Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the
rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
"Peter" wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote:
wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. Thanks for the clarification and the feedback. Yes, I was using "lamp" and "fixture" interchangeably, in distinction from the "bulb". You're right, "bulb" and "lamp" are closer in meaning; "fixture" is the entire unit from plug to bulb. I opened the "brick"(held together by 4 small recessed screws)after sending my inquiry and it appears to contain only a ballast with 2 wires at each end (this conforms with the wiring diagram on the ballast label). The label identifies the ballast as a Fu-chi brand PC-4526P-B 300 mA for PL-C 18w. Extensive work on Google has failed to yield a useful hit for a replacement. The closest I saw had 3 output wires and no dimensions were provided. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
"Peter" wrote in message ... On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. Thanks for the clarification and the feedback. Yes, I was using "lamp" and "fixture" interchangeably, in distinction from the "bulb". You're right, "bulb" and "lamp" are closer in meaning; "fixture" is the entire unit from plug to bulb. I opened the "brick"(held together by 4 small recessed screws)after sending my inquiry and it appears to contain only a ballast with 2 wires at each end (this conforms with the wiring diagram on the ballast label). The label identifies the ballast as a Fu-chi brand PC-4526P-B 300 mA for PL-C 18w. Extensive work on Google has failed to yield a useful hit for a replacement. The closest I saw had 3 output wires and no dimensions were provided. That's what happens when Google gets kicked out of China. It may be possible to get a replacement from the manufacturer of the fixture, but more and more, I'm finding that approach fruitless as well. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
If you are able to find parts they are likely to cost more than a new
fixture. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
So, so true. It's a shame, but this is a throw away society.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Pat" wrote in message nvilleaccesscompany... If you are able to find parts they are likely to cost more than a new fixture. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote:
wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. OK, it seems unanimous here and on alt.engineering.electrical. If the problem is the ballast, I'm ditching the fixture. Used every search engine I can think of, including metabrowsers and I couldn't locate a replacement (if this were a shop light I would have an embarrassment of riches deciding where to buy). Too bad, I probably didn't use the fixture for more than about 300 hours. I think I paid about $25 for the fixture on sale at an art supply store about 3 years ago. Maybe that's why the item was on sale! I think I'll stick to the old fashioned fixture that requires you to hold down the on button while the filaments heat up, and then release the button. Those seem to last forever (or as long as the switch does!) |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. Thanks for the clarification and the feedback. Yes, I was using "lamp" and "fixture" interchangeably, in distinction from the "bulb". You're right, "bulb" and "lamp" are closer in meaning; "fixture" is the entire unit from plug to bulb. I opened the "brick"(held together by 4 small recessed screws)after sending my inquiry and it appears to contain only a ballast with 2 wires at each end (this conforms with the wiring diagram on the ballast label). The label identifies the ballast as a Fu-chi brand PC-4526P-B 300 mA for PL-C 18w. Extensive work on Google has failed to yield a useful hit for a replacement. The closest I saw had 3 output wires and no dimensions were provided. Sounds like a standard 18 watt ballast. Just go to an electrical lighting store probably cost about $6. I bought one a few months ago at Lowes on closeout, cost me 18 cents. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. OK, it seems unanimous here and on alt.engineering.electrical. If the problem is the ballast, I'm ditching the fixture. Used every search engine I can think of, including metabrowsers and I couldn't locate a replacement (if this were a shop light I would have an embarrassment of riches deciding where to buy). Too bad, I probably didn't use the fixture for more than about 300 hours. I think I paid about $25 for the fixture on sale at an art supply store about 3 years ago. Maybe that's why the item was on sale! I think I'll stick to the old fashioned fixture that requires you to hold down the on button while the filaments heat up, and then release the button. Those seem to last forever (or as long as the switch does!) Did you try switching the starters? |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Tony wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. OK, it seems unanimous here and on alt.engineering.electrical. If the problem is the ballast, I'm ditching the fixture. Used every search engine I can think of, including metabrowsers and I couldn't locate a replacement (if this were a shop light I would have an embarrassment of riches deciding where to buy). Too bad, I probably didn't use the fixture for more than about 300 hours. I think I paid about $25 for the fixture on sale at an art supply store about 3 years ago. Maybe that's why the item was on sale! I think I'll stick to