All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

Fun can be a bike ride (assuming you already have the bike, of course).
Then when you're done, you're too tired to spend any more money.

Assuming you have food, of course.

Jon

Stormin Mormon wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?


Unless your church does actual real-world good works (funding mission
trips doesn't count) with the tithe, I'd start with redirecting that.

--
aem, trusting organized religion even less than organized government or
organized crime, sends...

That's a secular point of view. Now that I'm living the various
covenants, I find that God keeps His end. When I pay an honest tithe,
so many things work so much better. Reducing my tithe is false
economy.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

Unless your church does actual real-world good works (funding mission
trips doesn't count) with the tithe, I'd start with redirecting that.

--
aem, trusting organized religion even less than organized government
or
organized crime, sends...

On Aug 5, 11:03*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
That's a secular point of view. Now that I'm living the various
covenants, I find that God keeps His end. When I pay an honest tithe,
so many things work so much better. Reducing my tithe is false
economy.

If you're paying a tithe, having fun must be against your religion.
It's in the handbook.

Strange, I missed that lesson. I musta been out, having fun? I'm in
trouble, now.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

If you're paying a tithe, having fun must be against your religion.
It's in the handbook.

On Aug 5, 6:33*pm, wrote:
On Aug 5, 11:03*am, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
That's a secular point of view. Now that I'm living the various
covenants, I find that God keeps His end. When I pay an honest tithe,
so many things work so much better. Reducing my tithe is false
economy.

If you're paying a tithe, having fun must be against your religion.
It's in the handbook.

Nah. He's buying his way into heaven. USAians think money can buy you
everything.

You people sure do a lot of stereotyping.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"harry"
wrote in message
...

If you're paying a tithe, having fun must be against your religion.
It's in the handbook.

Nah. He's buying his way into heaven. USAians think money can buy you
everything.

On Aug 5, 4:03*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
That's a secular point of view. Now that I'm living the various
covenants, I find that God keeps His end. When I pay an honest tithe,
so many things work so much better. Reducing my tithe is false
economy.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"aemeijers" wrote in message

...

Unless your church does actual real-world good works (funding mission
trips doesn't count) with the tithe, I'd start with redirecting that.

--
aem, trusting organized religion even less than organized government
or
organized crime, sends...

Covenants????

On 8/4/2010 9:52 PM aemeijers spake thus:

aem, trusting organized religion even less than organized government or
organized crime, sends...

Organized religion IS organized crime.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes the
calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.

On Aug 7, 6:17*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. *;-) *Put another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? * I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. *That makes the
calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. *I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies. *From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! *I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. *)-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.

Yep. Exactly so. It's the same here in the UK. I think the
consequenses of getting fired are not as serious here. You certainly
seem to be in the **** in America if it happens.
Personally I have never borrowed money for any purpose & I'm not going
to start now.
I think if you had 30X your mortgage repayment in the bank you'd be
better to pay off some of that mortgage. Obviously keep some back.

"harry" wrote
"Robert Green" wrote:
wrote
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another
way, as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes
the calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a
Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens
eat the losses in higher prices. )-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting
to creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.

Yep. Exactly so. It's the same here in the UK. I think the
consequenses of getting fired are not as serious here. You certainly
seem to be in the **** in America if it happens.

Yes, it's because during WWII, US companies skirted the wage freeze by
providing free health care benefits. That model has "stuck" to the point
where the cart's driving the horse. I wonder if people would be so
war-happy if they realized that the income tax they pay every paycheck was a
direct result of having to pay for war:

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...es/ustax.shtml

When the Civil War erupted, the Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861,
which restored earlier excises taxes and imposed a tax on personal incomes.
The income tax was levied at 3 percent on all incomes higher than $800 a
year.

And it's been going strong ever since. When you give the government special
powers "just for an emergency" the emergency seems to last forever. It's
the ratchet effect.

Personally I have never borrowed money for any purpose & I'm not going
to start now. I think if you had 30X your mortgage repayment in the bank
you'd be
better to pay off some of that mortgage.

