"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Guess what.... of course it didn't lite up! Seems like the sodium bulbs
were mixed in with the metal halide bulbs, in the hardware store, and I
was just looking for "70W".

The Q is: Did it harm the ballast? The bulb was in there for a few
minutes, while I mucked around (25 feet up in a tree), tryna figger stuff
out, before I noticed the "MH" designation on the bulb... A short length
of the glass stem glowed very slightly.

So, I disconnected the fixture (70 W) from power altogether, until I can
(hopefully) exchange the bulb.
I doubt the bulb was harmed. Man, these things aren't cheap.... almost
$22 for the metal halide bulb.

These bulbs are really inneresting in design. Not sure what does what,
but the insides are neat.
I assume most of these bulbs are similar to regular ole fluorescents in
principle, where the atom at hand needs to be vaporized, then ionized
(ignited), then kept in a steady state current.

Have no fear..... put in the sodium bulb ($7 cheaper), lit right up. I
musta done 1/4 mile worth of climbing for this g-d buhb....

I tell ya, not to go off on a luminous rant, but lighting, at least in pubic
places, seems to almost smack of hostility.
Sodium lamps, around for AGES (60 years, mebbe, from the 50's??), really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer typical
parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the harshest way.
Carbon arcs proly give softer light....

Now we have these miserable-assed CFLs....

LED traffic lites/brake lites pert near puncture yer retinas..... At night,
at a red light (harsh unto itself, if LED), I"ll often have to drop down my
sun visor, until the car in front of me starts moving..... holy ****....

And neighbors, with their effing "security lighting", apparently don't
understand "indirect", "diffuse", or "cover"....

No breaks, yo, no breaks.
--
EA






--
EA

On May 17, 10:18*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...





Awl --

Guess what.... *of course it didn't lite up! *Seems like the sodium bulbs
were mixed in with the metal halide bulbs, in the hardware store, and I
was just looking for "70W".

The Q is: *Did it harm the ballast? *The bulb was in there for a few
minutes, while I mucked around (25 feet up in a tree), tryna figger stuff
out, before I noticed the "MH" designation on the bulb... *A short length
of the glass stem glowed very slightly.

So, I disconnected the fixture (70 W) from power altogether, until I can
(hopefully) exchange the bulb.
I doubt the bulb was harmed. *Man, these things aren't cheap.... *almost
$22 for the metal halide bulb.

These bulbs are really inneresting in design. *Not sure what does what,
but the insides are neat.
I assume most of these bulbs are similar to regular ole fluorescents in
principle, where the atom at hand needs to be vaporized, then ionized
(ignited), then kept in a steady state current.

Have no fear..... *put in the sodium bulb ($7 cheaper), lit right up. *I
musta done 1/4 mile worth of climbing for this g-d buhb....

I tell ya, not to go off on a luminous rant, but lighting, at least in pubic
places, seems to almost smack of hostility.
Sodium lamps, around for AGES (60 years, mebbe, from the 50's??), really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer typical
parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the harshest way.
Carbon arcs proly give softer light....

Now we have these miserable-assed CFLs....

LED traffic lites/brake lites pert near puncture yer retinas..... *At night,
at a red light (harsh unto itself, if LED), I"ll often have to drop down my
sun visor, until the car in front of me starts moving..... *holy ****.....

And neighbors, with their effing "security lighting", apparently don't
understand "indirect", "diffuse", or "cover"....

No breaks, yo, no breaks.
--
EA



--
EA

I like CFLs and anixiousy await affordable LEDS.

the early CFLs were poor quality, costly, didnt last long, and light
quality poor.

but current ones not from a dollar store are actually very good.

and in a parking lot light situation who cares about color rendetion?

the only lights i really hate are the new super brilliant ones on
police cars and emergency vehicles. so brite they are a distraction of
their own.

and the super brite blue headlights on newer vehicles are really
unsafe they can temporarily blind drivers

On 05/18/12 03:48 am, bob haller wrote:

I like CFLs and anixiousy await affordable LEDS.

the early CFLs were poor quality, costly, didnt last long, and light
quality poor.

but current ones not from a dollar store are actually very good.

and in a parking lot light situation who cares about color rendetion?

the only lights i really hate are the new super brilliant ones on
police cars and emergency vehicles. so brite they are a distraction of
their own.

and the super brite blue headlights on newer vehicles are really
unsafe they can temporarily blind drivers

I know they said that about halogen bulbs. Before that, they said it
about sealed-beam headlights. Earlier still, they said it about the
system where both headlights dipped instead of turning one off
altogether. They probably said the same about the change from carbide to
electric.

