hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

On Mar 11, 11:48*am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It is
the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the surge
suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

..
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

"marco polo" wrote in message
...
I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.


Your computer will be protected from surges the same with the supressor off
or on. Maybe slightly beter with it off.

On Mar 11, 12:33*pm, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:
"marco polo" wrote in message

...

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

Your computer will be protected from surges the same with the supressor off
or on. * Maybe slightly beter with it off.

How do you turn the surge protector off without turning off all
equipment that is downstream from the protector?. I would leave it on
and shut everything downstream off.

On Mar 11, 12:17*pm, marco polo wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

I've had my desktop connected to the switched on/off side of my surge
protector for years, and have using hibernation routinely as well. I
always turn off the surge protector power switch after hibernating the
desktop, sometimes for more than a day. I'd estimate that no more than
a few times a year the system does not "wake up" properly and requires a
restart.

On Mar 11, 2:28*pm, Peter wrote:
On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:



On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco *wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ibernation-fre...

I've had my desktop connected to the switched on/off side of my surge
protector for years, and have using hibernation routinely as well. *I
always turn off the surge protector power switch after hibernating the
desktop, sometimes for more than a day. *I'd estimate that no more than
a few times a year the system does not "wake up" properly and requires a
restart.

Only reporting the source...you do as you like, of course.

Peter wrote:
On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions


I've had my desktop connected to the switched on/off side of my surge
protector for years, and have using hibernation routinely as well. I
always turn off the surge protector power switch after hibernating the
desktop, sometimes for more than a day. I'd estimate that no more than a
few times a year the system does not "wake up" properly and requires a
restart.
Hmm,
Is the BIOS on your desktop up-to-date?

In ,
Bob Villa typed:
: On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco polo wrote:
:: .
:: Hibernation, according to MS:
:: saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed
:: to Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I
:: suppose.
::
:: I haven't "shut down" 1st.
:: I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
:: and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].
::
:: One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
:: and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
:: So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows
:: 7].
::
:: I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
:: with the Suppressor off.
::
:: thanks
:: mark
:
: MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.
:
:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

Where does that link say that? Inwhich link it offers? All I see is:
"
Hibernation is a power-saving state designed primarily for laptops. While
sleep puts your work and settings in memory and draws a small amount of
power, hibernation puts your open documents and programs on your hard disk,
and then turns off your computer. Of all the power-saving states in Windows,
hibernation uses the least amount of power. On a laptop, use hibernation
when you know that you won't use your laptop for an extended period and
won't have an opportunity to charge the battery during that time.

"

They don't say so, but that's the same state as if you did a Shut Down.
Things like "Wake from LAN", "wake from USB device", etc, are still
possible. As long as the PC has power, those things are possible. To
eliminate those possibilities, you must actually remove power from the PC
plug, and can be done while a machine is IN hibernation. Everything it needs
to come out of hibernation is stored in the registry and on-disk. Nothing
resides in memory that's needed with Hibernation. You can kill the power
from the surge protector and nothing untoward wll happen; I do it all the
time when I have several windows open and things in process. When I come
back, it goes to the hard drive and resets everything back exactly as it was
when it Hibernated (and power was removed from the PC if that occurred).
Just be certain Hibernation is complete before you kill power. And assuming
you have sufficient space allocated to Hibernate too.



HTH,



Twayne`

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:36:56 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

In ,
Bob Villa typed:
: On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco polo wrote:
:: .
:: Hibernation, according to MS:
:: saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed
:: to Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I
:: suppose.
::
:: I haven't "shut down" 1st.
:: I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
:: and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].
::
:: One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
:: and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
:: So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows
:: 7].
::
:: I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
:: with the Suppressor off.
::
:: thanks
:: mark
:
: MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.
:
:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

Where does that link say that? Inwhich link it offers? All I see is:

That's my question too.
"
Hibernation is a power-saving state designed primarily for laptops. While

Maybe so, but it works great for desktops. If you have multiple
programs open and running, you don't have to go start them again. It
even restarts cmd .bat files that were running. It picks up just
where you left off.

Many people will have to actually close windows every 3 or 4 days,
some earlier, some later, but I've been going about 4 days lately.

