wrote in message
...
On Jul 24, 7:12 am, Duesenberg wrote:
On 7/24/2012 2:57 AM, harryagain wrote:

I was reading that Penn State University has been fined $60m for failing
to
root out pervs.
(Money talks in the USA doesn't it?)
We have plenty of pervs over here too BTW.

So where does a university find that sort of money?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/usa-pennstate-idINL2E8INCC02...

It wasn't for failing to root out pervs, it was for covering up and
thwarting attempts to root out pervs.

60 million is the fine because that's the typical revenue that Penn
State football earns in a given year. Penn State is still allowed to
play football this year so the majority of that fine money will come
from this years earnings on football and the remainder on future years
football earnings.

Penn State's stadium is the 2nd or 3rd largest stadium in the United
States, holding 105 000+ fans. They host 6 games this year so that's
600 000+ tickets sold right there. They also play in a "league" called
the big 10 conference that's considered a very wealthy and lucrative set
of university teams. TV networks pay alot of money to broadcast Big 10
games including those that feature Penn State.

Finally my understanding is that no other sport or any other university
function at Penn State is allowed to help pay ie. suffer funding cuts
and that only the football operations can pay the fine.

What sense does it make to punish the students, coaches, local
businesses
that depend on revenue from Penn State football games, etc. Not just
now, but for years to come. They didn't molest anyone or know
anything
about what was going on. Those that did, ie the college officials,
can
be prosecuted and probably will be. They are the ones that should be
punished, not students playing football. One of the dumbest decisions
of all time.

{{

The reality is there is a mind set about collate sports. Unless and until
someone puts some serious snap in their shorts (with a down hill haul) the
abuse will continue. Perhaps not the same abuse but something just as
perverse.

On Jul 24, 4:41*pm, "
wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:11*pm, bob haller wrote:

penn state really derserved the death penalty, and the university should of been required to pay all school tuition room and board costs for all football players that would of had to change schools....

Yeah, how about all those students that will have their lives
disupted, that
won't receive Penn State scholarships. *Did they molest anyone? *Did
they
know anything? * So, why are they being punished for what a few dumb
officials did?



a 10 year death penalty would of sent a firm message to all schools.

Yeah, sure. *Just like any other penalty has had a big effect on
things like this.

Here's a novel idea. *Why not prosecute the Penn State officials that
were
actually involved in knowing about what was going on and allowing
Sandusky to stay there? * Oh, yeah, that's apparently in the works,
but
the thirst for blood can't wait.



the penalty should of been so over the top that no other school would run the risk of ever allowing child abuse

the 50 million dollar fine is one years average profit according to local news. penn state will pay it over 5 years......

the penalty should of been 10 times the 50 million

and penn state should of been prohibited from accepting and donations of $$ for the lenghhth of the death penalty

Why not just get a mob and go over there and burn Penn State to
the ground. *Makes as much sense.

Here's another thing to consider:
The entire football program, including fans and alumni, were to
"blame" in that the program became so huge that it pressured all the
higher ups to ignore decency and law in favor of preserving university
face. In that context the entire program had to be affected by the
sanctions in order to return to some level of normalcy. To do
anything less would only keep status quo at a level that might invite
other problems in the future. Better to deal with it once, get it
over with, and rebuild with pride.

"Duesenberg" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2012 4:35 PM, NotMe wrote:
wrote in message

Like police abuse those that employ them pay the cost of not overseeing
their actions.

Did the taxpayer have the opportunity to oversee their actions?

They hired those that did and like they say ... 'golden rule' he who
owns
the gold rules.

That said I would ask if those at the top are being left off the list.

As example Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett, "who has drawn criticism for
his
handling of the Sandusky investigation while serving as the state's
attorney
general and preparing for a gubernatorial run."



Penn state says it'll use it's own funds and if they fall short they
borrow the money privetly, not from taxpayers.

Penn State will be making 5 payments of $12 million over 5 years.

That's going forward. The point I was making was the voters/tax payers
were/are the ultimate boss and seems with the football culture as long as
the team was winning anything was good. And I'm well aware of other
schools/states with the same mind set.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

O

You have a good point. What is your suggestion? Certainly something
has to be done.

Fine and no bowl games is fine. But when you take away scholarships the
people you are really punishing are the people who would have gone to
college and now maybe can't.

