I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:
http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips..._parallel.html

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:16:36 +0000 (UTC), Aaron FIsher
wrote:

I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:
http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips..._parallel.html

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

I'd re-pipe them so one heater serves half the house, the other serves
the other half. Especially those with bathtubs (which use the most
hot water). If the plumbing change is too much work, at least
parallel them. Actually with the proper valves, you could make them
for both series and parallel, depending on which valves are open and
which are closed.

You have a 10,000 gallon storage tank WHERE???????
I dont get that part....

My whole farm has a 70 gallon (blue) tank. I think the biggest tank I
have ever seen sold for residential and farm use is 300 gallon.

Are you talking about a city or town water tower? If so, why do you
need a separate pump? I dont understand this....

**He has a well. A well which produces very little water, so it's pumped
into storage tanks, then a typical well pressure pump, pumps it into a
pressure tank and into the house plumbing

On Mar 21, 11:16*pm, Aaron FIsher wrote:
I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

The series configuration will allow you to increase the capacity
without all the repiping required to add another heater in parallel.
They simply cut and splice the 2nd heater in the (usually) utility
room. To add a 2nd heater in parallel would require additional piping
runs to serve the house (usually the new addition) and it's much
simpler and cheaper to just add in series.

This could present a flow problem if the extra fixtures are too much
for the size of the line. In that case, parallel would be required to
allow for adequate flow. For example, the original heater may be on
1/2 inch line. When it's time to add the additional fixtures, they
should increase the pipe size up to a convenient branch point.

On Mar 21, 11:16*pm, Aaron FIsher wrote:
I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

I just looked at the site you linked and learned something new. A
parallel configuration that they describe is the most balanced way to
heat your water. In the example they show, they still need to
increase the pipe size of the hot water outlet in order to handle the
increased flow demand. The benefit to the parallel config is that
both heaters will equally be heating water when hot water has been
drawn out. This is an advantage when large volumes are used.

The advantage of a series config. are that you can get away with
having a lower powered heater as 2nd in line, as that one doesn't have
to do much heating (it receives the hot water from the first heater).
My setup is with 2 identically powered heaters and I always knew the
second heater wasn't doing as much work. In my situation, the first
heater's elements went out first, presumably due to overwork.

Aaron FIsher wrote:

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the
serial connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would
design a system with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

Clearly for redundancy.

Don't ever want to be without hot water.

On Mar 21, 10:16*pm, Aaron FIsher wrote:
I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

The 1st is a "water heater"...the 2nd is a "hot-water heater".

On Mar 21, 11:16*pm, Aaron FIsher wrote:
I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

Two in series is to provide more hot water. If you think you have
more hot water than you need, turn the first one down or off. For
example if you do not have that many people living in the house at the
present.

You can't plumb two hw heaters to different parts of the house without
significant replumbing work. You can't just hook them in parallel
because the flow would never match and you would get temp fluctuations
when one of them ran out and the other didn't.

The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is
connected to. That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house.
Sometimes they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath
that is really far away form the hw heater.

What you have is installed correctly. Any poster that says otherwise
doesn't know what they are talking about. What is your issue with
it? Are you just trying to understand it?

On 3/21/2011 11:16 PM, Aaron FIsher wrote:
I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump& 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:
http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips..._parallel.html

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.


Plumb in series to save energy. The first tank in series only ever
turns on if the second tank falls below a certain *critical*
temperature. It then delivers warm water to the second tank instead of
cold water, so the second tank has the capability to heat it hotter.
This way you normally only have heat loss from the second tank.

On Mar 22, 8:03*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Mar 21, 11:16*pm, Aaron FIsher wrote:





I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump & 40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

From reading this web site:http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

Two in series is to provide more hot water. *If you think you have
more hot water than you need, turn the first one down or off. *For
example if you do not have that many people living in the house at the
present.

You can't plumb two hw heaters to different parts of the house without
significant replumbing work. *You can't just hook them in parallel
because the flow would never match and you would get temp fluctuations
when one of them ran out and the other didn't.

The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is
connected to. *That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house.
Sometimes they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath
that is really far away form the hw heater.