Once in a while, you have to actually close windows and restart it
because the MS Tuesday downloads usually need you to close windows to
finish installing them, and other software may require that too.
Also, If you start to run out of RAM, you'll have to close. Some
programs still don't fully release the ram they use and after a few
days, you can run out. Or if the computer slows down for no
identifeied reason, restarting will often get it back to the regular
speed.

I've always been able to restart from Hibernate in winxp, but have on
occasion in win98 had problems restarting from Standby. Since I
alwway save my work, I can turn the computer off while in Standby and
I've lost no work, but I have to restart all the programs. (And the
10 year old, 4 versions old version of Agent I use only remembers that
one ng was open. If I used version 6, it would remember all of them
even with a cold start)

I did have to buy a newer video card for 20 or 30 dollars to get
Standby and Hibernate to work, but the one I had was about 10 years
old.

sleep puts your work and settings in memory and draws a small amount of
power,

Sleep, or Standby, has the disadvantage that if the computer gets
unplugged, or if a laptop battery runs down, everything that was in
memory is forgotten. This would inslude a modiefied file that hasn't
been saved. Or a bat file that was running.

hibernation puts your open documents and programs on your hard disk,
and then turns off your computer. Of all the power-saving states in Windows,
hibernation uses the least amount of power.

It uses none, afaik, except the battery that powers the clock and
retains values in the BIOS, adnd you're right, the power needed to let
wake-from work, but that's used even when the computer is off, unless
maybe one disables wake from.

On a laptop, use hibernation
when you know that you won't use your laptop for an extended period and
won't have an opportunity to charge the battery during that time.

"

They don't say so, but that's the same state as if you did a Shut Down.
Things like "Wake from LAN", "wake from USB device", etc, are still
possible. As long as the PC has power, those things are possible. To
eliminate those possibilities, you must actually remove power from the PC
plug, and can be done while a machine is IN hibernation. Everything it needs
to come out of hibernation is stored in the registry and on-disk. Nothing
resides in memory that's needed with Hibernation. You can kill the power
from the surge protector and nothing untoward wll happen; I do it all the
time when I have several windows open and things in process. When I come
back, it goes to the hard drive and resets everything back exactly as it was
when it Hibernated (and power was removed from the PC if that occurred).
Just be certain Hibernation is complete before you kill power. And assuming
you have sufficient space allocated to Hibernate too.

I had hibernate as far back as win 3.1, I think it was, but it had a
different name and came from a 3rd party. I bought it at a hamfest
but didn't, couldn't really use it because it took so long to copy my
ram to the harddrive and back. Later MS bought it from the author
(or maybe stole it and paid him something when he sued, who knows?)


HTH,



Twayne`

On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

Can you point me a little closer to where it says that?

"Tony Miklos" wrote
MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions

Can you point me a little closer to where it says that?

I don't see that, but they do use some power. Hybrid sleep though, allows
the power to be cut.

Of all the power-saving states in Windows, hibernation uses the least amount
of power. On a laptop, use hibernation when you know that you won't use your
laptop for an extended period and won't have an opportunity to charge the
battery during that time.

Hybrid sleep is designed primarily for desktop computers. Hybrid sleep is a
combination of sleep and hibernate-it puts any open documents and programs
in memory and on your hard disk, and then puts your computer into a
low-power state so that you can quickly resume your work. That way, if a
power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work from your hard disk.
When hybrid sleep is turned on, putting your computer into sleep
automatically puts your computer into hybrid sleep. Hybrid sleep is
typically turned on by default on desktop computers.

On Mar 11, 7:36*pm, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:



On Mar 11, 12:17 pm, marco *wrote:
.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ibernation-fre...

Can you point me a little closer to where it says that?

Where does it say..."you can then turn your power strip off" or "pull
the plug". If it doesn't say...then it's not recommended. It does say,
"That way, if a power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work
from your hard disk".

On Mar 11, 2:06*pm, Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:17*pm, marco polo wrote:





.
Hibernation, according to MS:
saves your session, and shuts off the computer; as opposed to
Not saving your session, and shutting off computer, I suppose.