Perce

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer
typical parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the
harshest way. Carbon arcs proly give softer light....


Where do you get those opinions? I think you're expressing personal
preferences, not the general consensus.

The general consensus is that most people HATE sodium vapor lights.
Sodium vapor light kills virtually all color perception. They're used
for only one reason -- they're the most efficient lamp. They emit almost
a single line, and you can even see interference rings around a sodium
vapor lamp viewed from far enough away to make it appear as a point
source.

Most parking lot lights are _not_ metal halide, but mercury vapor -- next
in efficiency, and emitting a light closer to white than sodium vapor.
But their light IS harsh and bluish to the eye ("garish" is a good term).
Color perception is still disrupted somewhat by the blue tint.

Enter metal halide lamps. They give an almost "true" white, allow for
very good color vision, and don't appear tinted to the naked eye.
They're still quite efficient.



FWIW, you can buy metal halide lamps that have been designed to work on a
sodium ballast. I have some in my barn that have been used almost every
day for nearly 15 years. I got mine from MSC back in 1996. Still goin'
strong.

LLoyd

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On May 17, 10:18 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message

...





Awl --

Guess what.... of course it didn't lite up! Seems like the sodium bulbs
were mixed in with the metal halide bulbs, in the hardware store, and I
was just looking for "70W".

The Q is: Did it harm the ballast? The bulb was in there for a few
minutes, while I mucked around (25 feet up in a tree), tryna figger
stuff
out, before I noticed the "MH" designation on the bulb... A short length
of the glass stem glowed very slightly.

So, I disconnected the fixture (70 W) from power altogether, until I can
(hopefully) exchange the bulb.
I doubt the bulb was harmed. Man, these things aren't cheap.... almost
$22 for the metal halide bulb.

These bulbs are really inneresting in design. Not sure what does what,
but the insides are neat.
I assume most of these bulbs are similar to regular ole fluorescents in
principle, where the atom at hand needs to be vaporized, then ionized
(ignited), then kept in a steady state current.

Have no fear..... put in the sodium bulb ($7 cheaper), lit right up. I
musta done 1/4 mile worth of climbing for this g-d buhb....

I tell ya, not to go off on a luminous rant, but lighting, at least in
pubic
places, seems to almost smack of hostility.
Sodium lamps, around for AGES (60 years, mebbe, from the 50's??), really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer
typical
parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the harshest way.
Carbon arcs proly give softer light....

Now we have these miserable-assed CFLs....

LED traffic lites/brake lites pert near puncture yer retinas..... At
night,
at a red light (harsh unto itself, if LED), I"ll often have to drop down
my
sun visor, until the car in front of me starts moving..... holy ****....

And neighbors, with their effing "security lighting", apparently don't
understand "indirect", "diffuse", or "cover"....

No breaks, yo, no breaks.
--
EA



--
EA

I like CFLs and anixiousy await affordable LEDS.

the early CFLs were poor quality, costly, didnt last long, and light
quality poor.

but current ones not from a dollar store are actually very good.

and in a parking lot light situation who cares about color rendetion?

the only lights i really hate are the new super brilliant ones on
police cars and emergency vehicles. so brite they are a distraction of
their own.

and the super brite blue headlights on newer vehicles are really
unsafe they can temporarily blind drivers
=================================================

Absolutely. And expensive, fwih -- another "extortion by technology".
--
EA

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer
typical parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the
harshest way. Carbon arcs proly give softer light....


Where do you get those opinions? I think you're expressing personal
preferences, not the general consensus.

The general consensus is that most people HATE sodium vapor lights.
Sodium vapor light kills virtually all color perception. They're used
for only one reason -- they're the most efficient lamp. They emit almost
a single line, and you can even see interference rings around a sodium
vapor lamp viewed from far enough away to make it appear as a point
source.

Dude -- it's outside, at nite, it's not an art museum....
The light is *soft* -- well, at least a bearable compromise between soft
and cheap.

