I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.


Hmm,
More likely you'll end up dead fob. I'd rather carry it in a little
sturdy pouch if I need to.

I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00

Robert Green wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.




How about a tiny nylon washer or O ring under the pushbuttons? That
would require more effort to push the button, and reduce accidental
activation.

On Apr 19, 12:50*pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. *It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. *It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. *That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. *That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. *The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. *You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. *In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. *So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. *Plus, it came unglued more than once. *There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. * Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in *advance!

--
Bobby G.

Here's what worked for my wife's 2005 Ford Taurus, with the factory
installed anti-theft system:

1 - Have an after-market Remote Starter installed. You will get a fob
specific to that starter.
2 - Whenever you exit the vehicle, lock the doors with the switch
mounted on the door, not with the Remote Starter fob.

You will never accidentally (or intentially) unlock the doors with the
Remote Starter fob, because...

The Ford's anti-theft system is set up so that if the doors are locked
with internal door switch, it arms the system such that the *only* fob
that will unlock the doors is the factory fob, which, of course, is
hanging on the hook at home because you only carry the Remote Starter
fob.

"Robert Green" wrote in
:

I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.
snip
The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032
coin cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I
could scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That
way, I could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as
well as the desired command button each time a command was sent. That
approach makes it a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF
switch could still be worked with one hand.

Before you scrape circuit traces or install switches, please try a simple
experiment:

Remove the battery for a few hours (as if you had turned off the switch),
then reinstall the battery and see what it takes to unlock your minivan.

Many keyless entry fobs use a trickle of battery current to maintain state
information (such as where they are in a rolling code). The system can
reacquire the state, but it may take multiple presses. Furthermore, since
the state after power-off/power-on is likely to be the same each time (for
the same fob under similar conditions), you may be defeating the purpose of
the rolling code.

I may be wrong, but the experiment is a lot easier than all of the wasted
work if I am right.


Good luck!

snip

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to
do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as
the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes
it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob,
but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard
clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string
keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.

Had same problem. Glued small O rings around bottons with super glue.
Problem solved. CAUTION don;t get any glue into edge of switch buttons. ww

Robert Green :
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

I had a similar problem with a Garmin GPS. I put a ring of hot-melt
adhesive on the surface around the button(s). It was a tricky job but it
looked good and worked perfectly.

--
Mike Barnes

Here's what worked for my wife's 2005 Ford Taurus, with the factory
installed anti-theft system:

1 - Have an after-market Remote Starter installed. You will get a fob
specific to that starter.
2 - Whenever you exit the vehicle, lock the doors with the switch
mounted on the door, not with the Remote Starter fob.

You will never accidentally (or intentially) unlock the doors with the
Remote Starter fob, because...

The Ford's anti-theft system is set up so that if the doors are locked
with internal door switch, it arms the system such that the *only* fob
that will unlock the doors is the factory fob, which, of course, is
hanging on the hook at home because you only carry the Remote Starter
fob.


So, how do you get in?

--
DT

Perhaps a leather jacket for a small penknife or similar would protect it
from light touches.

I have the same problem and I swear I have never pushed some of the buttons.
The more embarrassing one is the horn alarm button that seems to be even
easier to hit in my pocket.

If you hack into the unit and have to take it to the car dealership, to be
replaced, you may find yourself talking to police authorities with lots of
questions.


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.

wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...

On Apr 19, 6:57*pm, DT wrote:
Here's what worked for my wife's 2005 Ford Taurus, with the factory
installed anti-theft system:

1 - Have an after-market Remote Starter installed. You will get a fob
specific to that starter.
2 - Whenever you exit the vehicle, lock the doors with the switch
mounted on the door, not with the Remote Starter fob.

You will never accidentally (or intentially) unlock the doors with the
Remote Starter fob, because...

The Ford's anti-theft system is set up so that if the doors are locked
with internal door switch, it arms the system such that the *only* fob
that will unlock the doors is the factory fob, which, of course, is
hanging on the hook at home because you only carry the Remote Starter
fob.

So, how do you get in?

