I had never though about this until I read the "How do I Unthaw yard
hydrant underground?" thread.

In my shop I have a standard yard hydrant that feeds the sink, stool,
etc. The hydrant is only about 6" from the wall so the underground
portion is very close to the footing. I keep the temperature in the shop
at 46 degrees F unless I am out there (which is rare in the winter) and
then I turn it up to about 68. In short, the hydrant is normally in an
area that is 46 degrees F and it is always turned on so there is water
in the standpipe at all times. Also, it might go at least a week without
any flow through it (stool not flushed, sink not on, etc.) so it does
not freeze because water is moving through it.

It is hard to believe that the simple fact that it is in a building with
limited heat would keep the pipe underground warm enough to keep it from
freezing but it has not froze in the six years since I build the shop.

Oh yeah, I live in SE Iowa so it gets down to zero sometimes (like two
nights ago).

Comments welcome.

Don

IGot2P wrote:
....

It is hard to believe that the simple fact that it is in a building with
limited heat would keep the pipe underground warm enough to keep it from
freezing but it has not froze in the six years since I build the shop.
....

Well, that fact shouldn't make it _TOO_ hard to believe...

--

On Jan 23, 3:13*pm, IGot2P wrote:
I had never though about this until I read the "How do I Unthaw yard
hydrant underground?" thread.

In my shop I have a standard yard hydrant that feeds the sink, stool,
etc. The hydrant is only about 6" from the wall so the underground
portion is very close to the footing. I keep the temperature in the shop
at 46 degrees F unless I am out there (which is rare in the winter) and
then I turn it up to about 68. In short, the hydrant is normally in an
area that is 46 degrees F and it is always turned on so there is water
in the standpipe at all times. Also, it might go at least a week without
any flow through it (stool not flushed, sink not on, etc.) so it does
not freeze because water is moving through it.

It is hard to believe that the simple fact that it is in a building with
limited heat would keep the pipe underground warm enough to keep it from
freezing but it has not froze in the six years since I build the shop.

Oh yeah, I live in SE Iowa so it gets down to zero sometimes (like two
nights ago).

Comments welcome.

Don

How far down in the ground is the pipe, how far from the house is the
shop, what is the temp of the house end, is there any insulation
around the pipe that is in the ground? The pipe itself will conduct
heat from its surroundings down into the ground and so if it is short
enough that will keep it from freezing. What is on the ground itself.
any straw or fegetation that would help keep the ground from
conducting cold down? Is it a south-facing area, or a north-facing
area, that will make a difference.

IGot2P wrote:
I had never though about this until I read the "How do I Unthaw yard
hydrant underground?" thread.

In my shop I have a standard yard hydrant that feeds the sink, stool,
etc. The hydrant is only about 6" from the wall so the underground
portion is very close to the footing. I keep the temperature in the shop
at 46 degrees F unless I am out there (which is rare in the winter) and
then I turn it up to about 68. In short, the hydrant is normally in an
area that is 46 degrees F and it is always turned on so there is water
in the standpipe at all times. Also, it might go at least a week without
any flow through it (stool not flushed, sink not on, etc.) so it does
not freeze because water is moving through it.

It is hard to believe that the simple fact that it is in a building with
limited heat would keep the pipe underground warm enough to keep it from
freezing but it has not froze in the six years since I build the shop.

Oh yeah, I live in SE Iowa so it gets down to zero sometimes (like two
nights ago).

Comments welcome.

Don



It's probably a frost free hydrant. The water lines should be
buried below the frost line. Your footing probably is too. I live in
southeast Nebraska. The frost line is something like 4 feet here.

Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
...

It's probably a frost free hydrant. The water lines
should be
buried below the frost line. Your footing probably is too.
I live in
southeast Nebraska. The frost line is something like 4 feet
here.

On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641


Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

On Jan 23, 4:48*pm, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
* * *http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

We "Northers" also learn to take the hose off the frost
proof garden hose faucet. Hose left on, faucet still full of
water, and faucet cracks just like the cheap kind.

Years ago, at a press conference. General H. "Stormin
Norman" Schwarzkopf was asked what were their plans for
dealing with the enemy. He replied "We will pursue them, and
we will kill them." Quoting from memory, I could not find
that on the net. I will never be a US General, but I can be
Stormin Mormon.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Roy" wrote in message
...

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If
we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are
designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don

On Jan 23, 8:32*pm, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:



On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, *wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrants, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There should be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
* * *http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant..

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don

==
Our frost line is usually at the 4 to 6 foot line and occasionally
deeper.

I doubt if yours will ever freeze considering that there is some heat.
Outside, different story.
==

On 1/23/2011 9:32 PM, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don



where are you? We have a lot of lines around here (KC area) that are at
24". They don't freeze at that level. It takes a loooooooonnnnnnngggg
hard freeze to get that deep.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/23/2011 10:33 PM, Roy wrote:
On Jan 23, 8:32 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:



On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrants, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There should be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don

==
Our frost line is usually at the 4 to 6 foot line and occasionally
deeper.

I doubt if yours will ever freeze considering that there is some heat.
Outside, different story.
==

and where are you? 4 to 6 feet??? Siberia? Not in the lower 48 i
doubt it very much EVER freezes below about 30 inches.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:37:12 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 1/23/2011 10:33 PM, Roy wrote:
On Jan 23, 8:32 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:



On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrants, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There should be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don

==
Our frost line is usually at the 4 to 6 foot line and occasionally
deeper.

I doubt if yours will ever freeze considering that there is some heat.
Outside, different story.
==

and where are you? 4 to 6 feet??? Siberia? Not in the lower 48 i
doubt it very much EVER freezes below about 30 inches.

Nonsense. When I lived in the Burlington Vermont area it wasn't unheard of to
have water mains break down to 7' in bad Winters (makes a real mess at -30F).
I had deck posts down 4'. Every year they heaved 4-8" more, until I just
pulled them out the last year and put the thing on blocks.

Cans of soda left in the garage are fun, too!

On 1/23/2011 11:36 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/23/2011 9:32 PM, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/23/2011 6:08 PM, Roy wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On 1/23/2011 5:11 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yard hydrands, like fire department hydrants. Very often,
there is a controlling rod, the actual valve is below the
frost line. There shoul d be a drain on the bottom. When the
valve is closed, the water within the vertical pipe drains
into the ground.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641

Of course when the valve is closed the water should drain out of the
weep hole but my hydrant is NEVER closed thus there is always water in
the standpipe from approx. 4' underground up to the top of the hydrant.

Don

==
Well CLOSE it after you use it or someday it will freeze. If we leave
it open up here in the frozen north it will freeze. They are designed
to drain once you close them off.

Stormin' Norman has it right...read his posting and learn.
==

You must be further north than I am because it has been open for 6 years
and has not froze yet (knock on wood). It is not like it is sitting out
in the open, it comes up through the concrete slab floor in a building
that is always heated to 45 degrees F and sometimes up to 68. The only
place that it might freeze would be between the floor and the frost line
which could get as deep as 30".

Don



where are you? We have a lot of lines around here (KC area) that are at
24". They don't freeze at that level. It takes a loooooooonnnnnnngggg
hard freeze to get that deep.


Extreme SE Iowa. If you would go straight up #35 and then turn east on
#2 in IA and continue east until you are about 20 miles from IL you
would find me. Obviously, north of you. And yes, I have seen water lines
freeze that are 30" deep up this way.

Don