I haven't "shut down" 1st.
I have been putting my computer into Hibernation,
and turning off the Surge protector [for weeks now].

One way or the other, the computer is shut off,
and when both are turned on, I have my restored programs.
So, Hibernation does not need power [at least with Windows 7].

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

thanks
mark

MS doesn't recommend turning off the power to the PC.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...nation-fre...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Where in that MSFT link does it say that? I don't see it.

marco polo wrote:

I just want to know if the computer is ok [protected]
with the Suppressor off.

It's at least as well protected with the switched turned off as with
the switch turned on because the surge protection components are still
connected to the AC lines.

But if a storm is pending or you'll be leaving your home, unplug
everything connected to the computer, even the monitor, printer,
modem, and TV cable.

Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It is
the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the surge
suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power consumption
difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero; they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.

On Mar 11, 4:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It is
the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the surge
suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power consumption
difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero; they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My vote for the best answer. Also, even if the power was completely
disconnected
via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still
arc across some wiring point in the PC.

Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on
it's surge
protection for surges originating on the AC lines. As long as it's
connected
the MOVs are still there
between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. The
surge
protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED indicators.

wrote:
On Mar 11, 4:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all
off. That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It
is the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the
surge suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes
power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power
consumption difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero;
they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by
Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply
does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case
the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch
on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My vote for the best answer. Also, even if the power was completely
disconnected
via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still
arc across some wiring point in the PC.

Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on
it's surge
protection for surges originating on the AC lines. As long as it's
connected
the MOVs are still there
between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. The
surge
protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED
indicators.

You bring up another point: MOVs. MOVs are like reverse fuses - they are
normally open until they see a surge, then they short the surge to ground.
Problem is, like fuses, they're only good once (or maybe a few times). Then
they no longer work and the strip passes the surge straight on through.

Surge protection strips that use sophisticated electronics continue to work,
no matter how many surges they encounter.

So how can you tell which you have? If the strip cost in the neighborhood of
five bucks, it's the (almost) worthless MOV kind. If it cost $50.00 or more,
it's probably the electronic kind.

An all-round better solution is a "Whole-House" surge protector. These cost
$50-75 and attach at the circuit breaker box (if your hand fits a
screwdriver, you can install one). Moreover, they have little light(s) to
tell you they are working.

On Mar 12, 4:06*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 11, 4:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all
off. That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It
is the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the
surge suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes
power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power
consumption difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero;
they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by
Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply
does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case
the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch
on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My vote for the best answer. * Also, even if the power was completely
disconnected
via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still
arc across some wiring point in the PC.

Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on
it's surge
protection for surges originating on the AC lines. *As long as it's
connected
the MOVs are still there
between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. *The
surge
protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED
indicators.

You bring up another point: MOVs. MOVs are like reverse fuses - they are
normally open until they see a surge, then they short the surge to ground..
Problem is, like fuses, they're only good once (or maybe a few times). Then
they no longer work and the strip passes the surge straight on through.

Surge protection strips that use sophisticated electronics continue to work,
no matter how many surges they encounter.

So how can you tell which you have? If the strip cost in the neighborhood of
five bucks, it's the (almost) worthless MOV kind. If it cost $50.00 or more,
it's probably the electronic kind.

An all-round better solution is a "Whole-House" surge protector. These cost
$50-75 and attach at the circuit breaker box (if your hand fits a
screwdriver, you can install one). Moreover, they have little light(s) to
tell you they are working.

"Whole-House" is definitely not the answer. A UPS with surge
suppression would be a better one.
Any high-current device switching on or off and going through a common
conduit or routed near to the supply circuit of a PC would induce a
surge into that circuit. Making "Whole-House" suppression pointless.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:06:42 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mar 11, 4:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all
off. That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It
is the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the
surge suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes
power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power
consumption difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero;
they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by
Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply
does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case
the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch
on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My vote for the best answer. Also, even if the power was completely
disconnected
via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still
arc across some wiring point in the PC.

Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on
it's surge
protection for surges originating on the AC lines. As long as it's
connected
the MOVs are still there
between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. The
surge
protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED
indicators.