Our tax laws encourage having a mortgage. I had a car loan once, mainly to
establish credit because you can't live in the US without a credit card. It
was a 20% APR. It was also my last car loan. I paid it off early and have
paid cash ever since.

Obviously keep some back

How much is the question? What's happening now is that state and local
governments, after losing huge amounts of money in the harebrained schemes
set up by investment banks, are now increasing fees and taxes to the
breaking point.

Everybody thinks "we all" lost money during the recession. But that's not
true. The money didn't just evaporate. Some investment bankers did just
fine and the ones that didn't got government bailouts all over the world and
did just fine, too. They were just smart enough to "plead poverty." That
way, they didn't find lynch mobs waiting for them at home the way AIG execs
did when the size of their "bonuses" for collapsing the world economy was
revealed.

Now Lehman's Dick Fuld wants the company he killed to continue paying his
legal fees that came about from killing the company. That's Catch-22 cubed.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ehmans-demise/

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


Yes, it's because during WWII, US companies skirted the wage freeze by
providing free health care benefits.

Actually it was the other way around. The Natives were getting
restless so the Government decided that health care benefits (and I
don't think they were ever completely free, just subsidized) were not
REALLY against wage freeze.
BTW: This is about 90% of the reason we are in the general
healthcare mess we are in today.


Our tax laws encourage having a mortgage.
FWIW his is the second biggest deduction. The first being the
employee healthcare deduction.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?
After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes the
calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.



Amen, brother. I've been poor, as used to be traditional during and
shortly thereafter college. Didn't care for it, gonna try like hell
never to do it again. There were family financial dry spells growing up
as a kid, although we always had a roof and food. Several siblings have
been broke on and off over the years.

Net effect of all this is that I have turned into a bit of a cheap SOB
over the years. I'll never be rich (too much of a mouth to ever play the
corporate game successfully), but I have managed to hold on to a decent
paying job for 30 years. I have enough in the bank to pay the mortgage
for several years (small house, half of what they approved me for), as
well as buy food, plus enough seed money to start over elsewhere if I
had to, at a modest level. Never made a monthly car payment in my
life, and buy my toys off the trailing edge. There are people with
non-working spouses and rug rats that get by (and save regularly) on
less than I do, and I have great respect for that, but the 1/3 pay cut I
would take if I retire as soon as I am eligible scares me to death. If
I could find a job that I actually enjoyed that would make up part of
the difference, it would make the decision to go a lot easier.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:

Net effect of all this is that I have turned into a bit of a cheap SOB
over the years. I'll never be rich (too much of a mouth to ever play
the corporate game successfully), but I have managed to hold on to a
decent paying job for 30 years.

Start your own business.

Many years ago, I decided that if was doomed to work for a fool, it might as
well be me.

Never looked back.

HeyBub wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
Net effect of all this is that I have turned into a bit of a cheap SOB
over the years. I'll never be rich (too much of a mouth to ever play
the corporate game successfully), but I have managed to hold on to a
decent paying job for 30 years.

Start your own business.

Many years ago, I decided that if was doomed to work for a fool, it might as
well be me.

Never looked back.



You missed the line where I said I have 'too much of a mouth?' Running
your own business means dealing with the public, including the idiots. I
already have blood pressure problems. I'm also a soft touch- people who
are good at BS stories prey on people like me. Not saying running your
own business is bad, and I admire people who do. But with age comes
wisdom, and I have learned that my skills (such as they are) lie elsewhere.

--
aem sends...

On 8/7/2010 7:37 AM, HeyBub wrote:
aemeijers wrote:

Net effect of all this is that I have turned into a bit of a cheap SOB
over the years. I'll never be rich (too much of a mouth to ever play
the corporate game successfully), but I have managed to hold on to a
decent paying job for 30 years.

Start your own business.

Many years ago, I decided that if was doomed to work for a fool, it might as
well be me.

Never looked back.



Like me, you can fire customers. Some people are impossible to deal
with. I'm always polite when I say, "I'm sorry, I can't do business
with you anymore. Perhaps some other service company would be a much
better match for you." I've had some real ding dongs as customers
and when they open their mouths to me the wrong way, I'll bid them
farewell and I'm suddenly no longer available.

