For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for sure.

On Nov 14, 4:05*pm, Red Green wrote:
For your Sunday reading...

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...e-upgrades-mor...

Only true if you define value as what you get after resale the home.
You put in a new kitchen mostly because you are tired of looking at
the old kitchen, not to turn a big profit.

Jimmie

On 11/14/2010 5:16 PM, JIMMIE wrote:
On Nov 14, 4:05 pm, Red wrote:
For your Sunday reading...

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...e-upgrades-mor...

Only true if you define value as what you get after resale the home.
You put in a new kitchen mostly because you are tired of looking at
the old kitchen, not to turn a big profit.

Jimmie

Dollar value at resale isn't the only criteria- it is being able to sell
it at all. As it sits right now, maybe a single guy might buy my place,
but a woman is gonna want to keep looking. (It sat empty for 6? months
before I bought it, and Mrs. previous owner made her husband accept my
low-ball offer.) And since the place has 3 bedrooms, the odds of a
single guy buying it are pretty slim. So, at some point, I'm gonna have
to throw enough money to at least make it presentable. Nothing fancy,
just presentable.

--
aem sends....

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

What do you know. All that writing, and they finally put the important
stuff in the last paragraph.

Go figger.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 11/14/2010 5:33 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Red wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

What do you know. All that writing, and they finally put the important
stuff in the last paragraph.

Go figger.

Steve


Yeah, true. Not much new here.
In today's housing market, if your house is not in perfect repair or
needs serious upgrades, it will be very difficult to sell and DYI stuff
like painting will reap rewards.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.
You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

--
Bobby G.


*Second worst bunch of words in the English language: "They're saying their
chair isn't there." They're just as bad as the twos! Why have three
"there/they're/their's", three "to/two/toos" and two "its/its" that you
can't tell from one another without having to think about it?

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:01:55 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for sure.

Amen. I've been here 25years or so & haven't stopped making it the
way *we* like it. I have never given a thought to resale value.

Jim

"Robert Green" wrote:
-snip-

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.
You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

That's my plan. Probably while completing one of the 20 or so
projects I juggle. The kids are welcome to sell it, live in it, or
burn it to the ground. I've gotten my money's worth.

Jim

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove


Most of the regulars have already made very valid points. I will just add a
cynical observation.


Who were these idiots kidding all along when they spent way more borrowed
money than they had to do overpriced "improvements" in honor of the resale
Goddess?

Make your home comfortable for yourself but I think you should always use a
little common sense. A 50K kitchen remodel in a neighborhood of 50-60K
homes is not using good common sense. It might be justifiable if you plan to
live there until you die and love cooking but don't kid yourself it is money
spent, not money invested. Do keep in mind I speaking of current value, not
what you paid ages ago. I did a 12K kitchen remodel on my in-laws home many
years ago (1987). We all laughed about it because they only paid 15K for
the house in 1952 or 53. The new kitchen and appliance cost almost as much
as the house.

They enjoyed it together for a few years and my FIL still enjoys it today.

If you spend money you have or will shortly have then do as you please.
Borrowing the money can become a disaster.

Off the soapbox, throw money not rocks.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:33:34 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

What do you know. All that writing, and they finally put the important
stuff in the last paragraph.

Dunno, the second to the last was good, too, but I especially like the $226K
master suite. The second idiot was the second one who bought it for $125K.

Go figger.

Indeed.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:12:04 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

SWMBO watches those shows all the time. I've not seen *one* where the alleged
increase (I like that phrase) came in at 100% or more. Most do come from "I
don't care what it's worth now - we did it for us" attitude.

You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

Not me. We'll likely move at least once, again, and perhaps twice, in the
next five or ten years. We moved here two years ago and I don't see retiring
here. Maybe not far, but not here.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote:
-snip-

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are
disappointed.
You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more
people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

That's my plan. Probably while completing one of the 20 or so
projects I juggle. The kids are welcome to sell it, live in it, or
burn it to the ground. I've gotten my money's worth.

I've found the more people adapt their houses to their own personal tastes,
the more reluctant they seem to leave it (looks in the mirror). I don't plan
to die here, but life may have other plans. I have stayed longer than I
wanted to because of so many things I've added and the wretched economy.

--
Bobby G.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:01:55 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for
sure.

