I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Insulation first...

You can either install a window kit and have the luxury of a window as
well or simply frame a unit into the wall if that isn't desirable but
unless do something about the heat transfer unless it's an awfully
benign climate it'll take a terribly oversized unit for the space to do
much good.

--

On Apr 12, 1:34*pm, stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Well, you could add a window(s) first, and then add the window
unit(s).

This pdf describes "the window you install after the metal siding is
ijn place"

http://www.plyco.com/pdf/windows%20p...ows%20aatl.pdf

Of course, unless the building is sealed/insulated/"tight", it going
to be tough to *efficiently* keep the space cool.

Have you considered a big fan and an huge block of ice? ;-)

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Yeah, you might have boucou vibration.

Consider mini-splits.
You can install 2-4 12,000 btu units, sequence them as needed.
Even tho one unit might not cool the whole space, the area *near* the unit
will be markedly cooler than areas farther away -- if you are going to be
working in just one area for some while.
Moveable partitions would help, as well. Or full partitions.

Much quieter than window units, more efficient, etc. They vary greatly in
price, as well, and most seem to have heat pumps.

Also consider ceiling fans, and vents in the roof -- these can greatly
reduce the heating load.
Ceiling fans help in both summer AND winter, perhaps even more in winter.
Ideally, summer/winter fans would not only change rotation, but would be
height-adjustable, as well.

And yeah, insulate!!

You can also paint windows inside yer structure, with a sun, clouds, sky,
etc.... Can really help!
--
EA

On Apr 12, 6:34�pm, stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.

On Apr 12, 1:07*pm, harry wrote:
On Apr 12, 6:34 pm, stryped wrote:

I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.

I am in the process of insulating it. The wals are 2x4 and they have
r-13 with paper face. I am putting foam board in the garage doors.

R-30 is going in the ceiling with a 6 milieter clear plastic vapor
barrier. I just started doing that.

Arent those mini systems expensive? Money is kind of tight.

I have been looking on craigslist for used heat pumps/air conditioners
that sit outside but have not had much luck.

On Apr 12, 2:31*pm, stryped wrote:
On Apr 12, 1:07*pm, harry wrote:

On Apr 12, 6:34 pm, stryped wrote:

I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.

I am in the process of insulating it. The wals are 2x4 and they have
r-13 with paper face. I am putting foam board in the garage doors.

R-30 is going in the ceiling with a 6 milieter clear plastic vapor
barrier. I just started doing that.

Arent those mini systems expensive? Money is kind of tight.

I have been looking on craigslist for used heat pumps/air conditioners
that sit outside but have not had much luck.

Yea, those minisplits are not cheap. How about a package unit. Put
the inlet right at the wall and run the outlet up to the top with a
piece of spiral running the length of the building. Throw a few vents
on the sides. With a package unit you don't need to pay an hvac guy
to hook it up. All it takes is duct, ac, and a thermostat.

AC units for mobile homes often work wtih tubes they call
"bags". That pump the warm air out, and cooled air in. That
kind of thing is also used for buildings.

Is there an existing heat system with ducts? Is the are all
open, or is it walled off to make offices, etc? If it's all
open, that's easier. Others have mentioned insulation, which
is essential.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jamesgangnc"
wrote in message
...

Yea, those minisplits are not cheap. How about a package
unit. Put
the inlet right at the wall and run the outlet up to the top
with a
piece of spiral running the length of the building. Throw a
few vents
on the sides. With a package unit you don't need to pay an
hvac guy
to hook it up. All it takes is duct, ac, and a thermostat.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

A big fan at the door or at another opening farthest from the open
door will get your through then next month. More or less depending on
where you live.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Depends on the construction. You can easily cut a hole, but supporting a big
enough AC will take some extra reinforcement. Add a couple of braces that
take the weight on the ground. In reality, all you have to do is cut an
opening the size of the ac, make a tray for it to rest on with legs secured
in the ground, both inside and outside if needed, put the AC into place.

