"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 10/23/2010 11:22 PM, aemeijers wrote:
(snip)

They are as rare as women are here, as far as I can tell. I blame
lawyers
for that. There have been so many schools sued for injuries kids
sustain in
shop class that many schools have just eliminated them from their
programs.
I, on the other hand, went to a technical high school that had a
machine
shop with lathes, milling machines, a metallurgy shop and a foundry.
The
lathes were powered by an overhead belt and pulley system that were
labeled
"Dept. of War" - that's how old they were. We started by creating a
drawing
of a tool (a spanner wrench) freehand, then we learned to make
mechanical
drawings from which we made a wooden pattern of the wrench, cast it in
green
sand in the foundry and then machined it in machine shop. It was a
great
way to learn engineering and I doubt very many students get their
"hands
wet" like we did anymore.

Now you have me wandering whatever happened to that center punch I made
in 7th grade shop class. I've changed addresses half a dozen times or
more since then, so I doubt it is anywhere near daylight.

I presume that entire setup they had (lathes, casting room, etc) are all
long gone- thinking back, they wouldn't pass OSHA for grownups by modern
standards, much less having a room full of 7th grade boys playing with
them.


How in the hell did we Baby Boomers survive our childhood?

With lots of neat scars and stories behind them. And the occasional
fatality.

--
Bobby G.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 11:09 pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:

stuff snipped

My thought is that younger folks are the exception here because;
1. it's Usenet fer god's sake!
2. youngsters are more likely to rent than buy
3. those who buy are
a. hiring somebody to do their repairs
b. are too damn smart to wade through all the off topic crap here
for the occasional nugget.

3b. You mean like this thread (couldn't resist, sorry!)

OTOH-- I do recall a few pretty smart 'young 'uns' dropping by over
the years. And by smart I mean that they knew how to ask a question
and 'work the room' for the most information out there.

They are as rare as women are here, as far as I can tell. I blame lawyers
for that. There have been so many schools sued for injuries kids sustain
in
shop class that many schools have just eliminated them from their
programs.
I, on the other hand, went to a technical high school that had a machine
shop with lathes, milling machines, a metallurgy shop and a foundry. The
lathes were powered by an overhead belt and pulley system that were
labeled
"Dept. of War" - that's how old they were. We started by creating a
drawing
of a tool (a spanner wrench) freehand, then we learned to make mechanical
drawings from which we made a wooden pattern of the wrench, cast it in
green
sand in the foundry and then machined it in machine shop. It was a great
way to learn engineering and I doubt very many students get their "hands
wet" like we did anymore.

--
Bobby G.

"There have been so many schools sued for injuries kids sustain in
shop class that many schools have just eliminated them from their
programs."

I've got a friend who teaches high school music in a tony nearby suburb and
his belief is that it was lawsuits and the sense that "trades" weren't
classy enough. They want everyone to be "rocket surgeons." (-:

At: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/ma...24labor-t.html

the author says "High-school shop-class programs were widely dismantled in
the 1990s as educators prepared students to become "knowledge workers." . .
.. The Princeton economist Alan Blinder argues that the crucial distinction
in the emerging labor market is not between those with more or less
education, but between those whose services can be delivered over a wire and
those who must do their work in person or on site. The latter will find
their livelihoods more secure against outsourcing to distant countries. As
Blinder puts it, "You can't hammer a nail over the Internet." Nor can the
Indians fix your car. Because they are in India.

So it could be that the folks that have managed to acquire a trade despite
the "knowledge worker" bias of schools will have the last laugh. And the
last jobs.

hmm...I wonder if that's why so many Art and Music classes have been cut
too. You know, I'm leaning towards budget cuts as opposed to lawsuits.

It's probably a combination of multiple factors, but there's no doubt in my
mind that school administrators are keenly aware of the potential
liabilities of shop class injuries and just don't want to take the risks.

My high school still has all three because we keep voting to have them
funded.

Good for you. Too bad it's not the same all across America.

