I've been wondering about this for years. When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

Higgs Boson wrote the following:
I've been wondering about this for years. When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off more.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Jun 3, 3:41*pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for years. *When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! *So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off more.

AC cools off water pipes??????

On Jun 3, 4:12*pm, "h" wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 3, 6:08 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Ron wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:41 pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for
years. When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

It's not possible that you don't know the answer to this. No one is that
clueless. The water is sitting in the pipes, not the hot water heater. You
have to run the water for a few seconds to fill the pipes with water from
the heater. You're a troll.

I most certainly am NOT! I may be clueless, but not as vicious as
you,
name-caller!

On Jun 3, 5:23*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Ron wrote:
On Jun 3, 7:00 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article
,
Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this
for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before
stepping in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored
in the pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it
will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if
you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

And if you turned off the AC, that water might stay at 90. It would still be
cold for a shower.

I don't have AC.

On Jun 4, 7:01*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 6/3/2010 2:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I've been wondering about this for years. *When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! *So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

It's George Bush's fault.

TDD

Ojala!

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:



On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

But with enough time, it all gets cooled. Under a day, I'll bet, and
then it stays that way until you let it get hotter in the house.

you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

I don't use AC at all but most of those who do keep it cooler than
that. Why are you using your unusual house as an example that's
supposed to apply to every eles's? In addition, if you keep your
house at 78, that's the temp inside the walls.

On Jun 3, 8:42*pm, Tony wrote:
ransley wrote:
On Jun 3, 2:21 pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
I've been wondering about this for years. *When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! *So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

You must be kidding

There is the small chance that this person grew up in a
home/apartment/condo with a circulating hot water system that keeps the
water in the pipes hot, or point of use water heaters? *And since then
has moved and didn't catch on yet? *And being that this person never
actually saw a water heater, never washed their hands at any public
place, and just never really thought about it? *OK, I'm being very
optimistic, but it's possible.

Looks like my reply didn't make it to the NG. Probably shouldn' t
bother
to reply to nastiness, but just for the record:

1 I lhave lived for a long time in a 3-bedroom stucco house.
2. It has a water heater.
3. I have washed my hands at many public places. In fact, being
that this is a
public place, may I "wash my hands" of this nasty poster?
4. Not gulty as charged of " not really thinking about it"; rather
not thinking
clearly about an obvious answer to a minor problem.

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jun 3, 8:42 pm, Tony wrote:
ransley wrote:
On Jun 3, 2:21 pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
I've been wondering about this for years. When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.
But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?
Inquiring minds...
Hypatia
You must be kidding
There is the small chance that this person grew up in a
home/apartment/condo with a circulating hot water system that keeps the
water in the pipes hot, or point of use water heaters? And since then
has moved and didn't catch on yet? And being that this person never
actually saw a water heater, never washed their hands at any public
place, and just never really thought about it? OK, I'm being very
optimistic, but it's possible.

Looks like my reply didn't make it to the NG. Probably shouldn' t
bother
to reply to nastiness, but just for the record:

1 I lhave lived for a long time in a 3-bedroom stucco house.
2. It has a water heater.
3. I have washed my hands at many public places. In fact, being
that this is a
public place, may I "wash my hands" of this nasty poster?
4. Not gulty as charged of " not really thinking about it"; rather
not thinking
clearly about an obvious answer to a minor problem.

Wow, and I was being very nice! Afraid to think what you thought of the
other replies!

On Jun 4, 11:53*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. *It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

But with enough time, it all gets cooled. *Under a day, I'll bet, and
then it stays that way until you let it get hotter in the house.

you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

I don't use AC at all but most of those who do keep it cooler than
that. *

Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO


Why are you using your unusual house as an example that's
supposed to apply to every eles's? * *

What do you mean by "unusual"? And everyone that has said I'm wrong
has not specified that different homes may be different. Seems to be
the "rule of thumb" that ALL homes with AC are going to have cooler
water coming out of the faucets.

In addition, if you keep your
house at 78, that's the temp inside the walls.

See my first paragraph above.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 20:29:33 -0400, "Cliff Hartle"
wrote:

Ok heres something to add to this. Why do you need a hot water heater

IF ITS ALREADY HOT WHY HEAT IT.