--
DT

You have to use the key.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 19, 6:57 pm, DT wrote:
Here's what worked for my wife's 2005 Ford Taurus, with the factory
installed anti-theft system:
1 - Have an after-market Remote Starter installed. You will get a fob
specific to that starter.
2 - Whenever you exit the vehicle, lock the doors with the switch
mounted on the door, not with the Remote Starter fob.
You will never accidentally (or intentially) unlock the doors with the
Remote Starter fob, because...
The Ford's anti-theft system is set up so that if the doors are locked
with internal door switch, it arms the system such that the *only* fob
that will unlock the doors is the factory fob, which, of course, is
hanging on the hook at home because you only carry the Remote Starter
fob.
So, how do you get in?

--
DT

You have to use the key.

So what does the remote starter gain you, then? Just leave the fob at
home and use the key.

--
aem sends...

mike wrote:
Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00

Still wind up with a dead battery......
May also set off a terrorist bomb.

TDD

"Ian Shef" wrote in message
3...
"Robert Green" wrote in
:

I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.
snip
The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032
coin cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I
could scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That
way, I could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as
well as the desired command button each time a command was sent. That
approach makes it a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF
switch could still be worked with one hand.

Before you scrape circuit traces or install switches, please try a simple
experiment:

Remove the battery for a few hours (as if you had turned off the switch),
then reinstall the battery and see what it takes to unlock your minivan.

Many keyless entry fobs use a trickle of battery current to maintain state
information (such as where they are in a rolling code). The system can
reacquire the state, but it may take multiple presses. Furthermore, since
the state after power-off/power-on is likely to be the same each time (for
the same fob under similar conditions), you may be defeating the purpose
of
the rolling code.

I may be wrong, but the experiment is a lot easier than all of the wasted
work if I am right.

Even if there's only a "remote" possibility of the unit losing its
programming (I couldn't resist the pun!) it's a good thing to check. Very
good contribution, Ian, and it's a good reminder to always get someone to
review project plans!

Before reading your post, my latest thought was to cut out some thin plastic
the same size as the battery, place a contact on it, and slide it between
the battery and the case so that the battery can no longer touch the contact
on the board and then lead the contact that I attached to the plastic
insulator, run it to a tiny switch (maybe a small membrane switch attached
to the back of the fob) and then solder a return wire to the battery contact
on the board that would now be prevented from making contact with the
battery except through the new pathway. Only one point on the fob circuit
board needs to be touched doing it this way, and no traces need to be cut.

Now I'll just unload the battery from one of the keyfobs and see what
happens.

Your post got me thinking that there has to be some way of keeping the
battery alive but still require a second switch to complete the circuit.
Perhaps there's a common line from the switch to the ground that could be
interrupted so that it needed to be closed when the desired button was
pressed. Thanks for reminding me it's a good idea to try to come up with a
solution that doesn't affect any trickle current going into the IC.

I guess it's time to take pictures of both sides of the board and come up
with a rudimentary circuit diagram.

Thanks for the heads up.

Good luck!

I'll need it. Experience suggests I may, as Tony predicted, end up with a
dead fob but you know the old saying - experience is gained proportional to
the amount of equipment ruined.

--
Bobby G.

"WW" wrote in message
...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse.

stuff snipped


Had same problem. Glued small O rings around bottons with super glue.
Problem solved. CAUTION don;t get any glue into edge of switch buttons. ww

That's what I normally do, especially on things like pocket voice recorders
that have an "itchy" delete button, but this is a "designer" sort of device,
with curved, triangular shaped buttons arranged in a circular pattern. Very
hard to "washer up." The best thing would be if I could somehow make a
casting of the outer shell and build a second layer of plastic in the same
shape and size as the current cover.

I'd grind down the tops of the buttons, but they are cast rubber membranes
and that wouldn't work. JimH's solution of putting washers inside on the
circuit board to make depressing the switch require more force has promise,
but it may be hard to implement without a lot of trial and error sizing.

JimH, if you are reading this, your idea gave me another one, in combination
with this one. I can put a spacer between the two halves of the fob and
raise the frame around the buttons about an 1/8" higher all around and that
might be enough to solve the problem with the minimum of effort and bulk. A
1/8" thick piece of plastic, a tracing of the top half, a little drill and
Dremel work and it could do the trick.

Thanks for the input, WW

--
Bobby G.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

stuff snipped

I might be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob, but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard
clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string
keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Hmm,
More likely you'll end up dead fob. I'd rather carry it in a little
sturdy pouch if I need to.

I don't wanna be a dead fob. Sounds awful. (0:

The problem is that it's a weird, rounded teardrop shaped thing and only a
hard case will keep the buttons from getting accidentally depressed. I
managed to find some of the very hard clear plastic bubble packaging that
had close to a similar shape, but it was still much larger than the keyfob
itself.