the old fashioned fixture that requires you to hold down the on button while the filaments heat up, and then release the button. Those seem to last forever (or as long as the switch does!) Did you try switching the starters? It's a manual start light fixture where you push and hold a button for a second or two. TDD |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Tony wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. OK, it seems unanimous here and on alt.engineering.electrical. If the problem is the ballast, I'm ditching the fixture. Used every search engine I can think of, including metabrowsers and I couldn't locate a replacement (if this were a shop light I would have an embarrassment of riches deciding where to buy). Too bad, I probably didn't use the fixture for more than about 300 hours. I think I paid about $25 for the fixture on sale at an art supply store about 3 years ago. Maybe that's why the item was on sale! I think I'll stick to the old fashioned fixture that requires you to hold down the on button while the filaments heat up, and then release the button. Those seem to last forever (or as long as the switch does!) Did you try switching the starters? It's a manual start light fixture where you push and hold a button for a second or two. TDD OOPS! Sorry, premature postification. That's a different fixture that may actually have a starter. TDD |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/24/2010 10:45 AM, Tony wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. OK, it seems unanimous here and on alt.engineering.electrical. If the problem is the ballast, I'm ditching the fixture. Used every search engine I can think of, including metabrowsers and I couldn't locate a replacement (if this were a shop light I would have an embarrassment of riches deciding where to buy). Too bad, I probably didn't use the fixture for more than about 300 hours. I think I paid about $25 for the fixture on sale at an art supply store about 3 years ago. Maybe that's why the item was on sale! I think I'll stick to the old fashioned fixture that requires you to hold down the on button while the filaments heat up, and then release the button. Those seem to last forever (or as long as the switch does!) Did you try switching the starters? The fixture has no starter that I could find. If I found 1, it would be the 1st thing I'd do. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. The capacitor is for suppressing radio interference, you can install or leave it out. Get a starter that matches the wattage of your lamp. The starters will often operate over a wide range. You can actually test the rest of the light fixture (carefully) if you briefly short across the starter wires and see if the light comes on. That's what the old style push to start fluorescent desk lamps do. You can get tiny crimp connectors form your local Radio Shack for the small wires but soldering will do. TDD |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. Yes, an FS-2 should work fine. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:32:44 -0400, Tony
wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/23/2010 10:56 AM, RBM wrote: wrote in message ... I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? I think that what you're calling the "lamp", what I would call the fixture, has a bad ballast transformer. If it is integral to the fixture, it's probably not worth trying to replace. Thanks for the clarification and the feedback. Yes, I was using "lamp" and "fixture" interchangeably, in distinction from the "bulb". You're right, "bulb" and "lamp" are closer in meaning; "fixture" is the entire unit from plug to bulb. I opened the "brick"(held together by 4 small recessed screws)after sending my inquiry and it appears to contain only a ballast with 2 wires at each end (this conforms with the wiring diagram on the ballast label). The label identifies the ballast as a Fu-chi brand PC-4526P-B 300 mA for PL-C 18w. Extensive work on Google has failed to yield a useful hit for a replacement. The closest I saw had 3 output wires and no dimensions were provided. Sounds like a standard 18 watt ballast. Just go to an electrical lighting store probably cost about $6. I bought one a few months ago at Lowes on closeout, cost me 18 cents. Turning the plug around makes no difference? How about grounding the fixture? Flourescent tube lamps basically require a "ground plane" to light properly - sometimes simply "stroking" the tube when you power it on will make it light. |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
|
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
|
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." You should read a little further on the link you posted. Yes the glow tube can be neon, but it is not just a neon lamp. Try reading this part: "The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open." (whoa, say that again!) *The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open.* (one more time?) _The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open._ OMG, there is even more on your link! "When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. Now be a man and admit you were wrong. |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/24/2010 9:10 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. TDD Follow up: I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
|
