When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

On Dec 2, 10:05*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

Disconnect the humidifier to see if it is causing the problem.

On Dec 2, 11:14*am, Red wrote:
On Dec 2, 10:05*am, Kyle wrote:





When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

Disconnect the humidifier to see if it is causing the problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




Does the furnace have any LEDs that light up on the control board to
indicate error conditions? If so, I'd start there. Also, I'd
determine which two wires the thermostat closes to call for heat,
remove the thermostat, and temporarily test it by connecting the wires
directly together. If the furnace starts and continues to run
normally, then you know it's the thermostat. If not, you've
eliminated the thermostat as the problem.

In article ,
"dadiOH" wrote:

Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

Just tell them the same thing you wrote here.

I had the "Gas valve" fail last year. Unit would call but fail to
deliver except for time but would run with cold air forever.

Good luck

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Daniel Moynihan and Dennis Kucinich in 2012 !

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:05:06 -0800 (PST), Kyle
wrote:



System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)

Check out the expected life of the heat exchanger.
Before you toss a few hundred here and a few hundred there at it,
see what it cost to have it replaced.
It's pretty old.

--Vic

On Dec 2, 10:05*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

I see you never had it checked out, it shouldnt have been shutting off
with the exhaust fan running last year. Time you called a pro to
clean and go over it.

On Dec 2, 11:05*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

That's the behavior of an overtemp safety device tripping somewhere.
They are not designed to be tripped continually so after a while they
trip easier and sometimes won't self reset.

Whenthe furnace is operating properly it will fire and run until the
thermostat stops calling for heat. You can confirm it is shutting
down prematurely by setting the thermostat at a very high point and
then watching the unit. If it starts up but then after a short period
turns off the burners and leaves the fan running then it's probably
the safety device.

There should be a schematic in the unit and you can identify the
safety devices. There may be more than one in series with the power
to the gas control. Best test is to check things with a meter.

There are any of a number of things that could be the problem. We
could play guess and miss for many group posts, and still not find out
the real cause. The only way I know to fix this, is to get a tech who
knows Trane equipment. In person, to look at the system while it's
running. Other than that, we'd just be guessing.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kyle" wrote in message
...
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran-I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating-and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year-the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

"Kyle" wrote in message
...


What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

This is a silly question. Don't you trust your HVAC tech?

On 12/2/10 11:05 AM, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.


I don't want that to happen to me, so I've been keeping an eye on my
heat exchanger. First I listen to the furnace, to hear if the flames
make an even roar. Then I start it with the cover off to see if the
flames look even and blue in the tubes.

Corrosion in a heat exchanger results in holes. They can make the
flames jump around. I believe that's called rollout. A temperature
sensor is supposed to shut off the gas before the house catches fire
from flames going where they don't belong. As holes in the heat
exchanger get bigger from year to year, that sensor could shut the
furnace off sooner.

Another sensor shuts off the gas in case of overheating. If that's the
one causing the shutdown, maybe for some reason your blower isn't
carrying the heat away fast enough.

My control board has a red light. If I see it flashing, I count the
flashes and look at the decal on the door to see what's wrong.

Kyle wrote:

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace
blew the motherboard on the furnace
We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace
and fix the motherboard problems.

My 34 year old furnace (lennox g8-120-1, manufactured October 1976) is
still working fine. It was original with the house. I really haven't
done any maintainence on it in the 10 years I've owned it.

It doesn't have a motherboard, or electronic ignition, or electronic
motor, or any ****ING electronic sensors.

Just thought I'd say that.

Enjoy your POS furnace. You and everyone else that has a motherboard in
their furnace.

Tom C wrote:
"Kyle" wrote in message
...


What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

This is a silly question. Don't you trust your HVAC tech?

I sure DON'T. I watched the idiot contractor install my furnace.
Had to get them back several times to fix things.
Reroute the gas connection so it didn't pull the ceiling down
cause they were too lazy to use the right length pipe the first time.
Several trips to fix leaks in the vent piping dripping water in
the attic. Dripped water inside the unit and killed the igniter.
Electrical work failed inspection. Still got drips I need to fix myself.
Ditto for the insulation contractors. Guy was first day on the job
and ripped out the insulation that they had put in two days earlier.
They taped it up. Had to make 'em redo it so it wouldn't let moisture in.
There may be a competent guy
in the organization, but he didn't work on my systems.

