I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

On Jan 18, 9:01*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

No, the tripped position is the same for both situations

On Jan 18, 9:31*am, Mikepier wrote:
On Jan 18, 9:01*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?

I'm talking about a GFCI *breaker*, not a receptacle.

http://www.google.com/products?q=gfci+breaker&hl=en

Unlike a GFCI receptacle, a GFCI breaker will trip due to both
overcurrent and fault conditions.

I'm trying to determine if you can tell which "part" of the GFCI
breaker tripped.

On Jan 18, 9:40*am, "RBM" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

No, the tripped position is the same for both situations

Thanks.

As a troubleshooting technique could I wire/pigtail a temp GFCI outlet
right outside the breaker box and see if it trips?

Would I need to move the circuit to a standard breaker so as not to
have 2 GFCI's in series?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 9:40 am, "RBM" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

No, the tripped position is the same for both situations

Thanks.

As a troubleshooting technique could I wire/pigtail a temp GFCI outlet
right outside the breaker box and see if it trips?

Would I need to move the circuit to a standard breaker so as not to
have 2 GFCI's in series?

If you want to determine if it's tripping due to overload or ground fault,
you could replace the GFCI breaker with a standard breaker, the connect it
to a GFCI outlet

In ,
Mikepier typed:
On Jan 18, 9:01 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the
answer to this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to
a ground fault or due to an over-current situation just by
looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip
due to a fault.
What is plugged into it?

Correct. More specifically, they trip when the current in the Hot wire is x
mA more/less than the Neutral wire. I forget the actual mA ranges. In
reality, the earth ground has nothing to do with it; GFCI's can also be used
on 2-wire, ungrounded systems and work fine.
I think the "ground fault" in the name is because in order to have an
imbalance in the Hot/Neutral, the missing current has somehow gone into the
ground (fault condition) at some point other than the device itself. e.g.
inside conduit, junction boxes, frayed insulation, bad fixtures, miswires,
etc. etc. etc..

HTH,

Twayne`

On Jan 18, 10:33*am, "Twayne" wrote:
,
Mikepier typed:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the
answer to this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to
a ground fault or due to an over-current situation just by
looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip
due to a fault.
What is plugged into it?

Correct. More specifically, they trip when the current in the Hot wire is x
mA more/less than the Neutral wire. I forget the actual mA ranges. In
reality, the earth ground has nothing to do with it; GFCI's can also be used
on 2-wire, ungrounded systems and work fine.
* *I think the "ground fault" in the name is because in order to have an
imbalance in the Hot/Neutral, the missing current has somehow gone into the
ground (fault condition) at some point other than the device itself. e.g.
inside conduit, junction boxes, frayed insulation, bad fixtures, miswires,
etc. etc. etc..

HTH,

Twayne`

"Correct"

No, he is not correct, at least not in this situation.

As per the subject line of this tread, the question was related to
GFCI *breakers*, not GFCI receptacles.

A GFCI *breaker* will trip for both over-current and fault situations.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01Â*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.
Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:43:03 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:31Â*am, Mikepier wrote:
On Jan 18, 9:01Â*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?

I'm talking about a GFCI *breaker*, not a receptacle.

http://www.google.com/products?q=gfci+breaker&hl=en

Unlike a GFCI receptacle, a GFCI breaker will trip due to both
overcurrent and fault conditions.

I'm trying to determine if you can tell which "part" of the GFCI
breaker tripped.
Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.

Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.


Please give me a link to one "GFCI" circuit breaker that has a trip
indicator showing what caused the trip

On Jan 18, 3:21*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
*wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, *wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER *trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.
Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

On Jan 18, 5:30*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony *wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
* *wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, * *wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER *trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little *button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:42:31 -0500, "RBM" wrote Re
GFCI Breaker Question:



Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.


Please give me a link to one "GFCI" circuit breaker that has a trip
indicator showing what caused the trip


http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/gfci.html

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?
Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)

On Jan 18, 5:48*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony *wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony * *wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
* * *wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, * * *wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER *trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little *button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?

Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)

Thanks for all that fine information.

Now tell me why you think my original question is flawed.

Tip: It might help if you tell me what any of that has to do with the
question I asked *in this thread*.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:48 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?

Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)

Thanks for all that fine information.

Now tell me why you think my original question is flawed.

Tip: It might help if you tell me what any of that has to do with the
question I asked *in this thread*.

Hi,
Let me ask you one question. Is the breaker rated by Watt?
Over and out/

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:48 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer
to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a
ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker
and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or
current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?

Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)

Thanks for all that fine information.

Now tell me why you think my original question is flawed.

Tip: It might help if you tell me what any of that has to do with the
question I asked *in this thread*.

