I am looking to replace a home driveway, patio, and connecting
walkways, and am gathering quotations. I am posting here to ask for
help with several items:

1. Is a concrete job ok to perform at this time of the year in the
northeast U.S., starting next week, where daily temperatures are in the
60's and night-time lows can be possibly be in the low 50's, maybe high
40's? The job supposedly will be completed by the end of next week.

2. Is a 4 inch thick, 4000 PSI, 6-1/2 bag mix with 10/10 gauge mesh a
reasonable method? Should I consider asking for 5" or thicker, more
cement bags per yard, heavier mesh, etc.?

3. Expansion joints using 1/2" fiber "as needed" are being offered.
Should I insist on expansion joints every "X" number of feet instead?
The climate here is well below freezing in the several months of winter
and in the high 80's in the warmest months of the summer.

4. The job calls for about 2600 square feet of concrete, about half for
the driveway and the remainder for a large patio and 3 walkways. A
rough guess is 27 yards of concrete to be installed after removing
existing concrete, compacting the base, pouring gravel as a sub-base
and then installing the new concrete. Any wild guess as to what a job
like this should cost?

I would very much appreciate any other thoughts or suggestions as well.

Thanks very much for help and suggestions.

"Smarty" wrote:

I am looking to replace a home driveway, patio, and connecting
walkways, and am gathering quotations. I am posting here to ask for
help with several items:

1. Is a concrete job ok to perform at this time of the year in the
northeast U.S., starting next week, where daily temperatures are in the
60's and night-time lows can be possibly be in the low 50's, maybe high
40's? The job supposedly will be completed by the end of next week.

IMO- This is the best time- especially since it has been so dry. As
long as it doesn't freeze for a week or so you're golden. And when
you see the heat it will throw off you'll quit worrying about a light
frost.


2. Is a 4 inch thick, 4000 PSI, 6-1/2 bag mix with 10/10 gauge mesh a
reasonable method? Should I consider asking for 5" or thicker, more
cement bags per yard, heavier mesh, etc.?


Plenty for the sidewalks & patio- but I'd lean towards 6 for my
driveway. With fiber- and air-entrained. Things can be fine for
20 years- then that delivery truck backs in one day & you'll be glad
you spent the extra now.


3. Expansion joints using 1/2" fiber "as needed" are being offered.
Should I insist on expansion joints every "X" number of feet instead?
The climate here is well below freezing in the several months of winter
and in the high 80's in the warmest months of the summer.

Local codes likely spell that out-- I'd at least have each contractor
spell out how *they* interpret 'as needed'.


4. The job calls for about 2600 square feet of concrete, about half for
the driveway and the remainder for a large patio and 3 walkways. A
rough guess is 27 yards of concrete to be installed after removing
existing concrete, compacting the base, pouring gravel as a sub-base
and then installing the new concrete. Any wild guess as to what a job
like this should cost?

I get 32 yards if you go with 4" throughout-- but the concrete will be
the least of your expenses. How rough a job it is to tear out- and
how/where it gets carted away will probably be the biggie.

You might want to ask your favorite concrete contractor for a quote
without the tear-out. That's just plain bull work. The
replacement is an art.


I would very much appreciate any other thoughts or suggestions as well.

Give a call to the local concrete supplier. The one whose trucks
you see all the time. Tell him your thoughts and ask for
suggestions. I've found those guys to be real talkative, and nobody
knows the concrete business better. They probably won't be able to
suggest a contractor, but they can certainly give you some of the
right questions to ask.

I'd consider pricing stamped concrete. We stay at a place in Stowe,
VT that has a bunch of stamped & stained concrete that is absolutely
gorgeous.

Jim

Jim gave you great answers.

Time of year - best.

4" concrete is adequate. I would go to 5" on the driveway. Mesh
is NOT reinforcement, it only serves to keep concrete together
after it cracks. There are many engineers that feel that fiber
mesh is equivalent to mesh. If you want to reinforce the drive,
consider #3 bar on 18" centers. The biggest issue is compaction
and quality of the subgrade. Very important depending on how much
tearing up occurs with removal.