I don't really understand people's "expectations" with lite. There are NYC
subway stations so brightly lit (fluorescent tubes) you need sunglasses AND
sunscreen -- a profligate waste of photons.
But then..... NYC *is* profligate....

I tell people, Dudes, it's a fukn SUBWAY station, not a g-d liberry.....


Most parking lot lights are _not_ metal halide, but mercury vapor -- next
in efficiency, and emitting a light closer to white than sodium vapor.
But their light IS harsh and bluish to the eye ("garish" is a good term).
Color perception is still disrupted somewhat by the blue tint.

Enter metal halide lamps. They give an almost "true" white, allow for
very good color vision, and don't appear tinted to the naked eye.
They're still quite efficient.

I'll take the sodium yellow any day. I no need no "true white" walking home
at midnight.... I no need no "true color perception". I no mind
interference rings.....
All's I want is sumpn easy on the eyes....




FWIW, you can buy metal halide lamps that have been designed to work on a
sodium ballast. I have some in my barn that have been used almost every
day for nearly 15 years. I got mine from MSC back in 1996. Still goin'
strong.

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last more than
2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your bulb?
Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--
EA




LLoyd

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in 1996.

But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn. They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work on
a car without a drop light.

LLoyd

On May 18, 4:08*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Existential Angst" fired this volley :

*really
have an "optically humane" output, visavis effing metal halide, yer
typical parking lot lighting, which are positively garish, in the
harshest way. Carbon arcs proly give softer light....

Where do you get those opinions? I think you're expressing personal
preferences, not the general consensus.

The general consensus is that most people HATE sodium vapor lights.
Sodium vapor light kills virtually all color perception. *They're used
for only one reason -- they're the most efficient lamp. *They emit almost
a single line, and you can even see interference rings around a sodium
vapor lamp viewed from far enough away to make it appear as a point
source.

Most parking lot lights are _not_ metal halide, but mercury vapor -- next
in efficiency, and emitting a light closer to white than sodium vapor.
But their light IS harsh and bluish to the eye ("garish" is a good term).
Color perception is still disrupted somewhat by the blue tint.

Enter metal halide lamps. *They give an almost "true" white, allow for
very good color vision, and don't appear tinted to the naked eye.
They're still quite efficient.

FWIW, you can buy metal halide lamps that have been designed to work on a
sodium ballast. *I have some in my barn that have been used almost every
day for nearly 15 years. *I got mine from MSC back in 1996. *Still goin'
strong.

LLoyd

It is my understanding that these sodium lights produce light that can
easily be removed by the astronomers. In other words, remove the
normal 'glare' from a nearby city.

When first proferred the manufacturers touted how these 'harsh' lights
used in parking lots lowered crime rates, because felon minded perps
couldn't stand the light. Wish I'd saved a copy of that!

These lights DO remove color from view. Once at night, I parked my car
along a clearly painted RED CURB fire lane, because in the light from
these sodium lights the red curb lost ALL color. I checked when I
parked, no red curb. When I fought the ticket, the judge said I should
rely on the signs to tell me not to park there, which were only 40
feet away!

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in 1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn. They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

I would have probably used eight 200 W fixtures in 8,000 sq ft.... then
mebbe you wouldn't need that drop light!
--
EA



LLoyd

On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in 1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn. They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

When I was doing a lot of industrial photography and I'd encounter
those suckers, I'd ask, only slightly facetiously, if anyone had a .22
pistol I could use to shoot them out. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



I would have probably used eight 200 W fixtures in 8,000 sq ft.... then
mebbe you wouldn't need that drop light!

"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city street light bulbs last that long?

Each. Remember, they were "conversion" bulbs. Extra. But still cheaper
than buying a metal halide lamp AND a metal halide ballast of that quality.

These were old military fixtures, made in the early 80s, and still (but
one) running on the original ballasts. I have one spare ballast left.
THEN I have to spend real bucks.

LLoyd

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
8.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in 1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?
Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which was
my intention.

As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the
intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the bend
my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing condoms,
napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering trees,
etc.
So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole twin
outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but still
far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my above
rant.... hilarious....
But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside my
house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought, like, a
used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of my
house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be good
for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so at
8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!! goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as
neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a number of
QOL issues, as well.
Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but
geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.
--
EA








When I was doing a lot of industrial photography and I'd encounter
those suckers, I'd ask, only slightly facetiously, if anyone had a .22
pistol I could use to shoot them out. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



I would have probably used eight 200 W fixtures in 8,000 sq ft.... then
mebbe you wouldn't need that drop light!