What you have is installed correctly. *Any poster that says otherwise
doesn't know what they are talking about. *What is your issue with
it? *Are you just trying to understand it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, that must be me. Because in a friends house that is 5 years old
he has two water heaters connected in parallel, exactly like the
drawing in the link. And I see nothing wrong with it. You claim
the
water drawn from the two tanks will not be equal. That's likely true.
They won't be EXACTLY equal, but with two identical tanks, it's going
to be close. Why would water prefer to go through one versus the
other? It won't and the water will mix, with no temp fluctuations.
As HeyBub pointed out, it also
offers redundancy. If one heater fails, you just turn off the valve
and
you still have hot water. You could even take it out, replace it,
without
losing hot water to the house.

The only downside to doing it in parallel is that while you will get
significantly more hot water, you won't get as much as you would
with them in
series. As you draw water, both tanks will start to fill from the
bottom with cold water. Keep pulling hot water and eventually
both tanks will get to the point where the water is now luke warm.
That point might be when they both have delivered about 3/4 of
their capacity, for a total hot water delivered of about 1.5 tanks.

On the other hand, if you do them is series, you could draw the
entire first tank of water with very little temp change. It's being
refilled with equally hot water from the second, until the second
one in turn starts to run out. Assuming again that occurs when about
3/4 tank of new cold water has entered, you'd get the full first tank
of water, plus 3/4 of a tank from the second, for a total of 1 3/4
tanks of hot water.

So, take your pick. Either way is OK, depending on your criteria.

On Mar 22, 9:40*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/21/2011 11:16 PM, Aaron FIsher wrote:





I realize two major mistakes of my last post on this topic:
- How would you set up two 50 gallon hot water heaters in series?

My mistakes were that I confused everyone by mixing series and parallel
(they're clearly hooked up in series); and I didn't mention the
particulars.

The particulars (AFAIK) a
- Well pumps cold water out of the ground
- It goes to 10,000 gallon storage tanks
- It then goes to a pressure pump& *40-gallon (approx) blue tank
- It then goes to the FIRST propane 50 gallon hot water heater at about
135 degrees
- The output of that first hot water heater goes to the input of the
second (exact same duplicate unit) hot water heater set to the same
temperature
- The output of that second hot water heater goes to the house but there
is a small grinder-sized hot water recirculating pump in the mix on the
final output

*From reading this web site:
http://www.chinawinds.co.uk/diy_tips...s_and_parallel...

I find that serial connections:
- Often use non-identical hot water heaters (mine are identical)
- The second heater does almost no work
- All the work is done by the first heater

They don't say "WHY" you'd want this (if both tanks are identical).

They did say that it happens when a house is expanded and this house WAS
expanded (they added two bathrooms and a maid's kitchen).

But, it seems to me it SHOULD have been done in parallel (to have more
water). Weird, but the web site gives no advantages to serial connections!

They say the parallel connection delivers more hot water than the serial
connection. So, I'm REALLY confused now why anyone would design a system
with two series hot water heaters that are identical.

Plumb in series to save energy. *The first tank in series only ever
turns on if the second tank falls below a certain *critical*
temperature. *It then delivers warm water to the second tank instead of
cold water, so the second tank has the capability to heat it hotter.
This way you normally only have heat loss from the second tank.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Without two tanks of water already heated and available on demand,
he will not have as much hot water available. And you still have to
have
the second tank warming up water to some temp, so I don't see the
energy savings. If energy savings is the goal along with continuous
amounts of hot water, then I'd just go with a tankless, assuming the
install is reasonable.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 00:33:40 -0600, jw wrote:
You have a 10,000 gallon storage tank WHERE??????? I dont get that
part....

Actually it's two 5,000 gallon water storage tanks, in parallel, on the
property. Everyone here has multiple 5,000 gallon tanks (it's dry country
where it never rains from about May to about December, not a drop).

The building codes kick in differently if you have 5,0001 gallon tanks so
everyone here has two or three 5,000 gallon tanks (some have four, but
that's overkill for home use). The wells run dry often so it could take a
week or more to fill up a dry tank.

Hope that answers the question.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:47:37 -0700, teabird wrote:
The series configuration will allow you to increase the capacity without
all the repiping required to add another heater in parallel. They simply
cut and splice the 2nd heater in the (usually) utility room.

This makes sense. When they expanded (added two bathrooms and a nanny
suite with a half kitchen), they might have simply added the second water
heater in series.

I guess what I'll do is turn the first heater down to half of what the
second heater is set to (1/2 of 130 is about 65 degrees).

