I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie

On 03/13/2011 11:58 AM, Alt.Home.Repair wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

If the pipe is pitched properly, it shouldn't freeze as there will never
be water in it save when it is actually raining. However is it legal to
dump downspout water into a storm sewer? You may be required to do
something else, like a dry well.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 3/13/2011 11:58 AM, Alt.Home.Repair wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie


Unless you live on a hill, if you get below frostline, you will end up
BELOW the street. If you were thinking of tying into the storm sewers,
most places call that illegal.

Not a fan of buried downspout drains- they always clog up eventually,
with leaves or dead animals or whatever. If you simply must do it, and
if your lot is sloped enough, you want a 'daylight drain' where the
pipes come out some place where you can run a roto-rooter back upstream
when needed. Whatever you do, make sure they can't back up or leak along
the foundation wall- the water will end up in the basement. Seen it over
and over- poorly sealed joint or pipe broken from frost heave, and a
musty smell in basement right below, or even a full-blown case of mold.

I'd try extra-long diverter pipes and long splash blocks first, even if
you have to pick them up every time you mow the grass. Maybe even those
roll-up things that unroll themselves when downspout gets full of water,
if anybody still sells those. Look hard at the yard landscaping- can you
alter the slope within about ten feet of the house? You want 8-10 inches
of foundation showing above grade line, and you never want to pile dirt
against unsealed foundation, but there is sometimes room to add some
slope so the water runs away from the house harmlessly.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:

On 3/13/2011 11:58 AM, Alt.Home.Repair wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie


Unless you live on a hill, if you get below frostline, you will end up
BELOW the street. If you were thinking of tying into the storm sewers,
most places call that illegal.

Not a fan of buried downspout drains- they always clog up eventually,

What he said-- I'd go with a paved swale, if it was really that
serious a problem. Chances are, just some creative landscaping
will divert the water into no problem for less work and better results
than an underground pipe.

Jim

On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:58:07 -0400, "Alt.Home.Repair"
wrote:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

After agreeing with aem, I had some second thoughts. If you go
from 4-6" gutters to an underground 'pipe' that is 12-15", then you
just need to bury it deep enough to pitch off towards the street. [you
need to check local ordinances to see if you can do that-- and if you
can dig over 1' deep on your lawn without a permit and survey]

I have one of those 20' long at the end of one of my garage gutters &
it has worked fine for 10yrs or so. I'm a few hours north of you.

That's the *only* way I'd try to divert gutters underground.

Jim

On Mar 13, 1:00*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:58:07 -0400, "Alt.Home.Repair"

wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

After agreeing with aem, I had some second thoughts. * * *If you go
from 4-6" gutters to an underground 'pipe' that is 12-15", then you
just need to bury it deep enough to pitch off towards the street. [you
need to check local ordinances to see if you can do that-- and if you
can dig over 1' deep on your lawn without a permit and survey]

I have one of those 20' long at the end of one of my garage gutters &
it has worked fine for 10yrs or so. * I'm a few hours north of you.

That's the *only* way I'd try to divert gutters underground. * *

Jim

4 inch smooth drain lines work fine if going to daylight, use 2 22
degree elbows at house so downspout to line isnt a restriction.

avoid the black plastic corrugated lines, the bumbs accumulate debris.

leave easy access and flush lines yearly with a garden hose. if
necessary push garden hose thru underground line.

provided theres enough slope you dont need the line below the frost
line.

if your local government requires a dry well it will clog with debris
eventually run a overflow line to street think daylight

"Alt.Home.Repair" wrote in
:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter
down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so
we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie

Here in North Jersey there are plenty of homes with sump pumps that
discharge through a 3-4" PVC pipe pitched just enough to reach in a
straight line to the curb. Usually buried just beneath the landscaping.
Must be legal, at least here in the country of the high priests of
administratium.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mar 13, 11:58*am, "Alt.Home.Repair" wrote:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

I'm also on LI. Most municipalities in our neck of the woods prohibit
dumping of rain water roof runoff into the street. The Town of North
Hempstead, for one, requires building permit applications to show the
runoff volume calculations on the drawings and require the
installation of a drywell that can accept that amount of runoff.