Scholarships are fully transferable by the current recipients. They can stay
at Penn State and use the scholarships. My limited understanding is the
'Lost scholarships will be available to be used at other schools so the net
number of scholarships will not decrease.

"Duesenberg" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2012 9:12 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:57:06 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

I was reading that Penn State University has been fined $60m for failing
to
root out pervs.
(Money talks in the USA doesn't it?)
We have plenty of pervs over here too BTW.

So where does a university find that sort of money?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/usa-pennstate-idINL2E8INCC020120723

Multiply 94,000 seats times eight games times $50 per ticket (add a
little for
hot dogs) and what do you come up with? Now add television royalties and
post
season play...

You really are dumb.


My understanding is harryagain is British. He may not know how
Universities earn income from football in America.

I could be wrong that he is British but I'm under the assumption he is.

You are right, IamBritish.
University associated sport by and large does not make big money over here.
People go to university to further their academic career.
I believe a spot of buggery was traditional years ago, (before there were
many women students. :-)
However it was punishable by death back then. Maybe you should consider this
in your universities.
Or maybe it is already so?

The only exception I can think of is the Oxbridge boat race on the Thames
which has worldwide cover.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:04:13 -0400, Duesenberg wrote:

You really are dumb.


My understanding is harryagain is British. He may not know how
Universities earn income from football in America.

I could be wrong that he is British but I'm under the assumption he is.

He changes names, mostly posting under the nym harry. Nothing changes
with his lack of understanding of America.

He is not in favor of capitalism and free markets. Boy Scouts in the
UK are not allowed to have a pocket knife.
--

My name depends on if use Google or Evening September.
I have given up on Google.
..

There is no capitalsm or free market in America and no democracy either. You
don't know the meaning of the words.
You are a race of robotic, brainwashed serfs who only exist to keep the
rich in wealth.
Even if the rich **** up, your money is stolen to bail them out.
Your money is stolen by the government to finance for example foolish wars
that further enrich the already wealthy.
Their greed knows no bounds.
As the poor get poorer they are still getting more wealthy. They have a
foot on your neck.
What you need is a revolution.

On Jul 24, 7:32*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:09:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Finally my understanding is that no other sport or any other university
function at Penn State is allowed to help pay ie. suffer funding cuts
and that only the football operations can pay the fine.

What sense does it make to punish the students, coaches, local
businesses
that depend on revenue from Penn State football games, etc. *Not just
now, but for years to come. *They didn't molest anyone or know
anything
about what was going on. *Those that did, ie the college officials,
can
be prosecuted and probably will be. *They are the ones that should be
punished, not students playing football. *One of the dumbest decisions
of all time.

You have a good point. *What is your suggestion? *Certainly something
has to be done.

If it's financial punishment that you seek, it's still
coming in all the civil suits that are coming.

If it's criminal punishment, my understanding is
prosecutors are currently considering charges
against the officials involved. Based on the
Freeh report they have good cases for perjury.
In addition, they can likely pursue cases ranging
from child endagerment, to conspiracy. The latter
has penalties of up to 20 years. The case would
be based on these officials in essence conspiring
to enable Sandusky to commit his acts by knowing
what he had done and still allowing him access to
Penn State facilities that were key to him committing
the crimes.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:09:55 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote in
Re
OT Penn state university.:

What sense does it make to punish the students, coaches, local
businesses
that depend on revenue from Penn State football games, etc. Not just
now, but for years to come. They didn't molest anyone or know
anything
about what was going on.

That's like saying you shouldn't impose a large $$$ fine on a person
because it would adversely affect his innocent family.

Those that did, ie the college officials,
can
be prosecuted and probably will be.

I certainly hope so.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:43:00 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in Re OT
Penn state university.:

Fine and no bowl games is fine. But when you take away scholarships the
people you are really punishing are the people who would have gone to
college and now maybe can't. There are only so many scholarships and if
you take away those from Penn State, the people who normally would have
gone to PSU will still have options. But they will move people down to
the lesser teams and people who might have gone to Ball State, Butler,
etc., are on the street.

You do realize that they are talking about football scholarship used
to recruit football players? Very few football scholarship holders
(FSH) at a school like Penn State actually receive a college
education. No teacher who wants to keep his job would dare fail a FSH
in his class. Many FSHs never even show up for class. That's the way
it works.