I have a good friend that's a soldering pro and who used to build custom
devices for NASA that I could ask to do the soldering. He's tackled worse
for me before, soldering tiny SMD devices and repairing tiny pushbuttons.
I'd really like a solution other than a case. I tried that for a while.
The biggest problem, other than the added bulk, is that a case requires two
hands to operate, and might be very hard to do with gloves on. I already
dropped the keys into deep snow fiddling with the case once this year.
That's just one of the many reasons I don't like the case approach.

I think there's enough room if I find the right switch. I've taken some
photos. The circuit board is very sparse, consisting of traces going to the
switch, a single IC, and the power source.

Thanks for your input, Tony.

--
Bobby G.

"JimH" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to
do
something about it.

stuff snipped

How about a tiny nylon washer or O ring under the pushbuttons? That
would require more effort to push the button, and reduce accidental
activation.

That's a good idea, and one I hadn't thought of. I've done the reverse on
other things, supergluing a nylon washer collar around buttons that depress
too easily. My favorite idiotic design was a Panasonic VCR remote that was
designed so that you had to press two REC buttons that were side by side to
engage the recording function. Unfortunately, the remote was designed with
flowing curves and in such a way that when the remote was put down face
down, the entire weight of the unit came down on the two REC buttons at the
same time. More than one tape got ruined before I added a fail safe collar
to the REC buttons.

Thanks for your input, Jim, it's exactly the kind of "brain storming" idea I
was looking for.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
...
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

Not an option. This is a handicapped van, and the keyfob in needed to
activate the whole ramp deployment, kneeling and electric door activity.

Thanks anyway,

--
Bobby G.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...

Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.

"mike" wrote in message
...
Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00

We tried that method. You'd be surprised at all the things that end up in
your hands as you exit a vehicle. At least twice the fob activated just
from being clutched along with a bag and the GPS. The damn thing's too
twitchy and needs to be untwitched.

It's just unbelievable that they don't put "HOLD" switches on these things
to prevent accidental activation. Makes me believe without hesitation that
Toyota's got a design flaw in their control systems when I see crappy
form-over-function design like this from a major automaker.

Thanks for your input. I wish the problem was that cheap and that simple.

--
Bobby G.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00

Still wind up with a dead battery......
May also set off a terrorist bomb.

TDD

Please explain.

--
Bobby G.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 19, 12:50 pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse.

stuff snipped

Here's what worked for my wife's 2005 Ford Taurus, with the factory
installed anti-theft system:

1 - Have an after-market Remote Starter installed. You will get a fob
specific to that starter.
2 - Whenever you exit the vehicle, lock the doors with the switch
mounted on the door, not with the Remote Starter fob.

You will never accidentally (or intentially) unlock the doors with the
Remote Starter fob, because...

The Ford's anti-theft system is set up so that if the doors are locked
with internal door switch, it arms the system such that the *only* fob
that will unlock the doors is the factory fob, which, of course, is
hanging on the hook at home because you only carry the Remote Starter
fob.

Not sure I understand this, but as noted, this is a handicapped van and the
ramp deployment system requires the fob. It's an integral part of the
problem solution and as such, needs to be prevent from opening the door and
deploying the ramp onto a car that might be parked next to me.

Thanks for the input, though, DDIII.

--
Bobby G.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Robert Green :
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to
do
something about it.

I had a similar problem with a Garmin GPS. I put a ring of hot-melt
adhesive on the surface around the button(s). It was a tricky job but it
looked good and worked perfectly.

Mike, you must have nerves of steel and one hell of an even-flowing glue gun
to be able to sculpt glue like that. It would be beyond me. Besides, this
is a 7 button (IIRC) remote with four of the keys arranged like pie wedges
with very thin separators.

The glue method is a good technique to know, and I've used a similar one
elsewhere (superglue and washers and O-rings) but I don't think it will work
on this fob.

Thanks for the suggestion, though, Mike.

--
Bobby G.

"Josepi" wrote in message
...
Perhaps a leather jacket for a small penknife or similar would protect it
from light touches.

That's actually something I never thought of, since I was obsessed with
making something out of that indestructible clear plastic packaging that's
so difficult to open. I actually have an old MP3 player case that might be
exactly what's needed. At the worst, I could put some of that curved
packaging material into a soft case and make it hard enough to withstand
accidental pushes. Good contribution. Thanks.