Besides, I thought it was the parent's job to ensure that their kid's
learned these types of life skills. My kids boys both took shop, but
the vast majority of what they learned about taking care of their cars
and houses either came from me or was introduced by me and then they
took it the next few steps.

Shop class taught me a lot about safety and other things like measuring
twice and cutting once. It filled in a lot of other skills I didn't learn
being the flashlight holder and tool fetcher for my dad when he worked on
the family car. But both types of exposure "set the mark" and enabled me to
learn on my own.

I once showed my youngest son how to change his brake pads and the
next thing I knew he was doing a full brake job - rotors, calipers and
pads - on a junker that his older brother bought.

A guy I worked for only got tools for his Christmas and birthday presents
but those gifts paid off in him being able to do almost all his own auto
work: full brake jobs as well as a lot of other tasks. His dad was a
mechanic on Air Force One, hence the tool gifts.

Sometimes they just need to be introduced to the subject matter and I
think that that introduction is my responsibility.

Kids are incredibly imitative. I recall showing my friend's kid something
ONCE on the computer (how to turn it on, log on and open his speak and spell
games) and he was able to do it himself the very next day. So I agree, it's
important to get them started and the problem is that there are fewer and
fewer people doing repairs and maintenance so there are fewer and fewer kids
being exposed to it. I think part of the problem is that so many things
just can't be fixed anymore without sophisticated tools or replacement
parts.

Anyone who's been to Cuba can attest to how creative good mechanics can be.
The island is filled with cars from the 60's still running with close to a
million miles on them. They may be godless commies, but boy can they
stretch a car's useful life out by an extra 30 years.

--
Bobby G.

(snip)

Besides, I thought it was the parent's job to ensure that their kid's
learned these types of life skills. My kids boys both took shop, but
the vast majority of what they learned about taking care of their cars
and houses either came from me or was introduced by me and then they
took it the next few steps.

I once showed my youngest son how to change his brake pads and the
next thing I knew he was doing a full brake job - rotors, calipers and
pads - on a junker that his older brother bought.

Sometimes they just need to be introduced to the subject matter and I
think that that introduction is my responsibility.

Well, I'm no parent, but I am a big brother. After my parents split up
and my kid sisters were living with our mother 800-some miles away from
our father, I tried. On my monthly trips down there to the old home town
to visit, rather than just fix whatever was broken, or change whatever
they wanted changed, I would show them how to do it. And when they got
interested in driving, I showed them around how a car works, not with
the thought that they would ever actually do much themselves, but so
they would know when a guy (their age or at a garage) was blowing smoke
at them. From ages 11-16 or so, it worked pretty well. But then they
discovered BOYS!, and fell into the cliche of thinking females had to
play dumb about stuff like that. It wasn't until post-college, when they
were out on their own, that I could see some of the knowledge had indeed
stuck, and they were doing some small stuff hands-on for themselves. My
house-warming presents for both of them, for their first post-college
abodes, were small tool kits of the household basics.

--
aem sends...

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/23/2010 8:26 PM Robert Green spake thus:

Well, at least SOME good has come out of this farrago of a thread. Have a
good friend who used to teach there. Trivia fans will note Urbana is
allegedly the birthplace of HAL in 2001.

So, do they still call it "Shampoo-Banana"?

HAL a direct descendent of PLATO. Things suddenly become clearer
(g).

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 04:47:42 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 11:09 pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:

stuff snipped


At: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/ma...24labor-t.html

the author says "High-school shop-class programs were widely dismantled in
the 1990s as educators prepared students to become "knowledge workers." . .
. The Princeton economist Alan Blinder argues that the crucial distinction
in the emerging labor market is not between those with more or less
education, but between those whose services can be delivered over a wire and
those who must do their work in person or on site. The latter will find
their livelihoods more secure against outsourcing to distant countries. As
Blinder puts it, "You can't hammer a nail over the Internet." Nor can the
Indians fix your car. Because they are in India.

So it could be that the folks that have managed to acquire a trade despite
the "knowledge worker" bias of schools will have the last laugh. And the
last jobs.