Hi,
Let me ask you one question. Is the breaker rated by Watt?
Over and out/

The original question was real simple and straight forward. The word watt or
wattage was never introduced, except by you

On Jan 18, 6:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:48 pm, Tony *wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony * *wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony * * *wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
* * * *wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, * * * *wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER *trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little *button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?

Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)

Thanks for all that fine information.

Now tell me why you think my original question is flawed.

Tip: It might help if you tell me what any of that has to do with the
question I asked *in this thread*.

Hi,
Let me ask you one question. Is the breaker rated by Watt?
Over and out/

Once again - and I'll be real specific this time - tell me how *watts*
has anything to do with the question I asked in this thread?

Why don't you copy and paste the part of my question that requires an
explanation of power in your next response so we can all see what you
are talking about.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:42:31 -0500, "RBM" wrote:



Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.


Please give me a link to one "GFCI" circuit breaker that has a trip
indicator showing what caused the trip

The only one I saw was a combination GFCI/AFI and had LED trip
indicator that showed if it was a GFI or AFI trip. No indicator meant
over-current. Cannot remember the brand off-hand.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:30:42 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.
Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.
LOTS of them, particularly AFI, ARE microprocessor based.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:48:13 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:30 pm, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hmm,
I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor built-in.
GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops out when
tripped. It does not tell why.

Is that the answer to why you think my original question is flawed?
Hi,
In a way, yes. Watt is originating from James Watt who invented steam
engine. It relates to Horse Power. In Ohm's law symbol of Watt is P
which means power. P=E x I, P=I^2 x R, P= E^2/R Amount of P is depending
on current and/or voltage. So if either one is high over the limit any
breaker will trip. Watt used for real work is consumed by resistive
load. Lost false Watt is used by inductive, capacitive load.
(Remember impedance Z?)
If it is a thermal breaker it responds to wattage. If it is magnetic
it responds strictly to current. Many are combination trip.

On 1/18/2011 2:23 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Hmm, The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload
or current leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is
flawed to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

The answer: nothing. Dunno where Mr. Hwang got "watts", since you wrote:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

"Over-current" is absolutely the correct term here. Amps, dontcha know.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:40:31 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:01:40 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:42:31 -0500, "RBM" wrote:



Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.


Please give me a link to one "GFCI" circuit breaker that has a trip
indicator showing what caused the trip

The only one I saw was a combination GFCI/AFI and had LED trip
indicator that showed if it was a GFI or AFI trip. No indicator meant
over-current. Cannot remember the brand off-hand.

Siemens/Murray
Sounds right.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 1/18/2011 2:23 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

On Jan 18, 3:21 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Hmm, The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload
or current leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is
flawed to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

The answer: nothing. Dunno where Mr. Hwang got "watts", since you wrote:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

"Over-current" is absolutely the correct term here. Amps, dontcha know.



There was a similar question a day or so befor this one. When similar
threads start, it is easy to get confused as to which is which, especially
when they get long.
The heading was can "wattage" trip a GFIC or something similar to that.
The Wattage was in quotes as maybe the poster did not use the correct term
of current, although it really was a wattage question the way it was put.

Here is part of the question:


"I believe that it's the pure wattage requirements of these lights,
more than their quality (or lack thereof) that caused my GFCI to
trip."

Does that make any sense?

If it was an current overage the breaker would trip not the GFCI so
why would a "high wattage" device trip the GFCI?

In article ,
Tony Hwang wrote:



Hi,
Let me ask you one question. Is the breaker rated by Watt?
Over and out/

Tony, you're illiterate, and drunk. But I imagine you'll be sober by
morning.

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 3:21*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:









wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:31:44 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
*wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, *wrote:
I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the answer to
this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due to a ground
fault or due to an over-current situation just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to trip?

I don't believe GFI's trip due to overcurrent. They trip due to a
fault.
What is plugged into it?
a CFCI BREAKER *trips from overload, otherwize it is not a breaker and
your circuit is not overload protected. A GFCI OUTLET does not trip
from a balanced overload.

Hmm,
The purpose of GFCI breaker is dual fold tripping on overload or current
leakage. Watt is amount of energy, the OP's question is flawed
to begin with.

Please tell us what is flawed with my original question.

I can't wait to hear this one.

Some of the people reading it, don't read so good?

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

If it was an current overage the breaker would trip not the GFCI so
why would a "high wattage" device trip the GFCI?

This has been cleared up six times now, so I'll volunteer for the
seventh: Read the *title* of the thread. This is a *GFCI breaker.* The
GFCI *is* the breaker. The breaker *is* the GFCI. They are one and the
same. See?

On 1/18/2011 5:03 PM spake thus:

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:30:42 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, wrote:

I'm at work, having a brain cramp and can't remember the
answer to this question:

If a GFCI breaker trips, can you tell if it tripped due
to a ground fault or due to an over-current situation
just by looking at it?