On 7/25/2012 2:12 AM, harryagain wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
..

The Chinese work hard and the country is rich. Henry Ford created wealth.
Americans sit on their arses and think they can create wealth from a
computer screen and "markets".
Even now the half wits can't see their folly.



I wasn't aware this harry guy was a putz. I regret responding to his
posts now.

Live and learn...

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article , "NotMe"
wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

O

You have a good point. What is your suggestion? Certainly something
has to be done.

Fine and no bowl games is fine. But when you take away scholarships the
people you are really punishing are the people who would have gone to
college and now maybe can't.

Scholarships are fully transferable by the current recipients. They can stay
at Penn State and use the scholarships. My limited understanding is the
'Lost scholarships will be available to be used at other schools so the net
number of scholarships will not decrease.

That wasn't mentioned in the NCAA conference. If true it is the first
time that has happened in any other scholarship take away. I hope it is
right.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article ,
CRNG wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:43:00 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in Re OT
Penn state university.:

Fine and no bowl games is fine. But when you take away scholarships the
people you are really punishing are the people who would have gone to
college and now maybe can't. There are only so many scholarships and if
you take away those from Penn State, the people who normally would have
gone to PSU will still have options. But they will move people down to
the lesser teams and people who might have gone to Ball State, Butler,
etc., are on the street.

You do realize that they are talking about football scholarship used
to recruit football players? Very few football scholarship holders
(FSH) at a school like Penn State actually receive a college
education. No teacher who wants to keep his job would dare fail a FSH
in his class. Many FSHs never even show up for class. That's the way
it works.

Maybe, but as I mentioned, non-football mill schools also have
scholarships (Butler, Ball State, in my immediate area). These places
actually graduate a large number of their people. Since there are a
finite number of scholarships, those who would have gone to Penn State
obviously will end up somewhere else. But if they don't expand the
number of scholarships there will be a reshuffling all the way down the
line until eventually 20 people won't get them. These 20 will be at the
bottom of the list, and probably could actually use the scholarships.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

"Duesenberg" wrote in message
...

. . . Penn State University has been fined $60m for failing to
root out pervs.
(Money talks in the USA doesn't it?)
We have plenty of pervs over here too BTW.

So where does a university find that sort of money?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/usa-pennstate-idINL2E8INCC020120723
.
. . . 60 million is the fine because that's the typical revenue that Penn
State football earns in a given year. Penn State is still allowed to play
football this year so the majority of that fine money will come from this
years earnings on football and the remainder on future years football
earnings.

Penn State's stadium is the 2nd or 3rd largest stadium in the United
States, holding 105 000+ fans. They host 6 games this year so that's 600
000+ tickets sold right there. They also play in a "league" called the
big 10 conference that's considered a very wealthy and lucrative set of
university teams. TV networks pay alot of money to broadcast Big 10 games
including those that feature Penn State.

The USA is uniquely different in that intercollegiate team sports have
been ultra-popular for more than 100 years, i.e. are part of the national
system of mass entertainment/professional sport/big business. This
does not happen in other countries. Canadian university football is
not televised, French universities maintain no sports teams, the
only British intercollegiate contest to which the public pays attention
is the annual Boat Race between Oxford and Cambridge at London.

Correlatively, it seems profitable for Penn State and its backers to
build a 100,000-seat arena that is filled only six times a year. In
other places this would seem economic insanity.

The momentum of popular business-financed sports is also
relevant. City governments believe it is beneficial to have
winning basketball or hockey or baseball teams in their city,
thus can be persuaded to spend taxpayer dollars to subsidize
sports stadiums, induce teams to relocate, etc. This has more
to do with business activity than athletics or fitness.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:47:49 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 24, 7:32*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:09:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Finally my understanding is that no other sport or any other university
function at Penn State is allowed to help pay ie. suffer funding cuts
and that only the football operations can pay the fine.

What sense does it make to punish the students, coaches, local
businesses
that depend on revenue from Penn State football games, etc. *Not just
now, but for years to come. *They didn't molest anyone or know
anything
about what was going on. *Those that did, ie the college officials,
can
be prosecuted and probably will be. *They are the ones that should be
punished, not students playing football. *One of the dumbest decisions
of all time.