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/24/2010 3:18 PM, Tony wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. Yes, an FS-2 should work fine. Follow up: It didn't work. I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 02:29:12 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." THE NE2 LAMP WILL NOT WORK AS A STARTER!!! GEEZ!!! YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW IT WORKS IF YOU THINK A NE2 LAMP IS THE SAME THING!! LOOK IT UP! What a moron. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:51:46 -0400, Tony wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." You should read a little further on the link you posted. Yes the glow tube can be neon, but it is not just a neon lamp. Try reading this part: "The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open." (whoa, say that again!) *The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open.* (one more time?) _The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open._ OMG, there is even more on your link! "When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. Now be a man and admit you were wrong. Oh, you mean they don't have a neon tube in them? Funny, it said they did. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 3:18 PM, Tony wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. Yes, an FS-2 should work fine. Follow up: It didn't work. I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? I don't recall ever seeing a starter for 14 to 20 watt bulbs besides the FS-2. I do recall though seeing many FS-2's that didn't list 18 watts. I have no idea why they are like that, but the -2 is the proper starter. Are you really sure the starter from the "junk box" isn't junk? I'd also try the other bulb again with that starter. As far as a different wattage starter, sometimes when a bulb is going bad, but still works sometimes, the wrong type starter will sometimes work for a while. It's not a fix, it's a patch, and not even a good one. Lets back up. How are you with electrical circuits... meaning would you remove the starter again and short the two ends from the lamp together to see if it lights? (plugged in and turned on) Shorting it only for a second or less, the ends of the bulb glow, opening the short and the bulb should fully light and stay lit. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:51:46 -0400, Tony wrote: zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." You should read a little further on the link you posted. Yes the glow tube can be neon, but it is not just a neon lamp. Try reading this part: "The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open." (whoa, say that again!) *The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open.* (one more time?) _The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open._ OMG, there is even more on your link! "When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. Now be a man and admit you were wrong. Oh, you mean they don't have a neon tube in them? Funny, it said they did. Yes a sometimes neon, but always with a bimetal contact inside. That makes it a starter. Are you saying that NE2 neon bulbs have bimetal contacts inside them? |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/25/2010 2:17 PM, Tony wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 3:18 PM, Tony wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 12:30 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? If you get a standard starter look at the contact end and if it has a aluminum can, you can bend the tabs back and remove the guts and there will be the silvered bulb with a capacitor in parallel with it. Some of the new starters are in a plastic can but you can open them too. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close providing current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The inductive kick generated at the instant of opening triggers the main discharge in the fluorescent tube. If the contacts open at a bad time - current near zero, there isn't enough inductive kick and the process repeats. That's the tink, tink sound you hear. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm TDD Can I use the glow tube from an FS-2 starter (rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs) or do you recommend a different standard starter? Also, my socket does not seem to be using the capacitor; I assume that I should ignore that component and just replace the defective glow tube with the new one. Yes, an FS-2 should work fine. Follow up: It didn't work. I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? I don't recall ever seeing a starter for 14 to 20 watt bulbs besides the FS-2. I do recall though seeing many FS-2's that didn't list 18 watts. I have no idea why they are like that, but the -2 is the proper starter. Are you really sure the starter from the "junk box" isn't junk? I'd also try the other bulb again with that starter. As far as a different wattage starter, sometimes when a bulb is going bad, but still works sometimes, the wrong type starter will sometimes work for a while. It's not a fix, it's a patch, and not even a good one. Lets back up. How are you with electrical circuits... meaning would you remove the starter again and short the two ends from the lamp together to see if it lights? (plugged in and turned on) Shorting it only for a second or less, the ends of the bulb glow, opening the short and the bulb should fully light and stay lit. Got a lot of other stuff going on right now. As soon as I get a chance, I'll first try a different bulb (although as I previously noted, this bulb works perfectly normally in the other identical fixture). The starter I took from my junk box is a GE brand; it was in an