I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

Seems VERY plausible!! HILARIOUS!!

No WONDER the meter readers will pert near pound our doors down around here,
to get in.

But no longer for me -- ahm now even more of a victim of Big Brother, as
they read my **** remotely.

But, what do you think the net gain is over a year, from this strategy??
$20?? $50?? $100??
And, to get this to work, he can't let the meter reader in during the course
of the year -- around here, if you are not read remotely, I believe they
threaten to add penalties if they can't get in periodically.

Your neighbor should apply for a job on Wall Street.

--
EA

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?


"There is no right way to do the wrong thing"
Thomas Huxley (1825-1895)


A framed quotation which I've had on my office wall for about 30 years....

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

On 4/12/2010 2:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

Sounds like a great story to impress everyone. Typically gas companies
hold the price constant for pretty long periods. Also if he averages it
out he is loosing the stepped discount you get with higher use during
the heating season.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.


In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

On Apr 12, 1:40*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

We had our gas meter estimated, Not Read for -- 4 -- years, so it does
happen all the time that a meter man will bypass a place he cant get
into, if you are paying a resonable bill you wont be bothered. In
Chicago the electric co and gas co do this all the time. Right now I
am trying to get electric meters read that havnt been read for 8
months.

On Apr 12, 5:06*pm, ransley wrote:
On Apr 12, 1:40*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

We had our gas meter estimated, Not Read for -- 4 -- years, so it does
happen all the time that a meter man will bypass a place he cant get
into, if you are paying a resonable bill you wont be bothered. In
Chicago the electric co and gas co do this all the time. Right now I
am trying to get electric meters read that havnt been read for 8
months.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you in the Windy City or suburbs?

mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.


"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.


Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first)
wife angry with me....

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

jeff_wisnia wrote:
mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.


"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.


Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first)
wife angry with me....

Jeff


Not disagreeing with you philosophically about honesty and duty one's
duty to society as a whole. But, gas is different than taxes. Gas is a
measurable, quantifiable item. Taxes, on the other hand- I can't
remember what the proper term is, but no matter how much everyone pays,
they will still spend more than they get. Do you really think that if
they suddenly magically got 100% compliance with the tax code, that the
rate would actually go down? They would just find something else to
spend it on, said something probably being whatever they thought would
get them reelected.

Taxes are not set by dividing up the justifiable expenses by the number
of people. They are set by what the traffic will bear. They strive for
just a fraction lower than what would make compliance plummet even more
(like to European numbers), or worse yet, what would get the population
marching on the various capitols with torches and pitchforks. IOW, the
sweet spot where 'sort of' complying is easier than revolution.

(Note that I can't cheat- since I work for them, they already know
exactly what I make.)
--
aem sends...

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.


"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... he's stealing from
thieves!!



Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.


My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA



Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

"ktos" wrote in message
...
Jeff The Drunk wrote in :

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

I didn't know a meter could be read only once a year. Around here
they alternate between estimate and read each month. And here we get
to lock in a 12 month price and choose the lowest between several
different suppliers. My largest monthly bill is Feb, this year was
around $150.00.

also, this method may not work because the company will wonder why the
winter readings are so low and high in the summer. They'll probably want
to come and check your meter.

This happened to me when I was submitting my own reads. They are always
way lower than what the company thought it should be.

Come to find out , the dummies had us as having 6 people in the house,
when
there are only 2 of us.

They track occupancy?? goodgawd, what city/state is this??
--
EA

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Apr 12, 1:40*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

We had our gas meter estimated, Not Read for -- 4 -- years, so it does
happen all the time that a meter man will bypass a place he cant get
into, if you are paying a resonable bill you wont be bothered. In
Chicago the electric co and gas co do this all the time. Right now I
am trying to get electric meters read that havnt been read for 8
months.

Why aren't the littlem women staying home, to let in the meterman,
like they're supposed to?

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:09:07 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.


"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... he's stealing from
thieves!!

I don't think so. But even if so, he's still stealing and admitting
it in public. Do you think he limits himeslf to stealing from those
you think are thieves?

And not only that, when people confess their crimes to others, I think
they do it to receive what they take as implicit approval.

That if no one objects, they say to themselves, "No one objected.
They either think what I'm doing is all right, or they are as
dishonest as I am. That is, I'm as good as everyone else there is."