Next is air circulation. You may want to have a fan blowing the air around
inside as 30' is a long way to go. As for size, that depends on how much
insulation and ceiling height, etc. You may need two if you go for window
shakers. They will be 220V on the larger size too.

You can always go for a split system.

On Apr 12, 2:31*pm, stryped wrote:
On Apr 12, 1:07*pm, harry wrote:

On Apr 12, 6:34 pm, stryped wrote:

I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.

I am in the process of insulating it. The wals are 2x4 and they have
r-13 with paper face. I am putting foam board in the garage doors.

R-30 is going in the ceiling with a 6 milieter clear plastic vapor
barrier. I just started doing that.

Arent those mini systems expensive? Money is kind of tight.

I have been looking on craigslist for used heat pumps/air conditioners
that sit outside but have not had much luck.

Stryped:

The biggest question here is what sort of power you have
available in this building ??? Is it fed from another source
as an outbuilding or does it have its own power panel with
enough capacity to add a heavy load from an AC unit to it...

Do you have any means of heating this space right now ???
Would you want a system that is cooling only or one that
can do both heating and cooling ???

A split system is nice but expensive and would require more
than one interior unit to evenly cool such a large space...
Split systems are also packaged and you really can't modify
the interior unit to do much of anything with it... It will only
blow the air a certain way a certain distance from the wall
blower unit, after that you have to deal with whatever aspects
of your room like air leakage or poor air circulation in one end
of the building that will create areas where the temperature
doesn't equalize...

You could consider a PTAC (Packaged Terminal Air Conditioner)
unit like you would find in hotels/motels with a duct work kit...
You would not need a window to install such a unit and they do
come in 240v configurations... The units cool, heat (reverse cool
cycle) and can come with electric booster heater coils for when
the outside temperature hinders the reverse cool cycle and only
require a maximum of 30amps power feeder...

I guess the bigger question here is what you use this building
for and how cool you need to keep it ??? That would be the
information you would need to know in order to properly size
any sort of unit to the cooling load you will have...

A PTAC unit will only require electrical expertise to install,
a split AC unit will require familiarity with AC tubing and
having to take care with the tubes and insulating them when
you install AND require electrical expertise with rain tight
flexible metal conduits and weatherproof service disconnect
installs...

Once you know what size unit you need you can then
start looking for surplus units for sale on-line... If you go
into this by looking for what is cheaply available on-line,
you won't be choosing the right size unit for what you need
and would be like the tail wagging the dog...

~~ Evan

I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.



*These are nice package units and are available with heat or without. You
would need to cut a hole for the ventilation grill to penetrate to the
outside.

http://friedrich.com/products/vert-I-pak/overview/

Evan wrote:
On Apr 12, 2:31 pm, stryped wrote:
On Apr 12, 1:07 pm, harry wrote:

On Apr 12, 6:34 pm, stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.
If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.
I am in the process of insulating it. The wals are 2x4 and they have
r-13 with paper face. I am putting foam board in the garage doors.

R-30 is going in the ceiling with a 6 milieter clear plastic vapor
barrier. I just started doing that.

Arent those mini systems expensive? Money is kind of tight.

I have been looking on craigslist for used heat pumps/air conditioners
that sit outside but have not had much luck.

Stryped:

The biggest question here is what sort of power you have
available in this building ??? Is it fed from another source
as an outbuilding or does it have its own power panel with
enough capacity to add a heavy load from an AC unit to it...

Do you have any means of heating this space right now ???
Would you want a system that is cooling only or one that
can do both heating and cooling ???

A split system is nice but expensive and would require more
than one interior unit to evenly cool such a large space...
Split systems are also packaged and you really can't modify
the interior unit to do much of anything with it... It will only
blow the air a certain way a certain distance from the wall
blower unit, after that you have to deal with whatever aspects
of your room like air leakage or poor air circulation in one end
of the building that will create areas where the temperature
doesn't equalize...