unopened blister pack. Could be bad, but I would guess, probably not. Although it was really difficult for me to get the leads soldered (only had about 1/8" overlap to work with), I guess before I trash the fixture it would be worthwhile to open one of the solder joints and try to short across the lamp. I'm comfortable I can do that without getting a shock. However, if that works, it doesn't solve the problem with the FS-2 glow bulb substitution unless I really get creative with a normally open SPST switch (for which there is no room in or on the fixture). |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. TDD You are right - I was wrong - it is not a simple NE2 bulb - Long time since starters were common, and as a kid we used to canibalize starters to use the glow tube in place of NE2 bulbs for things like oscillators. |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:25:18 -0400, Tony wrote:
wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:51:46 -0400, Tony wrote: zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." You should read a little further on the link you posted. Yes the glow tube can be neon, but it is not just a neon lamp. Try reading this part: "The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open." (whoa, say that again!) *The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open.* (one more time?) _The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open._ OMG, there is even more on your link! "When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open. Now be a man and admit you were wrong. Oh, you mean they don't have a neon tube in them? Funny, it said they did. Yes a sometimes neon, but always with a bimetal contact inside. That makes it a starter. Are you saying that NE2 neon bulbs have bimetal contacts inside them? I never said there were NE2 bulbs inside. Learn to read. |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. TDD You are right - I was wrong - it is not a simple NE2 bulb - Long time since starters were common, and as a kid we used to canibalize starters to use the glow tube in place of NE2 bulbs for things like oscillators. No problem, I like being corrected so I can learn. Heck, I have no fear of terrorists because as a small boy, I had Irish nuns for teachers. They used tactile and extreme audio correction. I still have knots on my head dating from the middle of the last century. TDD |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
Peter wrote:
On 4/24/2010 9:10 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. TDD Follow up: I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? Try another starter. What is the actual wattage of the lamp? You can use alligator clip jumpers to try another starter or to short across the connection for a second to heat the filaments in the lamp and see if it will start. You can use jumpers to try all sorts of parts in the circuit. The most value that you get from this is the learning experience. I've had people admonish me for working on something that's not worth the trouble because anyone could buy a new one for little money. I've even gone to thrift stores and bought junk so I could take it apart to learn how it works, I consider it entertainment. TDD |
#38
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
On 4/26/2010 7:35 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 9:10 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. TDD Follow up: I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior. Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that? Try another starter. What is the actual wattage of the lamp? You can use alligator clip jumpers to try another starter or to short across the connection for a second to heat the filaments in the lamp and see if it will start. You can use jumpers to try all sorts of parts in the circuit. The most value that you get from this is the learning experience. I've had people admonish me for working on something that's not worth the trouble because anyone could buy a new one for little money. I've even gone to thrift stores and bought junk so I could take it apart to learn how it works, I consider it entertainment. TDD The lamp is a G24q-2 dual tube 18W. The glob bulb I cannibalized was from a GE brand FS-2 starter still in a sealed bubble card. I will try to short across the connections when I get a little break in my work schedule. |
#39
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
In , wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: On 4/24/2010 11:12 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: Peter wrote: I've got a "no-name" clamp-on fluorescent lamp that no longer starts when the rocker switch is snapped from the off to the on position. The lamp has a polarized plug with an in-line black "brick" 7 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1 3/8" that has the code "G0138" stamped above the code "GG10051F" on the bottom but no other markings. The 2 conductor cord from the brick goes to the base of the lamp where the clamp is located. The lamp uses a single 18W 4 pin double tube bulb with code G24q-2. I'm sure that the bulb is good because I have a second, identical lamp (that works normally) and when I swap the bulbs, the "good" lamp works perfectly with the bulb from the lamp that is not working. I also have a brand new spare bulb that I've tried in the non-functional fixture and it too fails to light in the bad fixture. The problem started spontaneously with no earlier indication of problems. Normally, when the lamp is turned on, there are a few quick