You bring up another point: MOVs. MOVs are like reverse fuses - they are
normally open until they see a surge, then they short the surge to ground.
Problem is, like fuses, they're only good once (or maybe a few times). Then
they no longer work and the strip passes the surge straight on through.

Surge protection strips that use sophisticated electronics continue to work,
no matter how many surges they encounter.

So how can you tell which you have? If the strip cost in the neighborhood of
five bucks, it's the (almost) worthless MOV kind. If it cost $50.00 or more,
it's probably the electronic kind.

An all-round better solution is a "Whole-House" surge protector. These cost
$50-75 and attach at the circuit breaker box

I don't disagree with you, but for 50 to 75, you get an MOV kind that
you calleed almost worthless. The ones I've seen do have a LED that
stops being lit when the protector has been zapped.

Actually, I got one of those for about 26 or 36 dollars and the next
one up was an Intermatic for 130 or 160. The picture and the
description said it had 3 LED's iirc, green ones for each leg and a
red one that glowed when one of the legs had been zapped. Sounded
great, but a comment said that when the guy received it, it only had
one LED, and a few days later, I saw ads for that one. I tried to buy
it in person at an electrical supply house, but they didn't have it so
I just bought the cheap one. I don't know that I ever have such
surges and if I ever do, I'll decide what to replace it with if it
blows.

(if your hand fits a
screwdriver, you can install one).

And you can keep your other hand off the bus bar.

Moreover, they have little light(s) to
tell you they are working.

On Mar 12, 6:06*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 11, 4:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:48 am, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all
off. That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Hibernation is not turning it off and you need power to the PC. It
is the lowest power setting though. If you want to turn off the
surge suppressor your will need to "shut-down".

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes
power in
exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power
consumption difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero;
they are identical in
this regard.

Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by
Hibernation, does
not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply
does
maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case
the
battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.

You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch
on the
computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My vote for the best answer. * Also, even if the power was completely
disconnected
via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still
arc across some wiring point in the PC.

Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on
it's surge
protection for surges originating on the AC lines. *As long as it's
connected
the MOVs are still there
between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. *The
surge
protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED
indicators.

You bring up another point: MOVs. MOVs are like reverse fuses - they are
normally open until they see a surge, then they short the surge to ground..
Problem is, like fuses, they're only good once (or maybe a few times). Then
they no longer work and the strip passes the surge straight on through.

Surge protection strips that use sophisticated electronics continue to work,
no matter how many surges they encounter.

Exactly what would that "sophisticated electronics" be? AFAIK, most
surge
protectors use MOVs because they are the device best suited to handle
surges.



So how can you tell which you have? If the strip cost in the neighborhood of
five bucks, it's the (almost) worthless MOV kind. If it cost $50.00 or more,
it's probably the electronic kind.

I can show you surge protectors from major manufacturers that cost
hundreds
of dollars that use MOVs.




An all-round better solution is a "Whole-House" surge protector. These cost
$50-75 and attach at the circuit breaker box (if your hand fits a
screwdriver, you can install one). Moreover, they have little light(s) to
tell you they are working.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And guess what they use? MOVs

On 3/11/2011 12:48 PM, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The safest way is to unplug the PC and every thing plugged into the PC,
including monitor, speakers, cable, phone line....... although that
could be a real pain in the ass. Can be made a little easier by not
just turning off your multi outlet gizmo, but unplugging it also.

Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/11/2011 12:48 PM, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The safest way is to unplug the PC and every thing plugged into the PC,
including monitor, speakers, cable, phone line....... although that
could be a real pain in the ass. Can be made a little easier by not just
turning off your multi outlet gizmo, but unplugging it alsHmmm,
Hmm,
What is all this talk? In 40 years our electric power outage total time
was may be ~ half an hour? And nothing in the house got damaged by
instability of supplied electricity. And all our utility is undergorund.
Nothing hangsoverhead. If something goes, there is insurance and it's
good excuse to upgrade for a newer, better(?) stuff.

On Mar 12, 2:35*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/11/2011 12:48 PM, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The safest way is to unplug the PC and every thing plugged into the PC,
including monitor, speakers, cable, phone line....... although that
could be a real pain in the ass. Can be made a little easier by not just
turning off your multi outlet gizmo, but unplugging it alsHmmm,

Hmm,
What is all this talk? In 40 years our electric power outage total time
was may be ~ half an hour?