On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
68.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in 1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.


As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the
intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the bend
my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing condoms,
napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering trees,
etc.
So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole twin
outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but still
far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my above
rant.... hilarious....
But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside my
house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought, like, a
used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of my
house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be good
for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Yonkers presents a lot of unusual business opportunities. d8-)


Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so at
8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!! goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as
neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a number of
QOL issues, as well.
Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but
geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.

I have fond memories of Yonkers from when I lived in Mt. Vernon, at
ages 8 and 9. My two horse-racing uncles used to drive in the harness
races there. They knew who would win, so I always came home with
money. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@216. 168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL




As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the
intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the bend
my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing condoms,
napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering trees,
etc.
So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole twin
outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but
still
far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my above
rant.... hilarious....
But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside my
house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought, like,
a
used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of my
house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be good
for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Yonkers presents a lot of unusual business opportunities. d8-)

Heh, esp for the pols.... Sanda Annabi being the latest. A convicted
councilwoman concubine.... LOL
I dint know nookie could be so expensive.... mebbe I should raise the rate
on dat Escalade.... LOL

Fukn ex-mayer Amicone dutifully perpetuated the mafia/eyetalian connection,
but never got caught.



Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so
at
8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!!
goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as
neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a number
of
QOL issues, as well.
Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but
geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.

I have fond memories of Yonkers from when I lived in Mt. Vernon, at
ages 8 and 9. My two horse-racing uncles used to drive in the harness
races there. They knew who would win, so I always came home with
money. d8-)

It's now Empire City, a full-service casino. I think the only thing Empire
is missing is VIP/massage rooms for the high rollers.... altho there ought
to be a Homey Room.....
--
EA



--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@216 .168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_ work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.






As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the
intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the bend
my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing condoms,
napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering trees,
etc.
So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole twin
outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but
still
far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my above
rant.... hilarious....
But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside my
house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought, like,
a
used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of my
house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be good
for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Yonkers presents a lot of unusual business opportunities. d8-)

Heh, esp for the pols.... Sanda Annabi being the latest. A convicted
councilwoman concubine.... LOL
I dint know nookie could be so expensive.... mebbe I should raise the rate
on dat Escalade.... LOL

Fukn ex-mayer Amicone dutifully perpetuated the mafia/eyetalian connection,
but never got caught.



Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so
at
8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!!
goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as
neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a number
of
QOL issues, as well.
Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but
geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.

I have fond memories of Yonkers from when I lived in Mt. Vernon, at
ages 8 and 9. My two horse-racing uncles used to drive in the harness
races there. They knew who would win, so I always came home with
money. d8-)

It's now Empire City, a full-service casino. I think the only thing Empire
is missing is VIP/massage rooms for the high rollers.... altho there ought
to be a Homey Room.....

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@21 6.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref. star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

No city street lites for astronomers, eh? LOL

Hey, where is everybody?? People got lives out there?? Even Stormin???
Hard to imagine... LOL
--
EA








As a mildly humorous addendum, these sodium lites didn't quite solve the
intended problem, to remove the dark privacy of a lover's lane on the
bend
my hovel is on..... christ, I needed a broom for all the effing
condoms,
napkins, paraphernalia....

The pro'leng wadn't the sodium-ness, but the location, interfering
trees,
etc.
So to finally solve the problem, I reluctantly installed regular ole
twin
outdoor floods on the corner of my hovel, closest to Condom Alley, but
still
far enough away that I needed, well..... wattage AND garish!

And garish I got.... I'm my own worst offender, now, apropos of my
above
rant.... hilarious....
But, for a higher cause..... I mean, why should I have people outside
my
house getting it, when.... oh, never mind.....

But, it did present a nice bidniss opportunity.... I coulda bought,
like,
a
used Escalade -- or even a pickup with a cap -- and left it in front of
my
house, cut the illumination, and rented it out by the hour!! I'd be
good
for, like, $400 a nite!!!!