I'm on both sides of game.
In the "Knowledge worker" sphere , Ido the nuts and bolts stuff that
can't be done online, as well as the stuff that can be - and I've kept
up my Auto Mechanic's licence so if every confuser in the world came
to a grinding halt I would still have the trade to fall back on.

hmm...I wonder if that's why so many Art and Music classes have been cut
too. You know, I'm leaning towards budget cuts as opposed to lawsuits.

It's probably a combination of multiple factors, but there's no doubt in my
mind that school administrators are keenly aware of the potential
liabilities of shop class injuries and just don't want to take the risks.

My high school still has all three because we keep voting to have them
funded.

Good for you. Too bad it's not the same all across America.

Besides, I thought it was the parent's job to ensure that their kid's
learned these types of life skills. My kids boys both took shop, but
the vast majority of what they learned about taking care of their cars
and houses either came from me or was introduced by me and then they
took it the next few steps.

My youngest daughter, not university educated but very successful in
her chosen field, is able to change her own tires (summer /winter
switch-over) and doesn't have to call dear old Dad every time
something doesn't work right in her house.

The elder University educated daughter has been slower to take on the
mechanical tasks, but living away from home, where dear old Dad can't
come running to bail her out, has been learning to do some of those
mundane tasks as well.

Shop class taught me a lot about safety and other things like measuring
twice and cutting once. It filled in a lot of other skills I didn't learn
being the flashlight holder and tool fetcher for my dad when he worked on
the family car. But both types of exposure "set the mark" and enabled me to
learn on my own.

I once showed my youngest son how to change his brake pads and the
next thing I knew he was doing a full brake job - rotors, calipers and
pads - on a junker that his older brother bought.

A guy I worked for only got tools for his Christmas and birthday presents
but those gifts paid off in him being able to do almost all his own auto
work: full brake jobs as well as a lot of other tasks. His dad was a
mechanic on Air Force One, hence the tool gifts.

Sometimes they just need to be introduced to the subject matter and I
think that that introduction is my responsibility.

Kids are incredibly imitative. I recall showing my friend's kid something
ONCE on the computer (how to turn it on, log on and open his speak and spell
games) and he was able to do it himself the very next day. So I agree, it's
important to get them started and the problem is that there are fewer and
fewer people doing repairs and maintenance so there are fewer and fewer kids
being exposed to it. I think part of the problem is that so many things
just can't be fixed anymore without sophisticated tools or replacement
parts.


And are more expensive to fix than to replace.
Anyone who's been to Cuba can attest to how creative good mechanics can be.
The island is filled with cars from the 60's still running with close to a
million miles on them. They may be godless commies, but boy can they
stretch a car's useful life out by an extra 30 years.
Necessity is the mother of invention, and political isolation has
made the cheap replacement option a non-starter in Cuba. If you want
it there, you basically MAKE it. From what's left.

wrote:

The elder University educated daughter has been slower to take on the
mechanical tasks, but living away from home, where dear old Dad can't
come running to bail her out, has been learning to do some of those
mundane tasks as well.

Pass this story on to your daughter (I've mentioned it before, but it bears
repeating).

The first thing a young woman did after getting an apartment in New York was
to find a single fellow with a tool kit. When she needed a "honey-do," she
invited him for dinner. The conversations in their heads went something like
this:

She: "He's a miracle worker. He can install a towel rack so it doesn't fall
down and all I have to do is throw a couple of extra potatoes in the pot!"

He: "She's a miracle worker. For a pair of thirty-five cent bolts, I get a
homemade rack-of-lamb dinner!"

On 10/24/2010 4:00 AM Kurt Ullman spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/23/2010 8:26 PM Robert Green spake thus:

Well, at least SOME good has come out of this farrago of a thread. Have a
good friend who used to teach there. Trivia fans will note Urbana is
allegedly the birthplace of HAL in 2001.

So, do they still call it "Shampoo-Banana"?

HAL a direct descendent of PLATO. Things suddenly become clearer
(g).

??????? Obviously a computer reference, but I'm at a disadvantage here
since I started computer-ing rather late, after the punch-card/PDP-11
age[1] ...


