One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

On 6/1/11 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


Could you just put a fixed orifice in the supply line? Maybe
something with a 1/8" or 1/16" hole?

Try partially closing the shut off valve under the tank.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Doug Miller" wrote in
message ...
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use
too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times,
with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired
of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would
prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes
after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while
education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't
gonna happen]

On Jun 1, 7:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up..

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty
sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the
local assisted care facilities.

Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've
always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets
don't. How hard would it be?

Try biodegradable tp. It can be found in any camping supply store. It
breaks down really quick and would be hard to clog a toilet.

Or...

Limit the amount of tp available

On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


I like Thomas' answer. Get that thin one ply stuff from walmart. It
takes miles of that to make a wad.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


Get one of those toilets that has a pressure bladder inside the tank. My
friend has one and when it's flushed, it sounds like a rocket launch and
it would flush a full grown cat if you tried. (No, it was never done by
me or anyone else at his house.) Come to think of it a cat did turn up
missing but it was one Halloween and the cat was black. Folks will steal
black cats that time of year. :-)

TDD

Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

Hmmm,
Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless mentally
challenged or very old person. If you restrict the water
it may end up causing more clogging.

In article , wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

Hmmm,
Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless mentally
challenged or very old person.

Hmmmm,
Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you just stupid? Read the
paragraph *immediately above* your reply: "an 87 year old with Alzheimer's".

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 1, 7:20 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty
sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the
local assisted care facilities.

Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've
always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets
don't. How hard would it be?

Probably not as easy as you think...Depending on where the clog is, an
overflow drain exiting behind it could work.

But what about the overflow drain itself clogging with toilet paper or
floating turds?

I'd give your idea a score of about .05 out of 10. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In article
,
jamesgangnc wrote:

I've
always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets
don't. How hard would it be?

When I was a kid, back in the 60's, we had a toilet with a tank water
level lower than the bowl water level. It couldn't overflow. When
clogged, water would rise ominously in the bowl to about 1/2" shy of the
top, and magically stop.

On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up..

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

Sorry for your situation, and respect for your dedication.

Is this too off the wall: Ration toilet paper in some way? By
putting the TP dispenser OUTSIDE the bathroom, and gently, politely
monitoring the quantity used?

HB

On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that.

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up..

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. No toilet paper, no problem. It
does require some wiring. You might also look at getting a Toto Drake
toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant
toilet.

On Jun 1, 3:39*pm, mike wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. *No toilet paper, no problem. *It
does require some wiring. *You might also look at getting a Toto Drake
toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant
toilet.

You're talking about an 87-year-old with Alzheimer's here. They're
lucky he's still using toilet paper, and you expect this person to
learn how to use a bidet?

What will happen is this: He won't be able to find the toilet paper so
he will...

1. Use whatever's handy, such as a towel or his own shirt. Lovely.
2. Pull up his drawers without wiping. Equally lovely.

The solution here is not a cockamaime toilet timer that doesn't exist.
Doug needs a toilet that can swallow the wad of paper.

On Jun 1, 12:59*pm, wrote:
On Jun 1, 3:39*pm, mike wrote:

On Jun 1, 4:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. *No toilet paper, no problem. *It
does require some wiring. *You might also look at getting a Toto Drake
toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant
toilet.

You're talking about an 87-year-old with Alzheimer's here. They're
lucky he's still using toilet paper, and you expect this person to
learn how to use a bidet?

What will happen is this: He won't be able to find the toilet paper so
he will...

1. Use whatever's handy, such as a towel or his own shirt. Lovely.
2. Pull up his drawers without wiping. Equally lovely.

The solution here is not a cockamaime toilet timer that doesn't exist.
Doug needs a toilet that can swallow the wad of paper.

If they're so far gone that they can't read a sign that says to push a
button for cleaning, then they probably need someone to wipe for them,
but that evidently isn't the case here.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 1, 7:20 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty
sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the
local assisted care facilities.

Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've
always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets
don't. How hard would it be?

