A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

Some fertilizers contain components that can stain. Have you or your
neighbor been spreading fertilizer?

By the way, what kind of tree is it? I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

On May 19, 9:10*am, mike wrote:
By the way, what kind of tree is it? *I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

Nevermind. I forgot that you already mentioned your guesses on tree
species.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:08:34 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

Some fertilizers contain components that can stain. Have you or your
neighbor been spreading fertilizer?

We have not -- especially not in the exact shape of a tree shadow. I
don't know about the neighbor, but they don't have a front lawn, so I
doubt it.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

By the way, what kind of tree is it? I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

Didn't I say that it looks like a birch or beech?

On May 19, 9:16*am, Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT), mike

wrote:
By the way, what kind of tree is it? *I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

Didn't I say that it looks like a birch or beech?

Yes. See my previous retraction.

On May 19, 12:26*pm, mike wrote:
On May 19, 9:16*am, Prof Wonmug wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT), mike

wrote:
By the way, what kind of tree is it? *I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

Didn't I say that it looks like a birch or beech?

Yes. *See my previous retraction.

did it rain lightly during the day?

Mark

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

It seems very odd that it is in the shape of the tree's shadow. Wonder
if pollen could do that? Has the tree been blooming? In Florida, we
get so much oak pollen that the yellow powder can be seen on cars and
pavement. Have you tried brushing or washing it off?

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

Aphid (or other insect) "dew"?

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:27:01 -0700 (PDT), Mark
wrote:

On May 19, 12:26*pm, mike wrote:
On May 19, 9:16*am, Prof Wonmug wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT), mike

wrote:
By the way, what kind of tree is it? *I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.

Didn't I say that it looks like a birch or beech?

Yes. *See my previous retraction.

did it rain lightly during the day?

Dang, I forgot to mention the rain. It didn't rain that day, but it
did rain a little the night before and some of the previous few days.

I am 99% certain that the stain was not there at about 9:00 am when I
went out. I think it happened between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm.

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in shade,
so they aren't that good.

I felt the pavers. They are dry (not sticky). I also felt the tree. It
is not sticky and does not appear to be dripping anything.

Puzzle...

On Wed, 19 May 2010 12:28:01 -0400, "
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

It seems very odd that it is in the shape of the tree's shadow.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too.

Wonder
if pollen could do that? Has the tree been blooming? In Florida, we
get so much oak pollen that the yellow powder can be seen on cars and
pavement.

No blooms. The leaves have been out for weeks. I can't see any pollen.

Have you tried brushing or washing it off?

I tried brushing and sweeping. No effect. It's definitely a stain. I
haven't tried washing yet. Not sure what to use.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:05:53 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

Aphid (or other insect) "dew"?

I called an arborist and that's what he said. But all within a few
hours? He's coming over to take a look.

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:05:53 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a
large stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the
morning. The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more
brown than orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly
overhead. The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap?
I stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything.
The stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was
painted oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine.
PLus, I;m pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

Aphid (or other insect) "dew"?

I called an arborist and that's what he said. But all within a few
hours? He's coming over to take a look.

Go out and watch the space below the tree in full sun with a dark background.
Sometimes it will look like a fine rain if you have a bad case of aphids. Or,
look at the leaves for the bugs.

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:27:01 -0700 (PDT), Mark
wrote:

On May 19, 12:26 pm, mike wrote:
On May 19, 9:16 am, Prof Wonmug wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:
By the way, what kind of tree is it? I wonder if the sap has a high
tannin content.
Didn't I say that it looks like a birch or beech?
Yes. See my previous retraction.
did it rain lightly during the day?

Dang, I forgot to mention the rain. It didn't rain that day, but it
did rain a little the night before and some of the previous few days.

I am 99% certain that the stain was not there at about 9:00 am when I
went out. I think it happened between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm.

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in shade,
so they aren't that good.

I felt the pavers. They are dry (not sticky). I also felt the tree. It
is not sticky and does not appear to be dripping anything.

Puzzle...

You might call your county extension service if they have horticultural
experts...some kind of pollen or insect droppings?

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?


Well if it looks even remotely like the Blessed Virgin, call your local
TV news guy, then get ready to start selling tickets and souvenirs...

On Wed, 19 May 2010 14:36:40 -0400, Joseph Capgras
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?


Well if it looks even remotely like the Blessed Virgin, call your local
TV news guy, then get ready to start selling tickets and souvenirs...

You know, I think I do see a face in there. Or it may just be a giant
Rorschach test -- but then I thought all of those looked like beavers.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in shade,
so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Where the pavers from the same lot?