white flashes in the bulb and the bulb lights and glows steadily. The behavior I observe is that when I snap the rocker switch to on, the bulb either has one quick white flash but then I only see the heaters glowing in each of the two tubes, or there is no white flash at all, and all I see is the glow of the heater filaments. I've tried plugging the lamp into another outlet in case the problem was related to grounding (I've read that these quick start bulbs need their circuits and fixtures to be grounded to work properly) but it did not help. The "brick" has always been entirely quiet and never got particularly warm, and that has not changed. Any suggestions (besides ditching the lamp)? Someone mentioned this already and got me thinking. The older fixtures like yours have a replaceable starter that is easily accessed. For cost savings, your fixture may have a starter hard wired into the fixture itself. Turn on one of the good fixtures and listen closely the part of the fixture on either end of the lamp, if you hear a couple of clicks that may have a sound like "tink", it could be a starter. You could easily disassemble the fixture and take the guts from a standard starter and use the parts to replace what's in there. There is also the possibility that instead of a conventional starter, there could be a thermistor like what is in an old TV degaussing circuit. You won't know unless you take it apart. TDD The fixture always did start with a "tink" "tink" "tink" each one corresponding to a flash of the bulb. I don't hear that noise at all now. I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. No, do not use an NE-2. Use the bulb that can be gutted from an FS-2 starter. A starter bulb has a bimetal strip that bends from the heat of the glow discharge in it, and temporarily shorts. This is explained in Sam Goldwasser's Fluorescent Lamp/Fixture FAQ. I have a copy (possibly older but definitely relevant) at: http://members.misty.com/don/f-lamp.html Official copies are available somewhere in www.repairfaq.org and http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu. Look, I found one: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_flamp.html Do a text search in one of these for "Fluorescent Starter Operation". The NE-2 is a neon lamp that is intended only to take current amounting to less than 1 milliamp. If it is substituted for a starter in an 18 watt 120V fluorescent fixture, it will conduct somewhere in the ballpark of 300 milliamps. It is unlikely to get the fluorescent lamp started, and will definitely suffer serious damage within seconds. It could even break in as little as 10's of seconds. - Don Klipstein ) |
#40
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?
In , zzz wrote,
edited by me for space: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:10:54 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: wrote: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:57:29 -0400, Peter wrote: SNIP to here to edit for space I was able to pull off the rotating shade, unscrew the bulb socket, pull it out about 2", and observe a 1" glass bulb that looks almost like a neon bulb with an opaque mercury-like metallic coating on the inside of the glass bulb. There are 2 wires coming out of the base of this little bulb, 1 connected to the black, and the other to the white power wires that enter the base of the socket. Perhaps this is the hard-wired starter? There are no markings on it at all. I reattached the bulb, plugged in the fixture, and turn it on while observing the little glass bulb. Nothing at all; no glow, no sparks, no "tink" "tink" "tink". What do I replace it with? Try an NE2 bulb? That's what used to be in the old starters. ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works. Most starters were neon. http://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm "The most common fluorescent starter is called a "glow tube starter" (or just starter) and contains a small gas (neon, etc.) filled tube and an optional radio frequency interference (RFI) suppression capacitor in a cylindrical aluminum can with a 2 pin base." I have looked at the color of glow produced by many of those. My experience as of the late 1970's was that few produced a neon-like color, and that those appeared to me less-modern-than-usual as of then. I have also seen the glow from the starters built into PL-13 CFLs. My experience is that most starters produce a lavendar glow of a color close to usual for argon, only a little more whitish. =================== As much as you appear to me to hate fluorescent lamps, I suspect you might be interested in a characteristic that some starters have. I thought that maybe you would have mentioned this by now. Some fluorescent lamp starters are cranky about starting in complete darkness! Some of those starters are cranky about starting without assistance from the photoelectric effect. One solution was to add Kr-85 to the gas (or gas mixture) in the starter bulb. But radioactivity got to be politically incorrect. I also see that many aluminum can style starters have a hole in the center of the top of the aluminum can. I wonder if that is to allow one to see whether the starter glows, or to let light into the starter. -- - Don Klipstein ) |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
flourescent lamp fixture | Home Repair | |||
Flourescent light problem | Home Repair | |||
flourescent light problem | Home Repair | |||
Flourescent lamp wasting power - Why? | Home Repair | |||
Flourescent Lamp switch Question. | Electronics Repair |