Amen. I've been here 25years or so & haven't stopped making it the
way *we* like it. I have never given a thought to resale value.

Well, I have, as in mostly "This is going to hurt the resale value, but so
f'ing what?" (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 11/14/2010 5:33 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Red wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

What do you know. All that writing, and they finally put the important
stuff in the last paragraph.

Go figger.

Steve


Yeah, true. Not much new here.
In today's housing market, if your house is not in perfect repair or
needs serious upgrades, it will be very difficult to sell and DYI stuff
like painting will reap rewards.

What I am seeing in my neighborhood is that the real cheap fixer uppers are
the ones that have broken the logjam of unsold homes. Investors and out of
work carpenters teaming up in one case.

--
Bobby G.

Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:05:40 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove


I don't understand how they come up with these numbers. They are,
I suspect, guesses and based more on anecdotal evidence than anything
else.

Let me use my own house as an example. We just renovated our
kitchen, family room and three bathrooms. Cost was 50 thousand.
I'm a builder .. retail would have been something like 70 thousand.

Howwould they figure how much value we added. The value of a house
is what it sells for -- willing seller, willing buyer and all that --
not what a bank or an appraiser or an assessor or some self appointed
Yahoo! writer might think it is worth.

Therefore I cannot say what the house would have sold for prior to the
renos, and I cannot say what the house will sell for after the renos
because it is not for sale.

Since money has a time value, how do they assign a value to how
quickly a house would sell -- since it wasn't for sale before and
isn't for sale after?

To me, this is just morecrap based on half assed research intended
to sell magazines ... a friend used to own a bunch of newspapers; he
always said content was important only to keep the ads separated.
Same as HGTV's so-called content. And same as this nonsense.


Ken in Calgary

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:12:04 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.
You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

Oddly enough, that's what I thought until yesterday.
Mostly because of my wife's feelings.
Then we got our RE tax bill.
38% increase. Cook county, Illinois.
Things change.
Even my wife's feelings. She is ****ed.
Me too, but I see a silver lining.
And Florida skies.

--Vic

In article ,
Vic Smith wrote:

And Florida skies.

Be very afraid of Florida. Their RE taxes are more based on the
outcomes from a random number generator than anything else. The biggest
being that they capped increases for those livingin their homes.
However, when that house is sold, the property taxes are "caught up", so
last years property tax for the owner could very well be 10% or even 50%
or more less than what you would spend. And this is just the idiocy that
is easiest to explain.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Nov 15, 6:39*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
*Vic Smith wrote:

And Florida skies.

* *Be very afraid of Florida. Their RE taxes are more based on the
outcomes from a random number generator than anything else. The biggest
being that they capped increases for those livingin their homes.
However, when that house is sold, the property taxes are "caught up", so
last years property tax for the owner could very well be 10% or even 50%
or more less than what you would spend. And this is just the idiocy that
is easiest to explain.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
*---PJ O'Rourke

a realtor near kissimee told me some years ago.

homes were taxed at 1% of retail value, primary residences get a 25%
discount.

So a $100,000 homes tax was $1000, less $250 for primary residence.

$750 bucks, around pittsburgh its about 3 grand plus florida has no
state income tax....

wrote in message
...
Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:05:40 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove


I don't understand how they come up with these numbers. They are,
I suspect, guesses and based more on anecdotal evidence than anything
else.

They come up with them using facts, and not asking people whether or not
they like their remodel and think it's worth it. To me, it sounds like
someone whining about how you paid too much for your car, and it's not any
good, and you were a fool to buy it, even though you love riding around in
it, how it drives, and how you look to your envious neighbor. It's all
numbers, and I don't see any statements from people who have remodeled. I
like it, what's THEIR problem?


Let me use my own house as an example. We just renovated our
kitchen, family room and three bathrooms. Cost was 50 thousand.
I'm a builder .. retail would have been something like 70 thousand.

Similar experience, and doing a three room remodel right now, only using
less money. Trading out a lot of stuff, but still doing it in granite, new
tile, texture, knocking out walls, putting in headers to open up the space,
new cabinets, and appliances.

Howwould they figure how much value we added. The value of a house
is what it sells for -- willing seller, willing buyer and all that --
not what a bank or an appraiser or an assessor or some self appointed
Yahoo! writer might think it is worth.

