Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to bill
http://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketing
http://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

On Apr 7, 3:39*am, 3ndy wrote:
Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to billhttp://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketinghttp://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

But so many unanswered questions!!!!!!

1) Living where there is sufficient sun? How many days per year?
2) Cost of batteries to store power during day for use at night etc.?
3) First cost of solar cells? Even if at one dollar per watt probably
a first cost of $3000 or so?
If solar cells cost five dollars per watt then $15,000?
4) If self installing; cost of inverter to turn battery electrcity
into usable AC 'mains type' electrcity?
5) other costs, wiring etc.
6) If planning to sell surplus power, produced by solar, back into
local electricity grid; what rate will power utility pay.
7) One estimate; to produce any appreciable amount of power in a
suitable climate ranged upward from $10,000?

A local ad. here showed an 180 watt solar panel selling for $800, on
sale. Since it s frequently cloudy here that might produce, say 90
watts-per hour, during the day, some days. That's not enough to
warrant large expenditures. For each $1000 of outlay, one can buy a
third or more of a year's electricity and that includes heating of
this all-electric four bedroom home in a cool climate with a long
winter.

Contrary opinions welcomed.

On Apr 7, 4:00*am, terry wrote:
On Apr 7, 3:39*am, 3ndy wrote:

Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to billhttp://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketinghttp://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

But so many unanswered questions!!!!!!

1) Living where there is sufficient sun? How many days per year?
2) Cost of batteries to store power during day for use at night etc.?
3) First cost of solar cells? Even if at one dollar per watt probably
a first cost of $3000 or so?
If solar cells cost five dollars per watt then $15,000?
4) If self installing; cost of inverter to turn battery electrcity
into usable AC 'mains type' electrcity?
5) other costs, wiring etc.
6) If planning to sell surplus power, produced by solar, *back into
local electricity grid; what rate will power utility pay.
7) One estimate; to produce any appreciable amount of power in a
suitable climate ranged upward from $10,000?

A local ad. here showed an 180 watt solar panel selling for $800, on
sale. Since it s frequently cloudy here that might produce, say 90
watts-per hour, during the day, some days. That's not enough to
warrant large expenditures. For each $1000 of outlay, one can buy a
third or more of a year's electricity and that includes heating of
this all-electric four bedroom home in a cool climate with a long
winter.

Contrary opinions welcomed.


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 4:00 am, terry wrote:
On Apr 7, 3:39 am, 3ndy wrote:

Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to billhttp://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketinghttp://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

But so many unanswered questions!!!!!!

1) Living where there is sufficient sun? How many days per year?
2) Cost of batteries to store power during day for use at night etc.?
3) First cost of solar cells? Even if at one dollar per watt probably
a first cost of $3000 or so?
If solar cells cost five dollars per watt then $15,000?
4) If self installing; cost of inverter to turn battery electrcity
into usable AC 'mains type' electrcity?
5) other costs, wiring etc.
6) If planning to sell surplus power, produced by solar, back into
local electricity grid; what rate will power utility pay.
7) One estimate; to produce any appreciable amount of power in a
suitable climate ranged upward from $10,000?

A local ad. here showed an 180 watt solar panel selling for $800, on
sale. Since it s frequently cloudy here that might produce, say 90
watts-per hour, during the day, some days. That's not enough to
warrant large expenditures. For each $1000 of outlay, one can buy a
third or more of a year's electricity and that includes heating of
this all-electric four bedroom home in a cool climate with a long
winter.

Contrary opinions welcomed.


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective, we'd
all be tripping over each other to get it.

RBM wrote:


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective,
we'd all be tripping over each other to get it.

It's not just "cost effective," it's generally impossible.

The amount of radiant energy falling on the earth is 120 watts/sq meter. At
the equator. At noon. With no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, 12 hours of
darkness, clouds, and time of day, one would average about 1/3 the maximum,
or 40 watts/sq meter. An 1800 sq ft house would capture, then, (assuming 70%
efficiency of the solar collector) 560 watts, or about 1/2 kw.