Fill your sink with enough paper to block the overflow.
Or stuff some crap down into the sink trap.
You'll figger out why a toilet overflow won't work.
Sink overflows only prevent overflow if the drain is closed,
but the PIPE is still open.

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that.

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

Agree. One must always look for the unexpected consequence with dementia
patients. We think they will react to things logically, but their logical
facilities are eroding daily and so they do very odd things.

My dad had the same problems and I am on the approach curve with moderate to
severe short term memory loss that's advancing. I read posts like this
knowing that I'd better think about implementing some of them while I still
can. I see two approaches to this problem.

I would try to put a sensor on the toilet paper dispenser that was able to
send a pulse to my HomeVision automation controller for each reach of the
roller using a tiny magnet and a tiny Hall effect sensor. When the count
reached some pre-determined number I would have the HV controller announce
"That's enough toilet paper, Mom - time to flush."

Sometimes people with Alzheimer's just need a reminder. They get locked
into repetitive behaviors with no internal "counter" to break the loop.

I might even consider rigging an actuator from a car power lock or some
other device to just go ahead and flush the toilet after 4 accesses to the
toilet paper. It's probably quite "doable" and cheap these days to fit the
patient with a GPS so that you'd know where they were. That way you could
set the system only to warn mom and not scare a visitor with a bad case of
the Aztec two-step into a heart attack when they hear the toilet paper
talking . . .

However, for the OP I suggest they get a better toilet that's more resistant
to clogs. Many of the previous suggestions, as you note, will cause more
serious problems. If your mom is like my dad was, she's also easily
frustrated and upset and limiting the TP supply or the water supply is
likely to cause agitation and perhaps even more bad behavior than it was
meant to prevent.

Many of the new low-flow toilets clog at the drop of a hat because the waste
channels are narrower than the older designs. More efficient almost always
translates into "less powerful" these days. A good plumber will be able to
point the OP to a model that's more clog resistant than current. Maybe
others can tell us whether the black market for high powered non-green
toilets still exists.

The OP should be thankful that his parent is still able to do the job
themselves.

I commend both you and the OP for caring for your parent at home. Sometimes
it's a crushing job when they don't even remember who you are or what you're
doing for them. Alzheimer's is one of the cruelest jokes Nature plays on
us, robbing us of our intellect, our dignity and our sense of well-being.

Children caring for a parent with dementia are prone to serious bouts of
depression. They often imagine themselves with the disease as they get
older. Worse, still, they typically never get a break from caregiving until
the patient passes, evaporating before their very eyes. Best day of my life?
When my Dad took me to the World's Fair in NYC. Worst day? When he didn't
even know who I was anymore or anything about the Fair. Death is
frightening enough. Death by dementia is disastrous. )-;

--
Bobby G.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is
obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill valve
may help.

Perhaps it is worth investigating some of the newer toilets. They are low
flow 1.2 gallon, but have large openings to prevent clogs. American
Standard was advertising heavily last year showing all sorts of stuff being
flushed.

Your relative is fortunate to have you too!

In article ,
notbob wrote:

On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that.

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

2 suggestions on keeping the area in question cleaner, and you don't
have to by 84 to adopt them:

1: Use lotion on the TP.
2: Stir a heaping tablespoon of soluble fiber (psyllium husk) into a
very large glass of water and consume immediately. Do this once or twice
daily. Typically reduces TP usage by about 95%.

In article ,
notbob wrote:
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that.

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer,
the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet
paper.

But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. There's a
tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have
no practical experience. In the real world it usually boils down to
increasing amounts of supervision.

m

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]

So, the fundamental requirement is don't flush the toilet if the bowl is
too full already. The simplest method takes its ispiration from the
automotive world. You have to break the mechanical linkage between the
flush handle and the flapper. Install a motor to raise and lower the
flapper. Replace the flush handle with a softwitch, which while looking
exactly like a normal handle will actually just send an electronic
signal, a Flush Request, to the computer you build, the Toilet Control
Module (TCM). The TCM then drives the motor to operate the flapper.
With this in place, add a water level sensor to the bowl and connect it
to the TCM. Then rewrite the TCM firmware to keep the flapper closed if
the bowl water level is dangerously high. It's so simple that I
wouldn't be suprized if there are already several choices on the market
today. Of course, they're probably all only available in Japan, so
they'll be right-hand drive and have to be adapted for American use.

m

"Fake ID" wrote in message news:4de7450c$0$2139 In
artic
notbob wrote:
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that.