You have a good point. *What is your suggestion? *Certainly something
has to be done.

If it's financial punishment that you seek, it's still
coming in all the civil suits that are coming.

If it's criminal punishment, my understanding is
prosecutors are currently considering charges
against the officials involved. Based on the
Freeh report they have good cases for perjury.
In addition, they can likely pursue cases ranging
from child endagerment, to conspiracy. The latter
has penalties of up to 20 years. The case would
be based on these officials in essence conspiring
to enable Sandusky to commit his acts by knowing
what he had done and still allowing him access to
Penn State facilities that were key to him committing
the crimes.

Given that they allowed him access to the facilities, with the full knowledge
of his previous acts, I'd add "accomplice in fact", to the list of charges,
above.

On 7/25/2012 7:23 AM, Duesenberg wrote:
On 7/25/2012 2:12 AM, harryagain wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
.

The Chinese work hard and the country is rich. Henry Ford created
wealth.
Americans sit on their arses and think they can create wealth from a
computer screen and "markets".
Even now the half wits can't see their folly.



I wasn't aware this harry guy was a putz. I regret responding to his
posts now.

Live and learn...


No problem, seems to be a number of people here who haven't caught on
they are trying to have a "conversation" with folks who sit up at night
under their permanent dark cloud reciting their list of all of the
things they hate...

On Jul 25, 5:47*am, CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:09:55 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote in
Re
OT Penn state university.:

What sense does it make to punish the students, coaches, local
businesses
that depend on revenue from Penn State football games, etc. *Not just
now, but for years to come. *They didn't molest anyone or know
anything
about what was going on.

That's like saying you shouldn't impose a large $$$ fine on a person
because it would adversely affect his innocent family.

Well the effect it may have on the family is certainly
one of the things a judge takes into effect when
deciding on the amount of a fine. They generally won't
cripple a family and make them poor for a crime
daddy committed. And in this case, what they are
doing isn't fining daddy at all. The officials involved
aren't even at Penn State anymore. So, it would be
like daddy being long gone and the court levying a
heavy fine on the family.



Those that did, ie the college officials,
can
be prosecuted and probably will be.

I certainly hope so.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:04:13 -0400, Duesenberg wrote:

You really are dumb.


My understanding is harryagain is British. He may not know how
Universities earn income from football in America.

I could be wrong that he is British but I'm under the assumption he is.

He changes names, mostly posting under the nym harry. Nothing changes
with his lack of understanding of America.

He is not in favor of capitalism and free markets. Boy Scouts in the
UK are not allowed to have a pocket knife.
--

My name depends on if use Google or Evening September.
I have given up on Google.
.


That's OK
A lot of us have given up on you and only respond for the (very) cheap
entertainment you provide

"Duesenberg" wrote in message
...
On 7/25/2012 2:12 AM, harryagain wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
.

The Chinese work hard and the country is rich. Henry Ford created
wealth.
Americans sit on their arses and think they can create wealth from a
computer screen and "markets".
Even now the half wits can't see their folly.



I wasn't aware this harry guy was a putz. I regret responding to his
posts now.

Live and learn...


He's more like a defective sprinkler that is charged
Give it kick and it will spout some.
The trick is in kicking it in such a way, that it spouts something so inane
as to be funny.

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:12:58 AM UTC-5, Duesenberg wrote:
On 7/24/2012 2:57 AM, harryagain wrote:
> I was reading that Penn State University has been fined $60m for failing to
> root out pervs.
> (Money talks in the USA doesn't it?)
> We have plenty of pervs over here too BTW.
>
> So where does a university find that sort of money?
>
> <http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...C020120723>
>
>


It wasn't for failing to root out pervs, it was for covering up and
thwarting attempts to root out pervs.

60 million is the fine because that's the typical revenue that Penn
State football earns in a given year. Penn State is still allowed to
play football this year so the majority of that fine money will come
from this years earnings on football and the remainder on future years
football earnings.

Penn State's stadium is the 2nd or 3rd largest stadium in the United
States, holding 105 000+ fans. They host 6 games this year so that's
600 000+ tickets sold right there. They also play in a "league" called
the big 10 conference that's considered a very wealthy and lucrative set
of university teams. TV networks pay alot of money to broadcast Big 10
games including those that feature Penn State.

