On Aug 23, 2:15*am, "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)"
wrote:
On Aug 23, 1:43*am, Tony wrote:





Aaron Eel (Ehrin) wrote:
On Aug 22, 6:19 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message

...

Aaron Eel (Ehrin) wrote:
On Aug 22, 9:26 am, dpb wrote:
Aaron Eel (Ehrin) wrote:
On Aug 22, 2:15 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:14:56 -0700 (PDT), "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)"
wrote:
... 1-1/2hp submersible pump...and the well is about 90 feet deep.
...
Just this morning the problem started. The shower was running and it
just stopped. I waited about 2 minutes and I heard the pump kick on,
and the water returned (with comparable pressure). Then after a
minute
it stopped again. ...
The readinf with the power on, points closed and pump off was 45psi.
The kick-on psi is 40. The hose was turned on and the holding tank was
emptied. 0psi. Nothing for a minute or so. Poits still hot but closed.
Then the pump motor kicks on until about 45psi is again realized..,
Then it shuits off. Points STILL closed. I guess it would repeat this
over and over but I didn;t want to mess up my new points.
This whole time the pump had power but did
not come on at all. Then it finally came on after another minute. It
ran the pressure up to about 45psi and suddenly stopped. It sort of
fizzled out instead of the normal kick it puts down when it stops.
And
the points still remained closed!
I went ahead and installed a new pressure switch just to be sure. The
same thing happened. I checked to see if the lines were all hot and
they were. The pressure in the holding tank was at 38psi. Just where
it should be. The only thing left now is the control box (which was
installed new with the pump) or the pump itself. I have some water
now
to get me by, but I only turn the power on at the breaker and only if
we really need it. And only for that time. Any ideas?
Is it overheating, or oversomethinging, and then resetting itself a
few minutes later?
Question: What is the cylindrical 'thing' in the control box (the
electrical box between the switch and the pump motor)? It looks like
some kind of capacitor or something. Could it be some sort of fuse
that has gone bad?
That's because it is "some kind of capacitor" -- specifically, the start
cap. *Generally submersibles will have both a start and run external cap
* so think that it's likely there is more than one.
Possible is weak cap; have you ever had issues of lack of water supply
in the well itself? *Has it been unusually dry this summer or have you
used more than normal amounts of water recently?
Not that I know of. It's been raining here for weeks now. We never had
a dry season here this year either. The local water table is way up
there.
A relatively new pump _shouldn't_ have developed a bearing or motor
problem, but certainly stranger things have happened. *Is this a 240V
pump I presume? *Is it 2- or 3-wire to the hole?
Yes. 220 thre wire (including ground)
Need to check motor
currents against nameplate while it is running to determine condition
there.
Sounds like the well service people are in your future.
How do I check the capacitor? I don't see how you can get a tester on
it. It's inside that little steel box and inaccessible unless I open
it (thereby disconnecting it). *Logic would dictate that I check to
see if 200 volts is exiting that box but the lines disappear down into
the well. I could just buy a new capacitor but they’re 40 bucks.
If it runs on occasion, it's getting power; I doubt that is the
intermittent.
Can't envision the setup where the enclosure door would disable anything
other than the manual start/stop/reset buttons.
Typical well control box has the hardware mounted onto the backside of the
cover. When you remove the cover, everything but the wiring and terminals
comes with it.

Again, I'd start w/ checking the motor currents on each leg while running;
to do it you need a clampon meter. *If you don't have I still think the
well service folks are in your future...
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Yeah... I guess we're beginning to lose each other in the chatter.
These types of forums are only good for one round. Possibly two.

The wires coming from the breaker box and into the pressure switch are
(1) red (1) black) (1) copper. They are single stranded. The control
box has one capacitor attached to the removable face and a small blue
'chip' mounted next to it. But only one capacitor. Not two. There are
(6) prongs on the removable face going in to (6) receptacles on the
actual mounted 'box' part.

Update: I just replaced the control box. $57.00. The pump and points
work fine now. But what made it go to begin with? If you read my
previous post, you know that the 3/4" steel pipe containing the hot-
wires from the breaker has been compromised by rust. It is right now
totally engulfed and submerged in water (just like it has been for
years, I'd reckon). I now need to rent a ditch witch and lay a new
pipe. That or use direct burial wire. Does anyone know what depth I
must lay down the new wire? And another question would be, can a Ditch
Witch pop thru one inch tree roots? It was probably just sand when the
wires were put down the first time, but now the yard is honey-combed
with soft roots.

Thanks!!

Aaron

A ditch witch will easily go through 1" roots. *What made the control
box go bad? *Could be something in it went bad. *Or it could be the
wires going down to the pump with an intermittent short, or your pump is
going bad, or a lightning strike 6 months ago, or............. *

Yes. This is what has got me worried. If I call in the pros, they're
gonna want to pull a building permit and hit me up for a grand. When
all I have to do is to dig a new line, disconnect the old line, throw
down some direct burial, hook it up and fill it in. But in the time it
takes me to do it, the new control box as well as ther pump itself
could be ruined if I use the water.

Outdoor
underground conduit almost always tends to gather water, even if it's
just condensation added up over the years.

Thanks for your valued input, Tony. *As I mentioned earlier, the 3/4"
steel pipe with the hot wires in it has had a history of being
submerged where it disappears into the ground. When it rains here, the
area around the pump is a natural low spot, and it becomes a small
lake for a day or two. If you look at where that pipe rusted through,
it's about 6 inches above the ground. Right at the high water line. I
pulled on it gently today and a lot more rusted disintegrated pipe
started to pull lose. So I just let it be. I am 100% positive that the
wire has not been subjected to crimping though, as it is right in the
middle of other plumbing pipes and that whole area is a few feet from
my neighbor's chain link fence. We don't even mow back there it's so
tight. This is nothing new, either. That area has been a problem for
at least 15 years now. Ever since my neighboor filled in the right of
way out by the street. All that water now comes to me. So it's just
now deciding to do something goofy? I don't know, since that wire is
never ever disturbed. And by the looks of it, that pipe has been
compromised for at least a year now if not more.

*The wire should be fine in
the water.

So why did they bury it in a pipe? If it doesn’t matter, then that
cannot be a source of the control box fry-out. Right now that area is
under water. I just went out there. Is there a reason why wire is
wrapped in the plastic jacket when it's sold as direct burial? Isn't
that to keep away direct contact with water? My thought is that the
electricity must arc between the wires inside that waterlogged pipe.
I'm no electrician but it sure sounds funny to me why it was even
sealed up in the pipe in the first place if not to keep it from things
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Maybe the roots that have grown in after all these years have somehow
crimped the steel pipe at some point along its length thereby crimping
the wires. I've seen roots go right through tile and concrete so I
know it is possible. That is certainly a thought. Yikes! I'll bet it
could still kill you if you were standing over it. Even buried 2 or 3
feet down.