Problem 1.

Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across corner of yard to
the driveway.

Q1: Coincidence or likely caused by the crane ?

Q2: Tree guys want me to believe that vibrations from the truck into
the ground shook some rust loose in the water pipes, possible ?

Q3: If a tree removal service runs crane over the yard (shortcut to
the driveway ) then runs over the water meter and or the ground above
the line feeding house from water meter are they responsible for a
break ?

Problem 2:

So now i want to find some proof evidence the water line is
broken/cracked or not.

Q4: how does one proove the line has a break/crack without physical
evidence like water coming up out of the ground ?

Q5: Are there any guidelines or standards for water pressure at the
faucet ?

Q6: Who publishes the actual water pressure you should expect from the
city water service ?


Thanks for any helpful replies.

robb

robb wrote:
Problem 1.

Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across corner of yard to
the driveway.

Q1: Coincidence or likely caused by the crane ?

it was caused by the crane

Q2: Tree guys want me to believe that vibrations from the truck into
the ground shook some rust loose in the water pipes, possible ?

very likely, but possible. if so, then it should go away after running the
water for a couple of minutes

Q3: If a tree removal service runs crane over the yard (shortcut to
the driveway ) then runs over the water meter and or the ground above
the line feeding house from water meter are they responsible for a
break ?

they should have insurance and/or a bond for this. they are.

Problem 2:

So now i want to find some proof evidence the water line is
broken/cracked or not.

Q4: how does one proove the line has a break/crack without physical
evidence like water coming up out of the ground ?

there will be, eventually. if not, you'd have to dig some. you could turn
off all water taps in the house and look to see if your water meter is
spinning. if there's a leak, it's going someplace.

Q5: Are there any guidelines or standards for water pressure at the
faucet ?

no.

Q6: Who publishes the actual water pressure you should expect from the
city water service ?

the city gets to decide what their correct pressure is. ask them.


Thanks for any helpful replies.

robb

On Mar 1, 8:18*pm, "robb" wrote:
Problem 1.

Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across *corner of yard to
the driveway.

Q1: Coincidence or likely caused by the crane ?

Q2: Tree guys want me to believe that vibrations from the truck into
the ground shook some rust loose in the water pipes, possible ?

Q3: If a tree removal service runs crane over the yard *(shortcut to
the driveway ) then runs over the water meter and or the ground above
the line feeding house from water meter are they responsible for a
break ?

Problem 2:

So now i want to find some proof evidence the water *line is
broken/cracked *or not.

Q4: how does one proove the line has a break/crack without physical
evidence like water coming up out of the ground ?

Q5: Are there any guidelines or standards for water pressure at the
faucet ?

Q6: Who publishes the actual water pressure you should expect from the
city water service ?

Thanks for any helpful replies.

robb

Possible either way.

The problem with leaks is that sometimes the water appears above
ground, sometimes not. Depends on the nature of the soil.
If you can get onto the pipe work near the possible leak, get a big
screwdriver, press the blade hard against the pipe and the other end
to your flesh immediately in front of your ear. You may be able to
hear the leak. Hissing or rushing, white noise sort of sound. Make
sure no water is being used nearby off this pipe, it can mask the
noise.

I would dig the pipe up and have a look at it. It must be close to the
surface or the problem would not have arisen.
You need to do this soon, the longer you leave it the less chance you
have of recompense.

On Mar 1, 8:39*pm, " wrote:
On Mar 1, 7:39*pm, FatterDumber& Happier Moe





wrote:
robb wrote:
Problem 1.

Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after tree
service drives their (big) crane truck across *corner of yard to the
driveway.

Q1: Coincidence or likely caused by the crane ?

Q2: Tree guys want me to believe that vibrations from the truck into the
ground shook some rust loose in the water pipes, possible ?

Q3: If a tree removal service runs crane over the yard *(shortcut to the
driveway ) then runs over the water meter and or the ground above the
line feeding house from water meter are they responsible for a break ?

Problem 2:

So now i want to find some proof evidence the water *line is
broken/cracked *or not.

Q4: how does one proove the line has a break/crack without physical
evidence like water coming up out of the ground ?

Q5: Are there any guidelines or standards for water pressure at the
faucet ?

Q6: Who publishes the actual water pressure you should expect from the
city water service ?

