Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates into
living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet. Since
the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on the
underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the concrete
footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If I
do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still wick up
the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just below where
the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to the top of the
soil?

james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my
crawlspace, there is still a strong musty smell in there that
sometimes migrates into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier
is moist but not wet. Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I
can see condensation on the underside of the vapor barrier at various
air pockets around the concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into
the crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or
around the posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace.
If I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water
still wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up
from just below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and
make it to the top of the soil?

Water vapor can come up through the soil, and condense at the vapor barrier,
whether the water "wicks up" or not. I wouldn't be surprised to find that that
alone would keep the soil damp. There's nowhere for the moisture to evaporate to
dry the soil.

james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet.
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise you need a sump pump. Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. That was very surprising to me.

On Dec 9, 9:55*pm, mike wrote:
james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet..
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise *you need a sump pump. *Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. *That was very surprising to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wicking = capilliary action. How high are trees? They work by
capilliary action.
All depends on the size of the soil particles.
The only real solution is ventilation but then you may need to
insulate the floor of your house depending on your local climate.

In ,
james typed:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my
crawlspace, there is still a strong musty smell in there
that sometimes migrates into living area. The soil under
the vapor barrier is moist but not wet. Since the vapor
barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on the
underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets
around the concrete footings.
Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is
released into the crawlspace via gaps between the vapor
barrier and the wall or around the posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the
crawlspace. If I do that, would it keep the top of the soil
dry, or would water still wick up the soil to the top? In
other words, can water wick up from just below where the
french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to the
top of the soil?

What did those contractors say? They've seen it; would know more than those
here who can't see it.

On Dec 11, 5:18*pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:43:42 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, mike wrote:
james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet.
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace.. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise you need a sump pump. Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. That was very surprising to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wicking = capilliary action. *How high are trees? *They work by
capilliary action.

Trees are a lot more complicated than that. *They use a series of essentially
check-valves to get water to the top (similar to veins in people's legs). It's
not simple capillary action.



All depends on the size of the soil particles.
The only real solution is ventilation but then you may need to
insulate the floor of your house depending on your local climate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no check valves in trees thhough there are i nviens. And if
there were how would it help as there is no pump/heart either?

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:52:02 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 11, 5:18*pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:43:42 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, mike wrote:
james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet.
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise you need a sump pump. Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. That was very surprising to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wicking = capilliary action. *How high are trees? *They work by
capilliary action.

Trees are a lot more complicated than that. *They use a series of essentially
check-valves to get water to the top (similar to veins in people's legs). It's
not simple capillary action.



All depends on the size of the soil particles.
The only real solution is ventilation but then you may need to
insulate the floor of your house depending on your local climate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no check valves in trees thhough there are i nviens.

You're wrong (as usual), whatever "i nviens" are.

And if
there were how would it help as there is no pump/heart either?

Shortens the effective column of water, cutting cavitation. There is a
"pump". It's called "photosynthesis". Capilliary action is only one of the
(smaller) forces going on here. The leaves contribute far more to lifting
water than the roots.

On Dec 12, 5:06*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:52:02 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:18 pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:43:42 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, mike wrote:
james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet.
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise you need a sump pump. Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. That was very surprising to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wicking = capilliary action. How high are trees? They work by
capilliary action.

Trees are a lot more complicated than that. They use a series of essentially
check-valves to get water to the top (similar to veins in people's legs). It's
not simple capillary action.

All depends on the size of the soil particles.
The only real solution is ventilation but then you may need to
insulate the floor of your house depending on your local climate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no check valves in trees *thhough there are i nviens.

You're wrong (as usual), whatever "i nviens" are.

And if
there were how would it help as there is no pump/heart either?

Shortens the effective column of water, cutting cavitation. *There is a
"pump". *It's called "photosynthesis". *Capilliary action is only one of the
(smaller) forces going on here. *The leaves contribute far more to lifting
water than the roots.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The leaves do it all chump. Evaporation(=solar power in this case.)
Photosynthesis is the business of converting CO2 to sugars etc using
sunlight
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpi...tension_theory

On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 09:39:43 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 12, 5:06*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:52:02 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 11, 5:18 pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:43:42 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:55 pm, mike wrote:
james wrote:
Even though there's a vapor barrier covering the dirt in my crawlspace,
there is still a strong musty smell in there that sometimes migrates
into living area. The soil under the vapor barrier is moist but not wet.
Since the vapor barrier is semi translucent, I can see condensation on
the underside of the vapor barrier at various air pockets around the
concrete footings.

Something could be brewing in those air pockets and is released into the
crawlspace via gaps between the vapor barrier and the wall or around the
posts.

Some contractors suggest installing a french drain in the crawlspace. If
I do that, would it keep the top of the soil dry, or would water still
wick up the soil to the top? In other words, can water wick up from just
below where the french drain is (probably 2 feet deep), and make it to
the top of the soil?

What's the humidity under the house?
Where's the water coming from?
Is it wetter on one end of the house than the other?
Probably easier to divert water around the structure
than under it.
For a french drain to work you have to have an output
port lower than the water level you're trying to achieve.
If you have that, you can probably divert around.
Otherwise you need a sump pump. Digging holes outside
oughta be much easier/cheaper than trying to do it
underneath.

I'd see if the city has a hydrologist you can consult.

As for your question, I can't provide a reference, but as I recall,
the wicking distance is soil composition dependent and can
easily reach 9 feet. That was very surprising to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wicking = capilliary action. How high are trees? They work by
capilliary action.

Trees are a lot more complicated than that. They use a series of essentially
check-valves to get water to the top (similar to veins in people's legs). It's
not simple capillary action.

All depends on the size of the soil particles.
The only real solution is ventilation but then you may need to
insulate the floor of your house depending on your local climate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no check valves in trees *thhough there are i nviens.

You're wrong (as usual), whatever "i nviens" are.

And if
there were how would it help as there is no pump/heart either?

Shortens the effective column of water, cutting cavitation. *There is a
"pump". *It's called "photosynthesis". *Capilliary action is only one of the
(smaller) forces going on here. *The leaves contribute far more to lifting
water than the roots.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The leaves do it all chump. Evaporation(=solar power in this case.)
Photosynthesis is the business of converting CO2 to sugars etc using
sunlight
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpi...tension_theory

Wrong. There are several forces at work, including capillary action.