I have the same problem and I swear I have never pushed some of the
buttons.
The more embarrassing one is the horn alarm button that seems to be even
easier to hit in my pocket.

The worst incident was deploying the fold out ramp by accident, turning to
try to stop it from hitting the car next to me and leaning on the van's horn
button and then grabbing the keys hard enough to hit the panic button. I
felt like everyone within 1000 feet was watching me. Yet the other day,
when someone cut in front of me, I couldn't find the right area of the
steering wheel cover to press to warn them. There's something wrong with a
design that goes off when you don't want it to, but doesn't go off when you
do.

If you hack into the unit and have to take it to the car dealership, to be
replaced, you may find yourself talking to police authorities with lots of
questions.

They've seen my van. They won't ask questions. Aside from a custom motion
sensor alarm, a rearview TV camera and on board constant loop 4 channel DVR
with a 16GB CF card, I've also added one camera for the front, left and
right side and rear window. I was once in a very bad accident where the
other party just lied their fool heads off and soaked my insurer for a *lot*
of money. It ****ed me off so much I decided to get a windshield type "dash
cam."

The dash cam I got from Ebay for about $80 was useful, but you really need
to have a record of what's happening on all four sides of you if you're in
an accident. A windshield cam won't capture the image of someone T-boning
you while they're running a red light but a side-view cam will. Put it
together from COTS parts for under $200. Starts up with the car, goes into
automatic record (with one channel of audio, too) and goes off with the car.

I am going to mod it so that I can also monitor the car when it's sitting
parked to see who's looking inside to see what's what. Thieves usually
"case the joint" first. The DVR is a small box that fits easily under the
rear seat. Cabling and mounting the cams to be unobtrusive was a problem
and still needs refinement. Right now it runs off the van battery, but I
want to mount a separate 12VDC marine battery to power the rig independently
of the van's power supply.

I got the idea from an episode of "COPS" where they rig up a car with all
sorts of cameras and remote functions. The leave the "bait" car in places
where people are likely to steal them. Apparently, that turns out to be
everywhere. With the Toyota debacle unfolding, having a "flight recorder"
in the car doesn't seem as far-fetched as it used to. With people texting
while they're driving, a visual record might come in very handy if a serious
accident occurs. And if I am at fault, a CF card goes missing. (-:

If I power it from a marine battery, I can also add a 2.4gHz transmitter and
watch what happens out of sight with my trusty Taser (they're having a big
sale on the pro-sumer model).

--
Bobby G.



"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I've got the typical minivan keyless entry keychain fob but it's got a
serious design problem.

The buttons depress too easily and often accidentally when the fob is
pushed
into a pocket or a purse. It's happened more than once, so it's time to
do
something about it.

The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as
the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes
it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

The problem is that I don't see any space in the fob for the kinds of
switches I am used to. The ideal solution, of course, would be for the
manufacturer to put something that's found even on most throwaway $10 MP3
players - a hold button that locks out the buttons when so desired. You'd
think with what they charge for a replacement fob they'd include something
like that.

I *might* be able to work a small slide or lever switch inside the fob,
but
it's tight. In the interim, I made a clamshell type case made of hard
clear
plastic bubble packing material and one of those retracting string
keychain
things so I can slide it out to activate it and then let the rewinding
mechanism withdraw it. So far, the hard plastic sheath has reduced the
accidental openings, but it's butt ugly, ungainly and not a very good
solution. Plus, it came unglued more than once. There's a lot of
interesting stresses in pockets and pocketbooks. Ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance!

--
Bobby G.

I had been told in safety meetings these "flight recorders" were coming for
our company vans....WHoa!!! Union strike...LOL

Gives a whole new meaning to a SSD (solid state HDD). You can get about 60GB
for $135 now.
Endless loop and keeps the last 15 minutes or so. May go a long way.

Actually. I take that back about the penknife case. After reading your rant
about the hands full of crap, I empathise with that and a case would be one
more piece of crap in your hands when you are trying to get out of the
vehicle.

Solution? Don't carry it or black electrical tape over the buttons to make
them hard to push. Replace when gooey.

I like the "O" ring under the button, depending on design.