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer,
the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet
paper.

But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. There's a
tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have
no practical experience. In the real world it usually boils down to
increasing amounts of supervision.

Well, Fake, it sounds like you're unaware of a number of serious initiatives
designed to make the lives of Alzheimer's patients and caregivers (usually
spouses or children of the victim) easier, not harder. "Gadgets" as you
term them, have already proved quite valuable in allowing Alzheimer patients
and caregivers to live better lives. As you're probably aware, there are
significant differences between early and late stages of dementia.

In the early stages of the disease, forgetfulness is the enemy. Many
Alzheimers patient get institutionalized after an a cooking accident or some
other serious event in the home linked to forgetfulness. There are devices
to automatically shut off stoves before they can create a fire, anti-scald
devices to prevent them from burning themselves with overly-hot water.
There are GPS bracelets that can locate a strayed dementia patient who has
strayed. They often leave their houses in very cold weather and die of expo
sure before they are located. Before he died, I was working with HomeVision
to create checklists for my father - things he needed to do each day, things
he needed to do before leaving the house, etc. I'll agree that as dementia
worsens, more care is needed, but in the early stages "gadgets" can be
awfully helpful.

http://www.alzheimersweekly.com/cont...tion-bell-labs

Casensa will allow people with early dementia to stay at home longer and
will support caregivers by introducing assistive technology into the house.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=4561994

Assistive technology in smart homes for elderly people with Alzheimer's
disease is needed to support 'aging in place'. In this paper, we propose a
probabilistic learning approach to characterise behavioural patterns for
multi-inhabitants in smart homes. Decision support is then provided to
monitor and assist patients to complete activities of daily living (ADL).

If a gadget can prevent a caregiver from having to worry every second of
every day, I say "OK!"

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in news:is6o95$7fg$2
@dont-email.me:

Sometimes people with Alzheimer's just need a reminder.

While I admire your response to such a challenge I'd dread dealing with,
you gotta admit that line is kind of funny.

Tony Hwang wrote in
news


Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much
paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times,
with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired
of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the
toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after
a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is
obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't
gonna happen]

Hmmm,
Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless
mentally challenged or very old person. If you restrict the water
it may end up causing more clogging.



I had no clue just how severe Alzheimer's can get.

Do you wear a name tag mounted upside down so you can conveniently look
down...when you even remember it's there?

On 6/1/2011 12:39 PM, mike wrote:

You can buy a bidet seat from Toto. No toilet paper, no problem. It
does require some wiring. You might also look at getting a Toto Drake
toilet while you're at it, if you don't already have a clog-resistant
toilet.

We have three Toto Drake toilets. All clog on a regular basis when too
much paper is used.

Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much
paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times,
with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired
of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the
toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after
a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is
obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't
gonna happen]

How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper?

Perhaps a bedside-type toilet - that doesn't USE water - is a solution? (Or
an outside privy.)

On 6/1/2011 4:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

Never seen such a thing. There are solenoid valve timers, but they have
programmable cycle times, you can't trigger the timer to start with an
external event (a flush) which is what you need.

Building a time-delay valve would not be all that difficult, though not
all that cheap.

I would probably use a waterproof lever switch in the tank to trigger a
555 timer that operated a relay that controlled a 24VAC sprinkler valve
that the supply line is connected to. I love those sprinkler valves--I
even have one controlling the water fill system to my pool to top it off.

The valve would be connected to the normally closed relay contacts
(always energized, except when the toilet is flushed).

When the switch close is detected the 555 would energize the relay coil,
the normally closed relay contacts would open, and the valve would be
open for 15 minutes. You don't need much accuracy here so a 555 would be
fine.