Does that make sense?
- Set the first water heater to 65 degrees,
- Set the second water heater to double that (130 degrees).

That way, both are doing half the work.

Does that make sense?

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:03:21 -0700, teabird wrote:
My setup is with 2 identically powered heaters and I always knew the
second heater wasn't doing as much work. In my situation, the first
heater's elements went out first, presumably due to overwork.

Hi Teabird,
Your setup seems similar to mine. Two equally sized series water heaters
(in my case, they're both propane as we have few city utilities out here).

What we can do, I surmise, is simply set the first water heater to do
half the work that the second water heater is doing.

The only way we can do that, without plumbing changes (which isn't the
point), is to set the temperature to half the work load of the second
heater.

As far as I can tell, that's our only option for optimizing the system
that we're stuck with (without plumbing changes).

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is connected
to. That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house. Sometimes
they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath that is
really far away form the hw heater.

Hi James,
You seem to understand what you're talking about. You make sense.

The only thing I didn't say (I didn't think it mattered until I read your
response above) is that the little black recirculating pump is far away
from any bathroom. It's in understory of the house right next to the two
hot water heaters in series. Nowhere near any particular bathroom.

There is only one recirculating pump (AFAIK) because I can hear it kick
in as it hums with an even tone when it kicks on (a dozen or more times a
day).

The recirculating pump 'must' be working because we have hot water at
even the furthest fixtures in about ten or fifteen seconds.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
What you have is installed correctly. Any poster that says otherwise
doesn't know what they are talking about. What is your issue with it?
Are you just trying to understand it?

Hi James,
Yes, I'm simply trying to understand WHY they did what they did and WHAT
I should do with the temperature settings (which is the only thing I
'can' change).

I 'think' now that they simply added a second heater when they added the
two bathrooms and the nanny suite (which is far away from the hot water
heaters).

I 'think' I should set the first heater (i.e., 'water heater' as someone
deftly said) to half the work load of the second heater (i.e., 'hot water
heater' as was deftly said).

Since I read the thread about 140 degrees being optimal, I think I'll set
the second (hot water heater) to 140 degrees. Now I need to figure out
what the first heater should be set to for half the work.

If the incoming water is, say, 50 degrees, I guess I take 140-50=90
degrees and half of 90 degrees is 45 degrees.

Does it therefore make sense that I'm halving the load by setting:
- The (first) 'water heater' to 95 degrees
- The (second) 'hot water heater' to 140 degrees

It makes perfect sense, if the water coming in is 0 degrees.
If the water coming in is warmer than 0 degrees, then you'd
need a different calculation.

The higher temps make the WH work harder, so the first WH
should be more of the degree rise.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Aaron FIsher" wrote in message
...

I guess what I'll do is turn the first heater down to half
of what the
second heater is set to (1/2 of 130 is about 65 degrees).

Does that make sense?
- Set the first water heater to 65 degrees,
- Set the second water heater to double that (130 degrees).

That way, both are doing half the work.

Does that make sense?

Much better. The first heat rise is easier (since the delta
T between the flame and the water is greater). The later
heat rise is more dificult.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Aaron FIsher" wrote in message
...

If the incoming water is, say, 50 degrees, I guess I take
140-50=90
degrees and half of 90 degrees is 45 degrees.

Does it therefore make sense that I'm halving the load by
setting:
- The (first) 'water heater' to 95 degrees
- The (second) 'hot water heater' to 140 degrees

On Mar 22, 11:44*am, Aaron FIsher wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
What you have is installed correctly. *Any poster that says otherwise
doesn't know what they are talking about. *What is your issue with it?
Are you just trying to understand it?

Hi James,
Yes, I'm simply trying to understand WHY they did what they did and WHAT
I should do with the temperature settings (which is the only thing I
'can' change).

I 'think' now that they simply added a second heater when they added the
two bathrooms and the nanny suite (which is far away from the hot water
heaters).

I 'think' I should set the first heater (i.e., 'water heater' as someone
deftly said) to half the work load of the second heater (i.e., 'hot water
heater' as was deftly said).

Since I read the thread about 140 degrees being optimal, I think I'll set
the second (hot water heater) to 140 degrees. Now I need to figure out
what the first heater should be set to for half the work.

If the incoming water is, say, 50 degrees, I guess I take 140-50=90
degrees and half of 90 degrees is 45 degrees.

