On Jul 26, 11:44*am, "
wrote:

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. *If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to?

There's an old axiom about keeping your enemies close so that you can
keep a watchful eye on them.

The Chinese did have a lot of wisdom. However, I hope they had cast iron
underpants for their boys, with Sandusky close by. That Sandusky has a
reputation of being a PIA.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Red" wrote in message
...

There's an old axiom about keeping your
enemies close so that you can
keep a watchful eye on them.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 06:23:16 -0700 (PDT), Red wrote:

On Jul 26, 11:44*am, "
wrote:

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. *If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to?

There's an old axiom about keeping your enemies close so that you can
keep a watchful eye on them.

enemy pervert

"Red" wrote in message
...
On Jul 26, 11:44 am, "
wrote:

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to?

There's an old axiom about keeping your enemies close so that you can
keep a watchful eye on them.

{{

Recall Pogo 'We have met the enemy and they is us'?

On Jul 27, 8:23*am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 12:44 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 12:03 pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08 am, "
wrote:

It's not limited to us Yanks. *Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. *It's a human emotion called "pride". *And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. *As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. *Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. *If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. *Pride = attendance = income. *At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. *If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? *Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. *A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.

You don't seem to be very familiar with big organizations where all
moral compasses have been disabled in favor of the "good" of the
organization. Their entire culture was to do everything "for the team".
They were so arrogant they thought they could simply ignore it up and
maybe all of their mindless followers would even defend them when the
rape of young boys was uncovered. Ever hear of an organization where a
statue of a living person was placed at a main entrance as in the
recently removed that never should have been there Paterno statue? Thats
mindless "for the team" worship.



And you don't seem to understand that if the goal was
the good of the organization, then those running the
organization would have simply gotten rid of Sandusky.
Not reporting what they knew had occured to the police,
though reprehensible, was consistent
with protecting the organization. Allowing Sandusky to
continue to bring kids over, use the Penn State
facilities, in essence helping him further his crimes,
was obviously courting disaster with a high
probability of it destroying them all.

On Jul 27, 8:30*am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 5:33 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 4:48 pm, bob haller wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
> they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......
>
> source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". *They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

if you follow the news, the NCAA told the university the death penalty was under consideration, so penn state agreed to not fight any other discpline.

they really should of gotten a 5 year death penalty followed by 5 years no bowls.

so all other schools would never run the risk *of doing anything stupid in the future.

That's worked real well in other cases, right?
Like where we've fine corporations huge amounts.
No corporation ever did anything wrong again, right?

Its a good start and a lot better than say the bank bailouts where we
basically said "good job boys".



Or how about where we put people in jail for
life, really for life, that's eliminated murder,
right?

Do you have some stats comparing a identical to ours society were there
are no punishments as deterrents vs our current system of criminal codes?



It's not an isssue of no punishment. I was responding to
the claim that was made that
the punishment handed down at Penn State will prevent
any such similar events from happening again. There
is nothing to suggest that this is any more deterent than
what has already happened, ie Sandusky in jail, officials
responsible fired, huge civil suits against the college.
And then we have the likelihood of criminal charges
being brought against the officials, ie perjury, child
endangerment, conspiracy, etc.

The bigger issue is that the $60 mil punishment is going
after the wrong people. Sandusky has already been
punished. Paterno is disgraced and dead. The Penn
State officials responsible are disgraced and have
been fired. So, who does the $60 mil punish?
The innocent who had nothing to do with it. It's
just another blatant money grab by institutions able to
do it.




All you doing is punishing the innocent that
had nothing to do with what happened. And
mainly new people coming to Penn State, or
who would have come to Penn State on a
scholarship. *They were in high school or
not even born when Sandusky was molesting
kids. *Those actually guilty, they aren't even
there anymore.

This is kind of like a dictator where if someone
in a particular town betrayed him, he sends the
army to kill the entire town.

They had a totally broken "everything for the team" culture. Water
needed to be thrown on it to extinguish it and send a message that the
"anything for the team" culture was broken and wrong.

Yeah, just like sending the hit squad to wipe out the town where
the guy who ****ed off the dictator lived.

On 7/25/2012 8:23 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.



Those scholarships should have been mandated to academic scholarships.

John

In article , John
wrote:

On 7/25/2012 8:23 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.



Those scholarships should have been mandated to academic scholarships.