I've rarely had anyone confess a crime to me, and the one person I
think has I was a little confused and not sure what he was saying,
plus I owe him so many favors, and his business is doing badly now,
and he has borrowed money to make his business grow, money I hope he
can repay, so I couldn't bring myself to say anything critical so I
said nothing. Not because I want more favors, but I don't want to
ruin our friendship.

OTOH, with a jerk at a party, even then in truth, I would likely be
less in your face, like this:

"Aren't you telling me you are stealing from the gas company? I hope
you don't mind when people steal from you." Asking him instead of
tellng him. Hoping instead of assuming, which I think also sounds
less agreessive on my part.


On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:38:43 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:09:07 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.


"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... he's stealing from
thieves!!

I don't think so. But even if so, he's still stealing and admitting
it in public. Do you think he limits himeslf to stealing from those
you think are thieves?

On Apr 12, 5:29*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Apr 12, 5:06*pm, ransley wrote:





On Apr 12, 1:40*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

We had our gas meter estimated, Not Read for -- 4 -- years, so it does
happen all the time that a meter man will bypass a place he cant get
into, if you are paying a resonable bill you wont be bothered. In
Chicago the electric co and gas co do this all the time. Right now I
am trying to get electric meters read that havnt been read for 8
months.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you in the Windy City or suburbs?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Both, + Oak Park.

On Apr 12, 8:09*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message

...





mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. *I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. *Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... * * he's stealing from
thieves!!



Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.



My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? *She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA





Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not say its stealing, he pays in advance in summer so he is
loaning the utility in summer, call it Price Averaging - Long Term
Lock In - Buying In Advance.

On Apr 12, 10:27*pm, ktos wrote:
Jeff The Drunk wrote :





On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

I didn't know a meter could be read only once a year. *Around here
they alternate between estimate and read each month. *And here we get
to lock in a 12 month price and choose the lowest between several
different suppliers. *My largest monthly bill is Feb, this year was
around $150.00.

If the company doesn't have access to the meter for the alternate reads,
they must come at least once per year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They dont " Must Do " anything.

"ktos" wrote in message
...
"Existential Angst" wrote in
:

"ktos" wrote in message
...
Jeff The Drunk wrote in :

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a
commercial HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas
company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper
in the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his
meter by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at
the cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying
within "average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his
meter once a year and it's always near the end of winter when his
over-reads and under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

I didn't know a meter could be read only once a year. Around here
they alternate between estimate and read each month. And here we
get to lock in a 12 month price and choose the lowest between
several different suppliers. My largest monthly bill is Feb, this
year was around $150.00.

also, this method may not work because the company will wonder why
the winter readings are so low and high in the summer. They'll
probably want to come and check your meter.

This happened to me when I was submitting my own reads. They are
always way lower than what the company thought it should be.

Come to find out , the dummies had us as having 6 people in the
house, when
there are only 2 of us.

They track occupancy?? goodgawd, what city/state is this??

The company likes to spy on people. It's NY state. There is also a law
if
they don't get the yearly reading they charge you $25 per month until you
let them read the meter.

I'm in NYS (ConEd). I didn't know they did this.
Not that it matters, but no dealings that I've had with the company -- and
there have been MANY, right at their headquarters at Union Square
(manhattan) -- indicated their interest of any information of that sort.

I know they are concerned about kids/elderly in the case of turn off's, but
that was it, afaik.
--
EA

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:16:39 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

Seems VERY plausible!! HILARIOUS!!

No WONDER the meter readers will pert near pound our doors down around here,
to get in.

But no longer for me -- ahm now even more of a victim of Big Brother, as
they read my **** remotely.

But, what do you think the net gain is over a year, from this strategy??
$20?? $50?? $100??
And, to get this to work, he can't let the meter reader in during the course
of the year -- around here, if you are not read remotely, I believe they
threaten to add penalties if they can't get in periodically.

Your neighbor should apply for a job on Wall Street.


There's almost never anyone at my home (NYC) when the reader comes,
so we read it and submit it via internet - or if we forget we get an
estimated bill. Once or twice a year someone is home when they come by
so I don't know what happens if you go a year. No one counts how many
people live in the house though.