You could consider a PTAC (Packaged Terminal Air Conditioner)
unit like you would find in hotels/motels with a duct work kit...
You would not need a window to install such a unit and they do
come in 240v configurations... The units cool, heat (reverse cool
cycle) and can come with electric booster heater coils for when
the outside temperature hinders the reverse cool cycle and only
require a maximum of 30amps power feeder...

I guess the bigger question here is what you use this building
for and how cool you need to keep it ??? That would be the
information you would need to know in order to properly size
any sort of unit to the cooling load you will have...

A PTAC unit will only require electrical expertise to install,
a split AC unit will require familiarity with AC tubing and
having to take care with the tubes and insulating them when
you install AND require electrical expertise with rain tight
flexible metal conduits and weatherproof service disconnect
installs...

Once you know what size unit you need you can then
start looking for surplus units for sale on-line... If you go
into this by looking for what is cheaply available on-line,
you won't be choosing the right size unit for what you need
and would be like the tail wagging the dog...

~~ Evan
Nobody else said it, so I will- what is the roof construction? Metal or
shingles over wood? If metal, those get real hot, even if painted white.
And even with a shingle roof, if you have walled off the 'attic' area,
you have created a massive heat box up there, unless you have also
installed adequate ventilation. Even with an insulated ceiling, no a/c
unit will be able to keep up. If soffit vents are a no-go due to lack of
overhang, you need a big gable vent in each end, probably with a powered
fan in one end. There is a reason you saw old-style barn hayloft doors
left open in summer, other than in heavy rain. Gets damn hot below all
that sheet tin.

--
aem sends...

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

The heat will collect in the high part of the roof. Unless you partition it
into rooms, and put a ceiling in there, you're pretty much cooling a lot of
hot air that won't feel any cooler. The sun load on the exterior of the
building will heat any cool air in the place immediately.

Sorry.

Steve

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Evan wrote:
On Apr 12, 2:31 pm, stryped wrote:
On Apr 12, 1:07 pm, harry wrote:

On Apr 12, 6:34 pm, stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.
If the building has no insulation you would be wasting your time. Just
leave the door open.
I am in the process of insulating it. The wals are 2x4 and they have
r-13 with paper face. I am putting foam board in the garage doors.

R-30 is going in the ceiling with a 6 milieter clear plastic vapor
barrier. I just started doing that.

Arent those mini systems expensive? Money is kind of tight.

I have been looking on craigslist for used heat pumps/air conditioners
that sit outside but have not had much luck.

Stryped:

The biggest question here is what sort of power you have
available in this building ??? Is it fed from another source
as an outbuilding or does it have its own power panel with
enough capacity to add a heavy load from an AC unit to it...

Do you have any means of heating this space right now ???
Would you want a system that is cooling only or one that
can do both heating and cooling ???

A split system is nice but expensive and would require more
than one interior unit to evenly cool such a large space...
Split systems are also packaged and you really can't modify
the interior unit to do much of anything with it... It will only
blow the air a certain way a certain distance from the wall
blower unit, after that you have to deal with whatever aspects
of your room like air leakage or poor air circulation in one end
of the building that will create areas where the temperature
doesn't equalize...

You could consider a PTAC (Packaged Terminal Air Conditioner)
unit like you would find in hotels/motels with a duct work kit...
You would not need a window to install such a unit and they do
come in 240v configurations... The units cool, heat (reverse cool
cycle) and can come with electric booster heater coils for when
the outside temperature hinders the reverse cool cycle and only
require a maximum of 30amps power feeder...

I guess the bigger question here is what you use this building
for and how cool you need to keep it ??? That would be the
information you would need to know in order to properly size
any sort of unit to the cooling load you will have...

A PTAC unit will only require electrical expertise to install,
a split AC unit will require familiarity with AC tubing and
having to take care with the tubes and insulating them when
you install AND require electrical expertise with rain tight
flexible metal conduits and weatherproof service disconnect
installs...

