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| Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
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#1
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Opinions on upgrading Electrical panel...
Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article , (bud--) writes: | RBM wrote: | By current Nec, all bathroom outlets, all outside outlets, all outlets in | unfinished parts of basements, crawlspaces, garages, within six feet of any | sink, and all kitchen counter outlets, should be GFCI protected. | | This is also for new wiring. Tghere have been a lot of changes in 42 | years. But GFCIs are really useful protection and adding them is a good | idea. What counts as new wiring when you are replacing a panel? I assume that you don't have to provide GFCI breakers on circuits merely because those circuits include receptacles that should by locally current code be GFIC (but I actually like GFCI breakers better than receptacles). On the other hand, I assume you do have to provide AFCI breakers on circuits that would require them by locally current code. By the current NEC and for the typical "random" allocation of areas to circuits in older homes I would think that this could mean pretty much all breakers have to be AFCI. Excellent questions. I hoped Roy, John or Greg would answer. I believe it is not obvious from the NEC and is up to the inspector. You may have been arguing above that GFCI protection is required for receptacles, not branch circuits, but AFCI protection is required for branch circuits - which may work. AFCIs are more important for older wiring, but new wiring of today will likely become the old wiring of the future. Logically, using AFCIs in panel replacements is more important than new installs (but it is certainly not in the code). If the OP replaces his panel AFCI are another question and may be a real good idea with his older wiring.. Does something like an L14-20 outlet require AFCI protection (assuming in an area so requiring) since it has 120V available pole to neutral? As you likely know, AFCI protection is required for 15 and 20A 120V branch circuits supplying "outlets" (receptacles, lighting, smoke detectors, ...) in specified rooms in "dwellings". Generally receptacles that are required to have GFCI protection are not required to have AFCI protection. Older houses may have kitchen appliance, laundry and unfinished basement circuits that do not stray into rooms where protection is required. And maybe bathroom circuits. The protection would be for the branch circuit (which includes the L14-20 receptacle). -- bud-- |
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#2
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Opinions on upgrading Electrical panel...
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#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Opinions on upgrading Electrical panel...
In article , (bud--) writes:
| Dan Lanciani wrote: | In article , (bud--) writes: | | Dan Lanciani wrote: | | | Does something like an L14-20 outlet require AFCI protection (assuming in | | an area so requiring) since it has 120V available pole to neutral? | | | | As you likely know, AFCI protection is required for 15 and 20A 120V | | branch circuits supplying "outlets" (receptacles, lighting, smoke | | detectors, ...) in specified rooms in "dwellings". Generally receptacles | | that are required to have GFCI protection are not required to have AFCI | | protection. Older houses may have kitchen appliance, laundry and | | unfinished basement circuits that do not stray into rooms where | | protection is required. And maybe bathroom circuits. | | | | The protection would be for the branch circuit (which includes the | | L14-20 receptacle). | | The question is whether the branch circuit supplying the L14-20 (let's | assume that's all it supplies) is considered a 120V branch circuit for | this purpose. It's a 240V circuit, but it does have a neutral so 120V | is available. | | | I was lazy and didn't look up the configuration - shoulda known the | question looked too easy.... | | The receptacle, for others as lazy as I am, is 120/240V, 2 hots, | neutral, ground. | | My opinion is an inspector would not require AFCI protection. | (If AFCI protection was required it would have to be a 2-pole AFCI | breaker, because you can't have a common neutral otherwise.) Which would be a problem since Cutler Hammer doesn't make a 2-pole combo AFCI (yet?)... I wouldn't want to get into a situation where there is no way to satisfy the code with existing equipment. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com |
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#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Opinions on upgrading Electrical panel...
Dan Lanciani wrote:
In article , (bud--) writes: | Dan Lanciani wrote: | In article , (bud--) writes: | | Dan Lanciani wrote: | | | Does something like an L14-20 outlet require AFCI protection (assuming in | | an area so requiring) since it has 120V available pole to neutral? | | | | As you likely know, AFCI protection is required for 15 and 20A 120V | | branch circuits supplying "outlets" (receptacles, lighting, smoke | | detectors, ...) in specified rooms in "dwellings". Generally receptacles | | that are required to have GFCI protection are not required to have AFCI | | protection. Older houses may have kitchen appliance, laundry and | | unfinished basement circuits that do not stray into rooms where | | protection is required. And maybe bathroom circuits. | | | | The protection would be for the branch circuit (which includes the | | L14-20 receptacle). | | The question is whether the branch circuit supplying the L14-20 (let's | assume that's all it supplies) is considered a 120V branch circuit for | this purpose. It's a 240V circuit, but it does have a neutral so 120V | is available. | | | I was lazy and didn't look up the configuration - shoulda known the | question looked too easy.... | | The receptacle, for others as lazy as I am, is 120/240V, 2 hots, | neutral, ground. | | My opinion is an inspector would not require AFCI protection. | (If AFCI protection was required it would have to be a 2-pole AFCI | breaker, because you can't have a common neutral otherwise.) Which would be a problem since Cutler Hammer doesn't make a 2-pole combo AFCI (yet?)... I wouldn't want to get into a situation where there is no way to satisfy the code with existing equipment. Ask the inspector if AFCI protection is required. If there are 2 pole AFCIs (I don't know if there are) you could use a small subpanel for the AFCI. A 2 pole AFCI is probably really expensive. -- bud-- |
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