Does it therefore make sense that I'm halving the load by setting:
- The (first) 'water heater' to 95 degrees
- The (second) 'hot water heater' to 140 degrees

I take it you do not have enough people in the house to be concerned
about running out of hot water? If not you may want to consider
simply turning the first one off. Otherwise your 90 deg setting is
fine.

On Mar 22, 12:10*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:44*am, Aaron FIsher wrote:





On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
What you have is installed correctly. *Any poster that says otherwise
doesn't know what they are talking about. *What is your issue with it?
Are you just trying to understand it?

Hi James,
Yes, I'm simply trying to understand WHY they did what they did and WHAT
I should do with the temperature settings (which is the only thing I
'can' change).

I 'think' now that they simply added a second heater when they added the
two bathrooms and the nanny suite (which is far away from the hot water
heaters).

I 'think' I should set the first heater (i.e., 'water heater' as someone
deftly said) to half the work load of the second heater (i.e., 'hot water
heater' as was deftly said).

Since I read the thread about 140 degrees being optimal, I think I'll set
the second (hot water heater) to 140 degrees. Now I need to figure out
what the first heater should be set to for half the work.

If the incoming water is, say, 50 degrees, I guess I take 140-50=90
degrees and half of 90 degrees is 45 degrees.

Does it therefore make sense that I'm halving the load by setting:
- The (first) 'water heater' to 95 degrees
- The (second) 'hot water heater' to 140 degrees

I take it you do not have enough people in the house to be concerned
about running out of hot water? *If not you may want to consider
simply turning the first one off. *Otherwise your 90 deg setting is
fine.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want the absolute max amount of hot water possible, then set
them both
to the same temp, which is whatever temp you want the water
to be coming out of your faucet, eg1 30. If you want slightly less
max hot
water, but some energy savings, then the water heater the cold water
enters could be set
at the lowest temp. The idea here is that with a lower temp in
the first tank, that water will still be hot enough so that after it
enters the second tank, the burner in that tank will have enough
output to heat it up to the desired temp, eg 130, while water is
being drawn. I would suspect the second arrangement offers
slightly less max hot water volume, but some energy savings, as
the one tank will be holding water at a somewhat lower temp.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:10:57 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
I take it you do not have enough people in the house to be concerned
about running out of hot water? If not you may want to consider simply
turning the first one off. Otherwise your 90 deg setting is fine.

The only time we run out is when the teen is in the shower.

And, I suspect, it wouldn't matter how much hot water we had, it would be
used up until it's cold.

On Mar 22, 11:39*am, Aaron FIsher wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is connected
to. *That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house. Sometimes
they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath that is
really far away form the hw heater.

Hi James,
You seem to understand what you're talking about. You make sense.

The only thing I didn't say (I didn't think it mattered until I read your
response above) is that the little black recirculating pump is far away
from any bathroom. It's in understory of the house right next to the two
hot water heaters in series. Nowhere near any particular bathroom.

There is only one recirculating pump (AFAIK) because I can hear it kick
in as it hums with an even tone when it kicks on (a dozen or more times a
day).

The recirculating pump 'must' be working because we have hot water at
even the furthest fixtures in about ten or fifteen seconds.

Isn't there supposed to be a loop of plumbing connected to the
recirculating pump? So the pump you describe is in the main line
after the water heaters. There should be another line coming in at a
'T'.

A recirculating pump moves water in the hot water line to the fixture
(as would happen normally) but then it diverts that water in another
line to return it to the heater to be heated again (completing a
loop). It's this extra line (sometimes referred to as a 3rd line as
there are usually 2 lines already (H and C)) that makes installation
of a recirc. pump so expensive.

FWIW, I recently installed a Chili Pepper recirc. pump and love it.
No more guilt about letting the water run, or washing with cold
water. It's a pretty easy install as it uses the cold water line for
the return and he have pex tubing under the sink. It's a little loud,
but the noise could be suppressed with better padding.

Chris,
I think the transfer of heat would be *quicker* because of a greater
delta T in the water heater, but not less.

On Mar 23, 6:19*am, teabird wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:39*am, Aaron FIsher wrote:





On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is connected
to. *That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house. Sometimes
they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath that is
really far away form the hw heater.

Hi James,
You seem to understand what you're talking about. You make sense.

