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Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/1/11 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Could you just put a fixed orifice in the supply line? Maybe something with a 1/8" or 1/16" hole? |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Try partially closing the shut off valve under the tank.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 7:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the local assisted care facilities. Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets don't. How hard would it be? |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Try biodegradable tp. It can be found in any camping supply store. It
breaks down really quick and would be hard to clog a toilet. Or... Limit the amount of tp available |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] I like Thomas' answer. Get that thin one ply stuff from walmart. It takes miles of that to make a wad. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Get one of those toilets that has a pressure bladder inside the tank. My friend has one and when it's flushed, it sounds like a rocket launch and it would flush a full grown cat if you tried. (No, it was never done by me or anyone else at his house.) Come to think of it a cat did turn up missing but it was one Halloween and the cat was black. Folks will steal black cats that time of year. :-) TDD |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Doug Miller wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Hmmm, Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless mentally challenged or very old person. If you restrict the water it may end up causing more clogging. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
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Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 1, 7:20 am, (Doug Miller) wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the local assisted care facilities. Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets don't. How hard would it be? Probably not as easy as you think...Depending on where the clog is, an overflow drain exiting behind it could work. But what about the overflow drain itself clogging with toilet paper or floating turds? I'd give your idea a score of about .05 out of 10. G Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
In article
, jamesgangnc wrote: I've always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets don't. How hard would it be? When I was a kid, back in the 60's, we had a toilet with a tank water level lower than the bowl water level. It couldn't overflow. When clogged, water would rise ominously in the bowl to about 1/2" shy of the top, and magically stop. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Sorry for your situation, and respect for your dedication. Is this too off the wall: Ration toilet paper in some way? By putting the TP dispenser OUTSIDE the bathroom, and gently, politely monitoring the quantity used? HB |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. No toilet paper, no problem. It does require some wiring. You might also look at getting a Toto Drake toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant toilet. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 3:39*pm, mike wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote: [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. *No toilet paper, no problem. *It does require some wiring. *You might also look at getting a Toto Drake toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant toilet. You're talking about an 87-year-old with Alzheimer's here. They're lucky he's still using toilet paper, and you expect this person to learn how to use a bidet? What will happen is this: He won't be able to find the toilet paper so he will... 1. Use whatever's handy, such as a towel or his own shirt. Lovely. 2. Pull up his drawers without wiping. Equally lovely. The solution here is not a cockamaime toilet timer that doesn't exist. Doug needs a toilet that can swallow the wad of paper. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 12:59*pm, wrote:
On Jun 1, 3:39*pm, mike wrote: On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote: [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. *No toilet paper, no problem. *It does require some wiring. *You might also look at getting a Toto Drake toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant toilet. You're talking about an 87-year-old with Alzheimer's here. They're lucky he's still using toilet paper, and you expect this person to learn how to use a bidet? What will happen is this: He won't be able to find the toilet paper so he will... 1. Use whatever's handy, such as a towel or his own shirt. Lovely. 2. Pull up his drawers without wiping. Equally lovely. The solution here is not a cockamaime toilet timer that doesn't exist. Doug needs a toilet that can swallow the wad of paper. If they're so far gone that they can't read a sign that says to push a button for cleaning, then they probably need someone to wipe for them, but that evidently isn't the case here. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 1, 7:20 am, (Doug Miller) wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the local assisted care facilities. Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets don't. How hard would it be? Fill your sink with enough paper to block the overflow. Or stuff some crap down into the sink trap. You'll figger out why a toilet overflow won't work. Sink overflows only prevent overflow if the drain is closed, but the PIPE is still open. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