Yonkers presents a lot of unusual business opportunities. d8-)

Heh, esp for the pols.... Sanda Annabi being the latest. A convicted
councilwoman concubine.... LOL
I dint know nookie could be so expensive.... mebbe I should raise the
rate
on dat Escalade.... LOL

Fukn ex-mayer Amicone dutifully perpetuated the mafia/eyetalian
connection,
but never got caught.



Now, to figger out what to do about the Humping Duos who choose to do so
at
8 a.m. in the morning!!! I mean, we're talkin SUNLIGHT!!!!
goodgawd....

Inyway, I have these lites on timers, and have them angled, to be as
neighbor-friendly as poss -- undeserving as they are.

Heh, but it has been a remarkable successs, seems to have solved a
number
of
QOL issues, as well.
Woulda much preferred a more proximal and subtler Sodium solution, but
geography just wouldn't permit it.

Never a dull moment.

I have fond memories of Yonkers from when I lived in Mt. Vernon, at
ages 8 and 9. My two horse-racing uncles used to drive in the harness
races there. They knew who would win, so I always came home with
money. d8-)

It's now Empire City, a full-service casino. I think the only thing
Empire
is missing is VIP/massage rooms for the high rollers.... altho there
ought
to be a Homey Room.....

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref. star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Then there's krypton-86...but let's not go there.


No city street lites for astronomers, eh? LOL

Hey, where is everybody?? People got lives out there?? Even Stormin???
Hard to imagine... LOL

Some people have lives on Friday nights. I have Yankees games. I'll
have to call the guys at Modern Machine Shop on Monday and gloat about
shutting out the Reds tonight.

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref. star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't
last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand
of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I
recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200
in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder
if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about
the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my
barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....

And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I
think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination,
but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they
can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose
the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it
since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars.
Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting,
which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still
blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are
used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref.
star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to
astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Well, strictly speaking, sea-salt is IONIC sodium with different lines than
atomic sodium.
There are also calcium, potassium, magnesium salts.
But no matter, whatever works....
Overall perty fascinating, tho.

You'd figger that scientists smart enough to figger all this out (I imagine
this adaptive optics stuff is no easy slam dunk) would be smart enough to
measure the temperature of the earth, eh?? LOL
--
EA



Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't
last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand
of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I
recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200
in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder
if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about
the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my
barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....

And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I
think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination,
but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they
can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose
the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it
since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars.
Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting,
which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still
blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are
used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref.
star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to
astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Well, strictly speaking, sea-salt is IONIC sodium with different lines than
atomic sodium.
There are also calcium, potassium, magnesium salts.
But no matter, whatever works....
Overall perty fascinating, tho.

You'd figger that scientists smart enough to figger all this out (I imagine
this adaptive optics stuff is no easy slam dunk) would be smart enough to
measure the temperature of the earth, eh?? LOL

The hard part is measuring it to tenths of a degree before the invention
of thermometers and temperature standards, so we can distinguish noise
from warming (or cooling) trend.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley
in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced
didn't
last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the
brand
of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted
metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I
recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about
$200
in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I
wonder
if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just
about
the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my
barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can
_almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole
70W....

And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice.
I
think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway
illumination,
but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The
low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that
they
can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually
lose
the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it
since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe
a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis
on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in
some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would
photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars.
Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It
was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city
lighting,
which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be
low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low
pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still
blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are
used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref.
star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to
astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium
atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Well, strictly speaking, sea-salt is IONIC sodium with different lines
than
atomic sodium.
There are also calcium, potassium, magnesium salts.
But no matter, whatever works....
Overall perty fascinating, tho.

You'd figger that scientists smart enough to figger all this out (I
imagine
this adaptive optics stuff is no easy slam dunk) would be smart enough to
measure the temperature of the earth, eh?? LOL

The hard part is measuring it to tenths of a degree before the invention
of thermometers and temperature standards, so we can distinguish noise
from warming (or cooling) trend.