Switch:
http://www.drillspot.com/products/1331396/control_products_e1092-555_limit_switch

24VAC/1A adapter for sprinkler valve:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACTX-2415/24VAC-1.5A-WALL-TRANSFORMER/1.html?

24VAC Sprinkler valve: Home Depot

12VDC SPDT relay with 2A contacts, and coil that draws less than 200mA
(555 can source or sink 200mA)

555, resistors, capacitors,

12VDC supply for 555 and relay: I'd use this transformer (3:1 windings):
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PCTX-2040/20V/40VCT-1200/600MA-PC-MT-TRANSFORMER/1.html?
off the 24VAC transformer which would give you 11.3VDC after being
rectified (8*1.414) which is enough for a 12V relay.

You want to keep 120VAC away from the toilet, so everything could be
powered from a 24VAC transformer.

I thought that a switch that detects flow through a line would be better
to trigger the timer than a waterproof lever switch, but these are very
costly http://www.systemsensor.com/products/sprink/?UniqueID=11 and
may require too great a flow to even trigger on a toilet supply line (4GPM).

That said, I'd probably try a combination of things:

1) Commercial toilet paper dispenser that limits the amount of paper
2) Bidet seat
3) Turn the supply valve handle way down so it takes 15 minutes to fill
the toilet
4) Camping toilet paper or other single ply paper

HeyBub wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the
toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a
flush?

How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper?

Plunge, then flush again.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill
valve may help.

You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes
the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily reversible,
and effective. A no-brainer.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


Replace the toilet paper with a bell. Have somebody else do the wiping.

--
Dbdblocker
Planet Earth

On Jun 1, 9:20*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper,
clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the
predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up..

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet
tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously
the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]


One member of our household struggles with a similar clogging
problem. Happy to say that it has nothing to do with Alzheimer's,
age, or the amount of TP used. It's simply a volume issue.

An anti-clogging toilet is a good option, requires no additional
training on the part of the user. Won't work 100% but definitely
lessens the chances of a problem.

The bulletproof fix (even for most regular toilets) is FEFO - "flush
early, flush often". This defeats the intent of modern low-flow
toilets but I can tell you it's far preferable to the alternative
mess. For the OP, this wouldn't work well (Alzheimer's).

Having said that, bolt-on (retrofit) automatic flushers are
available. We had a bunch installed at work recently. The premise is
simple...detect when a person is present and flush at the appropriate
time (when the person leaves). I wonder if you could get one that
flushed intermittently when the person is actually sitting
down...FEFO. Might be worth looking into, if a little startling for
the user!

On Jun 2, 1:08*am, (Fake ID) wrote:
In article ,









notbob wrote:
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

Limit the amount of tp available

I was thinking that. *

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. *

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. *Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer,
the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet
paper.

But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. *There's a
tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have
no practical experience. *In the real world it usually boils down to
increasing amounts of supervision.

That's exactly where I'm coming from. With all due respect to those
caring people who choose to keep impaired loved ones at home, there
may come a time...

Meanwhile, if finances and/or social services permit, it would be
great to have a helper, at least part time. That person will get the
hang of the patient's elimination schedule and be there to help him/
her do the deed and clean up him/herself appropriately, w/o clogging
toilet.

HB

"Tony Sivori" wrote in message
news
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill
valve may help.

You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes
the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily reversible,
and effective. A no-brainer.

How does that solution keep too much toilet paper from entering the bowl?
There seems to be an assumption that an Alzheimer's patient would be like
the rest of us - too impatient to wait for the refill. I don't believe
that's the case. From my experience, they would just repeat flushing over
and over again until it flushed. The proof of that contention? They are
already in a near-endless loop with the toilet paper. Wiping and rewiping,
clogging the bowl with toilet paper. Repetitive actions are one of the
hallmarks of dementia.