I'm nominating this one for best idea of the week.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Joseph Capgras"
wrote in message ...

Well if it looks even remotely like the Blessed Virgin, call your
local
TV news guy, then get ready to start selling tickets and souvenirs...

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

Any chance that the rest of the pavers that were not in the shade just
dried more thoroughly from the sun and what you are seeing is higher
moisture in the ones that were shaded? A paver that feels dry to the
touch can still have higher moisture content. And moisture content
definitely affects color. Try drying one with a heat gun or hair
dryer?

Paul F.

On May 19, 4:55*pm, Paul Franklin
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

Any chance that the rest of the pavers that were not in the shade just
dried more thoroughly from the sun and what you are seeing is higher
moisture in the ones that were shaded? *A paver that feels dry to the
touch can still have higher moisture content. *And moisture content
definitely affects color. Try drying one with a heat gun or hair
dryer?

Paul F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ny thoughts exactly!!!

hr(bob) wrote:
On May 19, 4:55 pm, Paul Franklin
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).
The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.
It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.
Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?
We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.
I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?
Any chance that the rest of the pavers that were not in the shade just
dried more thoroughly from the sun and what you are seeing is higher
moisture in the ones that were shaded? A paver that feels dry to the
touch can still have higher moisture content. And moisture content
definitely affects color. Try drying one with a heat gun or hair
dryer?

Paul F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ny thoughts exactly!!!

Mine too. I redid a little walkway with some square patio block and
crushed marble stone. I got rid of the stone and made it all block, I
had extra blocks from another location. After a rain half of the block
was dark and half was light. I redid the walkway again so when it's
somewhere between wet and dry, it looks like a checkerboard. When it's
all dry you would never notice a difference in the blocks.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in shade,
so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?

As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 11:32:07 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:05:53 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a
large stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the
morning. The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more
brown than orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly
overhead. The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap?
I stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything.
The stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was
painted oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine.
PLus, I;m pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

Aphid (or other insect) "dew"?

I called an arborist and that's what he said. But all within a few
hours? He's coming over to take a look.

Go out and watch the space below the tree in full sun with a dark background.
Sometimes it will look like a fine rain if you have a bad case of aphids. Or,
look at the leaves for the bugs.

Unfortunately, it's been cloudly the last couple of days. I did stand
under the tree several times. I could not see or feel anything. I also
felt as many leaves as I could reach. They were dry (not sticky) and I
could not see any insects or sap.

I also called a local arborist. He said that if it was aphids, the
stain would be black, not rust colored, and would be caused my mold (I
think). He also said it could not happen in one day.

On Wed, 19 May 2010 17:12:09 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'm nominating this one for best idea of the week.

Really? You think the Virgin Mary appearing in a stain on a driveway
is any different than some guy in upstate NY digging up some "golden
plates", or Native Americans coming from the Holy Land in a submarine
(clearly impossible based on DNA evidence), or god allowing a bunch of
dirty old men to take dozens of wives and then changing his mind when
Utah wanted to become a state, or several million people being
protected from satan by magic underwear?

Really?

On Wed, 19 May 2010 17:55:32 -0400, Paul Franklin
wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

Any chance that the rest of the pavers that were not in the shade just
dried more thoroughly from the sun and what you are seeing is higher
moisture in the ones that were shaded? A paver that feels dry to the
touch can still have higher moisture content. And moisture content
definitely affects color. Try drying one with a heat gun or hair
dryer?

Well, the pavers have been in for several weeks. We've had rain and
hot days during that period. Whether they were wet or dry, they all
looked more or less the same. No stains. Two days ago, this stain
appeared in one day. It's still there. It does not follow the edges of
the pavers. It looks exactly like the shadow of the overhanging tree.

I didn't try the heat gun, because it's not close to an outlet. I'm
going to try various cleaners today. If that doesn't work, I'll try
the heat gun, but I can't see how that would explain the stain.

Check out the photos I uploaded. (Posted to another reply.)

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

A few weeks ago, we replaced the 40-year-old asphalt on our driveway
with pavers. Yesterday afternoon, when I came home, I noticed a large
stain that I am 99% positive was not there when I left in the morning.
The pavers are grey. The stain is an orangish-brown (more brown than
orange).

The stain is roughly the same shape as the shadow that would be cast
by the tree in the neighbor's yard if the sun were directly overhead.
The tree looks like a birch or beech tree.