TDD

Being the owner is a whole different skill set. One friend of mine is
out of work, and has been for a couple months. He is a great worker,
but doesn't know how to manage, advertise, and so on. If you can start
and run a business, that's great. Some folks can't.

With your own business, each customer you serve is your boss, for a
period of time.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Start your own business.

Many years ago, I decided that if was doomed to work for a fool, it
might as
well be me.

Never looked back.

"aemeijers" wrote
, but the 1/3 pay cut I would take if I retire as soon as I am eligible
scares me to death. If I could find a job that I actually enjoyed that
would make up part of the difference, it would make the decision to go a
lot easier.

The key is finding a job you like. I have no plans to retire as long as I
have my health and my brains functions normally. I may cut back my hours
in a couple of years though. I guess I'm in a small minority of people that
actually like what they do, enjoy the people I work with.

I have no stress at work. I can come and go as I please. Things like oil
changes, doctor visits, trips to the post office are all done during the
work day. Vacation time? "Take whatever time you want"

When I arrive in the morning, my tea is brewed and waiting. I start my
computer, then have my cup of tea while chatting with Sue for about a half
hour. Then I head out to the shop to see what is going on, stop to greet
every employee along the way. Some people enjoy a difficult crossword
puzzle or Sudoku, but I'd rather put together a challenging production
schedule.

If I was working on an assembly line putting knobs on the passing toasters
or lug nuts on the cars, I'd want to bail out as soon as possible. For me,
going to my job is not work.

On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 05:33:29 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?
After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes the
calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.



Amen, brother. I've been poor, as used to be traditional during and
shortly thereafter college. Didn't care for it, gonna try like hell
never to do it again. There were family financial dry spells growing up
as a kid, although we always had a roof and food. Several siblings have
been broke on and off over the years.

My father, a uni professor, died when I was 12 and my mother had always been a
stay-at-home, so there was a pretty big change in our lifestyle, then. They
were young adults during the depression so had that mentality. She did fine
with little. The house was almost paid for (seven years into a ten-year
mortgage) so that was no issue. Cash flow wasn't great, though.

Net effect of all this is that I have turned into a bit of a cheap SOB
over the years. I'll never be rich (too much of a mouth to ever play the
corporate game successfully), but I have managed to hold on to a decent
paying job for 30 years. I have enough in the bank to pay the mortgage
for several years (small house, half of what they approved me for), as
well as buy food, plus enough seed money to start over elsewhere if I
had to, at a modest level. Never made a monthly car payment in my
life, and buy my toys off the trailing edge. There are people with
non-working spouses and rug rats that get by (and save regularly) on
less than I do, and I have great respect for that, but the 1/3 pay cut I
would take if I retire as soon as I am eligible scares me to death. If
I could find a job that I actually enjoyed that would make up part of
the difference, it would make the decision to go a lot easier.

I'm not a cheap SOB, at all. I just don't borrow money I can't pay back
easily; like you, BTDT. I've already retired from one job (took a buy-out)
and supplement that retirement with another job paying pretty much the same,
in a state with half the income taxes and a quarter of the property tax. It
can be done and I found it's not nearly as scary on the outside as I thought
it would be. "Retireing" was by far the best thing that happened to me (in
the last 39 years - SWMBO may be listening).

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies.
The general discussions on TV and in the books is a minimum of 3
months expenses (ALL expenses) and 6 is better.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

That's part of my worries. I'm not sure but what the world economy is
about to collapse. Due in large part to irresponsible spending in
Washingmachine DC.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green"
wrote in message ...

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy
day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if
something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That
makes the
calculation a bit messy.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away,
but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage
payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a
Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X
the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the
advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow
citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are
starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:17:10 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes the
calculation a bit messy.

Well, it's your money. Ok, "reasonable" for me is $40K or so (two years
mortgage + taxes and some fun money). OTOH, Dave Ramsey tells us 3-6 months
expenses. Everyones "needs" are different.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away, but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Yes, there are (way too many) people living on the brink of disaster. They're
usually the ones with all the toys in the front yard, so they're not asking
how much is "reasonable" to spend on toys. *Borrowing* for toys wasn't part
of the equation.