Had windows installed. They ordered windows too bug and
BROKE the house frame trying to make 'em fit.

All in all, I'm extremely lucky I had some leverage thru an
intermediary. If it had been just me, I'd have been SOL.

Don't EVER hire anybody to do anything you can possibly do yourself.
If you must hire someone, learn how to do it before hand and
WATCH them every step.

Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

Has anybody mentioned the obvious: Check the filter???
Verify that the air volume and temperature outa the vents seems reasonable?

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:01:24 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

Kyle wrote:

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace
blew the motherboard on the furnace
We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace
and fix the motherboard problems.

My 34 year old furnace (lennox g8-120-1, manufactured October 1976) is
still working fine. It was original with the house. I really haven't
done any maintainence on it in the 10 years I've owned it.

It doesn't have a motherboard, or electronic ignition, or electronic
motor, or any ****ING electronic sensors.

Just thought I'd say that.

Enjoy your POS furnace. You and everyone else that has a motherboard in
their furnace.
You still have that troublesome thermocouple, and a stack control,
and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally fail.
And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode, so
you are not out of the woods yet.

Mine was still good at 35 years - a few parts replaced, and I always
had a spare thermocouple hanging on a nail beside the furnace, as well
as a spare blower belt.

Replaced it about 7 years or so ago - figured I'd do it on MY time,
not when the furnace felt like it.

Opted for non-condensing figuring I had a better chance of it
outlasting me than if I had gotten the condensing version.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:53:22 -0800, mike wrote:

Tom C wrote:
"Kyle" wrote in message
...


What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

This is a silly question. Don't you trust your HVAC tech?

I sure DON'T. I watched the idiot contractor install my furnace.
Had to get them back several times to fix things.
Reroute the gas connection so it didn't pull the ceiling down
cause they were too lazy to use the right length pipe the first time.
Several trips to fix leaks in the vent piping dripping water in
the attic. Dripped water inside the unit and killed the igniter.
Electrical work failed inspection. Still got drips I need to fix myself.
Ditto for the insulation contractors. Guy was first day on the job
and ripped out the insulation that they had put in two days earlier.
They taped it up. Had to make 'em redo it so it wouldn't let moisture in.
There may be a competent guy
in the organization, but he didn't work on my systems.

Had windows installed. They ordered windows too bug and
BROKE the house frame trying to make 'em fit.

All in all, I'm extremely lucky I had some leverage thru an
intermediary. If it had been just me, I'd have been SOL.

Don't EVER hire anybody to do anything you can possibly do yourself.
If you must hire someone, learn how to do it before hand and
WATCH them every step.

Just out of curiosity, where do you live??
I know there are pockets around the country where you'd be better off
in a REAL third world country when it comes to getting things done!!

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:55:19 -0800, mike wrote:

Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran€”I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating€”and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year€”the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

Has anybody mentioned the obvious: Check the filter???
Verify that the air volume and temperature outa the vents seems reasonable?

Do a temp rise check across the heat exchanger too.

wrote:

Enjoy your POS furnace. You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.

You still have that troublesome thermocouple,

Of the 3 standing-pilot furnaces that I have first-hand experience with
in one way or another (with about 100 years of total service between
them) none has suffered a thermocouple problem.

and a stack control,

What's that?

and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally
fail.

For me - not yet.

And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode,
so you are not out of the woods yet.

A cracked heat exchanger is no big deal. Most people don't realize that
because of the air-pressure differential between the combustion-side and
the air-handling side of the heat exchanger, that a crack means that air
will leak *into* (not from) the combustion side. Which means CO can't
really leak into the conditioned side of the system.

Now if only these modern furnaces should live long enough to suffer
exchanger corrosion...

On Dec 2, 10:05*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. The programmable thermostat will call for a temperature
increase, the furnace will run for a few-to-several minutes, the temp
in the house will increase by 1-2° and then the heater will stop
without getting close to the target temp.

In the past the furnace has run for ~5 minutes and then shut down for
a cooling period while the exhaust fan still ran—I'm assuming that's
to keep the burners from overheating—and then fire back up to continue
to heat. But now the system just completely shuts down and doesn't
fire back up again for long periods of time, sometimes a couple hours.