Once you know what size unit you need you can then
start looking for surplus units for sale on-line... If you go
into this by looking for what is cheaply available on-line,
you won't be choosing the right size unit for what you need
and would be like the tail wagging the dog...

~~ Evan
Nobody else said it, so I will- what is the roof construction? Metal or
shingles over wood? If metal, those get real hot, even if painted white.
And even with a shingle roof, if you have walled off the 'attic' area, you
have created a massive heat box up there, unless you have also installed
adequate ventilation. Even with an insulated ceiling, no a/c unit will be
able to keep up. If soffit vents are a no-go due to lack of overhang, you
need a big gable vent in each end, probably with a powered fan in one end.
There is a reason you saw old-style barn hayloft doors left open in
summer, other than in heavy rain. Gets damn hot below all that sheet tin.

Well, I did say vent the ceiling....
A few times.....

But to second your advice, a fan is also a good idea, which can blow through
louvres, and be on its own thermostat.
One at each end, or even 4 smaller ones in each corner, would evacuate the
heat more uniformly.
--
EA


--
aem sends...

stryped wrote:
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

I've installed Bard package units and I like them because they're
high quality and have a lot of options. I installed one in a pizza
place that needed extra cooling in the kitchen during warmer months.
It's a metal building and the installation went quite well. I ordered
grills for it since we in stalled it through the wall without any
duct work. The discharge is a few inches from the ceiling and the
return is a few feet lower. It's a four ton 3 phase unit with several
factory options including a phase protection module to protect the
unit from any power problems, high and low pressure cutouts, low ambient
temperature control and the 2" thick pleated filter option. It's given
zero trouble in four years. the only maintenance has been changing
filters and cleaning the condenser once a year. Pizza places are very
rough on air conditioners.

http://www.bardhvac.com/app_cntr_apps_ac_5ton.shtml

TDD

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:19:54 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows

Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on them. Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but you might
not need even that.

and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Depends on the construction. You can easily cut a hole, but supporting a big
enough AC will take some extra reinforcement. Add a couple of braces that
take the weight on the ground. In reality, all you have to do is cut an
opening the size of the ac, make a tray for it to rest on with legs secured
in the ground, both inside and outside if needed, put the AC into place.

This reminds me of how I installed an AC in a 5th floor window. I
was afraid it would fall out when in installed it or when I opened the
window, so I made shelf, well nailed (nails at opposite angles) to the
window sill, and supported on the cement ledge. Worked fine for the
small AC. If only I'd made it 20 inches deep instead of ten......

Next is air circulation. You may want to have a fan blowing the air around
inside as 30' is a long way to go. As for size, that depends on how much
insulation and ceiling height, etc. You may need two if you go for window
shakers. They will be 220V on the larger size too.

You can always go for a split system.

On Apr 12, 11:03*pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:19:54 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

wrote:

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the
best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window
unit but I have no windows

Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on them. *Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but you might
not need even that.

and not sure if cutting the corregated
metal would work right.

Depends on the construction. You can easily cut a hole, but supporting a big
enough AC will take some extra reinforcement. *Add a couple of braces that
take the weight on the ground. * In reality, all you have to do is cut an
opening the size of the ac, make a tray for it to rest on with legs secured
in the ground, both inside and outside if needed, put the AC into place.

This reminds me of how I installed an AC in a 5th floor window. * I
was afraid it would fall out when in installed it or when I opened the
window, so I made shelf, well nailed (nails at opposite angles) to the
window sill, and supported on the cement ledge. *Worked fine for the
small AC. If only I'd made it 20 inches deep instead of ten......





Next is air circulation. *You may want to have a fan blowing the air around
inside as 30' is a long way to go. *As for size, that depends on how much
insulation and ceiling height, etc. *You may need two if you go for window
shakers. *They will be 220V on the larger size too.

You can always go for a split system.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is a metal building aand roof. It will have a 10 foot ceiling.
Above that is the attic area.

Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...


Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? I'm sure
the motel AC worked. It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

just buy a goodman furnace or just air handler if you dont need heat
with AC.