Depending on where you are, what you are proposing might or might not
be a problem for you, but I have noticed that the water district and
roads departments around here have become more aware of such things
and won't have a problem telling you to fix the situation.

R

bob haller wrote:
-snip-

4 inch smooth drain lines work fine if going to daylight, use 2 22
degree elbows at house so downspout to line isnt a restriction.

avoid the black plastic corrugated lines, the bumbs accumulate debris.

leave easy access and flush lines yearly with a garden hose. if
necessary push garden hose thru underground line.

provided theres enough slope you dont need the line below the frost
line.


4" will work fine in the summer. But it will freeze solid during the
first slow thaw. My downspouts freeze if it is cold enough and sunny
enough. A 4" in the ground doesn't have a chance.

Jim

On Mar 13, 12:48*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Mar 13, 11:58*am, "Alt.Home.Repair" wrote

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?


Some of the answer depends on slope. We have three buried drains at
our two year old house: one installed by gutter contractor and the
others by me. Installation method and pipe size depend on the length
of the run.

The gutter contractor basically routed one under a sidewalk. It is
about 10' long, it is buried about 18" deep and comes back up to the
surface with a pop-up. it uses standard 4" PVC drain pipe (lighter
than residential plumbing). On the end with the popup, the contractor
dug out about a 2' radius around and beneath the elbow (beneath the
popup). This area was filled with clean, 1" and larger gravel, and he
drilled three 3/8" holes in the bottom of the pipe. The grade between
the drain entry and popup end is very slight but it seems to work
well. The only issue has been getting grass growing around the popup
and I finally ringed the fitting with slab sandstone and seeded around
and between the stones. For information, we live in SE Kansas where
winter sub-freezing is common and sub-zero does happen. We also live
in a small, rural community without municipal drain restrictions.

The north side of our lot drops 7 feet in about 80 feet so we fought
rutting. We had problems getting grass going near the house so I
buried the two drains on that side of the house. Both are about 20'
long and they slope about 12" which provides good flow. Each of these
drains serve 4" x 3" downspouts. Since I had to pull a travel trailer
across one run, I used heavier 4" residential PVC. The runs couldn't
be more simple. At the downspout I used a standard 4" coupler which
allows the pipe to enter easily. At the foundation I buried about 12"
- 15" deep and installed an elbow, and then dug the trench to allow
the 18" slope (not a lot of digging because of the slope). With this
slope, I have no freezing concerns and I can easily poke a hose in the
open end if it ever gets plugged up (it hasn't yet). Also, on the
open end, I buried a standard concrete downspout slash block.... the
kind that is open on one end and ridged at the other end. I buried i
just below the pipe outlet WITH THE RIDGE FARTHEST FROM THE OUTLET.
This allows water to flow out of the pipe and sheet around the ridge,
reducing erosion. Yes you will have water standing in the splash
block but it evaporates. I also buried the splash block so the top is
at grade and I can drive the mower across it without problem. If you
have longer runs, you might want to consider larger pipe.

Worked for me. Your case might be different. And yes it does rain
here. We get 40+" per year and it is not unheard of to get 10% of
that in 1-2 hours of spring or fall rain.

RonB

On Mar 13, 1:38*pm, RonB wrote:


RonB

Correction; ".....to allow the 12" slope..."

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Alt.Home.Repair" wrote in
:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter
down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so
we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie

Here in North Jersey there are plenty of homes with sump pumps that
discharge through a 3-4" PVC pipe pitched just enough to reach in a
straight line to the curb. Usually buried just beneath the landscaping.
Must be legal, at least here in the country of the high priests of
administratium.

My guess is that in highly developed areas like Hempstead, LI they've
already seen the storm drain system (probably 50yrs old) overflow. I know
we're subject to the same sorts of restrictions near Wash. DC because a
neighbor was forced to dig a drywell and disconnect the line he had run to
the street to handle roof runoff.