"notbob" wrote in message
... On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. Agree. One must always look for the unexpected consequence with dementia patients. We think they will react to things logically, but their logical facilities are eroding daily and so they do very odd things. My dad had the same problems and I am on the approach curve with moderate to severe short term memory loss that's advancing. I read posts like this knowing that I'd better think about implementing some of them while I still can. I see two approaches to this problem. I would try to put a sensor on the toilet paper dispenser that was able to send a pulse to my HomeVision automation controller for each reach of the roller using a tiny magnet and a tiny Hall effect sensor. When the count reached some pre-determined number I would have the HV controller announce "That's enough toilet paper, Mom - time to flush." Sometimes people with Alzheimer's just need a reminder. They get locked into repetitive behaviors with no internal "counter" to break the loop. I might even consider rigging an actuator from a car power lock or some other device to just go ahead and flush the toilet after 4 accesses to the toilet paper. It's probably quite "doable" and cheap these days to fit the patient with a GPS so that you'd know where they were. That way you could set the system only to warn mom and not scare a visitor with a bad case of the Aztec two-step into a heart attack when they hear the toilet paper talking . . . However, for the OP I suggest they get a better toilet that's more resistant to clogs. Many of the previous suggestions, as you note, will cause more serious problems. If your mom is like my dad was, she's also easily frustrated and upset and limiting the TP supply or the water supply is likely to cause agitation and perhaps even more bad behavior than it was meant to prevent. Many of the new low-flow toilets clog at the drop of a hat because the waste channels are narrower than the older designs. More efficient almost always translates into "less powerful" these days. A good plumber will be able to point the OP to a model that's more clog resistant than current. Maybe others can tell us whether the black market for high powered non-green toilets still exists. The OP should be thankful that his parent is still able to do the job themselves. I commend both you and the OP for caring for your parent at home. Sometimes it's a crushing job when they don't even remember who you are or what you're doing for them. Alzheimer's is one of the cruelest jokes Nature plays on us, robbing us of our intellect, our dignity and our sense of well-being. Children caring for a parent with dementia are prone to serious bouts of depression. They often imagine themselves with the disease as they get older. Worse, still, they typically never get a break from caregiving until the patient passes, evaporating before their very eyes. Best day of my life? When my Dad took me to the World's Fair in NYC. Worst day? When he didn't even know who I was anymore or anything about the Fair. Death is frightening enough. Death by dementia is disastrous. )-; -- Bobby G. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill valve may help. Perhaps it is worth investigating some of the newer toilets. They are low flow 1.2 gallon, but have large openings to prevent clogs. American Standard was advertising heavily last year showing all sorts of stuff being flushed. Your relative is fortunate to have you too! |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
In article ,
notbob wrote: On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb 2 suggestions on keeping the area in question cleaner, and you don't have to by 84 to adopt them: 1: Use lotion on the TP. 2: Stir a heaping tablespoon of soluble fiber (psyllium husk) into a very large glass of water and consume immediately. Do this once or twice daily. Typically reduces TP usage by about 95%. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
In article ,
notbob wrote: On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer, the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet paper. But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. There's a tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have no practical experience. In the real world it usually boils down to increasing amounts of supervision. m |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
In article ,
Doug Miller wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] So, the fundamental requirement is don't flush the toilet if the bowl is too full already. The simplest method takes its ispiration from the automotive world. You have to break the mechanical linkage between the flush handle and the flapper. Install a motor to raise and lower the flapper. Replace the flush handle with a softwitch, which while looking exactly like a normal handle will actually just send an electronic signal, a Flush Request, to the computer you build, the Toilet Control Module (TCM). The TCM then drives the motor to operate the flapper. With this in place, add a water level sensor to the bowl and connect it to the TCM. Then rewrite the TCM firmware to keep the flapper closed if the bowl water level is dangerously high. It's so simple that I wouldn't be suprized if there are already several choices on the market today. Of course, they're probably all only available in Japan, so they'll be right-hand drive and have to be adapted for American use. m |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
