So, a couple of years ago, I did a major home remodel. Electrician
was OK, but he loved to "screw with things," that did not seem to need
"screwing with."

And, he got a bit testy when I said I would install various fixtures
myself, after he did the wiring, etc.

But, now it is two years later. I have an outdoor light fixture...I
use it maybe...once every two years. HA HA.

Went to use it today. It does not work. Replaced the bulb with known
good bulbs. No go.

Is there a way to test the light fixture itself without taking it
"out." It is sort of a pain to get to. It is a ceramic "pull chain"
fixture, located in a SMALL enclosed storage area under a set of
outdoor concrete stairs. It is out of the weather, but it does get
damp in there in winter).

I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?

On Oct 26, 7:59*pm, tim birr wrote:
So, a couple of years ago, I did a major home remodel. *Electrician
was OK, but he loved to "screw with things," that did not seem to need
"screwing with."

And, he got a bit testy when I said I would install various fixtures
myself, after he did the wiring, etc.

But, now it is two years later. *I have an outdoor light fixture...I
use it maybe...once every two years. HA HA.

Went to use it today. It does not work. Replaced the bulb with known
good bulbs. No go.

Is there a way to test the light fixture itself without taking it
"out."

If you put a bulb in it that you know is good and it still
doesn't light, you've gone as far as you can go at the
fixture without taking the fixture off. Other possibilities
are an open breaker or GFCI on that circuit. If that isn't
the case, then next step is to remove the fixture and
see if you have power there.






It is sort of a pain to get to. It is a ceramic "pull chain"
fixture, located in a SMALL enclosed storage area under a set of
outdoor concrete stairs. It is out of the weather, but it does get
damp in there in winter).

Possibly corroding the switch. If it's bad, I'd replace it with
a fixture suitable for an outside location.


I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?

tim birr wrote:
So, a couple of years ago, I did a major home remodel. Electrician
was OK, but he loved to "screw with things," that did not seem to need
"screwing with."

And, he got a bit testy when I said I would install various fixtures
myself, after he did the wiring, etc.

But, now it is two years later. I have an outdoor light fixture...I
use it maybe...once every two years. HA HA.

Went to use it today. It does not work. Replaced the bulb with known
good bulbs. No go.

Is there a way to test the light fixture itself without taking it
"out." It is sort of a pain to get to. It is a ceramic "pull chain"
fixture, located in a SMALL enclosed storage area under a set of
outdoor concrete stairs. It is out of the weather, but it does get
damp in there in winter).

I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?

If it worked after the electrician left and a new bulb won't glow, it's the
fixture.

On Oct 26, 6:59*pm, tim birr wrote:
So, a couple of years ago, I did a major home remodel. *Electrician
was OK, but he loved to "screw with things," that did not seem to need
"screwing with."

And, he got a bit testy when I said I would install various fixtures
myself, after he did the wiring, etc.

But, now it is two years later. *I have an outdoor light fixture...I
use it maybe...once every two years. HA HA.

Went to use it today. It does not work. Replaced the bulb with known
good bulbs. No go.

Is there a way to test the light fixture itself without taking it
"out." It is sort of a pain to get to. It is a ceramic "pull chain"
fixture, located in a SMALL enclosed storage area under a set of
outdoor concrete stairs. It is out of the weather, but it does get
damp in there in winter).

I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?

Find a neighbor who is handy!!!!

Might be the best advice, yet. Sounds like the OP doesn't
know enough about electricty to troubleshoot, and find out
what's doing. It is dificult to explain over the Usenet.
Perhaps some web sites on electrical troubleshooting may
help the OP? I'm being gentle and respectful (not
insulting). Each of us who works safely on electric learned
from someone else. In my case, from my Dad. The blackout of
2003 was not his fault, honest! Nor the one in 2006.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"hr(bob) "
wrote in message
...

Find a neighbor who is handy!!!!

On 10/26/2011 8:33 PM, wrote:
On Oct 26, 7:59 pm, tim wrote:
So, a couple of years ago, I did a major home remodel. Electrician
was OK, but he loved to "screw with things," that did not seem to need
"screwing with."

And, he got a bit testy when I said I would install various fixtures
myself, after he did the wiring, etc.

But, now it is two years later. I have an outdoor light fixture...I
use it maybe...once every two years. HA HA.

