We have a residential energy program here in Ontario (Canada) that I
really don't agree with (called the Micro-Fit program) where the
electricity from roof-mounted solar panels is purchased by the
provincial power authority (OPA) at something like 80 cents per kw-hour
(a crazy-high fee that will have to be subsidized by somebody - ie the
general population, taxpayers, etc).

I believe all the details for this can be found he

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/

A neighbor of mine had a free evaluation done on his home to see how
many panels situated on his roof would generate how much electricity.

The problem he's facing is that two different levels of power
distribution (the city-owned municipal owned and operated company, and
the provincial or regional power supplier or distributor that either
supplies the electricity to our city or owns the high and medium-voltage
lines and sub-stations where the electricity is stepped down) are
pointing the finger at each other by stating that there is a capacity
problem caused by the other as the reason why his solar panel
installation (which he hasn't yet contracted to be installed) can't be
connected to the grid.

It's my impression that any electricy that he'd be generating would
essentially be 2-phase 208 volts (ie - identical to the service that
enters our homes) and this electricity would simply be inserted or wired
in parallel through a meter to his existing electrical service. I don't
see how the capacity (or lack thereof) of the sub-station serving our
corner of the city plays any role as to whether or not our local grid
can accept and utilize the estimated 5 or 6 kw that his panels are
likely to put out at maximum.

This issue has recently come up as indicated by this:

-----------------
The OPA is proposing that all new microFIT applications submitted on or
after December 8, 2010, would need an offer to connect from their local
distribution company before the OPA issues a microFIT conditional offer
of contract. The proposed rule change can be viewed here.

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...ction-Rule.php
------------------

According to this document:

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...m-Overview.pdf

Page 18 shows the most likely connection scheme - which is to connect
the Microfit PV project to the grid on the customer's side of his load
meter (ie - "behind the meter" - the load meter that is).

My basic thesis here is that I think any argument about the capacity of
the "grid" (where-ever or what-ever the "grid" is) being at or near
capacity and thus the application for eligibility to get the green light
for approval is bogus. We are talking about installations that can't
generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

*We are talking about installations that can't
generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

On Apr 4, 3:17*am, Mark wrote:
**We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic *economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. What comes in can equally well go out.
But see diversity factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. (UK)
It's just a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

"harry" wrote in message
...

It's just a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market. There are, however, other factors. I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn

On Apr 4, 12:36*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...

It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. *That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market. *There are, however, other factors. *I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane *and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn

Heh Heh. It gets better than that here (UK). The money back is
inflation linked, guaranteed for 25 years. So as the years go by the
return increases.
It's also tax free income.

http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/eligible/levels/

On Apr 4, 12:36*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...

It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. *That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market. *There are, however, other factors. *I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane *and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn

We don't have hurricanes here so I dunno about that. You can put as
many brackets on as you like to secure the rails the panels fix to. I
imagine it becomes pointless after a while, the roof is only of
limited strength anyway.

There are many fixing systems,depending on what sort of roof you
have. I went along to the seller's depot and checked them all out
before I agreed to the deal. I was worried about roof leaks.

On 04/04/2011 01:36 PM, vaughn wrote:
wrote in message
...

It's just a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market. There are, however, other factors. I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn


Up front - you should in any case arrange for your building insurance to
be extended to include cover for the panels. Why? Because if it does
blow away in a gale or catch fire or whatever and they don't know about
it, in the worst case the insurance could refuse to pay for the damage.
The additional insurance for my roof panels costs here (Germany) €88
per year. There are cheaper offers but I preferred to use the same
company for all the building related insurance to avoid any finger
pointing problems in the event of a claim.
It is possible that the insurer might demand that the roof structure be
checked by a surveyor before you start work. As far as any damage to the
roof during installation, a reputable installation/roofing company
should in any case have professional liability insurance.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:36:22 -0400, "vaughn" wrote:


"harry" wrote in message
...

It's just a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market.

As long as the government can rob peter to pay you.