"Fake ID" wrote in message news:4de7450c$0$2139 In
artic notbob wrote: On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer, the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet paper. But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. There's a tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have no practical experience. In the real world it usually boils down to increasing amounts of supervision. Well, Fake, it sounds like you're unaware of a number of serious initiatives designed to make the lives of Alzheimer's patients and caregivers (usually spouses or children of the victim) easier, not harder. "Gadgets" as you term them, have already proved quite valuable in allowing Alzheimer patients and caregivers to live better lives. As you're probably aware, there are significant differences between early and late stages of dementia. In the early stages of the disease, forgetfulness is the enemy. Many Alzheimers patient get institutionalized after an a cooking accident or some other serious event in the home linked to forgetfulness. There are devices to automatically shut off stoves before they can create a fire, anti-scald devices to prevent them from burning themselves with overly-hot water. There are GPS bracelets that can locate a strayed dementia patient who has strayed. They often leave their houses in very cold weather and die of expo sure before they are located. Before he died, I was working with HomeVision to create checklists for my father - things he needed to do each day, things he needed to do before leaving the house, etc. I'll agree that as dementia worsens, more care is needed, but in the early stages "gadgets" can be awfully helpful. http://www.alzheimersweekly.com/cont...tion-bell-labs Casensa will allow people with early dementia to stay at home longer and will support caregivers by introducing assistive technology into the house. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=4561994 Assistive technology in smart homes for elderly people with Alzheimer's disease is needed to support 'aging in place'. In this paper, we propose a probabilistic learning approach to characterise behavioural patterns for multi-inhabitants in smart homes. Decision support is then provided to monitor and assist patients to complete activities of daily living (ADL). If a gadget can prevent a caregiver from having to worry every second of every day, I say "OK!" -- Bobby G. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
"Robert Green" wrote in news:is6o95$7fg$2
@dont-email.me: Sometimes people with Alzheimer's just need a reminder. While I admire your response to such a challenge I'd dread dealing with, you gotta admit that line is kind of funny. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Tony Hwang wrote in
: Doug Miller wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Hmmm, Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless mentally challenged or very old person. If you restrict the water it may end up causing more clogging. I had no clue just how severe Alzheimer's can get. Do you wear a name tag mounted upside down so you can conveniently look down...when you even remember it's there? |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/1/2011 12:39 PM, mike wrote:
You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. No toilet paper, no problem. It does require some wiring. You might also look at getting a Toto Drake toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant toilet. We have three Toto Drake toilets. All clog on a regular basis when too much paper is used. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper? Perhaps a bedside-type toilet - that doesn't USE water - is a solution? (Or an outside privy.) |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/1/2011 4:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? Never seen such a thing. There are solenoid valve timers, but they have programmable cycle times, you can't trigger the timer to start with an external event (a flush) which is what you need. Building a time-delay valve would not be all that difficult, though not all that cheap. I would probably use a waterproof lever switch in the tank to trigger a 555 timer that operated a relay that controlled a 24VAC sprinkler valve that the supply line is connected to. I love those sprinkler valves--I even have one controlling the water fill system to my pool to top it off. The valve would be connected to the normally closed relay contacts (always energized, except when the toilet is flushed). When the switch close is detected the 555 would energize the relay coil, the normally closed relay contacts would open, and the valve would be open for 15 minutes. You don't need much accuracy here so a 555 would be fine. Switch: http://www.drillspot.com/products/1331396/control_products_e1092-555_limit_switch 24VAC/1A adapter for sprinkler valve: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACTX-2415/24VAC-1.5A-WALL-TRANSFORMER/1.html? 24VAC Sprinkler valve: Home Depot 12VDC SPDT relay with 2A contacts, and coil that draws less than 200mA (555 can source or sink 200mA) 555, resistors, capacitors, 12VDC supply for 555 and relay: I'd use this transformer (3:1 windings): http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PCTX-2040/20V/40VCT-1200/600MA-PC-MT-TRANSFORMER/1.html? off the 24VAC transformer which would give you 11.3VDC after being rectified (8*1.414) which is enough for a 12V relay. You want to keep 120VAC away from the toilet, so everything could be powered from a 24VAC transformer. I thought that a switch that detects flow through a line would be better to trigger the timer than a waterproof lever switch, but these are very costly http://www.systemsensor.com/products/sprink/?UniqueID=11 and may require too great a flow to even trigger on a toilet supply line (4GPM). That said, I'd probably try a combination of things: 1) Commercial toilet paper dispenser that limits the amount of paper 2) Bidet seat 3) Turn the supply valve handle way down so it takes 15 minutes to fill the toilet 4) Camping toilet paper or other single ply paper |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