You can find facts to support any conclusion. Sounds like the story was
made up before they went out and got any figures.

Therefore I cannot say what the house would have sold for prior to the
renos, and I cannot say what the house will sell for after the renos
because it is not for sale.

And you, if like me, like them just the way they are. We have two in Las
Vegas, and when we to there on business, we usually stay there unless rented
out on vacation rental basis. See them at www.vrbo.com numbers 19554 and
113164. The second is the one with the major renovation, starting at the
kitchen, which was $40k. I love going there on business. Feels like I'm at
home. ;-) They were listed at the start of the downfall at $ 1 million for
the two, and we didn't care if we sold them or not, as they are cash cows.

A lot of people don't care if they sell their houses, because they like
them. A lot of people don't care if they only break even on a renovation
because they get to enjoy it. It is only if you are trying to flip a house
and make some money that you have to crunch the numbers, and in today's
market unless you almost get the house for free, there's not a lot of wiggle
room.


Since money has a time value, how do they assign a value to how
quickly a house would sell -- since it wasn't for sale before and
isn't for sale after?

Again, it's someone who's obviously been to college and educated beyond
their capacity prattling on about their impression of the real world.


To me, this is just morecrap based on half assed research intended
to sell magazines ... a friend used to own a bunch of newspapers; he
always said content was important only to keep the ads separated.
Same as HGTV's so-called content. And same as this nonsense.

See above paragraph.

Ken in Calgary

And keep those numbers, and go to vrbo and look at my remodeling skills.
Mention this newsgroup, and we'll give you a discount. IF you pay cash, of
course. ;-)

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:12:04 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and pleasure
with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of course, I plan to
live here until I die. If it works out that way, I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.
You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there are a lot more people
planning to die in their current home then there* used to be. Show of
hands?

Oddly enough, that's what I thought until yesterday.
Mostly because of my wife's feelings.
Then we got our RE tax bill.
38% increase. Cook county, Illinois.
Things change.
Even my wife's feelings. She is ****ed.
Me too, but I see a silver lining.
And Florida skies.

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in Eastern
Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent bill was
$1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way I was going to
retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to own my house. I might as
well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont sucks just as badly as the
politics.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

I didn't read the article but it's what realtors have already told me. Make
the house look like the new owners can do with it what they want to. If you
have siding, roofing or painting issues deal with those, but renovations are
usually a waste of time and money.

There are exceptions. I redid the floors in my old house and it did make my
house more sellable. I don't think it drastically raised the price but it
probably did make the house sell a little faster. I didn't spend much money
because I did the work myself. I just took up the carpet and sanded and
refinished the existing wood floors.

Do all the cheap things, but save the major renovations for the new owners.
Don't try and second guess what they want to do with their new house.

There is a house down the street from my house for sale I could have ready
to sell in a couple of weeks but it's going to sit for along time and it
just needs new siding and a fence fixed. Simple stuff like that is a no
brainer. It's a shame because it's a nice house and they are asking well
below market.

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in
Eastern
Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent bill was
$1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way I was going
to
retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to own my house. I
might as
well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont sucks just as badly as the
politics.

Would that be on a house of the same value both places?

Or did you manage to buy a comparable house for less money?

Most places tax on the actual value and I have heard the NE is one of the
highest. Here it is about 10.50 per 1000 of valuation and I consider that
onerous. Old-timers get to whack 20K off the assessed value. Whoopee!

Colbyt

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:36:14 -0500, "Colbyt"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in
Eastern
Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent bill was
$1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way I was going
to
retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to own my house. I
might as
well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont sucks just as badly as the
politics.

Would that be on a house of the same value both places?

Almost identical (within a half percent).

Or did you manage to buy a comparable house for less money?

Same money, far more house. It's about 50% larger (2600ft^2 vs. 1700ft^2), an
additional bathroom, and far more features. No basement. :-(

Most places tax on the actual value and I have heard the NE is one of the
highest. Here it is about 10.50 per 1000 of valuation and I consider that
onerous. Old-timers get to whack 20K off the assessed value. Whoopee!