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
The worst incident was deploying the fold out ramp by accident, turning to
try to stop it from hitting the car next to me and leaning on the van's horn
button and then grabbing the keys hard enough to hit the panic button. I
felt like everyone within 1000 feet was watching me. Yet the other day,
when someone cut in front of me, I couldn't find the right area of the
steering wheel cover to press to warn them. There's something wrong with a
design that goes off when you don't want it to, but doesn't go off when you
do.

The dash cam I got from Ebay for about $80 was useful, but you really need
to have a record of what's happening on all four sides of you if you're in
an accident. A windshield cam won't capture the image of someone T-boning
you while they're running a red light but a side-view cam will. Put it
together from COTS parts for under $200. Starts up with the car, goes into
automatic record (with one channel of audio, too) and goes off with the car.

I am going to mod it so that I can also monitor the car when it's sitting
parked to see who's looking inside to see what's what. Thieves usually
"case the joint" first. The DVR is a small box that fits easily under the
rear seat. Cabling and mounting the cams to be unobtrusive was a problem
and still needs refinement. Right now it runs off the van battery, but I
want to mount a separate 12VDC marine battery to power the rig independently
of the van's power supply.

I got the idea from an episode of "COPS" where they rig up a car with all
sorts of cameras and remote functions. The leave the "bait" car in places
where people are likely to steal them. Apparently, that turns out to be
everywhere. With the Toyota debacle unfolding, having a "flight recorder"
in the car doesn't seem as far-fetched as it used to. With people texting
while they're driving, a visual record might come in very handy if a serious
accident occurs. And if I am at fault, a CF card goes missing. (-:

If I power it from a marine battery, I can also add a 2.4gHz transmitter and
watch what happens out of sight with my trusty Taser (they're having a big
sale on the pro-sumer model).

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00
Still wind up with a dead battery......
May also set off a terrorist bomb.

TDD

Please explain.

--
Bobby G.



If you are out of range and are still keeping the remote buttons
pressed, it will run down the battery in the remote. The terrorist
crack is referring to the fact that you could activate something
unintentionally. The insurgents in Iraq use all sorts of remote
technology to set off IED's. It was levity.

TDD

On 4/20/2010 9:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...

Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.


Maybe get a third party system that is designed better than the junky
stuff the car manufacturers use? Thats what I have done on the last two
vehicles we own.

On Apr 19, 12:50*pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:
The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. *It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. *That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as the
desired command button each time a command was sent. *That approach makes it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

My fob needs to be reprogrammed every time the battery is changed. I
would imagine yours is similar.

Disconnecting the battery would have the same effect. It would get
very annoying to have to reprogram the fob every time I wanted to get
into the car.

Try wearing pants that aren't so tight when you keep the keys in your
pocket.

On Apr 20, 9:56*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
Not sure I understand this, but as noted, this is a handicapped van and the
ramp deployment system requires the fob. *It's an integral part of the
problem solution and as such, needs to be prevent from opening the door and
deploying the ramp onto a car that might be parked next to me.

The obvious solution is to tie the ramp deployment system into a
different fob that doesn't have the same problem.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 9:56 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
Not sure I understand this, but as noted, this is a handicapped van and
the
ramp deployment system requires the fob. It's an integral part of the
problem solution and as such, needs to be prevent from opening the door
and
deploying the ramp onto a car that might be parked next to me.

The obvious solution is to tie the ramp deployment system into a
different fob that doesn't have the same problem.

Heck no! (-: It cost extra just to tie the whole thing together in one
package. With the number of stinking keys I have to carry already, another
fob would burst the seams of my pocket and if it didn't, it would be another
thing to press again the buttons of the van fob.

The only problem is that the buttons depress too easily on the existing
fobs. Fortunately I believe I have enough suggestions to solve the problem
without having to acquire new gear or rewire the ramp deployment system.

Thanks for your input,

--
Bobby G.

"Josepi" wrote in message
...
I had been told in safety meetings these "flight recorders" were coming
for
our company vans....WHoa!!! Union strike...LOL

It makes economic sense given the liabilities. In tough economic times,
there is in increase in people that insurers call "jumpers." They look for
a company van or an expensive car at an intersections and for drivers
fussing with cell phones and not paying attention. Then they "jump" out in
front of a vehicle hoping to get hurt just enough to make an insurance
claim.

Gives a whole new meaning to a SSD (solid state HDD). You can get about
60GB
for $135 now.
Endless loop and keeps the last 15 minutes or so. May go a long way.