HeyBub wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper? Plunge, then flush again. -- Tony Sivori Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill valve may help. You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily reversible, and effective. A no-brainer. -- Tony Sivori Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] Replace the toilet paper with a bell. Have somebody else do the wiping. -- Dbdblocker Planet Earth |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 9:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] One member of our household struggles with a similar clogging problem. Happy to say that it has nothing to do with Alzheimer's, age, or the amount of TP used. It's simply a volume issue. An anti-clogging toilet is a good option, requires no additional training on the part of the user. Won't work 100% but definitely lessens the chances of a problem. The bulletproof fix (even for most regular toilets) is FEFO - "flush early, flush often". This defeats the intent of modern low-flow toilets but I can tell you it's far preferable to the alternative mess. For the OP, this wouldn't work well (Alzheimer's). Having said that, bolt-on (retrofit) automatic flushers are available. We had a bunch installed at work recently. The premise is simple...detect when a person is present and flush at the appropriate time (when the person leaves). I wonder if you could get one that flushed intermittently when the person is actually sitting down...FEFO. Might be worth looking into, if a little startling for the user! |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 2, 1:08*am, (Fake ID) wrote:
In article , notbob wrote: On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. * Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. * I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. *Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer, the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet paper. But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. *There's a tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have no practical experience. *In the real world it usually boils down to increasing amounts of supervision. That's exactly where I'm coming from. With all due respect to those caring people who choose to keep impaired loved ones at home, there may come a time... Meanwhile, if finances and/or social services permit, it would be great to have a helper, at least part time. That person will get the hang of the patient's elimination schedule and be there to help him/ her do the deed and clean up him/herself appropriately, w/o clogging toilet. HB |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
"Tony Sivori" wrote in message
... Ed Pawlowski wrote: No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill valve may help. You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily reversible, and effective. A no-brainer. How does that solution keep too much toilet paper from entering the bowl? There seems to be an assumption that an Alzheimer's patient would be like the rest of us - too impatient to wait for the refill. I don't believe that's the case. From my experience, they would just repeat flushing over and over again until it flushed. The proof of that contention? They are already in a near-endless loop with the toilet paper. Wiping and rewiping, clogging the bowl with toilet paper. Repetitive actions are one of the hallmarks of dementia. The solution would more likely involve a way to *prevent* that much paper from getting into the bowl in the first place. Attaching a bell to the paper dispenser would enable a care giver to intervene at the right point in the process. Having Alzheimer's doesn't mean you lose your dignity. It just means you have trouble exercising it. The last thing my dad wanted was help going to the bathroom. It would make him very angry and upset if you even offered. We just got a lot of floor mats to make accident cleanup easier. The OP probably needs to just be happy his relative can still use the toilet without assistance and find a toilet that can deal with copious amounts of toilet paper without an overflow. I also imagine that anyone else using that toilet will probably find that *they* can't live waiting for minutes for the bowl to refill while ironically, a person with dementia would just keep wiggling the handle until it finally flushed. They wouldn't care how much time had passed because their sense of time has become so distorted from the disease. -- Bobby G. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up. Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush? [* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen] How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper? I don't expect it to. Too much paper, in and of itself, isn't a problem, as long as the toilet is flushed only ONCE. If it takes 20 minutes before there's enough water in the tank for a second flush, that's plenty of time for one of us to get there with a plunger to clear the clog. Perhaps a bedside-type toilet - that doesn't USE water - is a solution? Count how many problems you can see with that idea after spending more time thinking about it than it took to type the sentence. (Or an outside privy.) What part of "87 year old with Alzheimer's" did you find confusing? |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Robert Green wrote:
"Tony Sivori" wrote in message ... Ed Pawlowski wrote: No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill valve may help. You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily reversible, and effective. A no-brainer. How does that solution keep too much toilet paper from entering the bowl? That wasn't the question the OP asked. The OP asked for a timer or device to make it take 20 or so minutes to fill the tank. There seems to be an assumption that an Alzheimer's patient would be like the rest of us - too impatient to wait for the refill. I don't believe that's the case. From my experience, they would just repeat flushing over and over again until it flushed. The proof of that contention? They are already in a near-endless loop with the toilet paper. Wiping and rewiping, clogging the bowl with toilet paper. Repetitive actions are one of the hallmarks of dementia. You raise valid questions. My guess is that the OP hopes to have an able-minded person on standby with a plunger. The solution would more likely involve a way to *prevent* that much paper from getting into the bowl in the first place. I have doubts about that. The only way to truly limit the amount of paper used would be to limit the amount of paper available. Then, given the dementia, you could end up with the victim using bare hands and spreading fecal matter everywhere. Attaching a bell to the paper dispenser would enable a care giver to intervene at the right point in the process. Having Alzheimer's doesn't mean you lose your dignity. It just means you have trouble exercising it. The last thing my dad wanted was help going to the bathroom. It would make him very angry and upset if you even offered. Now I'm puzzled. You say they get very angry if assistance is offered. Then you suggest that the caregiver enter and offer assistance. We just got a lot of floor mats to make accident cleanup easier. My sincere condolences. Frequent cleanup of toilet overflow is bad enough, but repeated soakings of the subfloor and joists will result in significant damage. The OP probably needs to just be happy his relative can still use the toilet without assistance and find a toilet that can deal with copious amounts of toilet paper without an overflow. A good suggestion. This is a lot more expensive than reducing the cut off valve to a trickle, but the OP might want to consider this clog resistant toilet: http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...novations/?f=2 I also imagine that anyone else using that toilet will probably find that *they* can't live waiting for minutes for the bowl to refill while ironically, a person with dementia would just keep wiggling the handle until it finally flushed. They wouldn't care how much time had passed because their sense of time has become so distorted from the disease. -- Tony Sivori Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On 6/3/2011 7:57 AM, Tony Sivori wrote:
A good suggestion. This is a lot more expensive than reducing the cut off valve to a trickle, but the OP might want to consider this clog resistant toilet: http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...novations/?f=2 I wonder if this works better than the disappointing Toto Drake? It has a wider trapway and larger flush valve, and is less expensive ($326 from Amazon). In any case, A combination of a better toilet, different toilet paper (RV type), toilet paper dispenser that makes it harder to use so much paper, and a delay between flushing to allow the paper a chance to break down, might work together to solve the problem. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/thetford-aqua-soft-2-ply-rv-toilet-paper/9888 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012C0RQW http://www.ameraproducts.com/store/p/456-Model-5071-Surface-Mounted-Single-Roll-Cast-Alum-.aspx Now ideally what would be cool is to link an automatic paper delivery system to each flush of the toilet so you only get a limited amount of paper dispensed per flush. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
Doug Miller wrote:
wrote: http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...age/innovation s/?f=2 Noted; thank you. I hope the valve works for you without the expense of trying a new toilet. My 85 year old Mother is in the early stages of Alzheimers. She seems very normal, then she will ask a conversation stopper kind of question, like do I own or rent my house. -- Tony Sivori Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters. |
Timer valve to delay toilet refill?
On Jun 1, 3:35*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote: On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas Limit the amount of tp available I was thinking that. * Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. * I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. *Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet. nb Time for wetwipes, to be discarded in the closed trash can nearby? |
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