Indeed. It's about .5% here. That includes a 50% "homestead deduction" for
owner-occupied housing. A second home would then be double, but that's still
only half of $6K.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:33:00 -0600, "JimT" wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

I didn't read the article but it's what realtors have already told me. Make
the house look like the new owners can do with it what they want to. If you
have siding, roofing or painting issues deal with those, but renovations are
usually a waste of time and money.

Agreed. Landscaping, particularly in the front, makes it more saleable. Any
money put into selling should go into exactly what you say; make it look like
new.

There are exceptions. I redid the floors in my old house and it did make my
house more sellable. I don't think it drastically raised the price but it
probably did make the house sell a little faster. I didn't spend much money
because I did the work myself. I just took up the carpet and sanded and
refinished the existing wood floors.

Concur. We redid the vinyl flooring in the downstairs hallways,
kitchen-dining room, with bamboo. I replaced all the crappy floors in the
bathrooms with tile (though I did most of that before deciding to sell) and
had the house recarpeted just before we sold. I also went through the house
and pulled down all the woodwork and doors, restained and replaced what was
bad, and put it all back up. I wasn't working (retired, though not
permanently), so had some time. All in all, I put perhaps 10K into the
house the two years before selling it. All of it I would have done if we
hadn't sold, though perhaps not with the same materials on the same time line.
Do all the cheap things, but save the major renovations for the new owners.
Don't try and second guess what they want to do with their new house.

Paint is cheap. Paint a neural color - make it look new. They can paint it
black.

There is a house down the street from my house for sale I could have ready
to sell in a couple of weeks but it's going to sit for along time and it
just needs new siding and a fence fixed. Simple stuff like that is a no
brainer. It's a shame because it's a nice house and they are asking well
below market.

Are they in a bind financially? Can they have the work done, or are they (and
their agent) just clueless?

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:33:00 -0600, "JimT" wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

I didn't read the article but it's what realtors have already told me.
Make
the house look like the new owners can do with it what they want to. If
you
have siding, roofing or painting issues deal with those, but renovations
are
usually a waste of time and money.

Agreed. Landscaping, particularly in the front, makes it more saleable.
Any
money put into selling should go into exactly what you say; make it look
like
new.

There are exceptions. I redid the floors in my old house and it did make
my
house more sellable. I don't think it drastically raised the price but it
probably did make the house sell a little faster. I didn't spend much
money
because I did the work myself. I just took up the carpet and sanded and
refinished the existing wood floors.

Concur. We redid the vinyl flooring in the downstairs hallways,
kitchen-dining room, with bamboo. I replaced all the crappy floors in the
bathrooms with tile (though I did most of that before deciding to sell)
and
had the house recarpeted just before we sold. I also went through the
house
and pulled down all the woodwork and doors, restained and replaced what
was
bad, and put it all back up. I wasn't working (retired, though not
permanently), so had some time. All in all, I put perhaps 10K into the
house the two years before selling it. All of it I would have done if we
hadn't sold, though perhaps not with the same materials on the same time
line.
Do all the cheap things, but save the major renovations for the new
owners.
Don't try and second guess what they want to do with their new house.

Paint is cheap. Paint a neural color - make it look new. They can paint
it
black.

There is a house down the street from my house for sale I could have ready
to sell in a couple of weeks but it's going to sit for along time and it
just needs new siding and a fence fixed. Simple stuff like that is a no
brainer. It's a shame because it's a nice house and they are asking well
below market.

Are they in a bind financially? Can they have the work done, or are they
(and
their agent) just clueless?

My guess is they moved and just left the house the way it is. This street
has a few rentals. May have been a rental and now the owner wants to sell.

I agree totally on the front yard. Also the main entry doors are something
everyone sees and touches. Cheap to fix and/or replace.

Jim

Red Green wrote:
For your Sunday reading...


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

Hmm.

I can think of a couple of "home improvements" that WILL add more to the
sale of a house.

1. Trees. A smallish tree can be had for $25. As it grows it increases in
value.

2. Insulation. It not only adds value to the house, but, pays back the owner
the longer between adding it and selling the house.

Most of us are somewhat handy and little things - for relatively little
cost - can add to the overall value. For example, my 4-car garage came with
one garage door opener. Diligently watching Craigslist yielded one more for
free (needing a $17 gear) and another for $50. I'm still looking for the
fourth.

I replaced a crummy enameled kitchen sink with a stainless one (with faucet
and flexible washer) for a mere $15.