I guess it's possible to jiggle the numbers for both gas and electric
so you save a bit, but it really seems too minor to bother with.

On Apr 13, 7:21*am, ransley wrote:
On Apr 12, 8:09*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:





"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message

...

mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. *I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. *Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... * * he's stealing from
thieves!!

Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? *She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not say its stealing, he pays in advance in summer so he is
loaning the utility in summer, *call it Price Averaging - Long Term
Lock In - Buying In Advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Of course it's stealing. It's the same as going to a store and buying
bolts that are sold loose. You go to the checkout and when they are
regular price, you tell the clerk you have 50, when you really have
70. Then when they are on sale you reverse the process. The net
result is you're not paying the correct price for the product
received. In the case of the gas, if he were caught, they had the
proof and decided to prosecute the charge would be "theft by
deception".

Guess who makes up the difference? The rest of us. But one can only
wonder about a couple of things:

What kind of idiot does this and then goes to a party and talks about
it? Who knows who happens to be there or who they will tell?

How much can the price of gas vary from summer to winter, how much of
a discrepancy and shifting can you get away with so that they don't
become suspicous, etc and still have it make enough savings difference
to amount to anything significant. If he's dishonest enough to pull
that cheat and tell everyone about it, I'd bet he's up to a lot of
other crap too.

On 4/13/2010 7:22 AM, ransley wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:27 pm, wrote:
Jeff The Drunk wrote :





On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

I didn't know a meter could be read only once a year. Around here
they alternate between estimate and read each month. And here we get
to lock in a 12 month price and choose the lowest between several
different suppliers. My largest monthly bill is Feb, this year was
around $150.00.

If the company doesn't have access to the meter for the alternate reads,
they must come at least once per year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They dont " Must Do " anything.

It is a regulatory requirement in my state. They must read the meter at
least once/year. It doesn't really matter anymore because the two gas
suppliers that serve our region put remote reading registers on all
meters that are not directly accessible maybe three or four years ago.
Then the one company that serves my house put remote reading registers
on all of the meters late summer of last year.

Along the same lines the water company put outside accessible readers on
all of their meters maybe 5 years ago and the electric company swapped
out all of their meters last year with meters they can read over the
powerline. It also is a great help for them because they no longer have
to depend on folks calling in when someone hits a pole. When they loose
contact with meters they know the scope of the problem and right where
to go.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

In all ACTUALITY, the gas price does not vary seasonally. It varies
with the contracts they buy it on. It can go up or down at any time.

On 4/13/2010 9:50 AM, wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:21 am, wrote:
On Apr 12, 8:09 pm, "Existential
wrote:





et wrote in message

...

mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... he's stealing from
thieves!!

Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not say its stealing, he pays in advance in summer so he is
loaning the utility in summer, call it Price Averaging - Long Term
Lock In - Buying In Advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Of course it's stealing. It's the same as going to a store and buying
bolts that are sold loose. You go to the checkout and when they are
regular price, you tell the clerk you have 50, when you really have
70. Then when they are on sale you reverse the process. The net
result is you're not paying the correct price for the product
received. In the case of the gas, if he were caught, they had the
proof and decided to prosecute the charge would be "theft by
deception".

Guess who makes up the difference? The rest of us. But one can only
wonder about a couple of things:

What kind of idiot does this and then goes to a party and talks about
it? Who knows who happens to be there or who they will tell?


Likely someone without a life who likes to tell stories thinking they
are impressing everyone and not realizing they look stupid.

I had a acquaintance who was just like that. He would weave stories to
impress everyone about clever he was. One day it was about a notebook
computer. The story was that somehow he bought it and trashed it and
claimed he was gyped and they gave him his money back and then gave him
a new one for 20% of the cost because he threatened to sue them and was
talking really loud so they did it to hush him up. Only thing was the
receipt for a full price notebook fell out of the bag when he went to
display his trophy.


How much can the price of gas vary from summer to winter, how much of
a discrepancy and shifting can you get away with so that they don't
become suspicous, etc and still have it make enough savings difference
to amount to anything significant. If he's dishonest enough to pull
that cheat and tell everyone about it, I'd bet he's up to a lot of
other crap too.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.
. . .
Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

This approximates the "averaging" monthly payment
programmes some utility companies offer clients.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Apr 13, 4:27�am, ktos wrote:
Jeff The Drunk wrote :





On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?