Another symptom is that we have the thermostat set to 65° at night and
to come up to 70° at 6:45AM, but when we get up at 7AM the temperature
in the house has been 62°. Why would it be 3° colder than the minimum
overnight temp and 8° colder than what's called for?

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace (don't have the model # at hand)
Rite-Temp 6036 flush-mount programmable thermostat
We had an AprilAire whole-house humidifier installed by a friend (HVAC
guy) last year, and he blew the motherboard on the furnace installing
it. We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace and fix
the motherboard problems.
We didn't have this heating problem last year—the system worked just
fine.
Nothing has changed on the system since last year.
I hard-reset the thermostat and reprogrammed all the cycles, and it
still has the problem.

If it is the overheat sensor realise what can cause overheating and
ruin your unit,reuuced airflow from a clogged AC coil, poor or blocked
ducts, Closing off registers, a bad gas assembly allowing in to much
gas. The heat exchanger has a design temp range it can safely operate
at. Go higher than that temp and most exchangers fail fast. You start
by checking the AC coil to see if its clogged and air temp just above
the heat exchanger. If you never had it cleaned and checked out by a
pro now is a good time.

On Dec 3, 12:10*am, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:
Enjoy your POS furnace. *You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.
You still have that troublesome thermocouple,

Of the 3 standing-pilot furnaces that I have first-hand experience with
in one way or another (with about 100 years of total service between
them) none has suffered a thermocouple problem.

and a stack control,

What's that?

and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally
fail.

For me - not yet.

And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode,
so you are not out of the woods yet.

A cracked heat exchanger is no big deal. *Most people don't realize that
because of the air-pressure differential between the combustion-side and
the air-handling side of the heat exchanger, that a crack means that air
will leak *into* (not from) the combustion side. *Which means CO can't
really leak into the conditioned side of the system.

Now if only these modern furnaces should live long enough to suffer
exchanger corrosion...

What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace that
you're so proud of? Yes
new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports don't last as
long. But saving
$200 a year in fuel costs could make for a reasonable paybackm even at
today's energy costs,
which are almost certainly going higher in the future. Plus, with
the current
tax credits for high efficiency furnaces, if it were me, I'd be
replacing that furnace right now. Of
course a lot depends on where you're located climate wise, in terms of
what the payback
would be.

unnecessarily full-quoted:

Enjoy your POS furnace. You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.

What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace
that you're so proud of?

Because all you sheep are spending thousands on delicate new
computer-controlled furnaces with pathetically short life-spans, you're
using less natural gas, which is keeping the price of natural gas low,
so people like me with old furnaces can enjoy the benefit of low natural
gas prices because of all you suckers with expensive new furnaces.

Yes new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports
don't last as long. But saving $200 a year in fuel costs
could make for a reasonable paybackm even at today's energy
costs,

So you'll save $200 a year for 15 years, which is just enough coin to
pay for the next furnace which you'll need to do by then.

No thanks.

I sleep just fine knowing that some sensor or controller or electronic
motor isin't going to die on me at 1:30 AM on the coldest sunday morning
of the year.

On Dec 3, 8:48*am, Home Guy wrote:
unnecessarily full-quoted:

Enjoy your POS furnace. *You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.
What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace
that you're so proud of?

Because all you sheep are spending thousands on delicate new
computer-controlled furnaces with pathetically short life-spans, you're
using less natural gas, which is keeping the price of natural gas low,
so people like me with old furnaces can enjoy the benefit of low natural
gas prices because of all you suckers with expensive new furnaces.

Yes new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports
don't last as long. * *But saving $200 a year in fuel costs
could make for a reasonable paybackm even at today's energy
costs,

So you'll save $200 a year for 15 years, which is just enough coin to
pay for the next furnace which you'll need to do by then.

No thanks.

I sleep just fine knowing that some sensor or controller or electronic
motor isin't going to die on me at 1:30 AM on the coldest sunday morning
of the year.

Gas consumption hasnt gone down. My neighbor said he saved about 200
in a few months with a new unit, your statements are untrue. But your
unit may be very efficient, depending on its type if its maintained.