Window ACs cost a fortune to operate, when I replaced my window units
with whole house air my electric bill in summer dropped by over a
third, and its m,uch more comfy too. Plus we can see out the windows

mm wrote:
Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? I'm sure
the motel AC worked. It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.




window AC and thru-wall AC AIN'T the same thing. Some units go both
ways, but most don't The 'motel' style units are usually a lot bigger,
and often include a heater. Before central AC units got cheap, lotsa
cheap apartment complexes did bulk deals on thru-wall units, and only
installed the sleeves as units were built. They keep a dozen extra out
back somewhere for ones that crap out or get killed by tenants. Major
PITA when that brand or size goes out of production, and they have to
scramble for a 'universal' one to fit that model-specific sleeve.

--
aem sends...

Somewhere in another galaxy far far away, Stormin Mormon wrote something
about a package unit.

What is a package unit?

A package unit is a box that sits outside a building. One
duct draws in warm indoor air, and another duct delivers
cooled AC air to the building.
http://www.aquair.com.au/images/138-3877_IMG.JPG
This image is the closest I could find. There's one on a
church a couple miles from me, I could go take a picture and
upload the picture some where. If you wish.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tony" wrote in message
...
Somewhere in another galaxy far far away, Stormin Mormon
wrote something
about a package unit.

What is a package unit?

And, package units often sit on the ground, outdoors.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...



What is a package unit?

It is like a big window shaker. The compressor and
evaporator are in
one can but you usually have to attach duct work to a
package unit.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
A package unit is a box that sits outside a building. One
duct draws in warm indoor air, and another duct delivers
cooled AC air to the building.
http://www.aquair.com.au/images/138-3877_IMG.JPG
This image is the closest I could find. There's one on a
church a couple miles from me, I could go take a picture and
upload the picture some where. If you wish.


Holy ****!!!!!! You posted above your sig file! You can see that with
this reply it quoted your text. It's nice that everyone will know what
I replied to!

OK, back to the package unit, I understand what it is now. No more pics
needed.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
A package unit is a box that sits outside a building. One duct draws in
warm indoor air, and another duct delivers cooled AC air to the building.
http://www.aquair.com.au/images/138-3877_IMG.JPG
This image is the closest I could find. There's one on a church a couple
miles from me, I could go take a picture and upload the picture some
where. If you wish.


Holy ****!!!!!! You posted above your sig file! You can see that with
this reply it quoted your text. It's nice that everyone will know what I
replied to!snip

He doesn't get it or he doesn't care. I suspect the latter. He's been asked
a million times.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:26:11 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

mm wrote:
Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? I'm sure
the motel AC worked. It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.




window AC and thru-wall AC AIN'T the same thing. Some units go both
ways, but most don't

Then he should get one that is thru-wall or goes both ways.

The 'motel' style units are usually a lot bigger,

Usually. I'm not counting the ones that are 3 feet wide or so, start
at the floor and og up almost two feet, and the entire thing stick 8
inches into the room.

and often include a heater.

I don't think you're saying otherwise, but the heater is irrelevant to
whether the sleeve is a problem when using the AC.

Before central AC units got cheap, lotsa
cheap apartment complexes did bulk deals on thru-wall units, and only
installed the sleeves as units were built. They keep a dozen extra out
back somewhere for ones that crap out or get killed by tenants. Major
PITA when that brand or size goes out of production, and they have to
scramble for a 'universal' one to fit that model-specific sleeve.

On Apr 13, 6:19*pm, mm wrote:
Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. *Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? *Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? *I'm sure
the motel AC worked. *It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit
stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past
the sleve and outside? Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide
enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. In
any case, they must work because they are common.

On Apr 15, 7:02*am, wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:19*pm, mm wrote:





Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. *Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? *Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? *I'm sure
the motel AC worked. *It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit
stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past
the sleve and outside? *Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide
enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. * In
any case, they must work because they are common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So what do you guys think?