Finally my understanding is that no other sport or any other university
function at Penn State is allowed to help pay ie. suffer funding cuts
and that only the football operations can pay the fine.

And for all of these reasons, this should be a good, clear message to other college administrators that this is a no-tolerance situation. If they will take a program this size down, anyone is vulnerable.

And, sorry, I am not mourning for Paterno. The fact that school administrators didn't act after he learned of it, and blew a whistle, doesn't make him right. Lou probably had more horsepower at Penn that some of the administrators. He should have blow louder and kept blowing. What the hell were they going to do - fire him for reporting a child molestation? He, like others, buried his head. At the end of the day Lou Paterno was a coach. It doesn't matter if you are at the major college level, or pee-wee level, youth development and protection is then #1 mission.

He Failed!

RonB

On 7/25/2012 8:54 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Duesenberg" wrote in message
...
f money to broadcast Big 10 games
including those that feature Penn State.

The USA is uniquely different in that intercollegiate team sports have
been ultra-popular for more than 100 years, i.e. are part of the national
system of mass entertainment/professional sport/big business. This
does not happen in other countries. Canadian university football is
not televised, French universities maintain no sports teams, the
only British intercollegiate contest to which the public pays attention
is the annual Boat Race between Oxford and Cambridge at London.

Canadian University football is INDEED televised and has been for many
years. I always try to follow Queen's Golden Gaels games whenever I can

Certainly nowhere even close to the level of revenue that US university
games receive, and ratings share are much lower than their US
conterparts, however my point is that CIS football is televised
nationally in Canada and is widely accessible to cable and satellite
subscribers.

It is this years schedule for television:

http://english.cis-sic.ca/broadcast/football_sched

I can't find the French langauge schedules....

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:23:51 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in Re OT
Penn state university.:

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.

College football in the U.S. generates billions of $$ yearly. It's big
business and the players, who are required to play without pay, are
very highly sort after. Those 20 probably already have multiple
scholarship offers at other football-$$ colleges.

"CRNG" wrote in message
...

College football in the U.S. generates billions of $$ yearly. It's big
business and the players, who are required to play without pay, are
very highly sort after. Those 20 probably already have multiple
scholarship offers at other football-$$ colleges.

If they are any good at sports, they are scouted by other colleges, just as
the pro teams scout and offer the good players a beter job. All the players
do is sit back and take the best offer for them.

A local high school boy was great at basketball. Too dumb to score high
enough on the SAT to get in college, so he had special coaching on the
tests. He did not pay for any of that.

In article ,
CRNG wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:23:51 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in Re OT
Penn state university.:

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.

College football in the U.S. generates billions of $$ yearly. It's big
business and the players, who are required to play without pay, are
very highly sort after. Those 20 probably already have multiple
scholarship offers at other football-$$ colleges.

Let me try this one more time, I am obviously explaining this badly. I
am sure that those 20 will go somewhere else. Who I am worried about is
the 20 that won't get scholarships because of the 20 taken away from
PSU.
Since the number of scholarships in football is a finite number, if
20 scholarships at Penn State go away, then there are less scholarships
in total from the Big 10, down the through the MAC and others.

Try it this way:
50 over all scholarships:

10 BCS
10 Non-BCS but big schools
10 Mid Major
10 Small Division 1
10 Other divisions that have scholarships for football.

1 scholarship is taken away
That means, if no others are added anywhere else, that there are now
9 BCS, scholarships and one person who would have been been BCS is now
playing Non BCS but big footbal.
1 who would have been non-BCS but big now has to go to a Mid Major.
1 who was a mid major will now go to a small division
1 small division player will now play for a Other Division team and
1 who would have played other other division is out of luck.
It is the guy in the other division who won't be able to get a
college scholarship because of the fall down from the BCS school that I
think is getting screwed and why I am not a fan of taking away
scholarships. Period.
1 who was a
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 7/25/2012 1:33 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
CRNG wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:23:51 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in Re OT
Penn state university.:

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


Penn State will be allowed 65, that it makes sense that 20 transfers
will be asked for.

ANd that eventually 20 people (MUCH lower down the food chain) will not
be able to go to school on any kind of scholarship. That is also my
main problem with mandating one and done in College.