On Dec 2, 9:01*pm, Home Guy wrote:
Kyle wrote:
System info:
15 year old Trane gas furnace
blew the motherboard on the furnace
We've since had two HVAC people out to service the furnace
and fix the motherboard problems.

My 34 year old furnace (lennox g8-120-1, manufactured October 1976) is
still working fine. *It was original with the house. *I really haven't
done any maintainence on it in the 10 years I've owned it.

It doesn't have a motherboard, or electronic ignition, or electronic
motor, or any ****ING electronic sensors.

Just thought I'd say that.

Enjoy your POS furnace. *You and everyone else that has a motherboard in
their furnace.

Rant all you want, but you can't put a 34 (or 54) year-old furnace in
a house that was built in 1995. So unless you have something
constructive to add, I don't really want to hear about your furnace.

And for the record: in my last house we replaced the furnace when it
was 54 years old only because we couldn't get the parts to repair it.
At the time, the air conditioner unit on it was the same age as me
(40), and we only replaced that because it was cheaper than waiting
for it to go up and having to pay for two separate installations.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 05:08:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 3, 12:10Â*am, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:
Enjoy your POS furnace. Â*You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.
You still have that troublesome thermocouple,

Of the 3 standing-pilot furnaces that I have first-hand experience with
in one way or another (with about 100 years of total service between
them) none has suffered a thermocouple problem.

and a stack control,

What's that?

and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally
fail.

For me - not yet.

And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode,
so you are not out of the woods yet.

A cracked heat exchanger is no big deal. Â*Most people don't realize that
because of the air-pressure differential between the combustion-side and
the air-handling side of the heat exchanger, that a crack means that air
will leak *into* (not from) the combustion side. Â*Which means CO can't
really leak into the conditioned side of the system.

Now if only these modern furnaces should live long enough to suffer
exchanger corrosion...

What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace that
you're so proud of? Yes
new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports don't last as
long. But saving
$200 a year in fuel costs could make for a reasonable paybackm even at
today's energy costs,
which are almost certainly going higher in the future. Plus, with
the current
tax credits for high efficiency furnaces, if it were me, I'd be
replacing that furnace right now. Of
course a lot depends on where you're located climate wise, in terms of
what the payback
would be.
To save $200 a year on heat you would need to increase the efficiency
of my furnace by about 25% - and I don't mean incremental - like it's
80% now so you need to increase it by 25% (25% of 80) to 100% - I mean
it's 80% now, you need to go to (80+25+)105%

Ain't gonna happen in this world. And mine is better than 80%.

Last year heat (including water heater) was about $700.

On Dec 2, 7:06*pm, "Tom C" wrote:
"Kyle" wrote in message

...

What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

This is a silly question. Don't you trust your HVAC tech?

Not yet; not 'til they have a proven track record. This is the third
different HVAC company we've called - the first one blew the
motherboard installing the whole-house humidifier and never completed
the job (they didn't get paid, natch). The second one was a guy who'd
been donating his time and work to Habitat For Humanity, but who
turned out to be unreliable.

This one has been personally recommended by a friend who's used the
company for years, but I still want to be reasonably not-stupid when
talking to the tech who comes.

On Dec 2, 9:55*pm, mike wrote:
Has anybody mentioned the obvious: Check the filter???
Verify that the air volume and temperature outa the vents seems reasonable?

Nope, and you're right: I neglected to mention that we had recently
changed the filter, and when the furnace comes on, air is moving out
of all vents well. Temperature is acceptable - neither cool nor too
hot - when air is moving. It's just getting the frelling furnace to
fire up that's the issue.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 09:48:05 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

unnecessarily full-quoted:


I sleep just fine knowing that some sensor or controller or electronic
motor isin't going to die on me at 1:30 AM on the coldest sunday morning
of the year.

Pretty much agree with what you've said.
I never had a thermocouple fail in the decades I had them.
Never had a furnace fail to light and heat.
The "new" furnace I had put in 13 years ago (Rheem) failed multiple
times, once because the igniter failed, which can be quickly remedied
if you keep a spare on hand. It's a 6 buck item on mine.
Same could be said of a thermocouple.