There are, however, other factors. I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn

On Apr 6, 1:45*am, "
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:36:22 -0400, "vaughn" wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
....

It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

I would certainly be tempted by that deal. *That's better than the long-term
return of the stock market.

As long as the government can rob peter to pay you.



There are, however, other factors. *I would need to
be convinced that the panels 1) would likely survive a hurricane *and 2) their
installation would not damage my roofing system.

Vaughn- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not taxpayer funded. It's funded by other electricity users in
the UK so ultimately increasing the price of electricity. Still, I
intend to be a receiver of money rather than a giver.

On 4/4/2011 4:35 AM, harry wrote:
On Apr 4, 3:17 am, wrote:
We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. What comes in can equally well go out.
But see diversity factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. (UK)
It's just a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

Keep an eye on your solar array my friend, those things like air
conditioners around here are being stolen at an increasing rate.
People install them at their remote cabins or camps only to return
to a powerless abode. Thieves will steel them while a home owner
is asleep at night!

http://www.usedsolarpowerpanels.com/...ar-panels.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cc3rkl

TDD

On Apr 4, 1:52*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 4/4/2011 4:35 AM, harry wrote:





On Apr 4, 3:17 am, *wrote:
* *We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic *economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. *What comes in can equally well go out.
But see diversity factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. *(UK)
It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

Keep an eye on your solar array my friend, those things like air
conditioners around here are being stolen at an increasing rate.
People install them at their remote cabins or camps only to return
to a powerless abode. Thieves will steel them while a home owner
is asleep at night!

http://www.usedsolarpowerpanels.com/...ng-solar-panel...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cc3rkl

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I haven't heard about it over here yet. Just a matter of time I
suppose.
However we live in a bungalow so they are not high off the ground.

There is big problems with getting lead stolen off of roofs over here,
mostly churches. Small step to solar panels for the *******s.

I will give it some thought, I never considered the matter. You are
right. Maybe a motion sensor on the roof.

Any one that fits them and gets signed up, gets about $0.65/Kwh for
everything generated whether you use it yourself or not. You get an
extra $0.05 for every Kwh exported. Plus there is what you save off
your electricity bill.
I am having a 4Kwp array, this is the top of the smallest (highest
return band)

If you are retired, you can do a lot of power using activities around
midday on a sunny day.
If you bought an electric car, you could be truely green.

On Apr 4, 8:52*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 4/4/2011 4:35 AM, harry wrote:









On Apr 4, 3:17 am, *wrote:
* *We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic *economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. *What comes in can equally well go out.
But see diversity factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. *(UK)
It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

Keep an eye on your solar array my friend, those things like air
conditioners around here are being stolen at an increasing rate.
People install them at their remote cabins or camps only to return
to a powerless abode. Thieves will steel them while a home owner
is asleep at night!

http://www.usedsolarpowerpanels.com/...ng-solar-panel...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cc3rkl

TDD

A lot of them were sold for mountain vacation homes. Thieves steal
them often for the copper though there is not that much copper in
them.

On Apr 13, 4:02*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 4, 8:52*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





On 4/4/2011 4:35 AM, harry wrote:

On Apr 4, 3:17 am, *wrote:
* *We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic *economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. *What comes in can equally well go out.
But see diversity factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. *(UK)
It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

Keep an eye on your solar array my friend, those things like air
conditioners around here are being stolen at an increasing rate.
People install them at their remote cabins or camps only to return
to a powerless abode. Thieves will steel them while a home owner
is asleep at night!

http://www.usedsolarpowerpanels.com/...ng-solar-panel...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cc3rkl

TDD

A lot of them were sold for mountain vacation homes. Thieves steal
them often for *the copper though there is not that much copper in
them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They steal themto sell them.There is no copper in them apart from the
connecting wires.

On Apr 4, 5:35*am, harry wrote:
On Apr 4, 3:17*am, Mark wrote:

**We are talking about installations that can't

generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

agreed, this is actually a bureaucratic *economics or business problem
and they are trying to call it a technical problem.