That's enough for one light bulb (non-CFL), and one TV or one computer.
Forget about the fridge.

You can nibble at the margins, but you can't run this country - or an
average house - off of sunbeams, irrespective of the cost.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
RBM wrote:


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective,
we'd all be tripping over each other to get it.

It's not just "cost effective," it's generally impossible.

The amount of radiant energy falling on the earth is 120 watts/sq meter.
At the equator. At noon. With no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, 12 hours
of darkness, clouds, and time of day, one would average about 1/3 the
maximum, or 40 watts/sq meter. An 1800 sq ft house would capture, then,
(assuming 70% efficiency of the solar collector) 560 watts, or about 1/2
kw.

That's enough for one light bulb (non-CFL), and one TV or one computer.
Forget about the fridge.

You can nibble at the margins, but you can't run this country - or an
average house - off of sunbeams, irrespective of the cost.


Methinks you left off a zero: Should be 1200 W/m^2.
Nominal 100 W/sq ft.

Ackshooly, it varies from 900 to 1500 W/m^2, depending on lattitude,
altitude, etc.

Selective-surface collectors can substantially exceed 70% -- good mostly for
HW (heat, domestic), which can be a big % of used juice. Also, these
collectors are proly a lot cheaper than photovoltaics.
You can make pretty good ones DIY, as well.

PV's are up to what, now, 15% efficiency??
And I thought I read somewhere that PV's could be had for about $1/watt???

Also, I wonder what the lifespan of PV's are.
--
EA

On Apr 7, 10:33*am, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:11:01 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:



RBM wrote:

A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. *This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. * After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. *For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective,
we'd all be tripping over each other to get it.

It's not just "cost effective," it's generally impossible.

The amount of radiant energy falling on the earth is 120 watts/sq meter. At

1000W/sq meter

the equator. At noon. With no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, 12 hours of
darkness, clouds, and time of day, one would average about 1/3 the maximum,
or 40 watts/sq meter. An 1800 sq ft house would capture, then, (assuming 70%
efficiency of the solar collector) 560 watts, or about 1/2 kw.

You'd do good at 20% conversion efficiency and 1/3 is optimistic.

That's enough for one light bulb (non-CFL), and one TV or one computer.
Forget about the fridge.

You can nibble at the margins, but you can't run this country - or an
average house - off of sunbeams, irrespective of the cost.

Yet, people somehow are able to do it, even though you say it can't be
done.

Some have no choice (built off grid) and fools live everywhere.

Also take into account that people who do this, are likely very
interested in the subject of alternative energy, and may have taken
other measures to both conserve and produce power. Solar works quite
well for heating water in many places. Another really impressive
technology that DOES have a reasonably good ROI despite high initial
cost, is geo-thermal.

Photo-voltaic's don't have to be a complete solution in order to be a
worthwhile proposition. What's the ROI on your car? Is it at least the
most cost efficient car you could possibly own? Is it as cheap as
taking mass transit? If not, then I guess using a car for
transportation isn't economically feasible.

The ROI on my car is quite good, actually (something like 2,500%). It
allows me to go to work every day.

On Apr 7, 11:33*am, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:11:01 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:





RBM wrote:

A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. *This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. * After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. *For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective,
we'd all be tripping over each other to get it.

It's not just "cost effective," it's generally impossible.

The amount of radiant energy falling on the earth is 120 watts/sq meter. At
the equator. At noon. With no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, 12 hours of
darkness, clouds, and time of day, one would average about 1/3 the maximum,
or 40 watts/sq meter. An 1800 sq ft house would capture, then, (assuming 70%
efficiency of the solar collector) 560 watts, or about 1/2 kw.

That's enough for one light bulb (non-CFL), and one TV or one computer.
Forget about the fridge.