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

Yes, this is a shred of a silver lining. I more conservatism comes back into
our lives.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:17:10 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put
another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if
something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes
the
calculation a bit messy.

Well, it's your money. Ok, "reasonable" for me is $40K or so (two years
mortgage + taxes and some fun money). OTOH, Dave Ramsey tells us 3-6
months
expenses. Everyones "needs" are different.

I think this recession is proving that 3-6 months is probably not going to
cut it. I know some people in their 50's that are in some pretty dire
circumstances right now, and they had that the mythical "three months of
mortgage payments" socked away, just like all the newspaper articles told
them to. But as the Bard says "When sorrows come they come not as single
spies but in batallions" and that's exactly what happened. Job woes easily
translate into health woes because the stress level shoots up. Going on
interviews every week with not even a nibble can spiritually gut someone.

I've been hiring a friend I've known since college to do odd jobs because
he's that hard-up for money. After he lost his job (his World Bank job was
outsourced) his wife divorced him and then he was diagnosed with prostate
cancer (after deciding he couldn't afford COBRA). Once you're in the system
as a "sick person" no one will hire you lest their group premiums soar.
Fortunately, his kids are chipping in to help him, but times really got
tough for him is a big hurry. If people can live without having a constant
knot in their stomach with only 3 months of expenses in the bank, more power
to them, but I think they're deceiving themselves.

Every expense we've budgeted for has gone up way more than any projections
would have indicated. From gasoline to electricity to food to utilities to
taxes to maintenance, etc. As governments run out of money, they're just
going to ratchet up the tax and fee screws. I predict that by November,
with employment rates still plummeting, the experts will declare that this
the new norm, that it's structural, not temporary and we had just better get
used to it.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away,
but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage
payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a
Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens
eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Yes, there are (way too many) people living on the brink of disaster.
They're
usually the ones with all the toys in the front yard, so they're not
asking
how much is "reasonable" to spend on toys. *Borrowing* for toys wasn't
part
of the equation.

Or, they sucked out the equity they had built up in their homes with a
handy-dandy reverse mortgage. They didn't see it as borrowing but almost as
free money, there for the tapping into.

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting
to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

Yes, this is a shred of a silver lining. I more conservatism comes back
into
our lives.

Well, fiscal conservatism, anyway.

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:09:27 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:17:10 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:03:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

After all of the above, and savings, whatever is left. ;-) Put
another
way,
as long as the obligations are taken care of, it's your money.

Yabbut. How much money is reasonable to keep in a fast access, rainy day
fund? I could only really start enjoying myself knowing that if
something
truly bad happened, I'd have some resources to deal with it. That makes
the
calculation a bit messy.

Well, it's your money. Ok, "reasonable" for me is $40K or so (two years
mortgage + taxes and some fun money). OTOH, Dave Ramsey tells us 3-6
months
expenses. Everyones "needs" are different.

I think this recession is proving that 3-6 months is probably not going to
cut it. I know some people in their 50's that are in some pretty dire
circumstances right now, and they had that the mythical "three months of
mortgage payments" socked away, just like all the newspaper articles told
them to. But as the Bard says "When sorrows come they come not as single
spies but in batallions" and that's exactly what happened. Job woes easily
translate into health woes because the stress level shoots up. Going on
interviews every week with not even a nibble can spiritually gut someone.

I agree, to a point. That's why I have at least two years' mortgage payments
in the bank. With any luck I won't need that much in three, because it'll be
paid. The down side is that that money isn't making any money and is, in
fact, losing ground.

Interviews aren't stressful at all, at least I have never felt them to be. I
rather like interviewing. NEEDING the job to eat is stressful.