Expansion needs to be wherever the concrete is trapped such as
between buildings or between the garage and the street, and at
least every 30'. Saw cut or joint T/4 all concrete into squares,
i.e. if the walk is 5' wide, joint every 5'. If the drive is
10', joint every 10. Make sure that if they use a jointer, it has
a deep keel, at least 1" deep. If these are saw cuts they should
be made the same day as the pour. Make sure there are plenty of
cuts at re-entrant corners. NEVER pour more than 12' in any
direction without a joint, if the drive is over 12' wide make sure
to cut in down the center, even though this adds more cross cuts
to keep the sections square. Joints are crucial, but I feel the
contraction joints are more important than the
construction/expansion joints.

2600 SF @ 4" thick is 32.5 CY. A thicker drive will increase the
yardage. Concrete costs and labor costs vary extremely around the
country. Ability to access the site for demolition and
replacement may add a substantial cost.

Where I live, I would expect $1 to $2 for demolition and haul off
and +/- $5 per SF replacement. Decorative would run at least $9.



--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .


"Smarty" wrote in message
...
I am looking to replace a home driveway, patio, and connecting
walkways, and am gathering quotations. I am posting here to ask
for
help with several items:

1. Is a concrete job ok to perform at this time of the year in
the
northeast U.S., starting next week, where daily temperatures are
in the
60's and night-time lows can be possibly be in the low 50's,
maybe high
40's? The job supposedly will be completed by the end of next
week.

2. Is a 4 inch thick, 4000 PSI, 6-1/2 bag mix with 10/10 gauge
mesh a
reasonable method? Should I consider asking for 5" or thicker,
more
cement bags per yard, heavier mesh, etc.?

3. Expansion joints using 1/2" fiber "as needed" are being
offered.
Should I insist on expansion joints every "X" number of feet
instead?
The climate here is well below freezing in the several months of
winter
and in the high 80's in the warmest months of the summer.

4. The job calls for about 2600 square feet of concrete, about
half for
the driveway and the remainder for a large patio and 3 walkways.
A
rough guess is 27 yards of concrete to be installed after
removing
existing concrete, compacting the base, pouring gravel as a
sub-base
and then installing the new concrete. Any wild guess as to what
a job
like this should cost?

I would very much appreciate any other thoughts or suggestions
as well.

Thanks very much for help and suggestions.

DanG wrote:

Jim gave you great answers.

Time of year - best.

4" concrete is adequate. I would go to 5" on the driveway. Mesh is
NOT reinforcement, it only serves to keep concrete together after it
cracks. There are many engineers that feel that fiber mesh is
equivalent to mesh. If you want to reinforce the drive, consider #3
bar on 18" centers. The biggest issue is compaction and quality of
the subgrade. Very important depending on how much tearing up occurs
with removal.

Expansion needs to be wherever the concrete is trapped such as
between buildings or between the garage and the street, and at least
every 30'. Saw cut or joint T/4 all concrete into squares, i.e. if
the walk is 5' wide, joint every 5'. If the drive is 10', joint
every 10. Make sure that if they use a jointer, it has a deep keel,
at least 1" deep. If these are saw cuts they should be made the same
day as the pour. Make sure there are plenty of cuts at re-entrant
corners. NEVER pour more than 12' in any direction without a joint,
if the drive is over 12' wide make sure to cut in down the center,
even though this adds more cross cuts to keep the sections square.
Joints are crucial, but I feel the contraction joints are more
important than the construction/expansion joints.

2600 SF @ 4" thick is 32.5 CY. A thicker drive will increase the
yardage. Concrete costs and labor costs vary extremely around the
country. Ability to access the site for demolition and replacement
may add a substantial cost.

Where I live, I would expect $1 to $2 for demolition and haul off and
+/- $5 per SF replacement. Decorative would run at least $9.


Thanks VERY MUCH Jim and Dan for your excellent help. I have a couple
guys coming out later today to give me quotes and I now know a bit more
about how to request / spec the job.

I am extremely favorable to decorated / stamped / colored concrete but
my wife is pretty strong opposed on the grounds that the snow plowing
and shoveling done here on almost a daily basis will quickly ruin the
surfaces. She and I are also concerned about traction since we are
"golden agers" and want to have nice stable surfaces under-foot during
the icy and wet weather.

Are traction or plowing damage really big issues?