Thanks for any helpful replies.

robb

* Sometimes things happen. *I'd guess the truck probably pushed the line
down enough to dislodge the built up deposits in the line. *And it may
or may not leak, and if it doesn't leak it may or may not in in the near
or distant future. *If it does then good luck proving it wouldn't have
leaked anyway if the truck did or didn't drive over it. *Are you good
with a shovel?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if its a old line it may and likely crushed, pressure might be fine
but flow low, as crushed line obstructs flow.

if the OP is concerned about the line gig it up and replace with PEX,
which I would put in schedule 40 PVC for mechanical protection. plus
if the line ever needs replace again just dig at either end and slide
in new line, in PVC

document the lines condition when dug up, pictures videos etc. if its
crushed or damage go after the tree guys.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You just don't have a clue do you? Service line these days is hdpe.
And there is no reason to encapsulate it inside pvc. If the op
replaces his entire service line the likelihood of him having to deal
with it again in his lifetime is nill.

You just don't have a clue do you? *Service line these days is hdpe.
And there is no reason to encapsulate it inside pvc. *If the op
replaces his entire service line the likelihood of him having to deal
with it again in his lifetime is nill.-

well if any line is in a area driven over mechanical protection is a
good idea. espically good for rentals.

of course over my lifetime i have known 4 or 5 people who had to have
service lines replaced from crushing

if i replace the gas line here i would do the same to protect it. PVC
is cheap insurance. and the older i get the less digging thrills me

On 3/1/2011 3:18 PM, robb wrote:
Problem 1.

Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after tree
service drives their (big) crane truck across corner of yard to the
driveway.

Q1: Coincidence or likely caused by the crane ?

Q2: Tree guys want me to believe that vibrations from the truck into the
ground shook some rust loose in the water pipes, possible ?

Ever looked inside a steel pipe? It is scary. With the pressure
inside the line much higher than outside it's unlikely that anything is
getting in the line that wasn't there before.

Q3: If a tree removal service runs crane over the yard (shortcut to the
driveway ) then runs over the water meter and or the ground above the
line feeding house from water meter are they responsible for a break ?

Problem 2:

So now i want to find some proof evidence the water line is
broken/cracked or not.


Watch the meter when you have everything off.

If all this clears up do nothing, unless you suspect the line has
been crushed (low flow) as hallerb has mentioned.

Jeff

Watch the meter when you have everything off.


This is the second suggestion. I don't think it works like that. Water
must pass through the meter to move it.

OTOH, If his meter is across the street...

On 3/2/2011 11:20 AM, Thomas wrote:
Watch the meter when you have everything off.


This is the second suggestion. I don't think it works like that. Water
must pass through the meter to move it.

OTOH, If his meter is across the street...

Doesn't the water company always deal with leaks that are upstream of
the meter? They do here. Or if they are at the meter. Have a friend that
the postman drives on top of the meter box, ongoing problem that the
water department fixes.

Jeff

wrote in message
I cant believe all the stupid comments in this thread.

#1. The meter will not spin of there is a leak in the line BEFORE the
meter. Most meters are in the basement. The line from the street
MAIN to the house is BEFORE the meter. The meter will NOT spin if
there is a leak underground.

The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong. In the
north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement and, of course, the
meter will not spin. In some milder climate areas, the meter is often at
the street. In that case, the meter will spin.

On 3/4/2011 6:19 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
I cant believe all the stupid comments in this thread.

#1. The meter will not spin of there is a leak in the line BEFORE the
meter. Most meters are in the basement. The line from the street
MAIN to the house is BEFORE the meter. The meter will NOT spin if
there is a leak underground.

The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong. In
the north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement and, of
course, the meter will not spin. In some milder climate areas, the meter
is often at the street. In that case, the meter will spin.

I didn't know that. I have *never* seen a meter in the basement, but
then I am in the south. Leaks from the street to the house are common
here and are never dealt with by the water company. Since we don't know
where the OP is, it will be up to the OP...

Jeff

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 06:45:39 -0500, Jeff Thies
wrote:

On 3/4/2011 6:19 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
I cant believe all the stupid comments in this thread.

#1. The meter will not spin of there is a leak in the line BEFORE the
meter. Most meters are in the basement. The line from the street
MAIN to the house is BEFORE the meter. The meter will NOT spin if
there is a leak underground.

The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong. In
the north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement and, of
course, the meter will not spin. In some milder climate areas, the meter
is often at the street. In that case, the meter will spin.

I didn't know that. I have *never* seen a meter in the basement, but
then I am in the south.

I didn't know that either.
The ones I've seen are always in the basement up here near Chicago.
If there is a basement. Don't know about slab houses, never looked.
I expect in the utility room.
In Chicago you would let the meter reader into the basement.
They'd walk around a house yelling WATER!
Probably had more dog bites than the postman.
Here in the suburb I live in now there's a wire from the basement
meter to a small box to an outside wall, so they read remotely.
Maybe they've done that in Chicago by now.
Where are the meters located down south?
Street or next to the house?

