I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal. Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

On Jul 13, 4:41*pm, "RBM" wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal. Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

Is this total thing a 120V circuit, all on one side of the line?

On 13/07/10 2:41 PM, RBM wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal. Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

I wonder about these large GFI breakers and if they preclude using a GFI
outlet. I would think that distributed GFI breakers/outlets would be a
better idea from a practical standpoint.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Jul 13, 4:41 pm, "RBM" wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal.
Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for
a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in
or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

Is this total thing a 120V circuit, all on one side of the line?

No, the feeder is 120 /240 four wire

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 13/07/10 2:41 PM, RBM wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal.
Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in
raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for
heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for
a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in
or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

I wonder about these large GFI breakers and if they preclude using a GFI
outlet. I would think that distributed GFI breakers/outlets would be a
better idea from a practical standpoint.

My feelings as well. At the very least, this method is inconvenient in that
anything that causes a ground fault takes out everything

On Jul 13, 10:34*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message

...



On 13/07/10 2:41 PM, RBM wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal.
Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.

The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in
raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for
heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for
a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in
or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.

I wonder about these large GFI breakers and if they preclude using a GFI
outlet. I would think that distributed GFI breakers/outlets would be a
better idea from a practical standpoint.

My feelings as well. At the very least, this method is inconvenient in that
anything that causes a ground fault takes out everything

Plus, the ground fault current limit on the "big" breaker is likely
higher than it would be on a lower-ampacity gfci breaker, especially
one for the convenience outlet alone. (This discussion comes up
sometimes in the the U.K. d-i-y groups; apparently whole-house gfi's
(they call 'em something else) are common and/or mandatory there.)

But it sure saves money; probably a couple hundred, based on prices
here for dual-pole gfci's.

I'd make sure there was sufficient ambient lighting in the area on
another circuit to make sure people could get out of the tub safely
when that breaker trips.

Chip C
Toronto

Chip C wrote:
On Jul 13, 10:34 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message

...



On 13/07/10 2:41 PM, RBM wrote:
I come across a number of pool wiring jobs, where the electricians cut as
many corners as possible to keep costs down, and still remain legal.
Unless
I'm missing something, it seems that this may be legal.
The panel is an 8 circuit made for pool panel. It has a built in
raintight
outlet and two time clocks. This one has 2 double pole breakers for
heater
and pumps, 1 single pole breaker for under water lights, 1 single pole
breaker for above ground landscape lights, and 2 single pole breakers for
a
small grill/ mini fridge setup. There are no GFCI breakers or devices in
or
at the panel.
The panel is fed by a 50 amp GFCI breaker, which protects everything.
I wonder about these large GFI breakers and if they preclude using a GFI
outlet. I would think that distributed GFI breakers/outlets would be a
better idea from a practical standpoint.
My feelings as well. At the very least, this method is inconvenient in that
anything that causes a ground fault takes out everything

Plus, the ground fault current limit on the "big" breaker is likely
higher than it would be on a lower-ampacity gfci breaker, especially
one for the convenience outlet alone. (This discussion comes up
sometimes in the the U.K. d-i-y groups; apparently whole-house gfi's
(they call 'em something else) are common and/or mandatory there.)

Any GFCI (US) should be 5mA ground fault trip (4-6mA). There are also
breakers with ground fault protection for equipment that trip at 30mA -
may be called GFIs.

The UK has RCDs - residual current detectors. In one thread I have read
the protection for people was way over 5mA. In another thread I got the
idea that RCD main breakers were used with supply schemes where there is
no metal ground fault return path (ground wire in the service supply or
N-G bond like in the US). If there is a 'large' (100ma???) current to
earth, as from a ground fault, the RCD main opens. Otherwise there is
not reliably enough fault current through the earth to trip a breaker.

Is a N-G bond required for all Canadian services?

--
bud--