The other times were caused by a flaky motherboard, and I always got
it started by cleaning the flame sensor, though that was probably a
motherboard related fluke too.
Since the motherboard failed with a sticking fan relay and I had a new
motherboard put in a few years ago there hasn't been a glitch with
anything and I haven't touched the flame sensor.
But he put in a the new flame sensor that came with the motherboard.

Besides it being almost the coldest day of year, the first time mine
failed was on Christmas Eve!
Lots of cursing about the furnace.

Anyway, I had this one put in, replacing the original pilot
light/theromocouple furnace because I went to central air and had to
replace the old one because of that. Went with an 85%, mostly because
I was told the higher efficiency furnaces were even more prone to
failure.

I recommended the OP think about replacing his furnace because it
already has the motherboard and sensors, and is 15 years old.
It's an option to think about if he can get good HVAC advice.
But I didn't know what you said about cracked heat exchangers and
carbon monoxide, since I had drunk the Kool-aid on that.
So I kind of take that part back, though if you *do* have a leaky heat
exchanger there's reasons to think about replacing the furnace.

When I had the motherboard replaced I asked the HVAC guy about getting
the evap coils cleaned. He said something like "If the A/C is working
like it always has been, it's not worth getting in the plenum to clean
them. Wait until it's a problem."

--Vic

On Dec 2, 11:05*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. [snip]
What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

To update on the advice people have suggested:

I think I can pretty much rule out thermostat issues. Got up this
morning - 60.5 degrees when the thermostat is calling for 70, and no
furnace action. I took the covers off the side to see if there was any
obvious issues, and pretty much not knowing what to look for put the
covers back on. As soon as the lower cover tripped the switch (that
prevents the furnace from firing up while the cover is off) the
furnace immediately began its pre-heat cycle (fan to clear the air cap
in the stack, glow of the ignitor, etc.), fired up and brought the
house up to temp.

Weird. I don't know what re-set, but it's been fine all morning and
afternoon (working from home today).

On Dec 3, 2:14*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 05:08:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 3, 12:10*am, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:
Enjoy your POS furnace. *You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.
You still have that troublesome thermocouple,

Of the 3 standing-pilot furnaces that I have first-hand experience with
in one way or another (with about 100 years of total service between
them) none has suffered a thermocouple problem.

and a stack control,

What's that?

and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally
fail.

For me - not yet.

And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode,
so you are not out of the woods yet.

A cracked heat exchanger is no big deal. *Most people don't realize that
because of the air-pressure differential between the combustion-side and
the air-handling side of the heat exchanger, that a crack means that air
will leak *into* (not from) the combustion side. *Which means CO can't
really leak into the conditioned side of the system.

Now if only these modern furnaces should live long enough to suffer
exchanger corrosion...

What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace that
you're so proud of? * *Yes
new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports don't last as
long. * *But saving
$200 a year in fuel costs could make for a reasonable paybackm even at
today's energy costs,
which are almost certainly going higher in the future. * *Plus, with
the current
tax credits for high efficiency furnaces, if it were me, I'd be
replacing that furnace right now. *Of
course a lot depends on where you're located climate wise, in terms of
what the payback
would be.

*To save $200 a year on heat you would need to increase the efficiency
of my furnace by about 25% - and I don't mean incremental - like it's
80% now so you need to increase it by 25% (25% of 80) to 100% - I mean
it's 80% now, you need to go to (80+25+)105%

Ain't gonna happen in this world. And mine is better than 80%.

Last year heat (including water heater) was about $700.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The $200 a year in fuel savings was predicated on Home alone Guys 34
year old furnace, built in 1976, which he holds so dear. It has
nothing to do with your furnace, unless you think it's likely a
furnace built in 1976 is getting over 80% efficiancy like yours.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:25:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 3, 2:14Â*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 05:08:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 3, 12:10Â*am, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:
Enjoy your POS furnace. Â*You and everyone else that has a
motherboard in their furnace.
You still have that troublesome thermocouple,

Of the 3 standing-pilot furnaces that I have first-hand experience with
in one way or another (with about 100 years of total service between
them) none has suffered a thermocouple problem.

and a stack control,

What's that?

and a high limit switch - all of which can and do occaisionally
fail.

For me - not yet.