College football in the U.S. generates billions of $$ yearly. It's big
business and the players, who are required to play without pay, are
very highly sort after. Those 20 probably already have multiple
scholarship offers at other football-$$ colleges.

Let me try this one more time, I am obviously explaining this badly. I
am sure that those 20 will go somewhere else. Who I am worried about is
the 20 that won't get scholarships because of the 20 taken away from
PSU.


I understood what you were saying and I agree with it the most part.
Yes the top talent will go elsewhere (or maybe a few will actually
stay!) but it's the removal of scholarships that affects those on the
bottom of the rankings on Penn State's team. Those bottom ranked guys
won't be asked to go elsewhere and those are the dudes that actually
would have gone to class and get their degrees because they know their
future never would be in professional football. The bottom ranked
players lose the most!

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:

I understood what you were saying and I agree with it the most part.
Yes the top talent will go elsewhere (or maybe a few will actually
stay!) but it's the removal of scholarships that affects those on the
bottom of the rankings on Penn State's team. Those bottom ranked guys
won't be asked to go elsewhere and those are the dudes that actually
would have gone to class and get their degrees because they know their
future never would be in professional football. The bottom ranked
players lose the most!

Which is also my main thing with the one and done requirement in
basketball. You get a lot of soon-to-be multimillionaires hanging out on
campus at the expense of true student-athletes further down in the food
chain.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 7/25/2012 2:49 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Duesenberg
wrote:

I understood what you were saying and I agree with it the most part.
Yes the top talent will go elsewhere (or maybe a few will actually
stay!) but it's the removal of scholarships that affects those on the
bottom of the rankings on Penn State's team. Those bottom ranked guys
won't be asked to go elsewhere and those are the dudes that actually
would have gone to class and get their degrees because they know their
future never would be in professional football. The bottom ranked
players lose the most!

Which is also my main thing with the one and done requirement in
basketball. You get a lot of soon-to-be multimillionaires hanging out on
campus at the expense of true student-athletes further down in the food
chain.

Yup, you've nailed it, however:

The NBA forced "one and done" on the Colleges. Basically the NBA added
an age requirement, 19 or 20 I can't remember, meaning that high school
players could no longer "graduate" high school and join the nba. Until a
few years ago, the age requirement to play in NBA was 18.

So what is an 18 year old basketball star supposed to do? Stay home for
a year and watch his star diminish?

I don't know how the NCAA can fix the one and done rule. You can't
force students to be students if they want to quit school. How many of
us or have kids, took college or university and quit after a year or
completely changed their program. I quit college twice myself. Wasn't
it better that I quit and free up resources for somebody else who wnats
to be there?

The NFL had age requirements. I think you can't be eligible to play in
the NFL until 3 years after high school graduation. Major league
Baseball has a long development program. If one and done is to be
changed, it'll have to be changed from the NBA end.

One and done makes a mockery of the term student-athlete, I agree with
you there, but I think any change has to be initiated from the pros, not
the NCAA. The NBA has to say something like You need 2 or 3 or 4 years
min of college "education" before becoming eligible to play in the NBA.

You know and I know that a star college athlete doesn't give two flying
****s about getting a degree. Maybe the odd athlete does, and will
complete it, 12 or 15 years later when their pro career is done. You
could get rid of one and done and force those stars to stay longer but
they still won't be getting an education, except on how to beat their
opponents.

Let's just hope that those "who know they'll be going professional in
something other than sports" make the most of their opportunities.
Those are the athletes I want to see succeed!

In article , Duesenberg
wrote:


I don't know how the NCAA can fix the one and done rule. You can't
force students to be students if they want to quit school. How many of
us or have kids, took college or university and quit after a year or
completely changed their program. I quit college twice myself. Wasn't
it better that I quit and free up resources for somebody else who wnats
to be there?

Refuse admission on an athletic scholarship and then let the Union
take care of it. IIRC this was something that is part of the CBA so both
the union and the NBA foisted it on the NCAA


The NFL had age requirements. I think you can't be eligible to play in
the NFL until 3 years after high school graduation. Major league
Baseball has a long development program. If one and done is to be
changed, it'll have to be changed from the NBA end.