[1] First experiences: BASIC (later COBOL) on a Sperry-Univac
something-something, FORTRAN on a Honeywell DPS-8, and COBOL/JCL on a
System/360.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/24/2010 4:00 AM Kurt Ullman spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/23/2010 8:26 PM Robert Green spake thus:

Well, at least SOME good has come out of this farrago of a thread. Have a
good friend who used to teach there. Trivia fans will note Urbana is
allegedly the birthplace of HAL in 2001.

So, do they still call it "Shampoo-Banana"?

HAL a direct descendent of PLATO. Things suddenly become clearer
(g).

??????? Obviously a computer reference, but I'm at a disadvantage here
since I started computer-ing rather late, after the punch-card/PDP-11
age[1] ...


[1] First experiences: BASIC (later COBOL) on a Sperry-Univac
something-something, FORTRAN on a Honeywell DPS-8, and COBOL/JCL on a
System/360.

PLATO was a computer at ChamBana (thus the reference) that I used a LOT
during the early 70s whilst wasting Daddy's money at the Indiana
University Campus in Ft. Wayne. Had a pretty decent star-trek game and
one of the early chat rooms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

Most of the younuns aren't interested in anything but ipods, video
games, and skate-boards, gettin' high or gettin' laid. The only "fix"
they have in their lexicon is the one that makes them (or their
friends) high.

You should see a doctor about that pinecone you somehow got up your butt.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

Open the pod bay doors, please HAL . . .

Well, we could already have been to mars if the space program wasn't
vulnerable to the vagaries of politics.

TDD

I think it's more a case of robotics reaching the point where it's really
not very necessary to send a human in order to collect high quality data.
What did Neil Armstrong do that a robotic rover couldn't? Play a round of
golf? (-: We've had enough probe failures on Mars to indicate that it
would be quite possible to get them there to be the first dead humans.
That, I think, would be bad for funding. (-:

We've actually sent quite a few Roving Roombas out there to suck up rocks
and look for Martians.

I had hoped the Obama would have been at least as smart as JFK and would set
the US to a technical task like the moon shot that would once again put us
at the pinnacle of human achievment.

I just read that there's been a tremendous advance in solar technology that
nearly halves the cost of solar panels. I'll bet there are plenty of
important discoveries still to be made in solar. It's not too late to
retool all our empty heavy manufacturing plants to take advantage of the new
technology.

Most likely, we'll do the R&D and China or some other country will profit by
it. When the Repubs regain control, it will be rightly so because Obama was
a dupe and actually thought the giving the banks money would "trickle down"
to the jobless. Ha! He missed the opportunity to create 10's of thousands
of jobs and help make the US the leader in solar tech the way we were with
PC tech. Instead we got a health care plan that pleases no one except
insurance companies and no change in the shedding of American blood to try
to create Muslim democracies in the middle east (isn't that like being a
little pregnant or a jumbo shrimp - an oxymoron?) These people hate our
guts. We should have gone to Iraq. Found and killed Saddam and his sons,
bumped the next three hoodlums to head of state and said "Now don't make us
come back for you!"

Change you can believe in. A nickel and two pennies from your tax dollar
and the nickel turned out to be a slug.

--
Bobby G.

On Oct 25, 8:26*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in ...

stuff snipped

Open the pod bay doors, please HAL . . .

Well, we could already have been to mars if the space program wasn't
vulnerable to the vagaries of politics.

TDD

I think it's more a case of robotics reaching the point where it's really
not very necessary to send a human in order to collect high quality data.
What did Neil Armstrong do that a robotic rover couldn't? *Play a round of
golf? *(-: *We've had enough probe failures on Mars to indicate that it
would be quite possible to get them there to be the first dead humans.
That, I think, would be bad for funding. *(-:

We've actually sent quite a few Roving Roombas out there to suck up rocks
and look for Martians.

I had hoped the Obama would have been at least as smart as JFK and would set
the US to a technical task like the moon shot that would once again put us
at the pinnacle of human achievment.

Big disappointment. He seems to buy whatever crock his "advisors"
hand him.
Like killing the promising, already in development new generation of
shuttles in favor
of, for god's sake, manned mission to Mars! Gimme a break!!!!