And so on.

Many times it's the little things, and attention to detail, that can make a
house a great attraction.

On 11/14/2010 3:12 PM, Robert Green wrote:

snip

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

There are very few people that believe that the costs of renovations or
remodeling are recouped at sale time. Everyone's always worried that
there is this legion of dumb people out there that's pouring money into
their homes with the idea that it's driving up the value of their home
by more than the cost of the work. That legion of people doesn't exist.
Maybe a few clueless people believe it, but not legions.

It does seem to pay off to fix the biggest turn-offs to buyers. We got a
good deal on our house because the previous owner opened a wall in the
shower to fix a leaky pipe and just left the wall open. It was just a
turn-off to buyers and to put a wall back would be easy.

In article ,
SMS wrote:

On 11/14/2010 3:12 PM, Robert Green wrote:

snip

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

There are very few people that believe that the costs of renovations or
remodeling are recouped at sale time. Everyone's always worried that
there is this legion of dumb people out there that's pouring money into
their homes with the idea that it's driving up the value of their home
by more than the cost of the work. That legion of people doesn't exist.
Maybe a few clueless people believe it, but not legions.

It does seem to pay off to fix the biggest turn-offs to buyers. We got a
good deal on our house because the previous owner opened a wall in the
shower to fix a leaky pipe and just left the wall open. It was just a
turn-off to buyers and to put a wall back would be easy.

An exception:

I don't know whether it's a new show, or one that's been around a while
and I just ran across it, but I did see a show where the remodeling
focused on creating a rental apt. within the house. Adding a $1000
monthly income out of thin air increases the value of a house to the
current owner (and the future owner if he chooses to continue to rent
it) by far more than the renovation cost.

On Nov 16, 1:10*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*SMS wrote:
On 11/14/2010 3:12 PM, Robert Green wrote:

snip

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

There are very few people that believe that the costs of renovations or
remodeling are recouped at sale time. Everyone's always worried that
there is this legion of dumb people out there that's pouring money into
their homes with the idea that it's driving up the value of their home
by more than the cost of the work. That legion of people doesn't exist.
Maybe a few clueless people believe it, but not legions.

It does seem to pay off to fix the biggest turn-offs to buyers. We got a
good deal on our house because the previous owner opened a wall in the
shower to fix a leaky pipe and just left the wall open. It was just a
turn-off to buyers and to put a wall back would be easy.

An exception:

I don't know whether it's a new show, or one that's been around a while
and I just ran across it, but I did see a show where the remodeling
focused on creating a rental apt. within the house. Adding a $1000
monthly income out of thin air increases the value of a house to the
current owner (and the future owner if he chooses to continue to rent
it) by far more than the renovation cost.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

income properties is a great show.....

I made $$ on renovating my moms old home, sold before the economic
collapse.

Value went from 80 grand to 115 grand, cost of renovations half that

at the time realtors all reported 90% of buyers want a home in move in
condition, they will change the colors later.....

this means a home in run down shape automatically losses 90% of all
buyers........

which is why home flippers exist.

ME, I would prefer a fixer upper since I enjoy home repairs

" wrote in
:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:12:04 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:QuOdndFZq63PwX3RnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@giganews. com...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...-upgrades-more
-cost-than-value?mod=realestate-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and
pleasure with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of
course, I plan to live here until I die. If it works out that way,
I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are
disappointed. You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there
are a lot more people planning to die in their current home then
there* used to be. Show of hands?

Oddly enough, that's what I thought until yesterday.
Mostly because of my wife's feelings.
Then we got our RE tax bill.
38% increase. Cook county, Illinois.
Things change.
Even my wife's feelings. She is ****ed.
Me too, but I see a silver lining.
And Florida skies.

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in
Eastern Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent
bill was $1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way
I was going to retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to
own my house. I might as well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont
sucks just as badly as the politics.

With one house in VT, for about the last 8 years I owned it the taxes
were more than the mortgage. Saw one of those "Yahoo top 10" list on
worse taxed states. VT was one of the top 3. Not sure which.

Oh, and the weather in Vermont sucks

Still true.

just as badly as the politics.

Still true.