Hot water takes less energy to heat.

[snip]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 09:01:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/3/2010 2:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
I've been wondering about this for years. When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

It's George Bush's fault.


he's just doing what Ronald Reagan wanted.

TDD

"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.




Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO

That is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. In Arizona when
it is 115, keeping the house at 78 sounds good. In other rather humid
environments we turn the AC on when it gets to 78 inside. We get the temp
down to 70 to 72 and get rid of the humidity.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:31:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.




Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO

That is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. In Arizona when
it is 115, keeping the house at 78 sounds good. In other rather humid
environments we turn the AC on when it gets to 78 inside. We get the temp
down to 70 to 72 and get rid of the humidity.

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:31:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.
Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.




Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO
That is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. In Arizona when
it is 115, keeping the house at 78 sounds good. In other rather humid
environments we turn the AC on when it gets to 78 inside. We get the temp
down to 70 to 72 and get rid of the humidity.

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Here in TN mine is often set at 70F in the house. In the garage/shop
68F, sometimes lower if I'm working up a sweat. 896 square ft. and an
8000 BTU window unit and I'm not done insulating. Thats running it 3 to
5 hours a day.

On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. Look up equilibrium."

In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?

On Jun 6, 10:50*pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. *I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. *Much less than that and it's too
cold. *Alabama is in your "humid" class. *We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. LA being much worse.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Let me try to explain this so even you could understand it.

Let's assume the following temps to be true:
Wall temp ~80°
Attic temp (daytime) ~120°
Outside temp (daytime) ~80°
Water Heater Temp ~140°
Ground temp ~60°

When cold water is first called for during the day you get 80°(From
the wall area pipes) then 120° (From the attic pipes) then 80° (from
the outside pipes) and finally 60° (from the ground pipes).

See how simple that was?

Now at night the temps in the attic and outside will be cooler. Plug
those values into the above explanation and see how it changes.

I know that's a lot of information for you to comprehend but give it a
try.

Gordon Shumway

A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.

On Jun 6, 11:27*pm, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Let me try to explain this so even you could understand it.

OK, go for it smartass.

Let's assume the following temps to be true:
Wall temp ~80
Attic temp (daytime) ~120
Outside temp (daytime) ~80
Water Heater Temp ~140
Ground temp ~60

We aren't talking about "wall temps". We are talking about the temp
*inside* the walls, were EVERYTHING is the same temp, including the
COLD water pipes, as was stated in the OP that I questioned. "If the
house is air conditioned, it will cool off more". There were no
parameters given.

When cold water is first called for during the day you get 80 (From
the wall area pipes) then 120 (From the attic pipes) then 80 (from
the outside pipes) and finally 60 (from the ground pipes).

See how simple that was?

No **** Sherlock. Thanks for making my point.

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 22:58:36 -0400, Tony wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:31:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.
Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.




Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO
That is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. In Arizona when
it is 115, keeping the house at 78 sounds good. In other rather humid
environments we turn the AC on when it gets to 78 inside. We get the temp
down to 70 to 72 and get rid of the humidity.

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Here in TN mine is often set at 70F in the house. In the garage/shop
68F, sometimes lower if I'm working up a sweat. 896 square ft. and an
8000 BTU window unit and I'm not done insulating. Thats running it 3 to
5 hours a day.

My garage/shop isn't air conditioned. What's a little sweat?

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:

On Jun 6, 10:50*pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. *I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. *Much less than that and it's too
cold. *Alabama is in your "humid" class. *We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. LA being much worse.

Clueless.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Alabama is no different. Same latitude as LA. Same gulf. Same weather.

On Jun 7, 12:01*am, "
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. *LA being much worse.

Clueless.


Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Alabama is no different. *Same latitude as LA. *Same gulf. *Same weather.

If you say so. I've lived in Bama, LA, and Fl.......there are no
swamps in either Bama or Fl like there are in LA. Not even close.

On Jun 7, 12:18*am, Ron wrote:
On Jun 7, 12:01*am, "



wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. *LA being much worse.

Clueless.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Alabama is no different. *Same latitude as LA. *Same gulf. *Same weather.

If you say so. I've lived in Bama, LA, and Fl.......there are no
swamps in either Bama or Fl like there are in LA. Not even close.