John

I disagree for the reasons outlined. The guys who aren't going to be
able to East Gnaw Bone State in the Really, Really Small Colleges league
are the guys hurt. Especially since, especially at Penn State, that just
means someone who would have gone there anyway now gets a little off the
list price.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:31:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 27, 8:23*am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 12:44 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 12:03 pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08 am, "
wrote:

It's not limited to us Yanks. *Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. *It's a human emotion called "pride". *And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. *As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. *Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. *If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. *Pride = attendance = income. *At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. *If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? *Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. *A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.

You don't seem to be very familiar with big organizations where all
moral compasses have been disabled in favor of the "good" of the
organization. Their entire culture was to do everything "for the team".
They were so arrogant they thought they could simply ignore it up and
maybe all of their mindless followers would even defend them when the
rape of young boys was uncovered. Ever hear of an organization where a
statue of a living person was placed at a main entrance as in the
recently removed that never should have been there Paterno statue? Thats
mindless "for the team" worship.



And you don't seem to understand that if the goal was
the good of the organization, then those running the
organization would have simply gotten rid of Sandusky.
Not reporting what they knew had occured to the police,
though reprehensible, was consistent
with protecting the organization. Allowing Sandusky to
continue to bring kids over, use the Penn State
facilities, in essence helping him further his crimes,
was obviously courting disaster with a high
probability of it destroying them all.

From an underling's perspective, it's either getting fired now (for turning
the perv in) or getting fired somewhere down the line when the thing explodes.
It's not a difficult decision for most. This is on the inner circle.

wrote:

It's not an isssue of no punishment. I was responding to
the claim that was made that
the punishment handed down at Penn State will prevent
any such similar events from happening again. There
is nothing to suggest that this is any more deterent than
what has already happened, ie Sandusky in jail, officials
responsible fired, huge civil suits against the college.
And then we have the likelihood of criminal charges
being brought against the officials, ie perjury, child
endangerment, conspiracy, etc.


Yeah, just like sending the hit squad to wipe out the town where
the guy who ****ed off the dictator lived.

It's called "corporate (not corporation) guilt," that is, the notion of
punishing a community for the actions of one of its members. Corporate guilt
worked in the time of Moses, Roman Legions, today's elementary school
classroom, the U.S. Marine Corps, and countless other places. The theory is:
who better to monitor the actions of a person than members of his own
family, his neighbors, or community?

Corporate guilt is not a perfect solution, but time has proven corporate
guilt is more effective, in some situations, than merely admonishing the
rascally behavior of a single individual.

On 7/27/2012 5:31 PM, wrote:
On Jul 27, 8:23 am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 12:44 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 12:03 pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08 am, "
wrote:

It's not limited to us Yanks. Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. It's a human emotion called "pride". And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. Pride = attendance = income. At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.

You don't seem to be very familiar with big organizations where all
moral compasses have been disabled in favor of the "good" of the
organization. Their entire culture was to do everything "for the team".
They were so arrogant they thought they could simply ignore it up and
maybe all of their mindless followers would even defend them when the
rape of young boys was uncovered. Ever hear of an organization where a
statue of a living person was placed at a main entrance as in the
recently removed that never should have been there Paterno statue? Thats
mindless "for the team" worship.



And you don't seem to understand that if the goal was
the good of the organization, then those running the
organization would have simply gotten rid of Sandusky.
Not reporting what they knew had occured to the police,
though reprehensible, was consistent
with protecting the organization. Allowing Sandusky to
continue to bring kids over, use the Penn State
facilities, in essence helping him further his crimes,
was obviously courting disaster with a high
probability of it destroying them all.



There is normal sensible people with a moral compass "good" and then
there is the broken "good for the team" as practiced at Penn state.
Know anyplace else where a statue of a *living* person was erected at
the main entrance?

On 7/27/2012 5:40 PM, wrote:
On Jul 27, 8:30 am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 5:33 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 4:48 pm, bob haller wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
> they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......
>
> source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

if you follow the news, the NCAA told the university the death penalty was under consideration, so penn state agreed to not fight any other discpline.

they really should of gotten a 5 year death penalty followed by 5 years no bowls.

so all other schools would never run the risk of doing anything stupid in the future.

That's worked real well in other cases, right?
Like where we've fine corporations huge amounts.
No corporation ever did anything wrong again, right?