It isn't a technical problem.

Mark

The above comment is exactly right.
There is no technical problem. The PV array can be sized to overcome
any supply side issues. *What comes in can equally well go out.

It can equally well come and go provided the distribution system that
is there can handle it. It seems to me that if you have a distribution
system that is already at 100% of it's capacity, then strange as it
may
sound, adding more generating capacity and putting it onto that part
of the system could exceed it's capacity. Now it would seem unlikely
that taken together all the solar panels in that particular problem
distribution system could be generating a net addition to the system
during peak demand. In other words, if it's 100F at 3PM, what would
happen? Would everyone with solar have their AC on and be either
taking power from the grid or at least not giving it back? Or
because
of being paid 80C a kwh to generate electricity, will people be
putting
in large systems and leaving their AC off? If the latter, then it
would
seem to me that taken together enough solar panel systems could
put more power into the distribution system than it could handle.
Certainly given the small penetration of solar, you would not think
a few more would really matter, but at some point, they do start
to add up.

It's also possible that just like with national electric codes there
are
some codes or rules that apply to electric utilities that say in
essence you can't ever allow more than X generating capacity
to be connected to a grid with certain characteristics, regardless
of where it comes from. Could have been put in place before
anyone thought of small solar generators....

Now is that the real reason behind what's going on? Don't know,
but it's certainly theoretically possible.






But see diversity factor.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_factor
This has the biggest bearing on the matter.
Sounds tome that there are politcal/financial matters yet unresovled.

I am having a 4Kwp array fitted to my roof in two weeks time. *(UK)
It's just *a money thing. I shall have a 12% return on capital.

" wrote:

In other words, if it's 100F at 3PM, what would happen?
Would everyone with solar have their AC on and be either taking
power from the grid or at least not giving it back? Or because
of being paid 80C a kwh to generate electricity, will people be
putting in large systems and leaving their AC off?

Under the terms of the Ontario Microfit program, you (the home owner)
with a (typical) 3kw to 6kw solar array, will be paid 80 cents /kwh for
20 years. The going rate for buying electricity in this market at the
residential level is (when you factor in all the various transmission
and delivery costs) about 15 cents / kwh.

You are paid 80 cents / kwh for *any* electricity leaving your array (a
billing meter is installed right after your invertors). It doesn't
matter if your own home (AC unit, etc) will suck 100% of that solar
energy with none of it going back into the grid. In fact, it's probable
that on that hot summer day that your home will still be pulling energy
from the municipal grid - just not as much because of the contribution
from your own panels.

Now is that the real reason behind what's going on? Don't know,
but it's certainly theoretically possible.

There has been some mention of a PF (power factor) issue when it comes
to these panels.

But still - you can't push more electricity onto a network than the load
is asking for (given that your invertors are functioning correctly I
guess).

On 4/4/2011 9:16 AM, Home Guy wrote:
" wrote:

In other words, if it's 100F at 3PM, what would happen?
Would everyone with solar have their AC on and be either taking
power from the grid or at least not giving it back? Or because
of being paid 80C a kwh to generate electricity, will people be
putting in large systems and leaving their AC off?

Under the terms of the Ontario Microfit program, you (the home owner)
with a (typical) 3kw to 6kw solar array, will be paid 80 cents /kwh for
20 years. The going rate for buying electricity in this market at the
residential level is (when you factor in all the various transmission
and delivery costs) about 15 cents / kwh.

You are paid 80 cents / kwh for *any* electricity leaving your array (a
billing meter is installed right after your invertors). It doesn't
matter if your own home (AC unit, etc) will suck 100% of that solar
energy with none of it going back into the grid. In fact, it's probable
that on that hot summer day that your home will still be pulling energy
from the municipal grid - just not as much because of the contribution
from your own panels.

Now is that the real reason behind what's going on? Don't know,
but it's certainly theoretically possible.