You really don't need anything more than the last minute of a recording to
deal with car accidents. They happen pretty quickly. A 16GB card is
overkill, really, but it allows for faster FPS's and higher resolution, and
that's a good thing to have. The CF card format means after an accident, I
can just pop out the card easily. Don't know about you, but I've had stuff
disappear from cars that have been towed to wrecking yards.

My major concern is that testing to make sure the data is actually written
and is readable after a crash could be very expensive. (-:

Actually. I take that back about the penknife case. After reading your
rant
about the hands full of crap, I empathise with that and a case would be
one
more piece of crap in your hands when you are trying to get out of the
vehicle.

Agreed, it's not the ideal solution, but it may be a decent work-around
until I can explore some of the options that people have contributed here.

Solution? Don't carry it or black electrical tape over the buttons to make
them hard to push. Replace when gooey.

Tried that, actually. Two weeks of gooey tape riding around in a typical
pants pocket looks like a furry little mouse. It really just needs a harder
plastic "skin" around it that makes the buttons a little harder to press
than they are now. I was kinda of hoping someone would post something
telling me "that's the fobshield 101, and you can get it at so and so's."

I like the "O" ring under the button, depending on design.

That whole concept has a lot going for it. No soldering, for one. The
problem is that there are seven buttons on the remote. A spacer between the
two halves of the fob may be the best bet.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 19, 12:50 pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:
The real estate inside the fob is very cramped. It runs off a CR2032 coin
cell battery, and the circuit traces are simple enough so that I could
scrape off the 3VDC+ line and bridge it with a small switch. That way, I
could just put in a tiny pushbutton that had to be depressed as well as
the
desired command button each time a command was sent. That approach makes
it
a two-handed operation, whereas a slide type ON/OFF switch could still be
worked with one hand.

My fob needs to be reprogrammed every time the battery is changed. I
would imagine yours is similar.

I inadvertently did the experiment that Ian first suggested because when the
fob is popped open, the battery goes with one half, the circuit board with
the other. After being disconnected for several hours, it still locked the
car (I looked out the window to see the lights flash). This is a TRW remote
for a 2002 Chrysler Grand Caravan.

Disconnecting the battery would have the same effect. It would get
very annoying to have to reprogram the fob every time I wanted to get
into the car.

Yes, that would be a deal-breaker. That's why I suggested to Ian that I
would look for a way to insert a second switch into the circuit that did not
affect the trickle current going to the IC. That should be pretty easy
since it's an open circuit anyway. Adding a second switch would just mean
that both had to be pressed simultaneously.

Thanks for the caveat, but as far as I can tell, my unit doesn't have a
sophisticated fob. Perhaps that's because the keys have RF immobolizers
built into them and the security is "concentrated" at that point.

Try wearing pants that aren't so tight when you keep the keys in your
pocket.

It's not only pants, it's holding them in your hand with all the other
things your hands do upon exiting a vehicle or even throwing them in a
purse. The damn buttons are just not "stiff" enough to resist erroneous
activation. Bad design. From a carmaker. Who would have ever expected it?
(-:

--
Bobby G.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 4/20/2010 9:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with
my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...

Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.


Maybe get a third party system that is designed better than the junky
stuff the car manufacturers use? Thats what I have done on the last two
vehicles we own.

If it was new, I might, but it's 8 years old and I believe that there's a
cheaper, easier, simpler way around the problem, even if it does come down
to putting it in a hard shell case of some sort. There seems to be enough
space to put a micro-pushbutton on the fob. I am just not sure that one
button will serve all 7 fob buttons.

I may also be able to rewire the panic button, which we never use, to serve
as the second pushbutton. My preliminary scan of the circuit board wasn't
very encouraging, though. There are a lot of tiny traces around the panic
button pad.

--
Bobby G.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
Don't put the fob in your pocket or purse until you are out of range.

Cost: $0.00
Still wind up with a dead battery......
May also set off a terrorist bomb.

TDD

Please explain.

--
Bobby G.



If you are out of range and are still keeping the remote buttons
pressed, it will run down the battery in the remote. The terrorist
crack is referring to the fact that you could activate something
unintentionally. The insurgents in Iraq use all sorts of remote
technology to set off IED's. It was levity.

Ask DerbyDad03 - I am humor challenged. He has to explain all his jokes to
me, too.

Oh well.

I get your point, though. It's just not an optimum solution for me.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"George" wrote in message
...
On 4/20/2010 9:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian
And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with
my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...
Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.