The only thing I didn't say (I didn't think it mattered until I read your
response above) is that the little black recirculating pump is far away
from any bathroom. It's in understory of the house right next to the two
hot water heaters in series. Nowhere near any particular bathroom.

There is only one recirculating pump (AFAIK) because I can hear it kick
in as it hums with an even tone when it kicks on (a dozen or more times a
day).

The recirculating pump 'must' be working because we have hot water at
even the furthest fixtures in about ten or fifteen seconds.

Isn't there supposed to be a loop of plumbing connected to the
recirculating pump? *So the pump you describe is in the main line
after the water heaters. *There should be another line coming in at a
'T'.

A recirculating pump moves water in the hot water line to the fixture
(as would happen normally) but then it diverts that water in another
line to return it to the heater to be heated again (completing a
loop). *It's this extra line (sometimes referred to as a 3rd line as
there are usually 2 lines already (H and C)) that makes installation
of a recirc. pump so expensive.

FWIW, I recently installed a Chili Pepper recirc. pump and love it.
No more guilt about letting the water run, or washing with cold
water. *It's a pretty easy install as it uses the cold water line for
the return and he have pex tubing under the sink. *It's a little loud,
but the noise could be suppressed with better padding.

Chris,
I think the transfer of heat would be *quicker* because of a greater
delta T in the water heater, but not less.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I prefer the 3 line solution. When you use the cold water line as a
return then you have to run the cold water a while to get it cold. So
it just switches the one you run.

On Mar 23, 8:17*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Mar 23, 6:19*am, teabird wrote:





On Mar 22, 11:39*am, Aaron FIsher wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:03:42 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
The recirc pump is to provide instant hw at the fixtures it is connected
to. *That may or may not be all the fixtures in the house. Sometimes
they only put recirc pumps on the master bath or in a bath that is
really far away form the hw heater.

Hi James,
You seem to understand what you're talking about. You make sense.

The only thing I didn't say (I didn't think it mattered until I read your
response above) is that the little black recirculating pump is far away
from any bathroom. It's in understory of the house right next to the two
hot water heaters in series. Nowhere near any particular bathroom.

There is only one recirculating pump (AFAIK) because I can hear it kick
in as it hums with an even tone when it kicks on (a dozen or more times a
day).

The recirculating pump 'must' be working because we have hot water at
even the furthest fixtures in about ten or fifteen seconds.

Isn't there supposed to be a loop of plumbing connected to the
recirculating pump? *So the pump you describe is in the main line
after the water heaters. *There should be another line coming in at a
'T'.

A recirculating pump moves water in the hot water line to the fixture
(as would happen normally) but then it diverts that water in another
line to return it to the heater to be heated again (completing a
loop). *It's this extra line (sometimes referred to as a 3rd line as
there are usually 2 lines already (H and C)) that makes installation
of a recirc. pump so expensive.

FWIW, I recently installed a Chili Pepper recirc. pump and love it.
No more guilt about letting the water run, or washing with cold
water. *It's a pretty easy install as it uses the cold water line for
the return and he have pex tubing under the sink. *It's a little loud,
but the noise could be suppressed with better padding.

Chris,
I think the transfer of heat would be *quicker* because of a greater
delta T in the water heater, but not less.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I prefer the 3 line solution. *When you use the cold water line as a
return then you have to run the cold water a while to get it cold. *So
it just switches the one you run.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Also depending on what else is on that cold water line, you could
easily wind up with that stale, tepid hot water coming out of the
kitchen
faucet. Not exactly what you'd want when drawing water for cooking,
making drink mixes, etc. In fact, if you get into a situation like
that,
you could wind up wasting more water. But, in the right application,
the pumps under the sink at the far end offer a solution when retrofit
would be expensive.

What really sucks is that I regulalry see new construction with $1mil
4,000 sq ft houses and they don't put in that extra line at build time.

On 3/22/2011 3:43 PM, Aaron FIsher wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:10:57 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:
I take it you do not have enough people in the house to be concerned
about running out of hot water? If not you may want to consider simply
turning the first one off. Otherwise your 90 deg setting is fine.

The only time we run out is when the teen is in the shower.

And, I suspect, it wouldn't matter how much hot water we had, it would be
used up until it's cold.

I don't think your setup is working properly. It would be difficult for
it to run out of hot water. How many gallon are the water heaters?