There has been some mention of a PF (power factor) issue when it comes
to these panels.

But still - you can't push more electricity onto a network than the load
is asking for (given that your invertors are functioning correctly I
guess).

One issue that utilities worry about is the available fault current.
The breaker main in a typical home might be able to safely interrupt as
much as 10 kA. The current of a dead short in your home is a function
of the sources feeding it. If the total is less than 10 kA, the breaker
opens and everyone's safe. If the sources could feed more than 10 kA,
the breaker may fuse/melt and the fault will continue to draw current
and your house burns down.

So when adding new sub-station equipment and generating units, they have
to calculate the available fault currents and make sure it's still under
the breaker/protection equipment capabilities.


All that being said, I can't honestly think a small grid-tie PV
installation would make enough of a difference to be a problem. Worst
case is your neighbor has a fault and the combined current from the
utility and your PV setup exceeds his breaker's interrupting capacity.

But a good EE could sharpen his pencil once and do the calcs and
probably find there is a wide margin between what the pole transformer
can supply to a fault and what your PV system would supply. They're
probably just to worried about their liability to bother.

daestrom
P.S. Maybe if every household in a whole development had such a
microFIT installation? I'd have to see the numbers though to believe it.

On Apr 4, 9:16*am, Home Guy wrote:
" wrote:
In other words, if it's 100F at 3PM, what would happen? *
Would everyone with solar have their AC on and be either taking
power from the grid or at least not giving it back? * Or because
of being paid 80C a kwh to generate electricity, will people be
putting in large systems and leaving their AC off?

Under the terms of the Ontario Microfit program, you (the home owner)
with a (typical) 3kw to 6kw solar array, will be paid 80 cents /kwh for
20 years. *The going rate for buying electricity in this market at the
residential level is (when you factor in all the various transmission
and delivery costs) about 15 cents / kwh.

You are paid 80 cents / kwh for *any* electricity leaving your array (a
billing meter is installed right after your invertors). *It doesn't
matter if your own home (AC unit, etc) will suck 100% of that solar
energy with none of it going back into the grid. *In fact, it's probable
that on that hot summer day that your home will still be pulling energy
from the municipal grid - just not as much because of the contribution
from your own panels.

Now is that the real reason behind what's going on? * Don't know,
but it's certainly theoretically possible.

There has been some mention of a PF (power factor) issue when it comes
to these panels.

But still - you can't push more electricity onto a network than the load
is asking for (given that your invertors are functioning correctly I
guess).

Actually you can and do as I understand it. To pump power into the
grid you supply a slightly higher voltage than what is in the line.
When spread over all the loads on the grid the change in voltage is
next to nothing. If enough inputs are made by others the voltage will
rise, and it is allowed to so long as it stays within a certain
range. If it is going to go too high it is up to the utility to
reduce the input at sources they control.

On 4/4/2011 6:16 AM Home Guy spake thus:

You are paid 80 cents / kwh for *any* electricity leaving your array (a
billing meter is installed right after your invertors). It doesn't
matter if your own home (AC unit, etc) will suck 100% of that solar
energy with none of it going back into the grid.

and

But still - you can't push more electricity onto a network than the load
is asking for (given that your invertors are functioning correctly I
guess).

Are you sure about that first statement? Pardon me if I misunderstand
what you wrote, but don't you only get paid for the *net current*
leaving your meter? If you're generating 5KW but "sucking" 6KW into your
AC, etc., then you have a 1KW net draw, so you're not gonna get paid
anything, correct?

That second statement is correct: you can't "push" electrons into the
grid. But it doesn't matter *how* your inverters are working; it's a
basic law of physics.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On 04/04/2011 03:08 AM, Home Guy wrote:
We have a residential energy program here in Ontario (Canada) that I
really don't agree with (called the Micro-Fit program) where the
electricity from roof-mounted solar panels is purchased by the
provincial power authority (OPA) at something like 80 cents per kw-hour
(a crazy-high fee that will have to be subsidized by somebody - ie the
general population, taxpayers, etc).