I always though that MLB was the only sport that got it right. You
could go into college OR trade school (the minors). The really dumb
conceit in the rest of the sports is that everyone HAS to go to college
to play.


One and done makes a mockery of the term student-athlete, I agree with
you there, but I think any change has to be initiated from the pros, not
the NCAA. The NBA has to say something like You need 2 or 3 or 4 years
min of college "education" before becoming eligible to play in the NBA.
IIRC I don't think they can. Seems there was a law suit YEARS ago
that said they couldn't.


--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

And, sorry, I am not mourning for Paterno. The fact that school administrators didn't act after he learned of it, and blew a whistle, doesn't make him right.
Lou probably had more horsepower at Penn that some of the administrators. He should have blow louder and kept blowing.
What the hell were they going to do - fire him for reporting a child molestation? He, like others, buried his head.
At the end of the day Lou Paterno was a coach. It doesn't matter if you are at the major college level, or pee-wee level, youth development and protection is then #1 mission.

He Failed!


I had no idea that Joe's brother coached too.

On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40:42 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>And, sorry, I am not mourning for Paterno. The fact that school administrators didn't act after he learned of it, and blew a whistle, doesn't make him right.
> Lou probably had more horsepower at Penn that some of the administrators. He should have blow louder and kept blowing.
>What the hell were they going to do - fire him for reporting a child molestation? He, like others, buried his head.
> At the end of the day Lou Paterno was a coach. It doesn't matter if you are at the major college level, or pee-wee level, youth development and protection is then #1 mission.
>
>He Failed!
>

I had no idea that Joe's brother coached t00.

Oooops Joe, Lou, Larry, Curley, Moe. We know who I'm talking about.

they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......

source internet news this am

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......

source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

On Jul 25, 9:08*am, "
wrote:


It's not limited to us Yanks. *Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. *It's a human emotion called "pride". *And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. *As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. *Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. *If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. Pride = attendance = income. At
least that's my viewpoint.

On Jul 26, 12:03*pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08*am, "
wrote:



It's not limited to us Yanks. *Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. *It's a human emotion called "pride". *And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. *As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. *Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. *If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. *Pride = attendance = income. *At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.


So, sorry, but don't buy the pride thing. It just looks
like a bunch of dumbies to me. Dumbies who perhaps
put Sandusky above Penn State pride.

RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they
richly deserved it.......

source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". They got off with a very hard
slap; and a clear message to other programs.


Don't forget that the NCAA and its membership is a fairly compact society -
everybody knows everybody and has for years and years. If the NCAA issued
TOO big a penalty, the coaches, sports directors, etc., may worry that the
same could happen to them. Those in decision-making positions at the NCAA
could very well be replaced by a worried membership.

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
> they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......
>
> source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

if you follow the news, the NCAA told the university the death penalty was under consideration, so penn state agreed to not fight any other discpline.

they really should of gotten a 5 year death penalty followed by 5 years no bowls.

so all other schools would never run the risk of doing anything stupid in the future.

the sad part is other schools have probably done similiar dumb things, but just havent been caught......

I was reading that Penn State University
has been fined $60m for failing to root
out pervs.

(Money talks in the USA doesn't it?)

We have plenty of pervs over here too
BTW.

So where does a university find that sort
of money?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/usa-pennstate-idINL2E8INCC020120723

Pay no attention to the "toothless geek behind the curtain."

I've been reading this group for 5-6 years and Harry is nothing, if not
a rotten toothed troll...

Yes they have plenty of pervs OVER there....Don't they?

But very few dentists....This troll will start a thread and you guys
just jump right in, to feed the toothless wonder.sorry for all you fine
peeps who have "IT" killfiled!

This KFed' troll is worth his weight in
entertainment and decayed teeth...

I see him now, sitting at his/her/it's keyboard, trying to think of one
more way to RIP the USA. As if good ol' Brits
are clean of any past accusations.

OFF WITH HER HEAD. "SAID THE FAT MAN TO THE HEAD CUTTER-OFFERER"

HEH,HEH...

On Jul 26, 4:48*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
> they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......
>
> source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". *They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

if you follow the news, the NCAA told the university the death penalty was under consideration, so penn state agreed to not fight any other discpline.

they really should of gotten a 5 year death penalty followed by 5 years no bowls.

so all other schools would never run the risk *of doing anything stupid in the future.