I've been hiring a friend I've known since college to do odd jobs because
he's that hard-up for money. After he lost his job (his World Bank job was
outsourced) his wife divorced him and then he was diagnosed with prostate
cancer (after deciding he couldn't afford COBRA). Once you're in the system
as a "sick person" no one will hire you lest their group premiums soar.
Fortunately, his kids are chipping in to help him, but times really got
tough for him is a big hurry. If people can live without having a constant
knot in their stomach with only 3 months of expenses in the bank, more power
to them, but I think they're deceiving themselves.

Would that everyone had three. It hasn't been that long since I was in that
boat.

Every expense we've budgeted for has gone up way more than any projections
would have indicated. From gasoline to electricity to food to utilities to
taxes to maintenance, etc. As governments run out of money, they're just
going to ratchet up the tax and fee screws. I predict that by November,
with employment rates still plummeting, the experts will declare that this
the new norm, that it's structural, not temporary and we had just better get
used to it.

They already have (declared this the new norm)! Of course it just proves how
clueless our current crop of politicians *AND* bureaucrats is.

They say you should have at least 3X the mortgage payment tucked away,
but
trouble often hits much harder than that. I think 30X the mortgage
payment
is probably where you can start to feel comfortable enough to plan a
Disney
cruise with the kiddies. From what I've seen lately, people have 30X the
monthly mortgage payment in DEBTS, not savings!! I guess the advantage
there is that you can file for bankruptcy and make your fellow citizens
eat
the losses in higher prices. )-:

Yes, there are (way too many) people living on the brink of disaster.
They're
usually the ones with all the toys in the front yard, so they're not
asking
how much is "reasonable" to spend on toys. *Borrowing* for toys wasn't
part
of the equation.

Or, they sucked out the equity they had built up in their homes with a
handy-dandy reverse mortgage. They didn't see it as borrowing but almost as
free money, there for the tapping into.

Same thing. The *only* time I've ever "sucked" money out of a house was to
add to it. What I added was worth more than the money. Unfortunately, the
only major employer in the area got rid of 20K employees over three years.
That put a big crimp in the property values. When I sold I still was above
water, but not by much.

Fortunately, US savings levels, which were at all time lows are starting
to
creep back up as people realize how long they might have to fend for
themselves if the breadwinner gets fired and can't find a new job.

Yes, this is a shred of a silver lining. I more conservatism comes back
into
our lives.

Well, fiscal conservatism, anyway.

ALL conservatism. It all fits together. There is good reason things worked.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

going to ratchet up the tax and fee screws. I predict that by November,
with employment rates still plummeting, the experts will declare that this
the new norm, that it's structural, not temporary and we had just better get
used to it.


Some already had. I can remember when unemployment went under 6%,
what was then "structural" or "frictional" unemployment, that inflation
was going to break out. I would be really surprised if we ever get back
to mid-00's structural unemployment ever again. Too many one-of-kind
happenings then from (too?) easy money from the Fed, to great leaps in
productivity from computer adoptions, etc. to suspect that the halcyon
days will ever return in full force, especially with all the other stuff
going with health care, etc.
I'll be happy if we manage to miss out on our equivalent of Japan's
lost decade.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

Stormin Mormon wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

All play and no retirement savings makes jack a frustrated old guy who's
still working to keep ends met. Fun is not a percentage...it's a threshold
that most people never meet. So they spend on fun anyway and hope
for magic when they're old.

People who are financially secure for the long term with an uncertain
future don't have to ask what percentage.

On Aug 5, 6:13*am, mike wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

All play and no retirement savings makes jack a frustrated old guy who's
still working to keep ends met. *Fun is not a percentage...it's a threshold
that most people never meet. *So they spend on fun anyway and hope
for magic when they're old.

People who are financially secure for the long term with an uncertain
future don't have to ask what percentage.

You are quite right. The best way to achieve this is not to borrow
money.

Of course, you're right. There is a balance in the middle some where.
And, it's the balance I'm seeking. I'm not counting on Social Security
to be there for me. Or, they will keep advancing the eligible age
until it's about 125 years old to start collecting. I also expect the
retirement and mutual funds to be raided for some "crisis" of the
government's making. Still, I do need to keep saving as best possible.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mike"
wrote in message ...