BTW, the mosquitoes are a LOT worse in LA than AL, or FL, inland....so
what does that tell ya?

On Jun 6, 10:58*pm, Tony wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:31:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.
Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set? Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO
That is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. In Arizona when
it is 115, keeping the house at 78 sounds good. *In other *rather humid
environments we turn the AC on when it gets to 78 inside. *We get the temp
down to 70 to 72 and get rid of the humidity.

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. *I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. *Much less than that and it's too
cold. *Alabama is in your "humid" class. *We'd freeze at 70F.

Here in TN mine is often set at 70F in the house. *In the garage/shop
68F, sometimes lower if I'm working up a sweat. *896 square ft. and an
8000 BTU window unit and I'm not done insulating. *Thats running it 3 to
5 hours a day.

And for the most part, you don't have the same heat or humidity in TN
as you do in FL in the summer.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. Look up equilibrium."

I don't know how that makes your point. I think the part abou
tseeing the lower temperature is ambiguous for someone who doesn't
already understand what is meant, and might be misunderstood.

In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?

At great expense, but they don't put the pipes in the attic.

On Jun 7, 1:59*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. *Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. *Look up equilibrium."

I don't know how that makes your point. * I think the part abou
tseeing the lower temperature is ambiguous for someone who doesn't
already understand what is meant, and might be misunderstood.

From the OP that I questioned........"If the house is air conditioned,
it will cool off more." Talking about the water pipes *inside* the
walls.

Why don't you answer my post that was addressed directly to you?

In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?

At great expense, but they don't put the pipes in the attic.

So where do they put them?

On Jun 7, 2:25*am, Ron wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:59*am, mm wrote:



On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. *Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. *Look up equilibrium."

I don't know how that makes your point. * I think the part abou
tseeing the lower temperature is ambiguous for someone who doesn't
already understand what is meant, and might be misunderstood.

From the OP that I questioned........"If the house is air conditioned,
it will cool off more." Talking about the water pipes *inside* the
walls.

Why don't you answer my post that was addressed directly to you?



In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 23:25:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 7, 1:59*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. *Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. *Look up equilibrium."

I don't know how that makes your point. * I think the part abou
tseeing the lower temperature is ambiguous for someone who doesn't
already understand what is meant, and might be misunderstood.

From the OP that I questioned........"If the house is air conditioned,
it will cool off more." Talking about the water pipes *inside* the
walls.

Why don't you answer my post that was addressed directly to you?

I thought the other two guys covered everything, but I'll look at it
again.

In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?

At great expense, but they don't put the pipes in the attic.

So where do they put them?

Where they were in the first place. That's why it's expensive. Or
they save money by running them outside a wall, in a corner, and
building a box around them. Most attics are unheated and water pipes
will freeze and break in the winter.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 4, 11:53*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. *It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

We were talking about the temperature of the pipes in the walls. Now
you're talking about the water in the pipes in the attic. That water
can get very hot in the summer and it won't cool off to inside-wall
temperature in the few seconds it takes to get from the attic to the
faucet.

But with enough time, it all gets cooled. *Under a day, I'll bet, and
then it stays that way until you let it get hotter in the house.

you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

I don't use AC at all but most of those who do keep it cooler than
that. *

Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set?

Okay, most of those in the north and many of those in other areas.

Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO

While I can tolerate 84 in the house pretty well with the windows open
and a fan blowing right at me**, and 78 is normally just fine, if the
windows are shut, that changes everything. If it is so hot that I do
turn the AC on, it has to be 72 or lower. I don't know why, but even
when I'm not paying attention, I notice sooner or later how
uncomfortable I am at higher temps. In fact when I set it at 72, I'm
still rather uncomfortable and I figure, I'm spending so much money
already, let me spend a little more to get to 70 and actually be
comfortable. (Or let me just turn off the AC and open the window.)

**I see little point in ceiling fans


Why are you using your unusual house as an example that's
supposed to apply to every eles's? * *

What do you mean by "unusual"?