The solution would more likely involve a way to *prevent* that much paper
from getting into the bowl in the first place. Attaching a bell to the
paper dispenser would enable a care giver to intervene at the right point in
the process. Having Alzheimer's doesn't mean you lose your dignity. It
just means you have trouble exercising it. The last thing my dad wanted was
help going to the bathroom. It would make him very angry and upset if you
even offered. We just got a lot of floor mats to make accident cleanup
easier.

The OP probably needs to just be happy his relative can still use the toilet
without assistance and find a toilet that can deal with copious amounts of
toilet paper without an overflow.

I also imagine that anyone else using that toilet will probably find that
*they* can't live waiting for minutes for the bowl to refill while
ironically, a person with dementia would just keep wiggling the handle until
it finally flushed. They wouldn't care how much time had passed because
their sense of time has become so distorted from the disease.

--
Bobby G.

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
One person[*] in our household will from time to time use too much
paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times,
with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired
of cleaning up.

Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the
toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after
a flush?

[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is
obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't
gonna happen]

How can delaying the tank fill deal with the problem of too much paper?

I don't expect it to.

Too much paper, in and of itself, isn't a problem, as long as the toilet is
flushed only ONCE. If it takes 20 minutes before there's enough water in the
tank for a second flush, that's plenty of time for one of us to get there with
a plunger to clear the clog.

Perhaps a bedside-type toilet - that doesn't USE water - is a solution?

Count how many problems you can see with that idea after spending more time
thinking about it than it took to type the sentence.

(Or an outside privy.)

What part of "87 year old with Alzheimer's" did you find confusing?

Robert Green wrote:

"Tony Sivori" wrote in message
news
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill
valve may help.

You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes
the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily
reversible, and effective. A no-brainer.

How does that solution keep too much toilet paper from entering the
bowl?

That wasn't the question the OP asked. The OP asked for a timer or device
to make it take 20 or so minutes to fill the tank.

There seems to be an assumption that an Alzheimer's patient would be
like the rest of us - too impatient to wait for the refill. I don't
believe that's the case. From my experience, they would just repeat
flushing over and over again until it flushed. The proof of that
contention? They are already in a near-endless loop with the toilet
paper. Wiping and rewiping, clogging the bowl with toilet paper.
Repetitive actions are one of the hallmarks of dementia.

You raise valid questions. My guess is that the OP hopes to have an
able-minded person on standby with a plunger.

The solution would more likely involve a way to *prevent* that much
paper from getting into the bowl in the first place.

I have doubts about that. The only way to truly limit the amount of paper
used would be to limit the amount of paper available. Then, given the
dementia, you could end up with the victim using bare hands and spreading
fecal matter everywhere.

Attaching a bell to the paper dispenser would enable a care giver to
intervene at the right point in the process. Having Alzheimer's doesn't
mean you lose your dignity. It just means you have trouble exercising
it. The last thing my dad wanted was help going to the bathroom. It
would make him very angry and upset if you even offered.

Now I'm puzzled. You say they get very angry if assistance is offered.
Then you suggest that the caregiver enter and offer assistance.

We just got a lot of floor mats to make accident cleanup easier.

My sincere condolences. Frequent cleanup of toilet overflow is bad enough,
but repeated soakings of the subfloor and joists will result in
significant damage.

The OP probably needs to just be happy his relative can still use the
toilet without assistance and find a toilet that can deal with copious
amounts of toilet paper without an overflow.

A good suggestion. This is a lot more expensive than reducing the cut off
valve to a trickle, but the OP might want to consider this clog resistant
toilet:

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...novations/?f=2

I also imagine that anyone else using that toilet will probably find
that *they* can't live waiting for minutes for the bowl to refill while
ironically, a person with dementia would just keep wiggling the handle
until it finally flushed. They wouldn't care how much time had passed
because their sense of time has become so distorted from the disease.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

In article , wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

"Tony Sivori" wrote in message
news
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
No easy solution on the timer that I know of. Shutting down the fill
valve may help.

You're right. Just close the cutoff until produces a trickle that takes
the desired time to fill the tank. Free, quick, easy, easily
reversible, and effective. A no-brainer.

How does that solution keep too much toilet paper from entering the
bowl?