And you still have ONE heat exchanger that can crack or corrode,
so you are not out of the woods yet.

A cracked heat exchanger is no big deal. Â*Most people don't realize that
because of the air-pressure differential between the combustion-side and
the air-handling side of the heat exchanger, that a crack means that air
will leak *into* (not from) the combustion side. Â*Which means CO can't
really leak into the conditioned side of the system.

Now if only these modern furnaces should live long enough to suffer
exchanger corrosion...

What do you think the efficiency is of that 34 year old furnace that
you're so proud of? Â* Â*Yes
new furnaces are more complicated and from most reports don't last as
long. Â* Â*But saving
$200 a year in fuel costs could make for a reasonable paybackm even at
today's energy costs,
which are almost certainly going higher in the future. Â* Â*Plus, with
the current
tax credits for high efficiency furnaces, if it were me, I'd be
replacing that furnace right now. Â*Of
course a lot depends on where you're located climate wise, in terms of
what the payback
would be.

Â*To save $200 a year on heat you would need to increase the efficiency
of my furnace by about 25% - and I don't mean incremental - like it's
80% now so you need to increase it by 25% (25% of 80) to 100% - I mean
it's 80% now, you need to go to (80+25+)105%

Ain't gonna happen in this world. And mine is better than 80%.

Last year heat (including water heater) was about $700.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The $200 a year in fuel savings was predicated on Home alone Guys 34
year old furnace, built in 1976, which he holds so dear. It has
nothing to do with your furnace, unless you think it's likely a
furnace built in 1976 is getting over 80% efficiancy like yours.
I replaced my 35 year old furnace with the one I have now about 7
years ago, and my gis bill didn't change at all. I did save some on
the hydro bill.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:22:49 -0800 (PST), Kyle
wrote:

On Dec 2, 11:05Â*am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. [snip]
What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

To update on the advice people have suggested:

I think I can pretty much rule out thermostat issues. Got up this
morning - 60.5 degrees when the thermostat is calling for 70, and no
furnace action. I took the covers off the side to see if there was any
obvious issues, and pretty much not knowing what to look for put the
covers back on. As soon as the lower cover tripped the switch (that
prevents the furnace from firing up while the cover is off) the
furnace immediately began its pre-heat cycle (fan to clear the air cap
in the stack, glow of the ignitor, etc.), fired up and brought the
house up to temp.

Weird. I don't know what re-set, but it's been fine all morning and
afternoon (working from home today).

Perhaps the lower cover was loose and vibration was tripping the
switch?? Stranger things have happened.

"Kyle" wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 11:05 am, Kyle wrote:
When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. [snip]
What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

To update on the advice people have suggested:

I think I can pretty much rule out thermostat issues. Got up this
morning - 60.5 degrees when the thermostat is calling for 70, and no
furnace action. I took the covers off the side to see if there was any
obvious issues, and pretty much not knowing what to look for put the
covers back on. As soon as the lower cover tripped the switch (that
prevents the furnace from firing up while the cover is off) the
furnace immediately began its pre-heat cycle (fan to clear the air cap
in the stack, glow of the ignitor, etc.), fired up and brought the
house up to temp.

Weird. I don't know what re-set, but it's been fine all morning and
afternoon (working from home today).


My evil side forces me to ask this:

Do you have to remove that lower cover to change the filter?

Colbyt

On Dec 2, 11:05 am, Kyle wrote:
[snip]
I took the covers off the side to see if there was any
obvious issues, and pretty much not knowing what to look for put the
covers back on. As soon as the lower cover tripped the switch (that
prevents the furnace from firing up while the cover is off) the
furnace immediately began its pre-heat cycle (fan to clear the air cap
in the stack, glow of the ignitor, etc.), fired up and brought the
house up to temp.

Weird. I don't know what re-set, but it's been fine all morning and
afternoon (working from home today).

On Dec 3, 6:01*pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
My evil side forces me to ask this:

Do you have to remove that lower cover to change the filter?

Doesn't sound evil…it would be perfectly logical to assume that the
filter could be clogged enough to overheat the unit and cause it to
shut-down (or whatever the HVAC term is for an hours-long standby) and
that the cover switch could reset that.

But, no, the filter is on the side of the unit where the cold air
return duct enters the furnace.