On Apr 15, 7:02*am, wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:19*pm, mm wrote:





Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. *Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? *Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? *I'm sure
the motel AC worked. *It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit
stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past
the sleve and outside? *Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide
enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. * In
any case, they must work because they are common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What would you do in this situation? Just not fool with it? I could
ger some fans I guess.

On Apr 15, 2:19*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 05:57:04 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:





On Apr 15, 7:02*am, wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:19*pm, mm wrote:

Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. *Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? *Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? *I'm sure
the motel AC worked. *It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit
stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past
the sleve and outside? *Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide
enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. * In
any case, they must work because they are common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What would you do in this situation? Just not fool with it? I could
ger some fans I guess.

Since in other threads you are talking about insulation and an attic
you have the same options as you would have in most homes.

In Florida with poorly insulated houses, big windows and lots of sun
they usually use a quick rule of thumb as a ton (12,000 BTU) per 500
sq ft.
With no windows and R-11 insulation in the walls (3.5" fiberglass
batts) you should be OK with a ton and a half.
The Bard wall hanger somebody mentioned is an option. That is the tall
package style unit you see hanging on the side of a building. Another
option is a regular split system with the Air handler hanging in the
attic or below the ceiling near the center *with some duct work
distributing the air to the ends of the building.

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

JimT wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
A package unit is a box that sits outside a building. One duct draws in
warm indoor air, and another duct delivers cooled AC air to the building.
http://www.aquair.com.au/images/138-3877_IMG.JPG
This image is the closest I could find. There's one on a church a couple
miles from me, I could go take a picture and upload the picture some
where. If you wish.

Holy ****!!!!!! You posted above your sig file! You can see that with
this reply it quoted your text. It's nice that everyone will know what I
replied to!snip

He doesn't get it or he doesn't care. I suspect the latter. He's been asked
a million times.

Look back in this thread, he _did_ reply properly! First time I ever
saw it.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 05:02:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Apr 13, 6:19Â*pm, mm wrote:
Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on
them. Â*Most
come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but
you might
not need even that.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the
back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? Â*Why do apartments come
with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?

They are designed for "sleeve mountable" or "through the wall"
conditioners - NOT window units - and the through the wall units are
not very common - and are relatively expensive.

Standard window units will NOT work in an apartment sleeve - at leat
not MOST of them.

Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? Â*I'm sure
the motel AC worked. Â*It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's
apartment AC also worked.

I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit
stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past
the sleve and outside? Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide
enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. In
any case, they must work because they are common.
It takes at leat 3 inches to get adequate airflow, and it has to be
properly baffled so the heat shed from the back of the unit is not
drawn back in the sides.

On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?


I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?

On Apr 16, 8:09*am, stryped wrote:
On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:





On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?

I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ducts are side by side on your typical package unit. If you go
under the crawl on a house that has one you'll see. Typically a
couple big pieces of flex run from there. If you are putting a
package unit against the side of your garage you could pretty much
butt a return vent right up against the unit. You would still need a
log piece of square duct to get to the attic from the outlet. That'll
be $100 or so from a sheet metal shop that specializes in duct work.

The refreigerant is inside the condensor but to install it properly
you braze or solder the lines, pull a vacuum on the lines and
evaporator. See if it holds to check for leaks. Then open the vavles
on the compressor to let the refrigerant inot the rest of the system.
A brand new system will have enough charge for an evaporator and x
feet of line. A used systemor longer line will require you to add
refreigerant.

The trick to dealing with hvac supply houses is to do your research
ahead of time. You go in and know what you're asking for they will
usually not question you. As long as it's not systems. You need a
certificate and in most states a contractors license to buy a system.
But if all you're after is duct work or boots or somethingthey won't
hassle you. Also good to go middle of the day. Most ofthe pros hit
them first thing in the morning to get ready for a job. You want to
visit when they are not busy.

On Apr 16, 11:19*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 16, 8:09*am, stryped wrote:





On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?