I mean most people cool their houses to 72 or even lower. I wear
very few clothes when I'm home so that helps me handle 84, and I've
found at night if I sleep both naked and without any top sheet or
blanket, 84 feels like 74, and if it's not too humid, I can go a
little higher than that iirc. But I look at my next door neighbor's
window, to judge if my 2AM tv will bother him, and his windows are
always shut, with the AC on. My new neighbor, a girl in her 20's had
her window open yesterday when it was pretty hot. Maybe she was
raised poor and doesn't waste money.

?And everyone that has said I'm wrong
has not specified that different homes may be different. Seems to be
the "rule of thumb" that ALL homes with AC are going to have cooler
water coming out of the faucets.

When the water pipes are in the area of the house that is cooled,
including inside the walls below the top floor ceiling, but not
including the attic. Some heat must enter the 2nd floor walls straight
from the attic, but a 2x4 is probably a better insulator from the
heatthan a broad expanse of sheetrock insulates from the cooler rooms.

Best regards,

In addition, if you keep your
house at 78, that's the temp inside the walls.

See my first paragraph above.

On Jun 7, 3:05*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 4, 11:53*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. *It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

We were talking about the temperature of the pipes in the walls. *Now
you're talking about the water in the pipes in the attic. *That water
can get very hot in the summer and it won't cool off to inside-wall
temperature in the few seconds it takes to get from the attic to the
faucet.

Ah, no...I'm still talking about the pipes in my walls, that run FROM
the attic.

You and several other people stated that the water in the pipes inside
the walls would be the same temperature as the living area if you have
AC. I questioned that, period. There were no parameters, and now it
seems that some of you want to add some.


But with enough time, it all gets cooled. *Under a day, I'll bet, and
then it stays that way until you let it get hotter in the house.

you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

I don't use AC at all but most of those who do keep it cooler than
that. *

Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set?

Okay, most of those in the north and many of those in other areas.

Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO

While I can tolerate 84 in the house pretty well with the windows open
and a fan blowing right at me**, and 78 is normally just fine, if the
windows are shut, that changes everything. *If it is so hot that I do
turn the AC on, it has to be 72 or lower. *I don't know why, but even
when I'm not paying attention, I notice sooner or later how
uncomfortable I am at higher temps. * In fact when I set it at 72, I'm
still rather uncomfortable and I figure, I'm spending so much money
already, let me spend a little more to get to 70 and actually be
comfortable. (Or let me just turn off the AC and open the window.)

You didn't answer my question.You said most people keep their AC below
78 degrees....now it's in the north and many of those in other areas?
HUH? Where is you data to back that up?


**I see little point in ceiling fans

Don't know what this has to do with pipes in the wall, but ceiling
fans make a huge difference AFA cooling an area. You get a cool breeze
affect.

Why are you using your unusual house as an example that's
supposed to apply to every eles's? * *

What do you mean by "unusual"?

I mean most people cool their houses to 72 or even lower. * I wear
very few clothes when I'm home so that helps me handle 84, and I've
found at night if I sleep both naked and without any top sheet or
blanket, 84 feels like 74, and if it's not too humid, I can go a
little higher than that iirc. * *But I look at my next door neighbor's
window, to judge if my 2AM tv will bother him, and his windows are
always shut, with the AC on. * My new neighbor, a girl in her 20's had
her window open yesterday when it was pretty hot. *Maybe she was
raised poor and doesn't waste money.

What does that have to do with you calling my house "unusual"?

And there you go again with what "most people" have their thermostats
set at. You have NO clue where "most people" set their thermostats.


And everyone that has said I'm wrong

has not specified that different homes may be different. Seems to be
the "rule of thumb" that ALL homes with AC are going to have cooler
water coming out of the faucets.

When the water pipes are in the area of the house that is cooled,
including inside the walls below the top floor ceiling, but not
including the attic. Some heat must enter the 2nd floor walls straight
from the attic, but a 2x4 is probably a better insulator from the
heatthan a broad expanse of sheetrock insulates from the cooler rooms.

OK...the bottom line is, the water coming out of my faucets in the
summer, is not 78 degrees even if the interior of my home is at 78
degrees like so many of you claimed..

The only cool water coming from my sinks in the summer is from the
hoses underneath the sinks, and that last for about 2 seconds before
the water gets warm, and then scalding hot. Then it takes at least 1
minute before the water is cool enough to put your hands under.