Furnace is back to acting up again, but I've taken notes from what
people have said here, and will ask the tech when he comes tomorrow
morning (when it's 61° and the thermostat is blinking angrily,
demanding 70°).

If the furnace is over heating, opening the cover may let in a rush of
cold cellar air. If the air filter is clogged, that rush of cold air
may cooled a limit switch of some kind. Sounds more like the board
locked out, due to some kind of safety switch action. Opening the door
shut off the power to the board, and reset the electronics.

You did inspect and replace the filter?

Please keep the appointment. Sounds like something is wrong, and needs
a service tech to repair it.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kyle" wrote in message
...

Doesn't sound evil.it would be perfectly logical to assume that the
filter could be clogged enough to overheat the unit and cause it to
shut-down (or whatever the HVAC term is for an hours-long standby) and
that the cover switch could reset that.

But, no, the filter is on the side of the unit where the cold air
return duct enters the furnace.

Furnace is back to acting up again, but I've taken notes from what
people have said here, and will ask the tech when he comes tomorrow
morning (when it's 61° and the thermostat is blinking angrily,
demanding 70°).

You realize this is a problem from three years ago? And that the words
in question are "before" and "you". Please spend some money on a
remedial English class.

The Homeowners Hub site is not a help forum.
It's an *advertising* forum that invades real
forums (like "alt.home.repair", part of
"usenet") parasitically in order to generate
free advertising for itself, which continually
advances its search engine placement, thereby
increasing its own revenue through its click-
through advertising commissions.

So the first thing you should do is write them
an email and tell them to quit spamming.

Then try to find your way here through proper
channels. Please do a google search on "Usenet"
and post the regular way.



--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"egonzo50" wrote in message
roups.com...
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-607727-.htm
egonzo50 wrote:
I'm not an expert service agent nor do I claim to be. I hope my story
will
help and I hope I got to you b4
u spent

Resolution!

Despite the fact he posted from the spamming site, one of the last to
reply to this thread (he shall remain nameless so as not to encourage
the parasites of Homeowners Hub) actually was onto the solution.

The HVAC company sent out another tech who checked the draft valve
diaphragm (is that the right term?) that detects if the stack has a
draft. It seemed to be OK, but he thought the hose might have been a
bit loose. The second thing he checked was the flame sensor, which had
some significant carbon build-up. He cleaned it with some ultra-fine
grit sandpaper (if you do this yourself, do not use anything below 200
grit!) and everything is peachy, er, toasty again!

The good news is that the tech said this should have been done when
the previous tech had done a service cleaning, so there was no charge
for this service call.

The better news is that he taught me a few things about the furnace,
and I'm planning on having one of the newer silicon hot surface
ignitors on-hand for when my current ignitor cracks, as it will
inevitably do, so that I can take care of the problem myself!

Thanks to all who posted for your suggestions and feedback!

On Dec 3, 2:22*pm, Kyle wrote:
On Dec 2, 11:05*am, Kyle wrote:

When the weather here in the mid-Atlantic turned cold in the last
month, we began experiencing a problem in our house we didn't have
last year. [snip]
What I need is advice on what the HVAC people should be looking for
when they come out.

To update on the advice people have suggested:

I think I can pretty much rule out thermostat issues. Got up this
morning - 60.5 degrees when the thermostat is calling for 70, and no
furnace action. I took the covers off the side to see if there was any
obvious issues, and pretty much not knowing what to look for put the
covers back on. As soon as the lower cover tripped the switch (that
prevents the furnace from firing up while the cover is off) the
furnace immediately began its pre-heat cycle (fan to clear the air cap
in the stack, glow of the ignitor, etc.), fired up and brought the
house up to temp.

Weird. I don't know what re-set, but it's been fine all morning and
afternoon (working from home today).

I'm sure someone already covered this, but I've had this happen to me
a few times. What I think is happening is that the furnace doesn't
actually light when the thermostat calls for heat, and after three
cycles of not lighting it shuts off. Might be a dirty flame sensor,
but I actually suspect that it is an insufficiently shielded intake or
exhaust pipe that is allowing wind to actually "blow out" the flame.
Seems to only happen to me in very windy weather, and maybe only once
a year.

nate