Is there any way to tell which situation caused it to
trip?

Hmm, I betcha that one is VERY intelligent with micro processor
built-in. GFCI breaker in my house has a little button which pops
out when tripped. It does not tell why.

LOTS of them, particularly AFI, ARE microprocessor based.

AFCIs might have some digital brains in 'em, but so far as I know GFCIs
are purely analog devices (basically a current comparator). And
electromechanical to boot (that's what pops the little button out).


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:42:31 -0500, "RBM" wrote:



Some of the newer GFCI and AFCI breakers have trip indicator LEDs
that indicate which type of fault caused the trip. Most of the earlier
basic GFCI breakers have no trip indicator.


Please give me a link to one "GFCI" circuit breaker that has a trip
indicator showing what caused the trip

The only one I saw was a combination GFCI/AFI and had LED trip
indicator that showed if it was a GFI or AFI trip. No indicator meant
over-current. Cannot remember the brand off-hand.

That is not a "GFCI" circuit breaker. The OP question was regarding a GFCI
breaker. A combination AFCI/GFCI is not used for class A ground fault
protection.
There is no GFCI breaker, new or old, that has an indicator to determine
the cause of the trip

wrote:

If it is a thermal breaker it responds to wattage. If it is magnetic
it responds strictly to current. Many are combination trip.


All the breaker knows about is the current going through it. Both
thermal and magnetic elements trip on current. Thermal gives you a time
delay inversely proportional to current (which is where the early brand
ITE - inverse time element - came from). Breakers in your house are
thermal (time delay) and magnetic (instantaneous).

--
bud--

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:48:56 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:

If it is a thermal breaker it responds to wattage. If it is magnetic
it responds strictly to current. Many are combination trip.


All the breaker knows about is the current going through it. Both
thermal and magnetic elements trip on current. Thermal gives you a time
delay inversely proportional to current (which is where the early brand
ITE - inverse time element - came from). Breakers in your house are
thermal (time delay) and magnetic (instantaneous).
Not 100% true. Thermal breakers take less current to trip when the
voltage goes up, and more when voltage drops, so are "power sensitive"
instead of "current sensitive".

Magnetic breakers operate on "ampere turns" - the coil has X number of
turns of wire on it, and a portion (depending on the design) of the
load current goes through that coil. When the current through the coil
gets high enough the breaker trips. A 600 volt 20 amp magnetic breaker
will trip reliably on a 24 volt system as well as on 600.

A 120 volt thermal breaker will trip at a lower current on 240 volts,
and will require an extremely high current to trip on 24 volts.

Most American residential breakers, being "hybrids" work well on 120
volt circuits but would be useless on say a british 240 volt system.
Not totally useless, because the instantaneous magnetic trip would be
fine, but the thermal would trip too fast.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:48:56 -0600, bud--
wrote:

Magnetic breakers operate on "ampere turns" - the coil has X number of
turns of wire on it, and a portion (depending on the design) of the
load current goes through that coil. When the current through the coil
gets high enough the breaker trips. A 600 volt 20 amp magnetic breaker
will trip reliably on a 24 volt system as well as on 600.

A 120 volt thermal breaker will trip at a lower current on 240 volts,
and will require an extremely high current to trip on 24 volts.

Most American residential breakers, being "hybrids" work well on 120
volt circuits but would be useless on say a british 240 volt system.
Not totally useless, because the instantaneous magnetic trip would be
fine, but the thermal would trip too fast.

Both magnetic and thermal breakers only operate on current. It does not
mater what voltage is being used. You are fine on the magnetic, but wrong
on the thermal breakers.

A magnetic breaker operates almost instantly on an overload. The thermal
breakers (almost the same as fuses) will operate on lower voltages than the
maximum ratings just fine. They have a small amount of resistance material
in them that heat up depending only on the current. I just looked at a
single breaker that is normally used in houses. It is rated at 20 amps and
states it is for 120/240 volts.
The thermal breakers are sort of time delayed. They take time to trip
depending on how much over current is put through them. If say a 20 amp
rated breaker has 22 amps going through it, it may take 30 minuets to trip.
If it has 25 amps, it may trip in 1 minuets. If it has 40 amps , it may
trip in less than a second. The exact trip curve will depend on the
breaker.

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:03:46 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:48:56 -0600, bud--
wrote:

Magnetic breakers operate on "ampere turns" - the coil has X number of
turns of wire on it, and a portion (depending on the design) of the
load current goes through that coil. When the current through the coil
gets high enough the breaker trips. A 600 volt 20 amp magnetic breaker
will trip reliably on a 24 volt system as well as on 600.

A 120 volt thermal breaker will trip at a lower current on 240 volts,
and will require an extremely high current to trip on 24 volts.