Went to use it today. It does not work. Replaced the bulb with known
good bulbs. No go.

Is there a way to test the light fixture itself without taking it
"out."

If you put a bulb in it that you know is good and it still
doesn't light, you've gone as far as you can go at the
fixture without taking the fixture off. Other possibilities
are an open breaker or GFCI on that circuit. If that isn't
the case, then next step is to remove the fixture and
see if you have power there.






It is sort of a pain to get to. It is a ceramic "pull chain"
fixture, located in a SMALL enclosed storage area under a set of
outdoor concrete stairs. It is out of the weather, but it does get
damp in there in winter).

Possibly corroding the switch. If it's bad, I'd replace it with
a fixture suitable for an outside location.


I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?


Check all the GFCIs, including ones you never use. I don't think it
meets current code, but for several years, 'outside' fixtures like that
were often downstream of bathroom GFCIs. I once changed outside outlet
here thinking it was bad, before I realized GFCI in bathroom in addition
was tripped. (No loss except to pride, outlet needed changing anyway,
had the usual missing chunk near where ground prong fit in front.) Does
storage room have its own breaker, or is it hung off the nearest inside
room? If the latter, may be a GFCI in there, like in an outlet behind
some furniture or something.

I'm no electrician, but speaking from experience, I'd lay money on the
pull-chain part being corroded. If you decide to take it apart, go buy a
new one first. They are so cheap, probably not worth trying to fix. I'd
also look at buying a weather rated fixture. I'd suggest a plain fixture
and adding a switch, but pretty sure that is beyond your comfort level.

--
aem sends...

OP Again:

Appreciate all your suggestions and I am not insulted by any, I am
really pretty clueless on electrical issues.

I was hoping I could do some magic mumbo jumbo without taking the
fixture out, but I guess that is the next step.

The house is 1970 vintage. There is a concrete staircase built as part
of the house when it was originally constructed and -- like inside
many homes -- there is an enclosed storage area under the stairs
(access is through a small door).

Romex (is that right?) comes out of the concrete inside the storage
room and runs "behind" the fixture. I imagine there is some sort of
"box" there.

No GFCI in the house at all. Wait, I guess the electrician put a
couple in around the kitchen sink when he was here, but that's all.
I'll check them, but since those circuits are in use all the time....

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Everyone has a totally clueless subject. Mine is drywall.
I'm worse than useless with drywall, spackling, mud, and so
on.

Best advice I'd heard was to contact your neighbors, see if
anyone is handy with electric. I havn't read any insults or
offense, in this thread. Which happens occasionally. If it
would help, I'll flame you. Maybe in a couple days.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"tim birr" wrote in message
...
OP Again:

Appreciate all your suggestions and I am not insulted by
any, I am
really pretty clueless on electrical issues.

I was hoping I could do some magic mumbo jumbo without
taking the
fixture out, but I guess that is the next step.

The house is 1970 vintage. There is a concrete staircase
built as part
of the house when it was originally constructed and -- like
inside
many homes -- there is an enclosed storage area under the
stairs
(access is through a small door).

Romex (is that right?) comes out of the concrete inside the
storage
room and runs "behind" the fixture. I imagine there is some
sort of
"box" there.

No GFCI in the house at all. Wait, I guess the electrician
put a
couple in around the kitchen sink when he was here, but
that's all.
I'll check them, but since those circuits are in use all the
time....

I'll let you know how it turns out.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Everyone has a totally clueless subject. Mine is drywall.
I'm worse than useless with drywall, spackling, mud, and so
on.


Mine is surgery. It can be hard to tell the difference between an appendix
and a gall bladder if the lighting is not good. It is getting so, I can't
even find volunteers to let me practice on them any more.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:04:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Everyone has a totally clueless subject. Mine is drywall.
I'm worse than useless with drywall, spackling, mud, and so
on.


Mine is surgery. It can be hard to tell the difference between an appendix
and a gall bladder if the lighting is not good. It is getting so, I can't
even find volunteers to let me practice on them any more.

Take 'em both. It'll save the patient grief later.

Try Candlepower forums. They would likely have a flashlight
for your needs.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php



--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Mine is surgery. It can be hard to tell the difference
between an appendix
and a gall bladder if the lighting is not good. It is
getting so, I can't
even find volunteers to let me practice on them any more.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
stuff snipped

I'm thinking the electrican, might have somehow disconnected it to the
panel as he worked to connect the new cooktops, ovens, overhead
fixtures in the house?