"Colbyt" wrote in
news

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in
Eastern
Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent bill
was $1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way I
was going to
retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to own my house. I
might as
well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont sucks just as badly as the
politics.

Would that be on a house of the same value both places?

Or did you manage to buy a comparable house for less money?

Most places tax on the actual value and I have heard the NE is one of
the highest. Here it is about 10.50 per 1000 of valuation and I
consider that onerous. Old-timers get to whack 20K off the assessed
value. Whoopee!

Colbyt



He is comparing apples to apples for the most part.

On 11/14/2010 4:39 PM Robert Green spake thus:

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...

"Robert Green" wrote: -snip-

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows
about renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide
are disappointed. You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet
there are a lot more people planning to die in their current home
then there* used to be. Show of hands?

That's my plan. Probably while completing one of the 20 or so
projects I juggle. The kids are welcome to sell it, live in it,
or burn it to the ground. I've gotten my money's worth.

I've found the more people adapt their houses to their own personal tastes,
the more reluctant they seem to leave it (looks in the mirror). I don't plan
to die here, but life may have other plans. I have stayed longer than I
wanted to because of so many things I've added and the wretched economy.

Which is why a recent job I did for some folks is all the more perplexing.

Helped a couple get their house ready for sale while they looked for a
new place; they're moving from their detached (semi-) urban house to a
condo in a "golf community". The guy's an engineer (concrete), built and
remodeled half the house which is quite, well, strange. At least very
idiosyncratic; very impractical, but with a lot of really nice touches.
Kinda looks like a house built by hippies on the outside, but nice on
the inside. Lotsa wood (including a *lot* of really nice redwood).

Anyhow, the guy's getting on in years and less inclined to do projects,
and practically allergic to all maintenance chores. Which is why I was
called upon to do about 20 years worth of deferred maintenance. With the
result that their home is now, finally, much closer to the way they've
always wanted it; I put up trim that they'd been intending to do for
*years*. And they're moving out of it in a month. To a place with much
less "character" (and subject to the rules of the HOA). Go figure.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On 11/16/2010 1:10 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 11/14/2010 3:12 PM, Robert Green wrote:

snip

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

There are very few people that believe that the costs of renovations or
remodeling are recouped at sale time. Everyone's always worried that
there is this legion of dumb people out there that's pouring money into
their homes with the idea that it's driving up the value of their home
by more than the cost of the work. That legion of people doesn't exist.
Maybe a few clueless people believe it, but not legions.

It does seem to pay off to fix the biggest turn-offs to buyers. We got a
good deal on our house because the previous owner opened a wall in the
shower to fix a leaky pipe and just left the wall open. It was just a
turn-off to buyers and to put a wall back would be easy.

An exception:

I don't know whether it's a new show, or one that's been around a while
and I just ran across it, but I did see a show where the remodeling
focused on creating a rental apt. within the house. Adding a $1000
monthly income out of thin air increases the value of a house to the
current owner (and the future owner if he chooses to continue to rent
it) by far more than the renovation cost.

Only in such areas where that sort of thing is legal, or at least
tolerated. Some areas let you call them a 'mother in law apartment'
('Granny Flat' for Harry), and turn a blind eye to the fact that MIL is
either hale and hearty and living on her own, or already in the ground.

But yes, in older-city row houses, making a rental out of the 'garden
level' (AKA Daylight Basement) to help make the mortgage, is an old
tradition.
--
aem sends...

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:34:32 GMT, Red Green wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:10:42 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 18:12:04 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:QuOdndFZq63PwX3RnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@giganews .com...

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
For your Sunday reading...



http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...-upgrades-more
-cost-than-value?mod=realestate-homeimprove

That may be true, but who cares? I do renovations for my use and
pleasure with no regard to recouping the money at sale time. Of
course, I plan to live here until I die. If it works out that way,
I'll never know for
sure.

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are
disappointed. You do raise an interesting question. I'll bet there
are a lot more people planning to die in their current home then
there* used to be. Show of hands?

Oddly enough, that's what I thought until yesterday.
Mostly because of my wife's feelings.
Then we got our RE tax bill.
38% increase. Cook county, Illinois.
Things change.
Even my wife's feelings. She is ****ed.
Me too, but I see a silver lining.
And Florida skies.