Most American residential breakers, being "hybrids" work well on 120
volt circuits but would be useless on say a british 240 volt system.
Not totally useless, because the instantaneous magnetic trip would be
fine, but the thermal would trip too fast.

Both magnetic and thermal breakers only operate on current. It does not
mater what voltage is being used. You are fine on the magnetic, but wrong
on the thermal breakers.

A magnetic breaker operates almost instantly on an overload. The thermal
breakers (almost the same as fuses) will operate on lower voltages than the
maximum ratings just fine. They have a small amount of resistance material
in them that heat up depending only on the current. I just looked at a
single breaker that is normally used in houses. It is rated at 20 amps and
states it is for 120/240 volts.
The thermal breakers are sort of time delayed. They take time to trip
depending on how much over current is put through them. If say a 20 amp
rated breaker has 22 amps going through it, it may take 30 minuets to trip.
If it has 25 amps, it may trip in 1 minuets. If it has 40 amps , it may
trip in less than a second. The exact trip curve will depend on the
breaker.

Well, my experience using a heavy duty thermal/magnetic breaker on a
low voltage DC application flys in the face of your knowledge.
The breaker in question has an adjustable magnetic (fast) trip and a
fixed thermal(slow) trip. On 24 and 48 volts 450 amps would not trip
the thermal trip in 2 minutes. I could adjust the magnetic to trip at
any current I wanted, from about 50 amps up - and it tripped very
reliably at that current on both 24 and 48 volts (DC).
On 120 volts 80 amps would trip the thermal in less than a minute.
This was a 3 phase breaker designed for use on a standard commercial 3
phase system (115/208/whatever) and was used in an electric car as the
main circuit protection.

wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:03:46 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:48:56 -0600, bud--
wrote:
Magnetic breakers operate on "ampere turns" - the coil has X number of
turns of wire on it, and a portion (depending on the design) of the
load current goes through that coil. When the current through the coil
gets high enough the breaker trips. A 600 volt 20 amp magnetic breaker
will trip reliably on a 24 volt system as well as on 600.

A 120 volt thermal breaker will trip at a lower current on 240 volts,
and will require an extremely high current to trip on 24 volts.

Most American residential breakers, being "hybrids" work well on 120
volt circuits but would be useless on say a british 240 volt system.
Not totally useless, because the instantaneous magnetic trip would be
fine, but the thermal would trip too fast.
Both magnetic and thermal breakers only operate on current. It does not
mater what voltage is being used. You are fine on the magnetic, but wrong
on the thermal breakers.

A magnetic breaker operates almost instantly on an overload. The thermal
breakers (almost the same as fuses) will operate on lower voltages than the
maximum ratings just fine. They have a small amount of resistance material
in them that heat up depending only on the current. I just looked at a
single breaker that is normally used in houses. It is rated at 20 amps and
states it is for 120/240 volts.
The thermal breakers are sort of time delayed. They take time to trip
depending on how much over current is put through them. If say a 20 amp
rated breaker has 22 amps going through it, it may take 30 minuets to trip.
If it has 25 amps, it may trip in 1 minuets. If it has 40 amps , it may
trip in less than a second. The exact trip curve will depend on the
breaker.

Well, my experience using a heavy duty thermal/magnetic breaker on a
low voltage DC application flys in the face of your knowledge.
The breaker in question has an adjustable magnetic (fast) trip and a
fixed thermal(slow) trip. On 24 and 48 volts 450 amps would not trip
the thermal trip in 2 minutes. I could adjust the magnetic to trip at
any current I wanted, from about 50 amps up - and it tripped very
reliably at that current on both 24 and 48 volts (DC).
On 120 volts 80 amps would trip the thermal in less than a minute.
This was a 3 phase breaker designed for use on a standard commercial 3
phase system (115/208/whatever) and was used in an electric car as the
main circuit protection.


I have no idea what breaker you are talking about and you don't say. If
it is a commercial unit it well may have a CT (current transformer) in
the sensing circuit for current. CTs are useless for DC. 3-phase
breakers are not rated for DC. You were using the breaker for a use it
was not intended and you don't know how it works.

And it tripped on 120x80 = 9600W AC in "less than a minute". It did not
trip on 48x450 = 21,600W DC in 2 minutes. How can you say this breaker
trips on watts?

"American residential breakers" (from your previous post) have a thermal
element in series with the contacts. In one variety of breaker, which
gfretwell has provided a nice picture of in this thread, the thermal
element is the "O/C device", which is plainly series connected. If it is
series connected it responds to current only. It is a bimetal strip that
is heated by the current. It is the same type of thermal element that is
series connected in "American residential breakers". It responds to
current, not power.

But who knows what happens north of the border.

--
bud--