We live in an area that used to be a natural spring and is the lowest
elevation for at least half a mile. The park behind us turns into a lake
during the recent three (alleged) 100 year storms we've had and we've had to
install two sump pumps to handle the really serious multi-inch per day rain.
The pumps just run and run because the water pours in from the streets
uphill from us. I've seen runoff accumulate so quickly that it rose to the
level of car hoods after a really profound deluge (quite a sight to see the
main road running like a river!). That actually doesn't cause the severe
flooding. It's once that stuff has poured in the storm drains that the
trouble begins.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in
:

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Alt.Home.Repair" wrote in
:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the
gutter down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY
so we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost
line?

Bernie

Here in North Jersey there are plenty of homes with sump pumps that
discharge through a 3-4" PVC pipe pitched just enough to reach in a
straight line to the curb. Usually buried just beneath the
landscaping. Must be legal, at least here in the country of the high
priests of administratium.

My guess is that in highly developed areas like Hempstead, LI they've
already seen the storm drain system (probably 50yrs old) overflow. I
know we're subject to the same sorts of restrictions near Wash. DC
because a neighbor was forced to dig a drywell and disconnect the line
he had run to the street to handle roof runoff.

We live in an area that used to be a natural spring and is the lowest
elevation for at least half a mile. The park behind us turns into a
lake during the recent three (alleged) 100 year storms we've had and
we've had to install two sump pumps to handle the really serious
multi-inch per day rain. The pumps just run and run because the water
pours in from the streets uphill from us. I've seen runoff accumulate
so quickly that it rose to the level of car hoods after a really
profound deluge (quite a sight to see the main road running like a
river!). That actually doesn't cause the severe flooding. It's once
that stuff has poured in the storm drains that the trouble begins.

--
Bobby G.

We left Floral Park NY and moved closer to my daughter in Jersey.
Believe me, Fair Lawn NJ is just as built-up as Floral Park. Here the
problem is also high ground water levels, since there is (in a figure of
speech) only 7/32" of soil on top of the bedrock, and the groundwater
flows over that into your basement. Somehow we are lucky and don't need
a sump pump, but we did install French drains and a "dry well" when we
remodeled 10 years ago.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mar 13, 7:25*pm, Han wrote:
"Robert Green" wrote :





"Han" wrote in message
...
"Alt.Home.Repair" wrote in
:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the
gutter down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY
so we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost
line?

Bernie

Here in North Jersey there are plenty of homes with sump pumps that
discharge through a 3-4" PVC pipe pitched just enough to reach in a
straight line to the curb. *Usually buried just beneath the
landscaping. Must be legal, at least here in the country of the high
priests of administratium.

My guess is that in highly developed areas like Hempstead, LI they've
already seen the storm drain system (probably 50yrs old) overflow. *I
know we're subject to the same sorts of restrictions near Wash. DC
because a neighbor was forced to dig a drywell and disconnect the line
he had run to the street to handle roof runoff.

We live in an area that used to be a natural spring and is the lowest
elevation for at least half a mile. *The park behind us turns into a
lake during the recent three (alleged) 100 year storms we've had and
we've had to install two sump pumps to handle the really serious
multi-inch per day rain. The pumps just run and run because the water
pours in from the streets uphill from us. *I've seen runoff accumulate
so quickly that it rose to the level of car hoods after a really
profound deluge (quite a sight to see the main road running like a
river!). That actually doesn't cause the severe flooding. *It's once
that stuff has poured in the storm drains that the trouble begins.

--
Bobby G.

We left Floral Park NY and moved closer to my daughter in Jersey. *
Believe me, Fair Lawn NJ is just as built-up as Floral Park. *Here the
problem is also high ground water levels, since there is (in a figure of
speech) only 7/32" of soil on top of the bedrock, and the groundwater
flows over that into your basement. *Somehow we are lucky and don't need
a sump pump, but we did install French drains and a "dry well" when we
remodeled 10 years ago.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When we lived in central NJ, in Little SIlver, about 1/2 mile from
the NJ Bay, we could tell when there was an exceptionally high tide
because the underground water table would rise since it could not run
off as rapidly. Our sump pump ran almost continually. Next town
over, Fair haven was equally at risk. Up in Fair Lanwn, there is no
Atlantic Ocean effects, just rivers that collect surface runoff and
flood.

