paint and use it everywhere, including in their bathrooms. And, the PVA paint they use doesn't have good enough resistance to moisture to stand up in a wet and humid environment like a bathroom, especially on the ceiling above a shower where the paint gets wet at least once per day.

In this case the advice not to buy cheap really applies. By buying a better quality paint, the binder resin in the paint will be made from that PMMA plastic which is very much more resistant to moisture.

And, if it wuz me, I would buy a latex paint specifically made for bathrooms where the binder resin was specifically chosen because of it's high resistance to moisture.

If the paint is peeling only where the moisture and humidity in your bathroom would be highest, it's not a matter of insufficient preparation prior to painting; it's a matter of using the wrong latex paint. This is a common paint problem that most often misdiagnosed as insufficient prep work.

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KRW:

Go ahead and use a paint roller sleeve on your siding. I painted the front and back of my father's commercial building with latex paint using a paint roller years ago and never had any problems with that paint job. I think the only reason people tend to use brushes on the outside of there house is because a paint tray isn't as practical as a can when you're painting from a ladder.

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Someone said to pour off some paint into a small container and paint from the container rather than the can...
...and that's because "oxygen is the enemy of paint".

Someone else said that if you have to stop painting for some reason, wrap the brush and roller in plastic or foil and stick them in the freezer. (I'd add that if you're using an oil based paint, wrap the paint tray in a bigger plastic bag and put it in the fridge or freezer too.)

Both of those statements are good advice if we're talking about oil based paint, but they don't apply if we're talking about painting with latex paint.

In oil based paints, oxygen will be absorbed into the paint as long as the can is open. That oxygen chemically reacts with the oil or alkyd resins to cause the paint to transform from a liquid into a solid. So, the sooner you seal up your oil based paint can after pouring off as much as you need, the less oxygen will be absorbed into the paint remaining in the can and the less of a solid film will form on your paint while it's in storage. (Pour off a generous amount since it's better to put more paint on than to throw a bigger hunk of dried oil based paint film in the garbage.) (If anyone is interested in that chemical reaction with oxygen, ask and I'll post a link that explains it.)

Since it's a chemical reaction that transforms oil based coatings into solid films, cooling an oil based paint will slow that reaction down immensely, so oil based coatings won't "dry" if they're cold. You can paint a fence in a North Dakota blizzard with oil based paint, and the paint will stay tacky until spring, when it will "dry" normally once the warm weather returns.

However, normal latex paints form a film through a completely different process called "coalescence" which doesn't involve any chemical reactions, so I don't see any advantage in putting the latex paint in a cold place. (If anyone is interested in how coalescence works, ask and I'll post a link that explains it.)

(Latex floor paints do have a chemical reaction cuz they use something called a "crosslinking acrylic resin", but that chemical reaction happens in the days and weeks after that "freshly painted" smell dissipates from the room or house.)

So, if you're painting with a latex paint and you have to stop for some reason, just wrap the paint roller sleeve and paint brush in plastic bags, and maybe wrap the paint roller tray in a bigger plastic bag, and that's really all you need to do to prevent sufficient water evaporating from the paint to cause it to "dry" while you're gone. If anyone sees any benefit in cooling latex paint, I'd like to know what they're seeing that I'm not.

Also, exposure to oxygen doesn't affect latex paints like it does oil based paints, so there's no real benefit to pouring off as much latex paint than you think you'll need and sealing up the can asap.

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Someone suggested spraying your hands with Pam and putting cling wrap on your glasses to protect them from paint spatter.

People should know that if you pay more for a better latex paint, you won't have any paint spatter.

When I paint the walls and ceilings in apartments with Pratt & Lambert Accolade Velvet or
Accolade Satin (at $50+ $Cdn per gallon), I don't even bother with drop cloths to protect the carpeting in the suite cuz there simply isn't any spatter. There might be the odd drop fall off the roller sleeve onto the carpet, so I keep a spray bottle full of water and wet/dry ShopVac style vaccuum cleaner handy to deal with those. But, when you figure that you only paint once every 10 years at most, and you're saving most of the cost by doing the work yourself, paying more for better paint to eliminate the hassle of covering up everything isn't unreasonable.

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Hope this helps someone somehow some day. Obviously, I'm not really busy today.

On 09/21/2012 08:12 PM, nestork wrote:
If the paint is peeling only where the moisture and humidity in your
bathroom would be highest, it's not a matter of insufficient preparation
prior to painting; it's a matter of using the wrong latex paint. This
is a common paint problem that most often misdiagnosed as insufficient
prep work.

Hi PM,

This is the paint I will be using:

http://www.ecoprotectiveproducts.com/bioshield.html

"Bio-Shield Premium latex paint is a true ZERO VOC,
ZERO ODOR interior paint. Produced from 100% pure
acrylic latex resins

it is engineered with naturally occurring, inorganic
silver technology, a technology developed and produced
in American laboratories that ensures the paint remains
free from damaging and odor causing bacterial and other
microbial cells."

Nothing can live in or on this paint. Oh ya, and it "IS"
expensive.

My current paint is ~ 20 years old and is a crappy
contractor paint.


-T

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:13:07 -0700, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

Some beginner's painting questions:

1) for 8 sq ft do a really need a roller? Or can I stick with a brush?

FOR SUCH A SMALL AREA, JUST USE YOUR HAND AND SPREAD IT.......


2) if using a brush, can I dip directly into the can? Or, will
the second time I dip it into the can contaminate the can?

DOES TAKING A SIP OUT OF A CAN OF BEER CONTAMINATE THE BEER?

3) do I caulk before or after I paint?

DURING AND AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!

4) water cleanup. Does this mean the hose outside or can
I use the sink inside? (Will it mess up the sink?)

JUST DIP IT IN YOUR BEER, THEN DRINK THE BEER *******

Many thanks,
-T

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:44:57 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'm guessing it would not be hard to find
those advices in books.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

You would'nt know anyhow. Mormons dont paint, they just let Jesus do
the job. Then they rub their **** on the walls to make nice brown walls,
until Jesus changes the color scheme, and thus changes the color of
their ****. Ask Mitt Ronmey, he asked Jesus to make him famous, and
now he's harassing everyone in America with excessive phone calls and
attacking the president with his lies. Mormons are taught to lie to
cover up their cult brainwashing.