I believe all the details for this can be found he

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/

A neighbor of mine had a free evaluation done on his home to see how
many panels situated on his roof would generate how much electricity.

The problem he's facing is that two different levels of power
distribution (the city-owned municipal owned and operated company, and
the provincial or regional power supplier or distributor that either
supplies the electricity to our city or owns the high and medium-voltage
lines and sub-stations where the electricity is stepped down) are
pointing the finger at each other by stating that there is a capacity
problem caused by the other as the reason why his solar panel
installation (which he hasn't yet contracted to be installed) can't be
connected to the grid.

It's my impression that any electricy that he'd be generating would
essentially be 2-phase 208 volts (ie - identical to the service that
enters our homes) and this electricity would simply be inserted or wired
in parallel through a meter to his existing electrical service. I don't
see how the capacity (or lack thereof) of the sub-station serving our
corner of the city plays any role as to whether or not our local grid
can accept and utilize the estimated 5 or 6 kw that his panels are
likely to put out at maximum.

This issue has recently come up as indicated by this:

-----------------
The OPA is proposing that all new microFIT applications submitted on or
after December 8, 2010, would need an offer to connect from their local
distribution company before the OPA issues a microFIT conditional offer
of contract. The proposed rule change can be viewed here.

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...ction-Rule.php
------------------

According to this document:

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...m-Overview.pdf

Page 18 shows the most likely connection scheme - which is to connect
the Microfit PV project to the grid on the customer's side of his load
meter (ie - "behind the meter" - the load meter that is).

My basic thesis here is that I think any argument about the capacity of
the "grid" (where-ever or what-ever the "grid" is) being at or near
capacity and thus the application for eligibility to get the green light
for approval is bogus. We are talking about installations that can't
generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

The bark may be worse than the bite. The company who did my PV
installation also did the entire beaurocratic paperchase for me. They
sent me a whole pile of application forms to fill in, and I sent them
all back with a limited power of attorney to let them get on with it.

I can understand that the grid operators need to know how many PV
installations there are and how they are all connected.

On Apr 5, 2:00*pm, Tom P wrote:
On 04/04/2011 03:08 AM, Home Guy wrote:





We have a residential energy program here in Ontario (Canada) that I
really don't agree with (called the Micro-Fit program) where the
electricity from roof-mounted solar panels is purchased by the
provincial power authority (OPA) at something like 80 cents per kw-hour
(a crazy-high fee that will have to be subsidized by somebody - ie the
general population, taxpayers, etc).

I believe all the details for this can be found he

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/

A neighbor of mine had a free evaluation done on his home to see how
many panels situated on his roof would generate how much electricity.

The problem he's facing is that two different levels of power
distribution (the city-owned municipal owned and operated company, and
the provincial or regional power supplier or distributor that either
supplies the electricity to our city or owns the high and medium-voltage
lines and sub-stations where the electricity is stepped down) are
pointing the finger at each other by stating that there is a capacity
problem caused by the other as the reason why his solar panel
installation (which he hasn't yet contracted to be installed) can't be
connected to the grid.

It's my impression that any electricy that he'd be generating would
essentially be 2-phase 208 volts (ie - identical to the service that
enters our homes) and this electricity would simply be inserted or wired
in parallel through a meter to his existing electrical service. *I don't
see how the capacity (or lack thereof) of the sub-station serving our
corner of the city plays any role as to whether or not our local grid
can accept and utilize the estimated 5 or 6 kw that his panels are
likely to put out at maximum.

This issue has recently come up as indicated by this:

-----------------
The OPA is proposing that all new microFIT applications submitted on or
after December 8, 2010, would need an offer to connect from their local
distribution company before the OPA issues a microFIT conditional offer
of contract. *The proposed rule change can be viewed here.