Maybe get a third party system that is designed better than the junky
stuff the car manufacturers use? Thats what I have done on the last two
vehicles we own.

If it was new, I might, but it's 8 years old and I believe that there's a
cheaper, easier, simpler way around the problem, even if it does come down
to putting it in a hard shell case of some sort. There seems to be enough
space to put a micro-pushbutton on the fob. I am just not sure that one
button will serve all 7 fob buttons.

I may also be able to rewire the panic button, which we never use, to serve
as the second pushbutton. My preliminary scan of the circuit board wasn't
very encouraging, though. There are a lot of tiny traces around the panic
button pad.

--
Bobby G.


Wear the fob attached to a wrist band, like a big wrist-watch, or Space
Ghost's magic bracelet thingie?

--
aem sends...

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 4/20/2010 9:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian

And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with
my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...

Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.


Maybe get a third party system that is designed better than the junky
stuff the car manufacturers use? Thats what I have done on the last two
vehicles we own.

If it was new, I might, but it's 8 years old and I believe that there's a
cheaper, easier, simpler way around the problem, even if it does come down
to putting it in a hard shell case of some sort. There seems to be enough
space to put a micro-pushbutton on the fob. I am just not sure that one
button will serve all 7 fob buttons.

I may also be able to rewire the panic button, which we never use, to serve
as the second pushbutton. My preliminary scan of the circuit board wasn't
very encouraging, though. There are a lot of tiny traces around the panic
button pad.

--
Bobby G.



You say its too old after only 8 years?

I put a remote door/ trunk opener with starter into a 15 year old
mustang. It was the best thing I ever added to it. Unfortunately last
year (at 19 years old) it was t-boned and written off (too bad for me it
did not have side air bags - my replacement does).

My new car will re-lock the doors if the unlock button is pressed but a
door (or the lift gate) is not opened within 30 seconds.

Robert Green wrote:
"George" wrote in message
...
On 4/20/2010 9:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just leave the fob at home and use the key.

-Brian
And we have a winner! I got 1 huge ungainly combined key and fob with
my
used 05 mopar van. Stopped at locksmith on way home, and got 2
chip-but-no-button keys to use instead. Only downside is, only doors
with keyholes are driver door and hatch.

--
aem sends...
Good idea, but no can do here. Van is a kneeling van with a handicapped
ramp that unfolds via the door that has no keylock! Gotta be the fob.

--
Bobby G.


Maybe get a third party system that is designed better than the junky
stuff the car manufacturers use? Thats what I have done on the last two
vehicles we own.

If it was new, I might, but it's 8 years old and I believe that there's a
cheaper, easier, simpler way around the problem, even if it does come down
to putting it in a hard shell case of some sort. There seems to be enough
space to put a micro-pushbutton on the fob. I am just not sure that one
button will serve all 7 fob buttons.

I may also be able to rewire the panic button, which we never use, to serve
as the second pushbutton. My preliminary scan of the circuit board wasn't
very encouraging, though. There are a lot of tiny traces around the panic
button pad.

--
Bobby G.


The panic button is like life insurance. You don't use it often, but
when you do need it, you wouldn't want to be without it.

A fob sleeve holder in the vehicle may work for the sleeve.

You push the fob and condom into a hlder, pull out the fob and use it. When
complete, you push the fob into the holder, grab both and remove them for
your pockets. Trouble is you want the buttons usable outside the vehicle and
the flow logic isn't there.

I am still not convinced, on my Camry that I have actually pushed the
buttons. When hearing lock clicks, a few times, I have looked down and
fingers could not even reach the buttons in my hand??? However, if the
buttons were transmitting intermittently, one would think a dead battery
would happen in a few months / years. Mine is 9 years old (some like it
hot...)

My work van unit had a long range ( a 100 meters or so) and the panic alarm
was doing it's thing a few times, while I was in a public building, just
being in my pocket. GMC van. Got embarrassing, a few times, wondering who
the idiot is and finding out it's you...LOL ASt least the Camry is 30-40
feet to the front and about 10 feet to the rear of car. Doesn't help find
the car when you parked at the same mall a few times and can't remember what
day it is.




"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Agreed, it's not the ideal solution, but it may be a decent work-around
until I can explore some of the options that people have contributed here.




Actually. I take that back about the penknife case. After reading your
rant
about the hands full of crap, I empathise with that and a case would be
one
more piece of crap in your hands when you are trying to get out of the
vehicle.