I can''t even wash clothes in cold water.

On Jun 7, 2:52*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 23:25:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron

So where do they put them?

Where they were in the first place. *That's why it's expensive.

In the slab?

On 6/6/2010 10:20 PM, Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. LA being much worse.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Which Alabama on which planet are you referring to? Bama is my
home and I've been to both Florida and Louisiana which is the
LA I hope you're referring to. Get into the hills of NE Bama
and you will wind up in the clouds and that can be 100% humidity
making it hard to breath when it hits 100°F. Air conditioning
saved The South but it attracted those Damn Yankees and we can't
get them to go home.

TDD

"Ron" wrote
In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?



Same place it was from the start. In the basement.

"Ron" wrote
Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm.

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. Look up equilibrium."

I'm not sure what point you mean. The attic is above the insulation and
subject to the outside temperature influence. Interior walls will be the
same temperature as the living spaces over time as they are giving off or
gaining heat through the drywall.

On Jun 7, 1:25*am, Ron wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:59*am, mm wrote:



On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 6, 10:31*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ron" wrote

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Attics are not heated or cooled to house temperature. *In summer, they
become solar heaters so the water gets rather warm. *

Thanks for making my point after you wrote this "I suggest you read
about the laws of physics and heat transfer. *Heat energy
will always seek out the lower temperature and the AC is removing heat
from living spaces. *Look up equilibrium."

I don't know how that makes your point. * I think the part abou
tseeing the lower temperature is ambiguous for someone who doesn't
already understand what is meant, and might be misunderstood.

From the OP that I questioned........"If the house is air conditioned,
it will cool off more." Talking about the water pipes *inside* the
walls.

Why don't you answer my post that was addressed directly to you?



In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 03:35:05 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/6/2010 10:20 PM, Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. LA being much worse.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Which Alabama on which planet are you referring to? Bama is my
home and I've been to both Florida and Louisiana which is the
LA I hope you're referring to. Get into the hills of NE Bama
and you will wind up in the clouds and that can be 100% humidity
making it hard to breath

That would sound MUCH better if you used the correct word, 'breathe'.
'Breath' here just sounds stupid.

when it hits 100°F. Air conditioning
saved The South but it attracted those Damn Yankees and we can't
get them to go home.

TDD

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 6, 11:27*pm, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Let me try to explain this so even you could understand it.

OK, go for it smartass.

Let's assume the following temps to be true:
Wall temp ~80
Attic temp (daytime) ~120
Outside temp (daytime) ~80
Water Heater Temp ~140
Ground temp ~60

We aren't talking about "wall temps". We are talking about the temp
*inside* the walls, were EVERYTHING is the same temp, including the
COLD water pipes, as was stated in the OP that I questioned. "If the
house is air conditioned, it will cool off more". There were no
parameters given.

When cold water is first called for during the day you get 80 (From
the wall area pipes) then 120 (From the attic pipes) then 80 (from
the outside pipes) and finally 60 (from the ground pipes).

See how simple that was?

No **** Sherlock. Thanks for making my point.

Because you ignore facts that are given to you, not only by me but by
others, I bet you voted for Obama didn't you?

Gordon Shumway

A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.

On 6/7/2010 10:50 AM, George B wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 03:35:05 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/6/2010 10:20 PM, Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. LA being much worse.

Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Which Alabama on which planet are you referring to? Bama is my
home and I've been to both Florida and Louisiana which is the
LA I hope you're referring to. Get into the hills of NE Bama
and you will wind up in the clouds and that can be 100% humidity
making it hard to breath

That would sound MUCH better if you used the correct word, 'breathe'.
'Breath' here just sounds stupid.


Ouch! He got me! I neglected to use what I learned in proofreading 101.
eye caynt spel

TDD

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 21:18:50 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:

On Jun 7, 12:01*am, "
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:50 pm, "
wrote:

We've been keeping ours at 77F and it seems about right. I have the upstairs
heat pump set for 80F which helps a lot. Much less than that and it's too
cold. Alabama is in your "humid" class. We'd freeze at 70F.

Alabama is nowhere near has humid as LA or FL. *LA being much worse.

Clueless.