Its a good start and a lot better than say the bank bailouts where we
basically said "good job boys".



Or how about where we put people in jail for
life, really for life, that's eliminated murder,
right?

Do you have some stats comparing a identical to ours society were there
are no punishments as deterrents vs our current system of criminal codes?



It's not an isssue of no punishment. I was responding to
the claim that was made that
the punishment handed down at Penn State will prevent
any such similar events from happening again. There
is nothing to suggest that this is any more deterent than
what has already happened, ie Sandusky in jail, officials
responsible fired, huge civil suits against the college.
And then we have the likelihood of criminal charges
being brought against the officials, ie perjury, child
endangerment, conspiracy, etc.

But you are speaking in absolutes again. No one made the claim that the
NCAA actions *will prevent* anything. The common sense thing is that if
you deliver a strong "course correction" you send a message and many who
would drift into the "anything for the team" nonsense would think twice.

And again you said there is nothing to suggest punishment is a
deterrent. Do you have stats of some parallel situation where punishment
is never used and the success of that?




The bigger issue is that the $60 mil punishment is going
after the wrong people. Sandusky has already been
punished. Paterno is disgraced and dead. The Penn
State officials responsible are disgraced and have
been fired. So, who does the $60 mil punish?
The innocent who had nothing to do with it. It's
just another blatant money grab by institutions able to
do it.



Penn state had a broken "for the team" ethic. The only way you break
something like that is to throw a blanket on it.



All you doing is punishing the innocent that
had nothing to do with what happened. And
mainly new people coming to Penn State, or
who would have come to Penn State on a
scholarship. They were in high school or
not even born when Sandusky was molesting
kids. Those actually guilty, they aren't even
there anymore.

This is kind of like a dictator where if someone
in a particular town betrayed him, he sends the
army to kill the entire town.

They had a totally broken "everything for the team" culture. Water
needed to be thrown on it to extinguish it and send a message that the
"anything for the team" culture was broken and wrong.

Yeah, just like sending the hit squad to wipe out the town where
the guy who ****ed off the dictator lived.

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 08:33:14 -0400, George wrote:

On 7/27/2012 5:31 PM, wrote:
On Jul 27, 8:23 am, George wrote:
On 7/26/2012 12:44 PM, wrote:





On Jul 26, 12:03 pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08 am, "
wrote:

It's not limited to us Yanks. Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. It's a human emotion called "pride". And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. Pride = attendance = income. At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.

You don't seem to be very familiar with big organizations where all
moral compasses have been disabled in favor of the "good" of the
organization. Their entire culture was to do everything "for the team".
They were so arrogant they thought they could simply ignore it up and
maybe all of their mindless followers would even defend them when the
rape of young boys was uncovered. Ever hear of an organization where a
statue of a living person was placed at a main entrance as in the
recently removed that never should have been there Paterno statue? Thats
mindless "for the team" worship.



And you don't seem to understand that if the goal was
the good of the organization, then those running the
organization would have simply gotten rid of Sandusky.
Not reporting what they knew had occured to the police,
though reprehensible, was consistent
with protecting the organization. Allowing Sandusky to
continue to bring kids over, use the Penn State
facilities, in essence helping him further his crimes,
was obviously courting disaster with a high
probability of it destroying them all.



There is normal sensible people with a moral compass "good" and then
there is the broken "good for the team" as practiced at Penn state.
Know anyplace else where a statue of a *living* person was erected at
the main entrance?

Unfortunately, this sort of thing is becoming all too common.

On Jul 27, 8:59*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That Sandusky has a reputation of being a PIA.


Nice pun, though insensitive for the subject.

I thought it was completely insensetive. But, then,
I'm an insensetive kind of guy.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Red" wrote in message
...
On Jul 27, 8:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That Sandusky has a reputation of being a PIA.


Nice pun, though insensitive for the subject.

penn state used the football program to promote the university..

the best way to penalize penn state was remove their biggest promotion
tool.......

penn state should of got the death penalty for 5 years, and been
required to give free tuition to penn state or any other university
for any football player in the program or was to about to
join..........

hit penn ste where it hurts the most the wallet,,,,,,,'

a devasting hit would help prevent another occurence at any
school.......

hey we cant cover this up just look at what happened to penn state,
call the cops and report the idiot