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...10-December-8-...
------------------

According to this document:

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...m-Overview.pdf

Page 18 shows the most likely connection scheme - which is to connect
the Microfit PV project to the grid on the customer's side of his load
meter (ie - "behind the meter" - the load meter that is).

My basic thesis here is that I think any argument about the capacity of
the "grid" (where-ever or what-ever the "grid" is) being at or near
capacity and thus the application for eligibility to get the green light
for approval is bogus. *We are talking about installations that can't
generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

The bark may be worse than the bite. The company who did my PV
installation also did the entire beaurocratic paperchase for me. They
sent me a whole pile of application forms to fill in, and I sent them
all back with a limited power of attorney to let them get on with it.

I can understand that the grid operators need to know how many PV
installations there are and how they are all connected.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I have all the paperwork to hand. You are not going to get paid
without it!

On Apr 3, 9:08*pm, Home Guy wrote:
We have a residential energy program here in Ontario (Canada) that I
really don't agree with (called the Micro-Fit program) where the
electricity from roof-mounted solar panels is purchased by the
provincial power authority (OPA) at something like 80 cents per kw-hour
(a crazy-high fee that will have to be subsidized by somebody - ie the
general population, taxpayers, etc).

I believe all the details for this can be found he

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/

A neighbor of mine had a free evaluation done on his home to see how
many panels situated on his roof would generate how much electricity.

The problem he's facing is that two different levels of power
distribution (the city-owned municipal owned and operated company, and
the provincial or regional power supplier or distributor that either
supplies the electricity to our city or owns the high and medium-voltage
lines and sub-stations where the electricity is stepped down) are
pointing the finger at each other by stating that there is a capacity
problem caused by the other as the reason why his solar panel
installation (which he hasn't yet contracted to be installed) can't be
connected to the grid.

It's my impression that any electricy that he'd be generating would
essentially be 2-phase 208 volts (ie - identical to the service that
enters our homes) and this electricity would simply be inserted or wired
in parallel through a meter to his existing electrical service. *I don't
see how the capacity (or lack thereof) of the sub-station serving our
corner of the city plays any role as to whether or not our local grid
can accept and utilize the estimated 5 or 6 kw that his panels are
likely to put out at maximum.

This issue has recently come up as indicated by this:

-----------------
The OPA is proposing that all new microFIT applications submitted on or
after December 8, 2010, would need an offer to connect from their local
distribution company before the OPA issues a microFIT conditional offer
of contract. *The proposed rule change can be viewed here.

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...10-December-8-...
------------------

According to this document:

http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca...m-Overview.pdf

Page 18 shows the most likely connection scheme - which is to connect
the Microfit PV project to the grid on the customer's side of his load
meter (ie - "behind the meter" - the load meter that is).

My basic thesis here is that I think any argument about the capacity of
the "grid" (where-ever or what-ever the "grid" is) being at or near
capacity and thus the application for eligibility to get the green light
for approval is bogus. *We are talking about installations that can't
generate more than 10 kw - and more likely would only generate 5 or 6 kw
on a mid-summer day, with the bulk of that energy being consumed by the
home owner's own AC unit (I'm sure) with little or none to spare to be
injected back into the neighborhood grid.

Comments?

FLUX THEM - KEEP IT OFF THE GRID.
IF YOU CAN, JUST OPEN A SMALL LOCAL DISTRIBUTION NEYWORK TO A
NEIGHBORING SHOP, FAMILY, OR SMALL GROUP OF OFFSET TENANTS FOR A SET
FEE.
YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR ENERGY SYSTEM ON ANY NATIONALGRID, THEY FUNCTION
BEST IN THEIR OWN LOOPS....ANY ENERGY ADDITIVES WILL ADULTERATE THE
SUPPLY...EVEN IF IN A SMALL QUANTA.
NOT TO MENTION WHAT IT CAN DO TO YPUR SYSTEM, SHOULD IT SWITCH TRY TO
CONTROL YOURS WITHOUT PROPER ELECTRICAL/MECHANICAL CO-NOMENCLATURE.

PAT ECUM