In my experience, that's quite exceptional reliability. Here in NJ,
it's more like half an hour every 5 years or so. Maybe one of those
of close to half hour duration and several a year where power goes
out for a few seconds to less than a minute.


*And nothing in the house got damaged by
instability of supplied electricity. And all our utility is undergorund.
Nothing hangsoverhead.

Having utilities underground eliminates lightning strikes which are
a real problem in the many areas that have utility poles. IT also
depends where you are. Florida and California are very different
in terms of lightning strikes per year.


If something goes, there is insurance and it's
good excuse to upgrade for a newer, better(?) stuff.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Who konws if the surge will take out the 15 year old stereo or the new
$1000 TV? I don't know about you, but I'd rather pay $100 for a whole
house surge protector than try to prove what caused a 2 year old
$1000
TV to fail. And then, typical homeowner's policy here today has a
$500
or $1000 deductible. Plus, put in a claim for that TV, get $500 and
then
you may see your rate go up $100 a year.

I had a Tivo hit by lightning on the phone line about 5 years ago. It
was
not connected to a plug-in surge protector and the modem got blown
out. I was lucky as Tivo had a flat fee repair/swap of $100.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:48:45 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:


In my experience, that's quite exceptional reliability. Here in NJ,
it's more like half an hour every 5 years or so. Maybe one of those
of close to half hour duration and several a year where power goes
out for a few seconds to less than a minute.

I forgot about those. We have loads of those too that last only one
to 60 seconds. I can tell how long they lasted by which things of
five things lost the time and which didn't.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:35:08 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:



Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/11/2011 12:48 PM, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The safest way is to unplug the PC and every thing plugged into the PC,
including monitor, speakers, cable, phone line....... although that
could be a real pain in the ass. Can be made a little easier by not just
turning off your multi outlet gizmo, but unplugging it alsHmmm,
Hmm,
What is all this talk? In 40 years our electric power outage total time
was may be ~ half an hour? And nothing in the house got damaged by
instability of supplied electricity. And all our utility is underground.

My utilities are underground too, but I still have a couple outages a
year, far more than NYC where iirc there was only one in 12 years, one
of the two big ones.

Sometimes transformers cause problems. I don't know what other causes
there have been.

Of course in Japan today, 8 million people don't have electricity.

Nothing hangsoverhead. If something goes, there is insurance and it's
good excuse to upgrade for a newer, better(?) stuff.

On 3/12/2011 2:35 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


Tony Miklos wrote:
On 3/11/2011 12:48 PM, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The safest way is to unplug the PC and every thing plugged into the PC,
including monitor, speakers, cable, phone line....... although that
could be a real pain in the ass. Can be made a little easier by not just
turning off your multi outlet gizmo, but unplugging it alsHmmm,
Hmm,
What is all this talk? In 40 years our electric power outage total time
was may be ~ half an hour? And nothing in the house got damaged by
instability of supplied electricity. And all our utility is undergorund.
Nothing hangsoverhead. If something goes, there is insurance and it's
good excuse to upgrade for a newer, better(?) stuff.

What I said is not what I would do. It's way to much hassle. I just
said that it is the best way to avoid surge from hurting the PC and
anything attached to it.

On Mar 11, 1:48*pm, marco polo wrote:
hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

Turning them off doesn't do much for lightning/surge suppression if
anything. Ive never lost a 'puter to lightning but I have lost a TV
and several piece of test equipment I left plugged into my work
bench..... They were turned off .
As an electronics repairman over the years I have repaired many
lightning damaged devices where all I had to do was replace the MOV.
While I cant say with absolute certainty that this protected the
device as I also have may crispy fried circuit s that had lightning
protection I would say that the evidence I have seen leans in that
direction.

Jimmie

On 3/11/2011 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:48:35 -0800 (PST), marco polo
wrote:

hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The most important thing is to be sure all the inputs to your system
and the house are protected. You need phone line and TV cable
protection too and be sure it is using the same ground point as the
electrical service protection (panel protector). Those surge strips
may make you feel good but if you are not stopping most of the
problems before they get in your house you are not really doing much.