All play and no retirement savings makes jack a frustrated old guy
who's
still working to keep ends met. Fun is not a percentage...it's a
threshold
that most people never meet. So they spend on fun anyway and hope
for magic when they're old.

People who are financially secure for the long term with an uncertain
future don't have to ask what percentage.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?


When the bills are paid, then what is left over can go to fun. Simple as
that! (I have a monthly budget in Excel spreadsheet, so I know on the 1st of
the month how much money I have for what....)

And when things are tight, I cut out optional stuff. Instead of eating out,
eat at home, don't go to movies, etc. Fun might just be going for a short
drive or something low cost.

Same with work.... Work first in the morning, then fun after that. And the
fun is more fun knowing my work/chores are all done!

On Aug 5, 4:03*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Well, you could dispense with a few of your wives. Are you allowed to
sell them? I understand mormons, like muslims, have many wives.

If you need more interest in your life, you need to travel and see the
world. Meet people from different cultures. I can recommend places if
you like depending on your interests and vices.
You can then speask with more authority on many world topics, unlike
many Yanks who are totally ignorant.

On Aug 4, 11:03*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Anything that's left, but church and charities are excluded, i.e. fun
first

On Aug 4, 11:03*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

That reminds me of when I was in college. One year, I worked a summer
job in a flat die forge shop. Discussing money during coffee break one
day, one of the old black guys said that he split his check three
ways; one for rent, one for groceries and one for Mr. Kessler. When I
asked who Mr. Kessler was, he replied that it was his favorite brand
of whiskey.

Paul

On Aug 5, 9:16*am, Pavel314 wrote:
On Aug 4, 11:03*pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

So, the bills got to be paid. The church tithes and offerings. The
electric, rent, etc. But, that gets boring in a hurry. How much to
spend on fun? Does anyone have a formula? Percentage, or what?


Your answer all depends on whether flashlights and batteries are fun.

I've been outed. My real secrets are now made public
on the message board.

Well, I did it. Treated myself to a toy. Bought a 4C
mag light to go with my 4 cell LED bulb. Going to
make a mixed up frankenstein light. Built from parts.
Not that I need a four c LED mag, but it sure looks
like it is going to be fun to make.

I was seeking absolution and forgiveness for buying
yet another flashlight.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Thomas"
wrote in message
...

Your answer all depends on whether flashlights and batteries are fun.

Sounds like that fellow was taking care of himself, as best he knew
how. I'm not a drinker, so my approach will be different. I respect
others choices, even when they aren't the same as mine.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pavel314" wrote in message
...

That reminds me of when I was in college. One year, I worked a summer
job in a flat die forge shop. Discussing money during coffee break one
day, one of the old black guys said that he split his check three
ways; one for rent, one for groceries and one for Mr. Kessler. When I
asked who Mr. Kessler was, he replied that it was his favorite brand
of whiskey.

Paul

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Sounds like that fellow was taking care of himself, as best he knew
how. I'm not a drinker, so my approach will be different. I respect
others choices, even when they aren't the same as mine.

What do Mormons do for fun? Whatever it is after you have a year's
supply of food stashed away, then go do it with whatever you have left?
I met a Mormon gal in a bar one time, well she had been a Mormon. A
very nice lady.
My favorite flashlights are the double AA size two batteries with a
decent reflector and krypton bulb, and the million candles rechargeable
12 volt spot light. That thing lights up the night.

On Aug 6, 7:22*pm, FatterDumber& Happier Moe
wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Sounds like that fellow was taking care of himself, as best he knew
how. I'm not a drinker, so my approach will be different. I respect
others choices, even when they aren't the same as mine.

* What do Mormons do for fun? *Whatever it is after you have a year's
supply of food stashed away, then go do it with whatever you have left?
* I met a Mormon gal in a bar one time, well she had been a Mormon. *A
very nice lady.
* My favorite flashlights are the double AA size two batteries with a
decent reflector and krypton bulb, and the million candles rechargeable
12 volt spot light. *That thing lights up the night.

I think they collect names on big computer in Salt Lake City. When
they've got everyone's name the world will end. Or when the hard
drive's full. I forget which. Boom.