There is one thing that every place we have lived has in common.
There is a 100-year rain storm at least once every 10 years. I have
never figured that one out.

I live on a hill. My front yard is pitched at about 15 deg. That's the cause
of the errosion. On one side of the house I have room to move the water to
another location and either dump it on the lawn or into a dry well. The
other side there is much less space to the neighbor and I would not be able
to sink a drywell without part of it being in his yard.

Bernie

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 3/13/2011 11:58 AM, Alt.Home.Repair wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter
down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we
do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

Bernie


Unless you live on a hill, if you get below frostline, you will end up
BELOW the street. If you were thinking of tying into the storm sewers,
most places call that illegal.

Not a fan of buried downspout drains- they always clog up eventually, with
leaves or dead animals or whatever. If you simply must do it, and if your
lot is sloped enough, you want a 'daylight drain' where the pipes come out
some place where you can run a roto-rooter back upstream when needed.
Whatever you do, make sure they can't back up or leak along the foundation
wall- the water will end up in the basement. Seen it over and over- poorly
sealed joint or pipe broken from frost heave, and a musty smell in
basement right below, or even a full-blown case of mold.

I'd try extra-long diverter pipes and long splash blocks first, even if
you have to pick them up every time you mow the grass. Maybe even those
roll-up things that unroll themselves when downspout gets full of water,
if anybody still sells those. Look hard at the yard landscaping- can you
alter the slope within about ten feet of the house? You want 8-10 inches
of foundation showing above grade line, and you never want to pile dirt
against unsealed foundation, but there is sometimes room to add some slope
so the water runs away from the house harmlessly.

--
aem sends...

I have plenty of slope so there shouldn't be any standing water in the line.
The current plan is to have pop up emitters at the street for discharge. If
that get's nixed then I'll have them pop up in the yard some where.

Bernie

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 1:00 pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:58:07 -0400, "Alt.Home.Repair"

wrote:
I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter
down
spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so we
do
freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

After agreeing with aem, I had some second thoughts. If you go
from 4-6" gutters to an underground 'pipe' that is 12-15", then you
just need to bury it deep enough to pitch off towards the street. [you
need to check local ordinances to see if you can do that-- and if you
can dig over 1' deep on your lawn without a permit and survey]

I have one of those 20' long at the end of one of my garage gutters &
it has worked fine for 10yrs or so. I'm a few hours north of you.

That's the *only* way I'd try to divert gutters underground.

Jim

4 inch smooth drain lines work fine if going to daylight, use 2 22
degree elbows at house so downspout to line isnt a restriction.

avoid the black plastic corrugated lines, the bumbs accumulate debris.

leave easy access and flush lines yearly with a garden hose. if
necessary push garden hose thru underground line.

provided theres enough slope you dont need the line below the frost
line.

if your local government requires a dry well it will clog with debris
eventually run a overflow line to street think daylight

"Bernie Hunt" wrote:

I have plenty of slope so there shouldn't be any standing water in the line.
The current plan is to have pop up emitters at the street for discharge. If
that get's nixed then I'll have them pop up in the yard some where.

You don't need standing water to freeze.

My downspouts are at 90degrees. If it is below zero and sunny, the
slow drips that come off the south side of the roof freeze on the way
down. The 4" pipe freezes solid in a day or two. [and it
happens once or twice most winters where I live. Maybe not so
often where you are-- but how bad will it be when it does happen to
you?]

That's why you want to use a bigger pipe. It will allow for those
slow drips for an extended period to *not* clog the pipe. The
tiniest bit of flow will clear the ice out when things warm up.

Jim

Bernie,

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the gutter
down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.
How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY so
we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost line?

I live in Washington state, so I don't know the particulars relating to
drain lines and frost depth. Our frost depth is only about 12", though
realistically it has never been cold enough, long enough, here for me to
see that in practice.