I didn't know a meter could be read only once a year. �Around here
they alternate between estimate and read each month. �And here we get
to lock in a 12 month price and choose the lowest between several
different suppliers. �My largest monthly bill is Feb, this year was
around $150.00.

If the company doesn't have access to the meter for the alternate reads,
they must come at least once per year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I live in the UK. I haven't seen a meter reader in years and years!
The default position is they just guess. When the bill is wrong in
their favour, you can ring them up and give them the reading. You
don't speak to anyone, you dial in your account number when asked and
then it confirms your name & then you dial in your meter reading.
Some of them have voice recognition and you can just talk to the
computer. The latest wheeze is that they like you to set up your own
internet account & you fill in the meter readings when it suits you.
You get an Email tells you when they want money. You can set up a
standing payment or ring up and speak to their computer with your
credit card. You only see a meter reader if you move house.

"Steve Barker" wrote

In all ACTUALITY, the gas price does not vary seasonally. It varies with
the contracts they buy it on. It can go up or down at any time.

That depends on where you live and who the supplier is. Gas can and does
vary greatly in some places. Price can be fixed or varied and some even
offer options of either to choose from. When you get into large industrial
users, you may even pay for gas you did not use and the really huge users
can have prices vary a couple times during the day and metering is by the
hour.

On Apr 13, 8:50*am, wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:21*am, ransley wrote:





On Apr 12, 8:09*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message

...

mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company.

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief.. *I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. *Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... * * he's stealing from
thieves!!

Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? *She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not say its stealing, he pays in advance in summer so he is
loaning the utility in summer, *call it Price Averaging - Long Term
Lock In - Buying In Advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Of course it's stealing. *It's the same as going to a store and buying
bolts that are sold loose. * You go to the checkout and when they are
regular price, you tell the clerk you have 50, when you really have
70. * Then when they are on sale you reverse the process. *The net
result is you're not paying the correct price for the product
received. * In the case of the gas, if he were caught, they had the
proof and decided to prosecute the charge would be "theft by
deception".

Guess who makes up the difference? * The rest of us. *But one can only
wonder about a couple of things:

What kind of idiot does this and then goes to a party and talks about
it? * Who knows who happens to be there or who they will tell?

How much can the price of gas vary from summer to winter, how much of
a discrepancy and shifting can you get away with so that they don't
become suspicous, etc and still have it make enough savings difference
to amount to anything significant. * If he's dishonest enough to pull
that cheat and tell everyone about it, I'd bet he's up to a lot of
other crap too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if the utility co offeres him the option it its ok ! So he pays
more in summer, you have heard of company locked in contracts that all
utilities I know of offer or average year pricing to spread out the
burden, he is paying in a higher dollar in summer, loosing interest,
giving free interest use to the utility in hope of a higher winter
price. If prices dont rise he looses just as last winter my prices
didnt rise. I look at it not as theft but forward purchase to ease a
burden or spread out payments. The futures markets are designed and
operate on this premise, he basicly locks in a price himself and pre
pays as a gamble. Ive seen people loose on lock in utility Co future
deals as prices dropped think of heating oil contracts. Look the
different ways he looses and can loose, its not so immoral when viewed
as future or contract pricing with risk and loss of interest and use
of the cash. The first thing the utility companies offer fincially
burdened is average pricing, it helps with those gas bills at -10f.

On Apr 14, 7:47*am, ransley wrote:
On Apr 13, 8:50*am, wrote:





On Apr 13, 7:21*am, ransley wrote:

On Apr 12, 8:09*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message

...

mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I was at a party last night and a neighbor who works for a commercial
HVAC company explained his method of ripping off the gas company..

He says that gas is a commodity and therefore is typically cheaper in
the summer than in the winter. In the summer he "over-reads" his meter
by 35 - 40 therms on average, paying for the extra therms at the
cheaper price.

"It's so rare I meet someone who admits right out to being a thief. *I
assume you don't object when public officials steal or others steal
from you or your family."

I'm pretty slow on the uptake, and I might not have thought to say
this, but I think I'll remember next time. *Especially worth saying if
others are there when he said what he did.