Walk out the door to go to work in the morning and get sticky. I hated
living there.

Alabama is no different. *Same latitude as LA. *Same gulf. *Same weather.

If you say so. I've lived in Bama, LA, and Fl.......there are no
swamps in either Bama or Fl like there are in LA. Not even close.

Clueless.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 01:24:36 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 7, 3:05*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 4, 11:53*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. *It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

We were talking about the temperature of the pipes in the walls. *Now
you're talking about the water in the pipes in the attic. *That water
can get very hot in the summer and it won't cool off to inside-wall
temperature in the few seconds it takes to get from the attic to the
faucet.

Ah, no...I'm still talking about the pipes in my walls, that run FROM
the attic.

Everyone else is distinguishing the water before any water is being
used, versus after its running.

You and several other people stated that the water in the pipes inside
the walls would be the same temperature as the living area if you have
AC. I questioned that, period. There were no parameters, and now it
seems that some of you want to add some.

There are implied parameters. If you run the water long enough, you'll
be using water from outside the house under ground. Were you talking
about that water once it it in your walls. That will be cooler yet.


But with enough time, it all gets cooled. *Under a day, I'll bet, and
then it stays that way until you let it get hotter in the house.

you have the capability of cooling your house to 60 degrees or so, you
might have a point. My home never gets below 78 degrees in the
summer.

I don't use AC at all but most of those who do keep it cooler than
that. *

Most of who? Are you saying that you know where most people keep their
thermostats set?

Okay, most of those in the north and many of those in other areas.

Anything below 78 degrees is just wasting
money....IMO

While I can tolerate 84 in the house pretty well with the windows open
and a fan blowing right at me**, and 78 is normally just fine, if the
windows are shut, that changes everything. *If it is so hot that I do
turn the AC on, it has to be 72 or lower. *I don't know why, but even
when I'm not paying attention, I notice sooner or later how
uncomfortable I am at higher temps. * In fact when I set it at 72, I'm
still rather uncomfortable and I figure, I'm spending so much money
already, let me spend a little more to get to 70 and actually be
comfortable. (Or let me just turn off the AC and open the window.)

You didn't answer my question.You said most people keep their AC below
78 degrees....now it's in the north and many of those in other areas?
HUH? Where is you data to back that up?

Where is your data to back up what you said?


**I see little point in ceiling fans

Don't know what this has to do with pipes in the wall, but ceiling
fans make a huge difference AFA cooling an area. You get a cool breeze
affect.

to each his own.

Why are you using your unusual house as an example that's
supposed to apply to every eles's? * *

What do you mean by "unusual"?

I mean most people cool their houses to 72 or even lower. * I wear
very few clothes when I'm home so that helps me handle 84, and I've
found at night if I sleep both naked and without any top sheet or
blanket, 84 feels like 74, and if it's not too humid, I can go a
little higher than that iirc. * *But I look at my next door neighbor's
window, to judge if my 2AM tv will bother him, and his windows are
always shut, with the AC on. * My new neighbor, a girl in her 20's had
her window open yesterday when it was pretty hot. *Maybe she was
raised poor and doesn't waste money.

What does that have to do with you calling my house "unusual"?

Read it again. I'm tired of this.

And there you go again with what "most people" have their thermostats
set at. You have NO clue where "most people" set their thermostats.


And everyone that has said I'm wrong

has not specified that different homes may be different. Seems to be
the "rule of thumb" that ALL homes with AC are going to have cooler
water coming out of the faucets.

When the water pipes are in the area of the house that is cooled,
including inside the walls below the top floor ceiling, but not
including the attic. Some heat must enter the 2nd floor walls straight
from the attic, but a 2x4 is probably a better insulator from the
heatthan a broad expanse of sheetrock insulates from the cooler rooms.

OK...the bottom line is, the water coming out of my faucets in the
summer, is not 78 degrees even if the interior of my home is at 78
degrees like so many of you claimed..

The only cool water coming from my sinks in the summer is from the
hoses underneath the sinks, and that last for about 2 seconds before
the water gets warm, and then scalding hot. Then it takes at least 1
minute before the water is cool enough to put your hands under.

I can''t even wash clothes in cold water.

Wait longer.

If you post again, you can have the last word.