I just read that there's been a tremendous advance in solar technology that
nearly halves the cost of solar panels. *I'll bet there are plenty of
important discoveries still to be made in solar. *It's not too late to
retool all our empty heavy manufacturing plants to take advantage of the new
technology.

But, sweetheart, that's not how it works in our dysfunctional
whorehouse AKA
the U.S. Congress. They are paid off big-time by corporate energy
folks to
slow or sabotage any attempt to capitalize on the gorgeous research
being
done by our science/technology whizzes.

And a weak and confused Obama doesn't use the full weight of his bully
pulpit,
so busy is he singing "Kumbaya".

I remember decades ago driving through the Calif. desert where Solar
One
(I think that was its name) was a demo project. Of course then it
wasn't
competitive price-wise with the oil that our sons and daughters are
buying
with their blood. But instead of putting govt money into scaling up,
the project
was killed. Somebody should do a documentary like "Who Killed the
Electric Car"!

Most likely, we'll do the R&D and China or some other country will profit by
it. *When the Repubs regain control, it will be rightly so because Obama was
a dupe and actually thought the giving the banks money would "trickle down"
to the jobless.

Wait a minute; I'm a little confused. It was BUSH in 2008 who threw
money at
Big Banking, at the behest of his Wall Street-turned-Presidential
advisor
weasels. Was it an accident that these Wall Street guys structured
the bailout
such that the banks were not OBLIGATED to start lending again; help
small
business stay afloat. They banks took the money laughed...all the way
to the bank.
People couldn't get loans; the country drifted even further into
recession; still with
us. Wouldn't SOMEBODY have had the brains to figure that you don't
shovel
all our taxpayer money out to Big Banking without SOME conditions
attached!!!!

People -- not only tea party useful idiots -- constantly conflate the
BUSH bailout and the OBAMA stimulus.
HB

*Ha! *He missed the opportunity to create 10's of thousands
of jobs and help make the US the leader in solar tech the way we were with
PC tech. *Instead we got a health care plan that pleases no one except
insurance companies and no change in the shedding of American blood to try
to create Muslim democracies in the middle east (isn't that like being a
little pregnant or a jumbo shrimp - an oxymoron?) These people hate our
guts. *We should have gone to Iraq. *Found and killed Saddam and his sons,
bumped the next three hoodlums to head of state and said "Now don't make us
come back for you!"

Change you can believe in. *A nickel and two pennies from your tax dollar
and the nickel turned out to be a slug.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...


the author says "High-school shop-class programs were widely dismantled in
the 1990s as educators prepared students to become "knowledge workers." .
.
. The Princeton economist Alan Blinder argues that the crucial distinction
in the emerging labor market is not between those with more or less
education, but between those whose services can be delivered over a wire
and
those who must do their work in person or on site. The latter will find
their livelihoods more secure against outsourcing to distant countries. As
Blinder puts it, "You can't hammer a nail over the Internet." Nor can the
Indians fix your car. Because they are in India.


This book addresses that issue, as well as the fact that many people will
find a career in which they make or fix things to be much more personally
rewarding than one in which they move digital paper around.

http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Sou...8033368&sr=1-1

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 23:26:02 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 10/22/2010 8:58 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

Physicists have already created matter from energy so the rules get very
fuzzy the more theoretical you get:

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1363

Why do things yellow and turn brittle under very bright light? Could
that
energy be converted not just into heat but into chemical changes of the
material it strikes?

How do plants create biomass from sunlight?

Don't CFLs create RFI which will pass right through the box?

What would happen if you lowered (inside a waterproof container, for all
you
wiseguys!) a tungsten bulb and a CFL of equal wattage into two
calorimeters?
Would they both raise the temperature of the water an equal amount? All
interesting questions - for a theoretical physics group.

As you point out, if I came to AHR to read about angelic pin dancing it
would have been a far more entertaining discussion, but as it was
written is
was wrong. At least if you believe in the common usage of the words
"put
out, exactly, heat and light" He meant "eventually" - a word that has a
pretty clear meaning which isn't exactly "exactly." (-"

--
Bobby G.