I do have a $50 KLEIN digital "whatever those sort of meters are
called" to measure current, but I am not very good at using it. So,
any thoughts?

If it worked after the electrician left and a new bulb won't glow, it's
the fixture.

Or:

a) an in-line GFCI connected somewhere between the circuit panel and the
fixture or

b) a switch that the OP may not even know of between the fixture and the
panel got thrown accidentally or

c) there's a popped circuit breaker in the circuit panel or

d) there's a disconnected wire between the fixture and the circuit panel.

e) a breaker wire was not tightened down well enough and jumped

There are probably more possibilities but without a helper with electrical
experience, a fox & hound set and perhaps some other tools, it's probably
beyond the OP's admitted skill level. Even experienced electricians can
have trouble with "why doesn't this outlet or fixture work" once they've
eliminated the basics.

Even the hound sometimes can't follow where the fox (wire) goes, especially
in older and oddly wired homes. My side porch light, at the diametrically
opposite end of the house from the panel, is such a beast. The signal goes
up, up and away, but never comes down again. No matter, I had to run a
groundwire and neutral to is for X-10 anyway. So I ran a new wire from the
basement up and sealed off the old one in adhesive lined shrink wrap. Have
the potential to run an outside outlet from that line but I already have one
nearby.

I hate having porch lights or anything pass through an upstream GFCI. At
$10 each or less, I just put them where I need them and either make that the
end of the run or add outlets past it, and not through it. Bad enough
trying to find blown breakers. I understand that's not codeworthy anymore.
Why was it ever?

My best guess is GFCI that it might be wired to has tripped. My second best
guess is the switch in the fixture's bad. Third best guess is that the wire
came off the screw that's supposed to hold it down. I've seen pros nick the
wire enough with strippers that it eventually breaks, just from thermal
stress, especially if they spread the nick even wider when curving the
stripped end.

--
Bobby G.

"aemeijers" wrote in message

I once changed outside outlet
here thinking it was bad, before I realized GFCI in bathroom in addition
was tripped. (No loss except to pride, outlet needed changing anyway,
had the usual missing chunk near where ground prong fit in front.)

Been there, done that. Was looking at a nightlight that my wife said was
flickering and it seemed to only work when I squeezed it! Was just about to
take it into surgery when I realized it had a photocell controller and when
I was squeezing it, I was blocking the cell and turning the light on. Aha!
Pride loss=10 points.

--
Bobby G.

I'm no electrician, but speaking from experience, I'd lay money on the
pull-chain part being corroded. If you decide to take it apart, go buy a
new one first. They are so cheap, probably not worth trying to fix. I'd
also look at buying a weather rated fixture. I'd suggest a plain fixture
and adding a switch, but pretty sure that is beyond your comfort level.

That (corrosion) would be my first guess. Use a pencil eraser to
"clean" the center contact of the light socket. Operate the switch
MANY times. With luck you can cut through the corrosion.

The next step is to pick up "voltage detector." These gadgets "beep"
and and sometimes light when the tip is brought near a hot wire. These
are completely insulated so you can poke them around without risk of
shock or shorting something else.

With the voltage detector at hand, take the cover plate off the switch
and see what's Hot and what's not hot with the switch in it's two
positions. That will give you a clue whether there is corrosion inside
the switch or the wire connection at the switch is corroded.

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
net...


I'm no electrician, but speaking from experience, I'd lay money on the
pull-chain part being corroded. If you decide to take it apart, go buy a
new one first. They are so cheap, probably not worth trying to fix. I'd
also look at buying a weather rated fixture. I'd suggest a plain fixture
and adding a switch, but pretty sure that is beyond your comfort level.

That (corrosion) would be my first guess. Use a pencil eraser to
"clean" the center contact of the light socket. Operate the switch
MANY times. With luck you can cut through the corrosion.

The next step is to pick up "voltage detector." These gadgets "beep"
and and sometimes light when the tip is brought near a hot wire. These
are completely insulated so you can poke them around without risk of
shock or shorting something else.

With the voltage detector at hand, take the cover plate off the switch
and see what's Hot and what's not hot with the switch in it's two
positions. That will give you a clue whether there is corrosion inside
the switch or the wire connection at the switch is corroded.