I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ducts are side by side on your typical package unit. *If you go
under the crawl on a house that has one you'll see. *Typically a
couple big pieces of flex run from there. *If you are putting a
package unit against the side of your garage you could pretty much
butt a return vent right up against the unit. *You would still need a
log piece of square duct to get to the attic from the outlet. *That'll
be $100 or so from a sheet metal shop that specializes in duct work.

The refreigerant is inside the condensor but to install it properly
you braze or solder the lines, pull a vacuum on the lines and
evaporator. *See if it holds to check for leaks. *Then open the vavles
on the compressor to let the refrigerant inot the rest of the system.
A brand new system will have enough charge for an evaporator and x
feet of line. *A used systemor longer line will require you to add
refreigerant.

The trick to dealing with hvac supply houses is to do your research
ahead of time. *You go in and know what you're asking for they will
usually not question you. *As long as it's not systems. *You need a
certificate and in most states a contractors license to buy a system.
But if all you're after is duct work or boots or somethingthey won't
hassle you. *Also good to go middle of the day. *Most ofthe pros hit
them first thing in the morning to get ready for a job. *You want to
visit when they are not busy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks so much for the good advice! WOuld you guys run the duct up the
inside wall into the attic, then protrude the registers in the ceiling
or, like in come commerical buildings, would you just hang the duct
and registers below the finished ceiling?

On Apr 16, 12:28*pm, stryped wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:19*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Apr 16, 8:09*am, stryped wrote:

On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?

I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ducts are side by side on your typical package unit. *If you go
under the crawl on a house that has one you'll see. *Typically a
couple big pieces of flex run from there. *If you are putting a
package unit against the side of your garage you could pretty much
butt a return vent right up against the unit. *You would still need a
log piece of square duct to get to the attic from the outlet. *That'll
be $100 or so from a sheet metal shop that specializes in duct work.

The refreigerant is inside the condensor but to install it properly
you braze or solder the lines, pull a vacuum on the lines and
evaporator. *See if it holds to check for leaks. *Then open the vavles
on the compressor to let the refrigerant inot the rest of the system.
A brand new system will have enough charge for an evaporator and x
feet of line. *A used systemor longer line will require you to add
refreigerant.

The trick to dealing with hvac supply houses is to do your research
ahead of time. *You go in and know what you're asking for they will
usually not question you. *As long as it's not systems. *You need a
certificate and in most states a contractors license to buy a system.
But if all you're after is duct work or boots or somethingthey won't
hassle you. *Also good to go middle of the day. *Most ofthe pros hit
them first thing in the morning to get ready for a job. *You want to
visit when they are not busy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks so much for the good advice! WOuld you guys run the duct up the
inside wall into the attic, then protrude the registers in the ceiling
or, like in come commerical buildings, would you just hang the duct
and registers below the finished ceiling?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A lot depends on the exact nature of your situation. I'd probably try
to go for a corner where I could box in the vent going up and run the
distribution above the finished ceiling. But I like to get
professional looking results and you might not care so much about that
in your garage.

On Apr 16, 12:00*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:28*pm, stryped wrote:





On Apr 16, 11:19*am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Apr 16, 8:09*am, stryped wrote:

On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?

I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ducts are side by side on your typical package unit. *If you go
under the crawl on a house that has one you'll see. *Typically a
couple big pieces of flex run from there. *If you are putting a
package unit against the side of your garage you could pretty much
butt a return vent right up against the unit. *You would still need a
log piece of square duct to get to the attic from the outlet. *That'll
be $100 or so from a sheet metal shop that specializes in duct work.

The refreigerant is inside the condensor but to install it properly
you braze or solder the lines, pull a vacuum on the lines and
evaporator. *See if it holds to check for leaks. *Then open the vavles
on the compressor to let the refrigerant inot the rest of the system.
A brand new system will have enough charge for an evaporator and x
feet of line. *A used systemor longer line will require you to add
refreigerant.