I moved from The People's Republic of Vermont and bought a house in
Eastern Alabama. My taxes went from $6,000 to $1,700. My most recent
bill was $1,500, definitely in the right direction. There was no way
I was going to retire in Vermont if I had to pay $500/month just to
own my house. I might as well rent. Oh, and the weather in Vermont
sucks just as badly as the politics.


Oh, and the weather in Vermont
sucks

Oh, forgot. You outta get a chuckle outta this.

I have an indoor/outdoor weather station. Radio controlled to an indoor
display. Updates like every 30 seconds. Also monitors some satellite for
the date/time every few minutes. Often they don't connect during the day
but pick up the signal evenings/early am. Normal.

Clocked changed the 11/1 at 2am. I turned off the DST setting. It did not
resynch until 11/5.

My work system didn't reset until yesterday (well, sometime over the weekend).
It was an hour off all last week and refused to be told differently.

On 11/15/2010 10:10 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 11/14/2010 3:12 PM, Robert Green wrote:

snip

I'm betting the legion of people watching all the HGTV shows about
renovations and the alleged increase in value they provide are disappointed.

There are very few people that believe that the costs of renovations or
remodeling are recouped at sale time. Everyone's always worried that
there is this legion of dumb people out there that's pouring money into
their homes with the idea that it's driving up the value of their home
by more than the cost of the work. That legion of people doesn't exist.
Maybe a few clueless people believe it, but not legions.

It does seem to pay off to fix the biggest turn-offs to buyers. We got a
good deal on our house because the previous owner opened a wall in the
shower to fix a leaky pipe and just left the wall open. It was just a
turn-off to buyers and to put a wall back would be easy.

An exception:

I don't know whether it's a new show, or one that's been around a while
and I just ran across it, but I did see a show where the remodeling
focused on creating a rental apt. within the house. Adding a $1000
monthly income out of thin air increases the value of a house to the
current owner (and the future owner if he chooses to continue to rent
it) by far more than the renovation cost.

Very true. I had a house with a two bedroom in-law unit downstairs and
it was very desirable when we sold because of the rental income, though
we had family members living there.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:48:07 +0000,
(DA) wrote:

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ff-604107-.htm
DA wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate...te-homeimprove

I didn't read the article but it's what realtors have already told me.
Make
the house look like the new owners can do with it what they want to. If
you
have siding, roofing or painting issues deal with those, but
renovations are
usually a waste of time and money.

Well, the article specifically described additions and improvements as
opposed to fixes. And, since the whole concept of "home value" (as in
"adding to home value") only becomes realized through the sale of the
home, I could never understand why people do any improvements just before
putting the house for sale.

You are right, there is no way to second guess what the new owner would
want. Maybe all they want is a cheap house which they'll use as blank
canvas to improve it the way THEY want it. Maybe the reason they are
buying is because the house is 15 min drive from their work and not
because it looks nice.

I would put any money that would otherwise go into improvements/additions
before the sale into a special account I'd call "bargaining power savings
account".

I had a rather old A/C in the last house I was selling when the market was
already very bad. It would have been a $6000+ expense to replace and there
was really no telling that it would improve the chance of selling the
house a single bit. So I didn't do it. It turned out offering a $2,500
discount and $2,500 seller assist seals the deal better than any $5000
improvement would.


All good points. I'll remember that "bargaining power savings
account".
I've only had 2 houses, and sold none, so my experience is limited to
that.
I'm the "blank canvas" type.
Probably more likely to reject a house because of "improvements."
A lot is personal taste.
I remember when we were looking for our first house the realtor
bragged up the finished basement in one we looked at with the "Pride
of ownership" line.
When I saw it the first thing that came to my mind was, "Man, I'm
going to have to tear all this stuff out."
I'd feel the same if I saw a hot tub or jacuzzi or swimming pool.
"Move in" condition is probably most important for a fast sale.
Hard to figure what turns a house on for a buyer.
When we bought this house it was empty, clean, and newly painted.
Nothing needed repair.
Price was right.
Small kitchen without much counter space. Old built-in cabinets with
worn formica counter tops.
I thought it'd be all over when my pro cook wife saw that small
kitchen.
Nope, she loved the place.
Go figure.
And as you said, cutting our commute time from 45 minutes to 12 didn't
hurt at all. That's why we were looking here.

--Vic