That's worked real well in other cases, right?
Like where we've fine corporations huge amounts.
No corporation ever did anything wrong again, right?

Or how about where we put people in jail for
life, really for life, that's eliminated murder,
right?

All you doing is punishing the innocent that
had nothing to do with what happened. And
mainly new people coming to Penn State, or
who would have come to Penn State on a
scholarship. They were in high school or
not even born when Sandusky was molesting
kids. Those actually guilty, they aren't even
there anymore.

This is kind of like a dictator where if someone
in a particular town betrayed him, he sends the
army to kill the entire town.




the sad part is other schools have probably done similiar dumb things, but just havent been caught......

It wasn't just dumb, it was criminal. And that's why
those responsible should be prosecuted instead
of hurting folks who have nothing to do with it.

On 7/26/2012 12:44 PM, wrote:
On Jul 26, 12:03 pm, Red wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:08 am, "
wrote:



It's not limited to us Yanks. Most Europeans feel the same about
their soccer teams. It's a human emotion called "pride". And history
tells us what happens when pride becomes a "god" in our lives. As
Penn State just found out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not sure pride or anything else has much to do
about this. Anyway you analyze what went on at Penn State it was just
dumb. If anything, it looks more about
protecting certain individuals than Penn State's image.,

The actions of Sandusky had nothing to do with pride but the ensuing
coverup surely did, by protecting university individuals to try to
keep the story from going public. Pride = attendance = income. At
least that's my viewpoint.

I would buy that IF the Penn State officials had gotten
rid of Sandusky. If they were worried about the pride and
image of Penn State, why on earth would they keep
Sandusky around, knowing what he was up to? Any
thinking person could see that this was a potential bomb
waiting to take the whole thing down, pride and all.
And that the probability of it blowing up on them is
high. A child sex abuser who's 60 does not reform.


You don't seem to be very familiar with big organizations where all
moral compasses have been disabled in favor of the "good" of the
organization. Their entire culture was to do everything "for the team".
They were so arrogant they thought they could simply ignore it up and
maybe all of their mindless followers would even defend them when the
rape of young boys was uncovered. Ever hear of an organization where a
statue of a living person was placed at a main entrance as in the
recently removed that never should have been there Paterno statue? Thats
mindless "for the team" worship.



So, sorry, but don't buy the pride thing. It just looks
like a bunch of dumbies to me. Dumbies who perhaps
put Sandusky above Penn State pride.

On 7/26/2012 5:33 PM, wrote:
On Jul 26, 4:48 pm, bob haller wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:22:58 AM UTC-4, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:37:26 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
> they nearly got a 4 year death penalty, and they should have they richly deserved it.......
>
> source internet news this am

Death penalties are not "nearly". They got off with a very hard slap; and a clear message to other programs.

RonB

if you follow the news, the NCAA told the university the death penalty was under consideration, so penn state agreed to not fight any other discpline.

they really should of gotten a 5 year death penalty followed by 5 years no bowls.

so all other schools would never run the risk of doing anything stupid in the future.

That's worked real well in other cases, right?
Like where we've fine corporations huge amounts.
No corporation ever did anything wrong again, right?

Its a good start and a lot better than say the bank bailouts where we
basically said "good job boys".



Or how about where we put people in jail for
life, really for life, that's eliminated murder,
right?

Do you have some stats comparing a identical to ours society were there
are no punishments as deterrents vs our current system of criminal codes?


All you doing is punishing the innocent that
had nothing to do with what happened. And
mainly new people coming to Penn State, or
who would have come to Penn State on a
scholarship. They were in high school or
not even born when Sandusky was molesting
kids. Those actually guilty, they aren't even
there anymore.

This is kind of like a dictator where if someone
in a particular town betrayed him, he sends the
army to kill the entire town.



They had a totally broken "everything for the team" culture. Water
needed to be thrown on it to extinguish it and send a message that the
"anything for the team" culture was broken and wrong.




the sad part is other schools have probably done similiar dumb things, but just havent been caught......

It wasn't just dumb, it was criminal. And that's why
those responsible should be prosecuted instead
of hurting folks who have nothing to do with it.


It was greatly enabled by the mindless "anything for the team" culture.