I'd add battery back up. I have it on all my computers. You can buy
cheap units that will keep power for several minutes in case of a power
outage to allow proper shut down.

Also with surge strips, a surge may knock them out and they will not
provide protection for the next surge.

Frank wrote:
On 3/11/2011 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:48:35 -0800 (PST), marco polo
wrote:

hi all,

If I turn my computer off at night [hibernation]
should the Surge Protector remain on,
or can I turn it off also?
Can a surge/spike hurt anything with the computer off?

And, I have other devices [spreakers, cable modem, printer]
plugged into it also, so I thought I might as well turn them all off.
That way, at the end of the year,
I can afford a new set of tires [for my bicycle]

thanks
marc

The most important thing is to be sure all the inputs to your system
and the house are protected. You need phone line and TV cable
protection too and be sure it is using the same ground point as the
electrical service protection (panel protector).

I agree that having phone and cable (and dish) entry protectors
connected to the power system grounding electrode is real important. If
wired to NEC standards entry protectors will be connected this way.
Phone companies are quite good at this. Cable not as good. And dish is
generally the worst.

You want a short ground wire from the entry protectors to the common
connection point. Ten feet may be too long.

It is likely that most equipment damage is from high voltages between
power and phone and cable wires rather than high voltage between H-N-G.

Those surge strips
may make you feel good but if you are not stopping most of the
problems before they get in your house you are not really doing much.

NIST surge guru Francois Martzloff looked at the amount of energy that
would be dissipated in a MOV in a plug-in suppressor when there was no
service panel suppressor. The branch circuit lengths were 10 to 50
meters. The surge on the incoming power wires were up to 10,000A (which
is the maximum that has any realistic probability of occurring). The
energy dissipated was surprisingly small - 35 joules maximum. In 13 of
15 cases it was 1 joule or less. Contrary to intuition, at all branch
circuit lengths the energy dissipation was lower at some of the higher
surge currents.

There are 2 reasons the energy was so low. One is that at about 6,000V
there is arc-over at the panel or meter. When the arc is established the
arc voltage is hundreds of volts. Since "ground" and neutral are
connected to the earthing system, that dumps most of the incoming surge
energy to earth.

(In Martzloff's investigation, large surges produced arc-over - which
greatly limited the energy that reached the MOV. For some lower incoming
surges, the MOV downstream on the branch circuit could limit the voltage
at the panel to below 6,000V, so there was no arc-over. That resulted in
more energy dissipation in the MOV.)

The other reason the energy in the MOV was so low is that a surge is a
very short duration event. That means the inductance of the wire is more
important than the resistance. The inductance greatly limits the current
that can flow, and thus the energy in the MOV. There will be higher
current in very short branch circuits.

(NEC 285.25 says that if "included in the manufacturer instructions"
there "shall be a minimum of 30 feet of conductor distance from the
service.")

Neither service panel or plug-in suppressors protect by absorbing
energy. Both absorb some energy in the process of protecting.




I'd add battery back up. I have it on all my computers. You can buy
cheap units that will keep power for several minutes in case of a power
outage to allow proper shut down.

Assuming you mean a UPS, look at the surge protection rating. And if you
depend on it for surge protection it should be listed under UL1449.


Also with surge strips, a surge may knock them out and they will not
provide protection for the next surge.

MOVs fail by starting to conduct at lower voltages, and finally starting
to conduct at normal voltage. That cause thermal runaway and basically a
short circuit. UL1449 has, since 1998, required thermal disconnects for
failing MOVs. The protected load can be connected across the MOVs and be
disconnected when the MOVs are - the protected load stays 'protected'.
This is, I believe, how both of the plug-in suppressors I use are wired.

MOVs are probably always connected downstream from the switch. When the
switch is turned off the MOVs are not across the incoming power wires,
but still are across the outlets.

=======================
It is important that all interconnected equipment be connected to the
same plug-in suppressor. Also that all external wires - power, cable,
phone - go through the plug in suppressor. Plug in suppressors primarily
protect by clamping the voltages on all wires to the common ground at
the suppressor.

--
bud--