It looks like something is dripping off that tree. Could it be sap? I
stood under it and didn't feel anything and I can see anything. The
stain is dry, not sticky. It's also very even, like it was painted
oon, not speckled, so if it dripped, it was something fine. PLus, I;m
pretty sure it happened in just a few hours.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be and, more importantly,
how to remove it?

We never saw anything like this on the old asphalt driveway, which was
also grey.

I can take a photo if that would help. Is there some good place to
upload it?

My wife says "enough already". I have to get rid of the stain and she
doesn't care if I figure out where it came from. ;-)

I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?

As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?

On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:51:23 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?

As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?

That's what I think. A local arborist (by phone) ruled out aphids and
he said pollen was unlikely.

At this point, I am more interested in how to remove it.

Bob F wrote:
Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.
Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/
Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?
As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?



I've only looked at the first picture so far. Looking at the lower
portion of the picture, it looks like the strip along the edge nearest
the hedge is of a different color, even where the "stain" isn't present.

What was there before the pavers were installed? Contacted the
contractor? County extension service"? Any work done in the area of
the stain since the pavers were installed? I would not try any
correction or cleaning before finding out what caused the stain.

On May 20, 9:03*am, Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:51:23 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:





Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Here are 3 photos:

1.http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.

2.http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".

3.http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.

Where the pavers from the same lot?

As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?

That's what I think. A local arborist (by phone) ruled out aphids and
he said pollen was unlikely.

At this point, I am more interested in how to remove it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me if this was covered, but unless you plan on removing the
tree, won't this (tannin?) stain come right back?

On Thu, 20 May 2010 09:12:17 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

On May 20, 9:03*am, Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:51:23 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:





Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.

Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/

Here are 3 photos:

1.http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.

2.http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".

3.http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.

Where the pavers from the same lot?

As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?

That's what I think. A local arborist (by phone) ruled out aphids and
he said pollen was unlikely.

At this point, I am more interested in how to remove it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me if this was covered, but unless you plan on removing the
tree, won't this (tannin?) stain come right back?

That's a concern, of course. Removing the tree is not an option, but
if I can figure out what it is, maybe it can be treated or prevented.
Or maybe that will suggest how best to remove it.

It's a beautiful tree. If I have to clean the driveway 1-2/year, I'll
live with that.

We've lived here for 20 years and this has never happened before,
unless it was not visible on the old asphalt driveway.

On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:10:11 -0400, "
wrote:

Bob F wrote:
Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.
Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/
Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?
As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.

Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?



I've only looked at the first picture so far. Looking at the lower
portion of the picture, it looks like the strip along the edge nearest
the hedge is of a different color, even where the "stain" isn't present.

You have a sharp eye! I hadn't noticed that before.

I just went out to take a look at that area. The pavers that are under
the hedge overhang do look cleaner or brighter than those just outside
the overhand. Then I looked up at the tree. The tree that I suspect,
actually is wider than the stain. It extends several feet toward the
bottom of the first photo. But there is another smaller tree of a
different species under it. I suspect that the smaller tree prevented
some of whatever dropped down from reaching the driveway. You can't
see it on this photo, but the stain does seem to extend to thge bottom
of the photo.

As you can see, the hedge is not straight. When we put the pavers in,
we had to make a decision about that edge. We decided to have a
straight edge on the pavers knowing that the hedge would overhang a
bit in that area. We planned to cut the hedge back to a straight line,
but haven't gotten around to it yet.

What was there before the pavers were installed?

It was an asphalt driveway that was at least 40 years old. The pavers
are very close to the same footprint as the old driveway.

Contacted the contractor? County extension service"?

And ask what?

Any work done in the area of
the stain since the pavers were installed?

The pavers have been in about a month. The city has been digging up
the street for new utility lines. That started at least a month before
the new driveway and is still not done. But I cannot see how that
could cause a stain like this that has so many indications of falling
from above.

I would not try any
correction or cleaning before finding out what caused the stain.

I may not have that luxury. My wife has a big party on Saturday. I
will be in hot water if the stain is not gone. I even suggested
parking a car in that spot.

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:10:11 -0400, "
wrote:

Bob F wrote:
Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2010 10:50:29 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:

I just went out and took a few photos. The driveway is still in
shade, so they aren't that good.
Post them at tinypic.com and provide a link here in the group.

http://tinypic.com/
Here are 3 photos:


1. http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6

This view shows the entire stain. It is rust colored. It looks a bit
darker than the photo shows. Viewing the photo from just below
horizontal gives a good image.

The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.


2. http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6

This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".


3. http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6

This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.