And, apparently, having the sense not to place sed thermometers over square
miles of black asphalt... LOL
--
EA



Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:22:32 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced didn't last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the brand of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about $200 in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I wonder if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just about the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can _almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole 70W....
And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice. I think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway illumination, but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that they can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually lose the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars. Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city lighting, which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref. star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Joe Gwinn

Hmm. 'Sounds interesting.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 19 May 2012 17:42:46 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 18 May 2012 22:28:32 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:00:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 15:29:22 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:41:20 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
message
news:XnsA0576C5905484lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...
"Existential Angst" fired this volley
in
:

From 1996???? Holy ****, this sodium bulb I replaced
didn't
last
more than 2 years, operates about 7 hrs a day.
The brand I just bought is Plusrite. Do you recall the
brand
of
your
bulb? Does metal halide last longer than sodium?

Sodium lamps are quite a bit cheaper than metal halide.
--

Sodium lamps are a LOT cheaper than the sodium-ballasted
metal
halide
version. But, they last and last (on a good ballast).

The lamps I bought were industrial-quality GE lamps, and I
recall
the
400W lamps (sodium-ballast conversion variety) being about
$200
in
1996.

Would that be $200 each, or for all 4?
Incredible, tho, that they've been going for 16 years!! I
wonder
if
city
street light bulbs last that long?



But they're still up, still burning bright, and have just
about
the
same
warm-up time as they did when new.

I have four of these explosion-proof 400W 208V fixtures in my
barn.
They
light up the whole 8000 sq.ft. very effectively. I can
_almost_
work
on
a car without a drop light.

400 W is heavy duty.... My sodium fixtures are a whole
70W....

And even 70 W compete perty well with the city street lights.

But for indoor work, metal halide would be the better choice.
I
think
the
sodium yellow is great for night-time street/highway
illumination,
but
would
be pretty drab in an indoor work environment.

Not only drab. but potentially a bit dangerous. The
low-pressure
versions used for outdoor lighting are so monochromatic that
they
can
make different colors look like the same color. You actually
lose
the
ability to separate some objects.

I gather the high pressure versions are not as bad?

Supposedly. I forget a lot of this, not having had to recall it
since
I was a magazine staffer, but I think the high-pressure types are
actually mixed vapors and they have a broader spectrum. Or maybe
a
wavy spectrum with various spikes, which is more likely. Emphasis
on
"I think."

For photography, they all suck. Really, really suck. I'd mix in
some
incandescent light and sometimes flash, and people would
photograph
with faces that looked like tutti-frutti ice cream from Mars.
Shadows
under their eyebrows would be blue; cheeks would be orange. It
was
quite a sight.

Mine are high pressure -- quite consistent with the city
lighting,
which
was
my intention.

City lighting, unless things have changed, used to be
low-pressure.
They're a lot more efficient.

You'd think high pressure would be more efficient than low
pressure.
If the city lites are low pressure, my high pressure stuff still
blends in
well.

Procrastinating a bit over here, I was reading the box of the high
pressure
sodium buhb, *sez there's mercury*!!
Which would explain the broader spectrum.
If both have Hg, then there goes *dat* explanation.... LOL

Aha! No, I think you've hit it. That sounds familiar. Low-pressure,
high-efficiency bulbs are sodium only.

Another sodium tiddy-bitty:

Ahm watchin some Universe sumpn or other -- such shows I believe are
used to
further mind**** us -- and they're talking about adaptive optics on
telescopes, which via pyooters shift many small mirrors using a ref.
star to
get rid of atmospheric "astigmatism" -- a bit of a recent boon to
astronomy.
NOW they generate a reference star using laser-stimulated sodium
atoms,
which I guess are floating around up there somewhere....
Funny they would pick sodium....

Now you're over my head. I don't know why they'd pick sodium, except
maybe that it emits a highly monochromatic light, or at least that it
has a very sharp and strong emission line that's easy to filter from
the others.

Because it's there. Some sodium from sea salt spray is wafted up into
the upper atmosphere, and can be provoked into glowing by a laser beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guide_star

Well, strictly speaking, sea-salt is IONIC sodium with different lines
than
atomic sodium.
There are also calcium, potassium, magnesium salts.
But no matter, whatever works....
Overall perty fascinating, tho.

You'd figger that scientists smart enough to figger all this out (I
imagine
this adaptive optics stuff is no easy slam dunk) would be smart enough to
measure the temperature of the earth, eh?? LOL

The hard part is measuring it to tenths of a degree before the invention
of thermometers and temperature standards, so we can distinguish noise
from warming (or cooling) trend.

And, apparently, having the sense not to place sed thermometers over square
miles of black asphalt... LOL

....or heat exchangers.