That website is a wonderful resource and went straight to my favorites.
Thanks.

TDD

Well, at least SOME good has come out of this farrago of a thread. Have a
good friend who used to teach there. Trivia fans will note Urbana is
allegedly the birthplace of HAL in 2001.

I grew up in Urbana, and was HAL's[*] first employee (I was in high school).
;-)
[*] They make electronic keyers and other HAM stuff. Last I checked they were
still around.

Boy was that ever an optimistic movie. Moon bases, Pan Am in space. Pan Am
didn't even survive Earth! HAL was ranked No. 13 on a list of greatest film
villains of all time on the AFI's 100 Years... 100 Heroes and Villains.

Open the pod bay doors, please HAL . . .

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
(snip)

Besides, I thought it was the parent's job to ensure that their kid's
learned these types of life skills. My kids boys both took shop, but
the vast majority of what they learned about taking care of their cars
and houses either came from me or was introduced by me and then they
took it the next few steps.

I once showed my youngest son how to change his brake pads and the
next thing I knew he was doing a full brake job - rotors, calipers and
pads - on a junker that his older brother bought.

Sometimes they just need to be introduced to the subject matter and I
think that that introduction is my responsibility.

Well, I'm no parent, but I am a big brother. After my parents split up
and my kid sisters were living with our mother 800-some miles away from
our father, I tried. On my monthly trips down there to the old home town
to visit, rather than just fix whatever was broken, or change whatever
they wanted changed, I would show them how to do it. And when they got
interested in driving, I showed them around how a car works, not with
the thought that they would ever actually do much themselves, but so
they would know when a guy (their age or at a garage) was blowing smoke
at them. From ages 11-16 or so, it worked pretty well. But then they
discovered BOYS!, and fell into the cliche of thinking females had to
play dumb about stuff like that.

After years and years of watching close friends and family fall in and out
of love like drunks in canoes, I've concluded that the "helpless little
female" is actually a built in, hardwired part of the courtship ritual.
Australia's bowerbirds build houses to impress the ladies. If it's built
into a bird's brain, chances are good it's built into ours.

I recall developing a very strong urge to build, build, build coming on at
about age 16 and lasting for a good ten years. I built a darkroom with
plumbing and electric, garage cabinets from birch ply and eventually
graduated to making bookcases for friends from oak, maple, mahogany,
learning to veneer, learning how to use mortise and tenon construction, etc.
I've not met a whole lot of women who build their own furniture, although
there are some. I think it's genetic.

I've (over)heard women talk about how much they appreciate their
husband/boyfriend's ability to fix the small things that break in a house.
Maybe it's saving money that counts or perhaps not having to have some
unknown person wandering around the home is the reason. I used to put up
closet poles and bookshelves for friends and neighbors, and they were very
greatful (BUT - - - I always made them watch and help) but it was like
Iraq. Once you start, you're responsible for anything that ever happens to
anything that was hung from that pole or place on that shelf.

It wasn't until post-college, when they
were out on their own, that I could see some of the knowledge had indeed
stuck, and they were doing some small stuff hands-on for themselves. My
house-warming presents for both of them, for their first post-college
abodes, were small tool kits of the household basics.

Interesting. I've tried to segregate my tools by task, such as a toolbox
for routine auto maintenance, another for CATV wiring, another for 110-240
VAC electrical work, plumbing, shelf installing, telephone repair, etc.

I've seen a lot of very unsatisfactory small tool kits sold by the usual
suspects, but nothing that I thought contained what a basic, but serious,
multitasking tool kit should contain. I've been looking at some
multi-function tools for car kits for my "new" old vehicle. I am spoiled,
though: the first car I ever rebuilt was a Jaguar Mk10 and it had the
original Jag toolkit untouched in the "boot." A bonanza of multiple fixed
wrenches, adjustable ones, pliers, special tools for various tasks in a
fitted, guitar-picked shaped metal box that sat inside the left rear fender.

--
Bobby G.