Where the pavers from the same lot?
As far as I know. They arrived on 3-4 pallets and I believe the
wrapper had the same lot number.

In any case, they were all the same color when first installed and the
stain appeared in one day.
Noticeing that the stain doesn't occur below the hedge, it is pretty clear that
the stain is something dropping from the tree. Aphid dew, other bug waste, or
pollen?


I've only looked at the first picture so far. Looking at the lower
portion of the picture, it looks like the strip along the edge nearest
the hedge is of a different color, even where the "stain" isn't present.

You have a sharp eye! I hadn't noticed that before.

I just went out to take a look at that area. The pavers that are under
the hedge overhang do look cleaner or brighter than those just outside
the overhand. Then I looked up at the tree. The tree that I suspect,
actually is wider than the stain. It extends several feet toward the
bottom of the first photo. But there is another smaller tree of a
different species under it. I suspect that the smaller tree prevented
some of whatever dropped down from reaching the driveway. You can't
see it on this photo, but the stain does seem to extend to thge bottom
of the photo.

As you can see, the hedge is not straight. When we put the pavers in,
we had to make a decision about that edge. We decided to have a
straight edge on the pavers knowing that the hedge would overhang a
bit in that area. We planned to cut the hedge back to a straight line,
but haven't gotten around to it yet.

What was there before the pavers were installed?

It was an asphalt driveway that was at least 40 years old. The pavers
are very close to the same footprint as the old driveway.

Contacted the contractor? County extension service"?

And ask what?

If the contractor has been in business a while, he may have seen the
problem before. My county extension service has entomologists on staff
- they have answered all the bug questions I have taken to them. Your
issue it so peculiar, it is maddening ) Even if it is bug droppings,
it is odd that the breeze didn't carry them into a broader distribution.
I'd try laying down white cardboard to see what lands ) I'm a
dedicated detective and hate when I can't figure stuff out ) Does the
neighbor on that side have a sprinkler that could hit the area? Would
have to be a mighty dose of rusty water to cause a stain in such a short
period of time.


Any work done in the area of
the stain since the pavers were installed?

The pavers have been in about a month. The city has been digging up
the street for new utility lines. That started at least a month before
the new driveway and is still not done. But I cannot see how that
could cause a stain like this that has so many indications of falling
from above.

I would not try any
correction or cleaning before finding out what caused the stain.

I may not have that luxury. My wife has a big party on Saturday. I
will be in hot water if the stain is not gone. I even suggested
parking a car in that spot.

Then you'll get oil stains and it will be YOUR fault ;o) Get a ladder
out and have your wife climb up there and see what kind of bugs are in
the tree...

"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:


I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Try some lemon juice from the bottle on a very small area. Let it sit for a
minute and rinse well.

While we are at it, how deep is the paver base in this area? Everyone
thinks the stain is from above. What if it is coming from a chemical
reaction from below? Some trees secrete nasty stuff from the roots though I
am at a complete loss as to what it might be in your case. I recall getting
orange hands while pulling out the roots of some tree/bush.

Colbyt

Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 09:12:17 -0700 (PDT), mike
wrote:

On May 20, 9:03 am, Prof Wonmug wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:51:23 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

....

1.http://tinypic.com/r/v78j74/6
This view shows the entire stain. ...
The shape is about the same as the tree shadow. Notice the clean strip
under the hedge. This seems to me to confirm that it came from above.
2.http://tinypic.com/r/i70xlj/6
This is a slightly closer view. The stain area was never "wet".
3.http://tinypic.com/r/21bkaig/6
This is a closeup view. Notice that within the larger stain, there are
areas that are less stained. It seems to me that if it rained down
from above, it would have stained everywhere about the same.

None of the pictures show the tree itself which means can't identify it
for certain nor see anything that might be telling about it.

....

That's what I think. A local arborist (by phone) ruled out aphids and
he said pollen was unlikely.

The shape certainly is conclusive it came from the tree; again w/o more
details on the source it's not reasonable to expect too much on
discerning the actual cause since it's a result not a cause.

At this point, I am more interested in how to remove it....

Excuse me if this was covered, but unless you plan on removing the
tree, won't this (tannin?) stain come right back?

That's a concern, of course. Removing the tree is not an option, but
if I can figure out what it is, maybe it can be treated or prevented.
Or maybe that will suggest how best to remove it.

See above...

It's a beautiful tree. If I have to clean the driveway 1-2/year, I'll
live with that.

We've lived here for 20 years and this has never happened before,
unless it was not visible on the old asphalt driveway.