That wasn't the question the OP asked. The OP asked for a timer or device
to make it take 20 or so minutes to fill the tank.

During which time the clog can break down, or the water in the bowl can
gradually drain away. Or both.

There seems to be an assumption that an Alzheimer's patient would be
like the rest of us - too impatient to wait for the refill. I don't
believe that's the case. From my experience, they would just repeat
flushing over and over again until it flushed. The proof of that
contention? They are already in a near-endless loop with the toilet
paper. Wiping and rewiping, clogging the bowl with toilet paper.
Repetitive actions are one of the hallmarks of dementia.

You raise valid questions. My guess is that the OP hopes to have an
able-minded person on standby with a plunger.

Bingo.

The solution would more likely involve a way to *prevent* that much
paper from getting into the bowl in the first place.

I have doubts about that. The only way to truly limit the amount of paper
used would be to limit the amount of paper available. Then, given the
dementia, you could end up with the victim using bare hands and spreading
fecal matter everywhere.

Probably not bare hands. More likely a bath towel.

[...]

We just got a lot of floor mats to make accident cleanup easier.

My sincere condolences. Frequent cleanup of toilet overflow is bad enough,
but repeated soakings of the subfloor and joists will result in
significant damage.

And I'm hoping to avoid that.

The OP probably needs to just be happy his relative can still use the
toilet without assistance and find a toilet that can deal with copious
amounts of toilet paper without an overflow.

A good suggestion. This is a lot more expensive than reducing the cut off
valve to a trickle, but the OP might want to consider this clog resistant
toilet:

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...age/innovation
s/?f=2

Noted; thank you.

We're going to start with cheap toilet paper that (hopefully) will break down
faster, and turning the shutoff valve nearly off to restrict water flow. If
that doesn't do the job, then I think the next step is, as you suggest, a
clog-resistant toilet.

I also imagine that anyone else using that toilet will probably find
that *they* can't live waiting for minutes for the bowl to refill while
ironically, a person with dementia would just keep wiggling the handle
until it finally flushed. They wouldn't care how much time had passed
because their sense of time has become so distorted from the disease.

Robert is overlooking the fact that anyone *without* cognitive impairments
does not need to wait for the tank to refill, because the rest of us use
appropriate amounts of paper *and* have the sense to not keep flushing an
already-clogged toilet. Think about it, Robert: when you flush the toilet, do
you stand there waiting for the tank to refill before you leave?

On 6/3/2011 7:57 AM, Tony Sivori wrote:

A good suggestion. This is a lot more expensive than reducing the cut off
valve to a trickle, but the OP might want to consider this clog resistant
toilet:

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...novations/?f=2

I wonder if this works better than the disappointing Toto Drake? It has
a wider trapway and larger flush valve, and is less expensive ($326 from
Amazon).

In any case, A combination of a better toilet, different toilet paper
(RV type), toilet paper dispenser that makes it harder to use so much
paper, and a delay between flushing to allow the paper a chance to break
down, might work together to solve the problem.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/thetford-aqua-soft-2-ply-rv-toilet-paper/9888

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012C0RQW

http://www.ameraproducts.com/store/p/456-Model-5071-Surface-Mounted-Single-Roll-Cast-Alum-.aspx

Now ideally what would be cool is to link an automatic paper delivery
system to each flush of the toilet so you only get a limited amount of
paper dispensed per flush.

Doug Miller wrote:
wrote:
http://www.americanstandard-us.com/l...age/innovation
s/?f=2

Noted; thank you.

I hope the valve works for you without the expense of trying a new toilet.

My 85 year old Mother is in the early stages of Alzheimers. She seems very
normal, then she will ask a conversation stopper kind of question, like do
I own or rent my house.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

On Jun 1, 3:35*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2011-06-01, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:21:19 -0700 (PDT), Thomas
Limit the amount of tp available
I was thinking that. *

Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems. *

I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems
thoroughly cleaning herself. *Improper cleaning can lead to
irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems
far worse than an overflowing toilet.

nb

Time for wetwipes, to be discarded in the closed trash can nearby?