--Vic

I'm in the Rochester, NY area. Meters are always in the
cellar, here. Often, gas meters in the cellar also. The two
houses I lived in, growing up, both had water and gas meters
in the cellar.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


The problem with generalizations is that they are
generally wrong. In
the north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement
and, of
course, the meter will not spin. In some milder climate
areas, the meter
is often at the street. In that case, the meter will
spin.

I didn't know that. I have *never* seen a meter in the
basement, but
then I am in the south.

On Mar 4, 7:11*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 06:45:39 -0500, Jeff Thies
wrote:





On 3/4/2011 6:19 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
I cant believe all the stupid comments in this thread.

#1. The meter will not spin of there is a leak in the line BEFORE the
meter. Most meters are in the basement. The line from the street
MAIN to the house is BEFORE the meter. The meter will NOT spin if
there is a leak underground.

The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong. In
the north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement and, of
course, the meter will not spin. In some milder climate areas, the meter
is often at the street. In that case, the meter will spin.

I didn't know that. I have *never* seen a meter in the basement, but
then I am in the south.

I didn't know that either.
The ones I've seen are always in the basement up here near Chicago.
If there is a basement. *Don't know about slab houses, never looked.
I expect in the utility room.
In Chicago you would let the meter reader into the basement.
They'd walk around a house yelling WATER!
Probably had more dog bites than the postman.
Here in the suburb I live in now there's a wire from the basement
meter to a small box *to an outside wall, so they read remotely.
Maybe they've done that in Chicago by now.
Where are the meters located down south?
Street or next to the house?

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like Vic lives in Naperville, IL

On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:56:45 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:



Sounds like Vic lives in Naperville, IL

No, Morton Grove.
But one of my sons lives in Naperville.

--Vic

On 3/4/2011 8:11 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 06:45:39 -0500, Jeff
wrote:

On 3/4/2011 6:19 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
I cant believe all the stupid comments in this thread.

#1. The meter will not spin of there is a leak in the line BEFORE the
meter. Most meters are in the basement. The line from the street
MAIN to the house is BEFORE the meter. The meter will NOT spin if
there is a leak underground.

The problem with generalizations is that they are generally wrong. In
the north, cold climates, most meters are in the basement and, of
course, the meter will not spin. In some milder climate areas, the meter
is often at the street. In that case, the meter will spin.

I didn't know that. I have *never* seen a meter in the basement, but
then I am in the south.

I didn't know that either.
The ones I've seen are always in the basement up here near Chicago.
If there is a basement. Don't know about slab houses, never looked.
I expect in the utility room.
In Chicago you would let the meter reader into the basement.
They'd walk around a house yelling WATER!
Probably had more dog bites than the postman.

I imagine so!

Here in the suburb I live in now there's a wire from the basement
meter to a small box to an outside wall, so they read remotely.
Maybe they've done that in Chicago by now.
Where are the meters located down south?
Street or next to the house?


Right on the street in a sunken iron box with a lid. Millions of them.

Jeff


--Vic

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:04:30 -0600, wrote:



I'm from the north and all meters have always been in the basement or
for homes with no basement, they are in some utility room. In many
areas the water meter readers no longer have to enter the homes. They
now have some device hooked to the meter and there is a readout on the
outside of the house. I live in the o****ry and have a well, but I
have some friends and relatives in the city. I looked at one of those
things. A wire runs from the meter to the outside reader. A wire
goes from the meter to that outside thing, but is not connected to the
electrical system. I have no clue how that works.....

Some kind of e-lek-tris-ity generating doo-dad.
http://jerman.com/kmspecsovr.html

--Vic

"robb" wrote in message
...

[recap of OP]
Problem 1.
Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across corner of yard
to the driveway.

Problem 2:
So now i want to find some proof evidence the water line is
broken/cracked or not.


Thanks to all of your responses on the water problem.

What came to pass....
I collected several cups of the red/brown water. I showed it to the
workers and they say , "not our problem" (suspiciously dismissive).
I contacted tree service manager about the water going red 15 minutes
after the crane pulled in driveway.

They sent someone out to look. Showed him the water and ran some out
of the tap. Also pointed out that the sinks, tubs and toilets do not
have rust stains so this is not an on going problem. He admitted that
sometimes the workers will do things like drop the crane hook/ball
weight, run over meters or even drop trunks on yard etc but he looked
all over the area and did not see any evidence of this.

A neighbor had informed me that the "fold out crane boom" bumped a
large (60 ft) oak that happens to be growing close to the water line
run. The tree guy said either the truck or bumping the tree could have
shaken the line enough to loosen some rust in the line.

He suggested running water for a while to see if it clears up, and to
keep watch for water springing up out of yard or running back into
the meter box.