Our property is on a hill, but because of the topography there are some
areas (like the driveway in front of our garage) where natural slope for
drainage is not an option. So, I installed three runs of solid 4" PVC
drain lines. One is dedicated solely to our driveway, one picks up the
gutters from our garage and back of the house, and the third picks up the
gutters on the side and front of our house.

The first key issue is to ensure wherever the drain exits (to daylight in
our case) is on your own property. You don't want to dump all the water
from your roof into your neighbors yard!

As for depth, I started at the high spot and maintained a 1/4" per foot
slope till I reached daylight on the side of the hill. At the shallowest
spot at the top of the hill I'm maybe 12" down, but in some places I had to
dig down three feet and tunnel under roots and around massive boulders to
maintain the proper slope.

We installed our drainage system about 4-5 years ago and have not had any
issues with clogs. I have grates over the outlets to prevent mice and
other critters from nesting in the pipes, and screens/filters on the
gutters to keep leaves and other debris from entering the system. Some
pine needles work their way through, but so far no issues.

Anthony

On Mar 14, 11:18*am, "Bernie Hunt" wrote:

I'm in Garden City so I have both village and town to keep happy. Right now
the village is extremely concerned over ground water contamination. The last
time I asked the village engineering department, they wanted me to dump the
water into the storm drains rather than into the ground. I'm heading down
there to get some other permit information, I'll ask them again about where
I can dump the rain water.

The Incorporated Village of Garden City's code is available online:
http://www.ecode360.com/?custId=GA0634
as is the Town of Hempstead's:
http://ecode360.com/?custId=HE0972

R

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in
:

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Alt.Home.Repair" wrote in
:

I'm going to install plastic piping to route the water from the
gutter down spouts out to the street, to stop errosion problems.

How deep do I need to bury these pipes? I live on Long Island in NY
so we do freeze in the winter. Do I need to get below the frost
line?

Bernie

Here in North Jersey there are plenty of homes with sump pumps that
discharge through a 3-4" PVC pipe pitched just enough to reach in a
straight line to the curb. Usually buried just beneath the
landscaping. Must be legal, at least here in the country of the high
priests of administratium.

My guess is that in highly developed areas like Hempstead, LI they've
already seen the storm drain system (probably 50yrs old) overflow. I
know we're subject to the same sorts of restrictions near Wash. DC
because a neighbor was forced to dig a drywell and disconnect the line
he had run to the street to handle roof runoff.

We live in an area that used to be a natural spring and is the lowest
elevation for at least half a mile. The park behind us turns into a
lake during the recent three (alleged) 100 year storms we've had and
we've had to install two sump pumps to handle the really serious
multi-inch per day rain. The pumps just run and run because the water
pours in from the streets uphill from us. I've seen runoff accumulate
so quickly that it rose to the level of car hoods after a really
profound deluge (quite a sight to see the main road running like a
river!). That actually doesn't cause the severe flooding. It's once
that stuff has poured in the storm drains that the trouble begins.

--
Bobby G.

We left Floral Park NY and moved closer to my daughter in Jersey.
Believe me, Fair Lawn NJ is just as built-up as Floral Park. Here the
problem is also high ground water levels, since there is (in a figure of
speech) only 7/32" of soil on top of the bedrock, and the groundwater
flows over that into your basement. Somehow we are lucky and don't need
a sump pump, but we did install French drains and a "dry well" when we
remodeled 10 years ago.

Your post reminds me of something a comedian once said about people with
drug habits: "If you still have enough money left to afford the Betty Ford
Clinic, then you DON'T have a drug problem!" If you don't need sump pumps,
(or two!) consider yourself among the blessed! (-:

I spent a lot of effort one summer digging a dry well. AFAIK, it's *never*
been dry. )-: It was an historical waste of effort, at least in this
location. Like the Tokyo Electric Power Company I've sadly learned that it
takes a lot of planning to keep everything going when Mother Nature gets
really angry. One 100 year storm knocked out the electric power for 4 days
so I got a generator. The next one occurred when I was out of town and no
one was there to start the generator and a hurricane passed nearby. Now
I've got two 70Ah wheelchair batteries powering a battery backed sump pump
and I'm tempted to get a second one to back up the first.

--
Bobby G.