I hear your visceral reaction to theft, but..... * * he's stealing from
thieves!!

Yes, I'm prone to speak up when someone starts crowing about how they
cheat on their income taxes. I usually say something like, "You realize
you've just admitted that you're making me and the rest of the honest
citizens pay more than we'd have to if you didn't do that."

Yeah, but he's shortchanging profligate thieves.....
Plus what aem said.

My saying that to someone out loud at a party used to get my (first) wife
angry with me....

See? *She proly agrees with me!

Once the public trust is betrayed, you're expecting a little too much
turning-the-cheek (mebbe 1080 degrees, or more) to ask a betrayed public not
to even the score when they can.

It's just too bad that the even-ing of the score can't be better
coordinated, for true effectiveness.
Sheeple don't coordinate too well, tho.
--
EA

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In the winter, he "under-reads" his meter by the same amount, paying
for fewer of the expensive therms.

Since he is sending in his card every month, and he is staying within
"average use" for a homeowner, they only come to read his meter once a
year and it's always near the end of winter when his over-reads and
under-reads have just about cancelled out.

As they ask on Mythbusters - Busted, Confirmed or Plausible?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would not say its stealing, he pays in advance in summer so he is
loaning the utility in summer, *call it Price Averaging - Long Term
Lock In - Buying In Advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Of course it's stealing. *It's the same as going to a store and buying
bolts that are sold loose. * You go to the checkout and when they are
regular price, you tell the clerk you have 50, when you really have
70. * Then when they are on sale you reverse the process. *The net
result is you're not paying the correct price for the product
received. * In the case of the gas, if he were caught, they had the
proof and decided to prosecute the charge would be "theft by
deception".

Guess who makes up the difference? * The rest of us. *But one can only
wonder about a couple of things:

What kind of idiot does this and then goes to a party and talks about
it? * Who knows who happens to be there or who they will tell?

How much can the price of gas vary from summer to winter, how much of
a discrepancy and shifting can you get away with so that they don't
become suspicous, etc and still have it make enough savings difference
to amount to anything significant. * If he's dishonest enough to pull
that cheat and tell everyone about it, I'd bet he's up to a lot of
other crap too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if the utility co offeres him the option it its ok ! So he pays
more in summer, you have heard of company locked in contracts that all
utilities I know of offer or average year pricing to spread out the
burden, he is paying in a higher dollar in summer, loosing interest,
giving free interest use to the utility in hope of a *higher winter
price. If prices dont rise he looses just as last winter my prices
didnt rise. I look at it not as theft but forward purchase to ease a
burden or spread out payments. The futures markets are designed and
operate on this premise, he basicly locks in a price himself *and pre
pays as a gamble.

Yeah, it's like ONE HALF of that kind of deal. The only problem is,
that is NOT what his contract with the gas company says and they don't
know he's doing it. Consequently, the gas company is not adding his
demand to the amount of gas that they hedge on the futures market or
with suppliers.




Ive seen people loose on lock in utility Co future
deals as prices dropped think of heating oil contracts. Look the
different ways he looses and can loose, its not so immoral when viewed
as future or contract pricing with risk and loss of interest and use
of the cash.

A bank robber can lose too, by getting caught. Or somebody that
steals copper out of a vacant house might realize later that it took a
lot more work removing it than the amount they received at the scrap
yard was worth. Those are theft too. Of how about I bought your
house 2 years ago and now it's worth $30K less. So, I decide it's OK
for me to come steal some stuff from you to make up for it, because
there was a way for me to lose and I did?


The first thing the utility companies offer fincially
burdened is average pricing, it helps with those gas bills at -10f.-


Which of course has nothing to do with this, because first there is no
indication the guy is financially strapped and second, even if he is,
any special programs for the needy are supposed to be reserved for
those truly in need. My gas company offers that averaging program
for everyone. All they are doing is averaging out the total cost of
gas for the year based on prior usage into equal installments, not
changing the price of gas they deliver. If you use more gas in winter
than they planned for, then you still pay the full price for that gas,
they just increase the payments at some point to make up for it over
time. This guy is skewing the demand when the gas price is low so
that he pays a lower price than the other legitimate customers. .
What he is doing is making the honest customers pay more for their
gas.