We also learned from city service that the static water pressure can
be any where from 35 - 80 psi and that we have a low pressure service
water meter installed on our municipal water line because we have the
older iron pipes. If we want high pressure meter service we need to
replace our home service line with an approved high pressure line.

Conclusion .....
Water cleared up after running for about 20 minutes continuous and we
have not seen any more discoloration nor signs of leaks in the yard.
The water pressure is stable and within acceptable range though on the
low side.

Thanks again for your advice and help,
robb

My parents used to have brown water, now and again. A truck
would rumble down the road, and shake the rust off the
bottom of the water main. Oh, well. We'd let the water run
out, and it would clear after a while.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"robb" wrote in message
m...
"robb" wrote in message
...

[recap of OP]
Problem 1.
Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10
minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across corner
of yard
to the driveway.

Problem 2:
So now i want to find some proof evidence the water line
is
broken/cracked or not.


Thanks to all of your responses on the water problem.

What came to pass....
I collected several cups of the red/brown water. I showed it
to the
workers and they say , "not our problem" (suspiciously
dismissive).
I contacted tree service manager about the water going red
15 minutes
after the crane pulled in driveway.

They sent someone out to look. Showed him the water and ran
some out
of the tap. Also pointed out that the sinks, tubs and
toilets do not
have rust stains so this is not an on going problem. He
admitted that
sometimes the workers will do things like drop the crane
hook/ball
weight, run over meters or even drop trunks on yard etc but
he looked
all over the area and did not see any evidence of this.

A neighbor had informed me that the "fold out crane boom"
bumped a
large (60 ft) oak that happens to be growing close to the
water line
run. The tree guy said either the truck or bumping the tree
could have
shaken the line enough to loosen some rust in the line.

He suggested running water for a while to see if it clears
up, and to
keep watch for water springing up out of yard or running
back into
the meter box.

We also learned from city service that the static water
pressure can
be any where from 35 - 80 psi and that we have a low
pressure service
water meter installed on our municipal water line because
we have the
older iron pipes. If we want high pressure meter service we
need to
replace our home service line with an approved high
pressure line.

Conclusion .....
Water cleared up after running for about 20 minutes
continuous and we
have not seen any more discoloration nor signs of leaks in
the yard.
The water pressure is stable and within acceptable range
though on the
low side.

Thanks again for your advice and help,
robb

On Mar 11, 2:53*pm, "robb" wrote:
"robb" *wrote in message

...

[recap of OP]
Problem 1.
Faucet water runs red/brown (think red clay) about 10 minutes after
tree service drives their (big) crane truck across *corner of yard
to the driveway.

Problem 2:
So now i want to find some proof evidence the water *line is
broken/cracked *or not.

Thanks to all of your responses on the water problem.

What came to pass....
I collected several cups of the red/brown water. I showed it to the
workers and they say , "not our problem" (suspiciously dismissive).
I contacted tree service manager about the water going red *15 minutes
after the crane pulled in driveway.

They sent someone out to look. Showed him the water and ran some out
of the tap. Also pointed out that the sinks, tubs and toilets do not
have rust stains so this is not an on going problem. He admitted that
sometimes the workers will do things like drop the crane hook/ball
weight, run over meters or even drop trunks on yard etc but he looked
all over the area and did not see any evidence of this.

A neighbor had informed me that *the "fold out crane boom" bumped a
large (60 ft) oak that happens to be growing close to the water line
run. The tree guy said either the truck or bumping the tree could have
shaken the line enough to loosen some rust in the line.

He suggested running water for a while to see if it clears up, and to
keep watch for water springing up out of yard or running back *into
the meter box.

We also *learned from city service that the static water pressure can
be any where from 35 - 80 psi and that we have a low pressure service
water meter *installed on our municipal water line because we have the
older iron pipes. If we want high pressure meter service we need to
replace our home service line with *an approved high pressure line.

Conclusion .....
Water cleared up after running for about 20 minutes continuous and we
have not seen any more discoloration nor signs of leaks in the yard.
The water pressure is stable and within acceptable range though on the
low side.

Thanks again for your advice and help,
robb

I'd definitely read the meter and see if it moves at all with all
water usage
off. Could do it overnight. That of course assumes the meter is
before
the line in question.

As to who's responsible, I think the answer is it depends. If this
were in
the north, that line should be below the frost line and it seems very
unlikely that driving a crane over it would cause a pipe that is in
reasonable condition to fail. If it did, then I'd say it's the crane
companies
fault. On the other hand, if it's an old iron pipe that's clearly
badly
deteriorated and was only buried a foot deep, then it's not as clear.
Also, these companies frequently have contract terms that you must
agree to and sign that relieve them of responsibility for any such
damage that occurs.