More than likely; unless there is an infestation of something this year
which is possible but not terribly likely to have not been at least
earlier signs if so--problem generally grow w/ time rather than come in
full bloom initially, so to speak.

As for the clean up, pressure wash and what goes away goes away and what
doesn't, doesn't. There are surely more significant issues to worry
about????

--

On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:20:00 -0400, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:


I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Try some lemon juice from the bottle on a very small area. Let it sit for a
minute and rinse well.

I'll give that a try.

While we are at it, how deep is the paver base in this area? Everyone
thinks the stain is from above. What if it is coming from a chemical
reaction from below? Some trees secrete nasty stuff from the roots though I
am at a complete loss as to what it might be in your case. I recall getting
orange hands while pulling out the roots of some tree/bush.

I can't see it coming from below. The pavers are 3-4 inches thick.
Under that is about 2-3 inches of gravel. Under that is 2-3 inches of
new dirt leveled and compacted. And, the stain appeared in just a few
hours and is in the exact shape of the tree shadow.

Anyway, thanks for the lemon juice suggestion.

Prof Wonmug wrote the following:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:20:00 -0400, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:


I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Try some lemon juice from the bottle on a very small area. Let it sit for a
minute and rinse well.


I'll give that a try.


While we are at it, how deep is the paver base in this area? Everyone
thinks the stain is from above. What if it is coming from a chemical
reaction from below? Some trees secrete nasty stuff from the roots though I
am at a complete loss as to what it might be in your case. I recall getting
orange hands while pulling out the roots of some tree/bush.


I can't see it coming from below. The pavers are 3-4 inches thick.
Under that is about 2-3 inches of gravel. Under that is 2-3 inches of
new dirt leveled and compacted. And, the stain appeared in just a few
hours and is in the exact shape of the tree shadow.

Anyway, thanks for the lemon juice suggestion.

Pavers are stored outdoors in all kinds of weather. They probably get
saturated and take time to dry out. The pavers that were put down in the
sun probably dried enough, but the ones in the shade are still damp. You
probably noticed the difference because when the pavers were freshly
laid, they were all equally damp.
Spray some water on the dry ones around the shaded area and see if they
all become the same color as the shaded ones.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

willshak wrote:
Prof Wonmug wrote the following:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:20:00 -0400, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:


I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Try some lemon juice from the bottle on a very small area. Let it
sit for a minute and rinse well.


I'll give that a try.


While we are at it, how deep is the paver base in this area?
Everyone thinks the stain is from above. What if it is coming from a
chemical reaction from below? Some trees secrete nasty stuff from
the roots though I am at a complete loss as to what it might be in
your case. I recall getting orange hands while pulling out the roots
of some tree/bush.


I can't see it coming from below. The pavers are 3-4 inches thick.
Under that is about 2-3 inches of gravel. Under that is 2-3 inches of
new dirt leveled and compacted. And, the stain appeared in just a few
hours and is in the exact shape of the tree shadow.
Anyway, thanks for the lemon juice suggestion.

Pavers are stored outdoors in all kinds of weather. They probably get
saturated and take time to dry out. The pavers that were put down in the
sun probably dried enough, but the ones in the shade are still damp. You
probably noticed the difference because when the pavers were freshly
laid, they were all equally damp.
Spray some water on the dry ones around the shaded area and see if they
all become the same color as the shaded ones.

Mebbe they are Chinese pavers with iron waste mixed in that started to rust?

"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:20:00 -0400, "Colbyt"
wrote:


"Prof Wonmug" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:12:15 -0700, Prof Wonmug wrote:


I'm going to try some bleach and some standard cleaners on some small
areas. Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of cleaner might
be most effective?

Try some lemon juice from the bottle on a very small area. Let it sit for
a
minute and rinse well.

I'll give that a try.

While we are at it, how deep is the paver base in this area? Everyone
thinks the stain is from above. What if it is coming from a chemical
reaction from below? Some trees secrete nasty stuff from the roots though
I
am at a complete loss as to what it might be in your case. I recall
getting
orange hands while pulling out the roots of some tree/bush.

I can't see it coming from below. The pavers are 3-4 inches thick.
Under that is about 2-3 inches of gravel. Under that is 2-3 inches of
new dirt leveled and compacted. And, the stain appeared in just a few
hours and is in the exact shape of the tree shadow.

Anyway, thanks for the lemon juice suggestion.

Why don't you just call the contractor up and ask him to take a look. He
might know a helluva lot more than the people here. If not too many pavers
are involved, he might even be nice enough to replace them for you at a
reduced price or for free.