+ 1! The little plastic testers you mention are great for helping to figure
out what's live and what's not.

Working the chain multiple times might work to clear corrosion, but
sometimes even that doesn't help. My 60 year old Variac has developed hot
spots where the voltage drops to nothing after a few seconds. Twistin the
dial back and forth clearly reveals differences in the wipe to coil
"friction" but only the top-most and lower most ranges work and don't drop
out within seconds. Too bad it's the 50V range that's most useful to me but
when I work in that range, the Variac passes current for a few seconds and
then the attached bulb just flickers out. Around here, at least two things
break every day. So far, my garbage can caught fire at 3AM, the Variac that
controls the dog grate heater and the intercom failed. And the day's far
from over.

The old side door intercom (a three channel wired Radio Shack special from
1981!) stopped working after a period of intermittent behavior. The wire
provided with the system (a very thin gauge stranded wire that's about the
same as that found in one piece earphones) failed. It's got a miniplug on
each end and I removed it all (it was stapled behind the baseboard) for a
visual inspection since the fox and hound set didn't locate any obvious
breaks. Two inspections under a magnifier found nothing. Now I am going to
cut off the ends, one by one, and either attach new ones or just hardwire
them in. I wish there was some trick, absent a TDR, to figure out where
the break is.

What bothers me the most is that I know I have at least two sets of
replacement wires, and I remember putting them in a box labeled "Intercom
Gear" but for the life of me, I can't remember where it is since I put it
away 20 years ago when I installed it, using only one channel and just one
of the three 100' "preplugged" cables that came with it.

--
Bobby G.

On 10/28/2011 1:47 PM, John Gilmer wrote:


I'm no electrician, but speaking from experience, I'd lay money on the
pull-chain part being corroded. If you decide to take it apart, go buy a
new one first. They are so cheap, probably not worth trying to fix. I'd
also look at buying a weather rated fixture. I'd suggest a plain fixture
and adding a switch, but pretty sure that is beyond your comfort level.

That (corrosion) would be my first guess. Use a pencil eraser to "clean"
the center contact of the light socket. Operate the switch MANY times.
With luck you can cut through the corrosion.

The next step is to pick up "voltage detector." These gadgets "beep" and
and sometimes light when the tip is brought near a hot wire. These are
completely insulated so you can poke them around without risk of shock
or shorting something else.

With the voltage detector at hand, take the cover plate off the switch
and see what's Hot and what's not hot with the switch in it's two
positions. That will give you a clue whether there is corrosion inside
the switch or the wire connection at the switch is corroded.





It's a pull chain fixture. Unless OP hasn't found it, there is no switch
to pull the cover plate off of.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 10/28/2011 1:47 PM, John Gilmer wrote:


I'm no electrician, but speaking from experience, I'd lay money on the
pull-chain part being corroded. If you decide to take it apart, go buy
a
new one first. They are so cheap, probably not worth trying to fix. I'd
also look at buying a weather rated fixture. I'd suggest a plain
fixture
and adding a switch, but pretty sure that is beyond your comfort level.

That (corrosion) would be my first guess. Use a pencil eraser to "clean"
the center contact of the light socket. Operate the switch MANY times.
With luck you can cut through the corrosion.

The next step is to pick up "voltage detector." These gadgets "beep" and
and sometimes light when the tip is brought near a hot wire. These are
completely insulated so you can poke them around without risk of shock
or shorting something else.

With the voltage detector at hand, take the cover plate off the switch
and see what's Hot and what's not hot with the switch in it's two
positions. That will give you a clue whether there is corrosion inside
the switch or the wire connection at the switch is corroded.





It's a pull chain fixture. Unless OP hasn't found it, there is no switch
to pull the cover plate off of.

I think he meant say "to pull the fixture off the junction box" and check
what you can see on the pullchain switch mechanism wiring and mechansim.
That tends to vary from fixture to fixture. On mine you unscrew a porcelain
retaining ring and the whole switch body pulls out. I'd also look behind it
to see if the wire's still under the screws and not broken off at the strip
juncture. That's a common failure point and a spot where I've been failed by
the AHJ more than once. It's easy to badly nick the wire and not see it,
especially if you're blind as a bat. I use a very bright LED headlamp for
wiring that sort of stuff now because of aging eyeballs and a known bad hand
when it comes to nicking romex while stripping it. .

--
Bobby G.