The trick to dealing with hvac supply houses is to do your research
ahead of time. *You go in and know what you're asking for they will
usually not question you. *As long as it's not systems. *You need a
certificate and in most states a contractors license to buy a system.
But if all you're after is duct work or boots or somethingthey won't
hassle you. *Also good to go middle of the day. *Most ofthe pros hit
them first thing in the morning to get ready for a job. *You want to
visit when they are not busy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks so much for the good advice! WOuld you guys run the duct up the
inside wall into the attic, then protrude the registers in the ceiling
or, like in come commerical buildings, would you just hang the duct
and registers below the finished ceiling?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A lot depends on the exact nature of your situation. *I'd probably try
to go for a corner where I could box in the vent going up and run the
distribution above the finished ceiling. *But I like to get
professional looking results and you might not care so much about that
in your garage.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like professional results too, I just hate to have an odd blocked
corner. Going on the outside seems easiest but not sure.

I just went to my local Lowes and they have all kinds of duct
material. They dont have the "square duct" like I see on the outside
of building sometimes.

Does a plenium usually come with the air conditioner?

On Apr 16, 12:00*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:28*pm, stryped wrote:





On Apr 16, 11:19*am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Apr 16, 8:09*am, stryped wrote:

On Apr 15, 10:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in
the trade or are you just calling someone?
Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar
to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the
ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that
"package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover
but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini.
Move the air with some fans.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton
2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I
expect to pay in ductwork?

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly
less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect
their commercial customers.
To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a
box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some
fittings.
The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes
a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly
mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down
the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal.
The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is
mastic (gooey stuff that hardens)
You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct
grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so
it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct.
You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the
unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to
equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build.
As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little
off but don't choke it.

I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually
engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal).
.

Would you go outside the building or inside?

One thing I am having trouble invisioning is how the supply and return
air both are positioned on the unit? I mean when I drive down the road
and look at houses with a package unit, all I see is a "metal square"
going into a crawlspace. On metal businesses I see one square duct
going up the side of the building into the roof. Are both the supply
and return lines in that one duct?

I would look at my house but it has a split system.

I also found a guy selling split systems. He said the coolant is still
in the condensor like the factory. ALl that is required is brazing a
copper line from the condensor to the evaporator. It seems there are
alot of these air units around.

The package unti I qoted earlier sounds like it was a good deal. WOuld
2 tons be enough for a 30x30x10?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ducts are side by side on your typical package unit. *If you go
under the crawl on a house that has one you'll see. *Typically a
couple big pieces of flex run from there. *If you are putting a
package unit against the side of your garage you could pretty much
butt a return vent right up against the unit. *You would still need a
log piece of square duct to get to the attic from the outlet. *That'll
be $100 or so from a sheet metal shop that specializes in duct work.

The refreigerant is inside the condensor but to install it properly
you braze or solder the lines, pull a vacuum on the lines and
evaporator. *See if it holds to check for leaks. *Then open the vavles
on the compressor to let the refrigerant inot the rest of the system.
A brand new system will have enough charge for an evaporator and x
feet of line. *A used systemor longer line will require you to add
refreigerant.

The trick to dealing with hvac supply houses is to do your research
ahead of time. *You go in and know what you're asking for they will
usually not question you. *As long as it's not systems. *You need a
certificate and in most states a contractors license to buy a system.
But if all you're after is duct work or boots or somethingthey won't
hassle you. *Also good to go middle of the day. *Most ofthe pros hit
them first thing in the morning to get ready for a job. *You want to
visit when they are not busy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks so much for the good advice! WOuld you guys run the duct up the
inside wall into the attic, then protrude the registers in the ceiling
or, like in come commerical buildings, would you just hang the duct
and registers below the finished ceiling?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A lot depends on the exact nature of your situation. *I'd probably try
to go for a corner where I could box in the vent going up and run the
distribution above the finished ceiling. *But I like to get
professional looking results and you might not care so much about that
in your garage.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One thought, can all this ductwork touch a combustable surface?

Also are the ports out the back of the package unit typically round or
square?