You can nibble at the margins, but you can't run this country - or an
average house - off of sunbeams, irrespective of the cost.

Yet, people somehow are able to do it, even though you say it can't be
done.

That is true. Something has to be wrong with the math, because you
can indeed buy a sytem in the 6KW range and put it on an average house
roof. It doesn't even cover anywhere near the whole roof, maybe 40%
or so I'd say. 6KW is an order of magnitude more than HB's claimed
1/2 KW.




Also take into account that people who do this, are likely very
interested in the subject of alternative energy, and may have taken
other measures to both conserve and produce power. Solar works quite
well for heating water in many places. Another really impressive
technology that DOES have a reasonably good ROI despite high initial
cost, is geo-thermal.

Photo-voltaic's don't have to be a complete solution in order to be a
worthwhile proposition. What's the ROI on your car? Is it at least the
most cost efficient car you could possibly own? Is it as cheap as
taking mass transit? If not, then I guess using a car for
transportation isn't economically feasible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The analogy here would be paying $50K for a car that has the same
performance, size, and features as a toyota corolla. There are some
applications where it is cost effective to use solar electric because
there is no grid. But what we're talking about here is the 95%
installed in populated areas with the rest of the taxpayers and future
taxpayers getting stuck with paying the extra $25K bill.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:12:03 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 4:00 am, terry wrote:
On Apr 7, 3:39 am, 3ndy wrote:

Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to billhttp://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketinghttp://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

But so many unanswered questions!!!!!!

1) Living where there is sufficient sun? How many days per year?
2) Cost of batteries to store power during day for use at night etc.?
3) First cost of solar cells? Even if at one dollar per watt probably
a first cost of $3000 or so?
If solar cells cost five dollars per watt then $15,000?
4) If self installing; cost of inverter to turn battery electrcity
into usable AC 'mains type' electrcity?
5) other costs, wiring etc.
6) If planning to sell surplus power, produced by solar, back into
local electricity grid; what rate will power utility pay.
7) One estimate; to produce any appreciable amount of power in a
suitable climate ranged upward from $10,000?

A local ad. here showed an 180 watt solar panel selling for $800, on
sale. Since it s frequently cloudy here that might produce, say 90
watts-per hour, during the day, some days. That's not enough to
warrant large expenditures. For each $1000 of outlay, one can buy a
third or more of a year's electricity and that includes heating of
this all-electric four bedroom home in a cool climate with a long
winter.

Contrary opinions welcomed.


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective, we'd
all be tripping over each other to get it.


It's very cost effective on my boat!

I'll bet there are lots of other places where it is cost effective.

My point exactly, in the scheme of electrical usage, your boat isn't even on
the meter

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:01:45 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:12:03 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 4:00 am, terry wrote:
On Apr 7, 3:39 am, 3ndy wrote:

Step by step guides and video.
Cut energy costs to billhttp://gogonai.com/home-solar-generation
enri patuly
Marketinghttp://tinyurl.com/7hou5t

But so many unanswered questions!!!!!!

1) Living where there is sufficient sun? How many days per year?
2) Cost of batteries to store power during day for use at night etc.?
3) First cost of solar cells? Even if at one dollar per watt probably
a first cost of $3000 or so?
If solar cells cost five dollars per watt then $15,000?
4) If self installing; cost of inverter to turn battery electrcity
into usable AC 'mains type' electrcity?
5) other costs, wiring etc.
6) If planning to sell surplus power, produced by solar, back into
local electricity grid; what rate will power utility pay.
7) One estimate; to produce any appreciable amount of power in a
suitable climate ranged upward from $10,000?

A local ad. here showed an 180 watt solar panel selling for $800, on
sale. Since it s frequently cloudy here that might produce, say 90
watts-per hour, during the day, some days. That's not enough to
warrant large expenditures. For each $1000 of outlay, one can buy a
third or more of a year's electricity and that includes heating of
this all-electric four bedroom home in a cool climate with a long
winter.

Contrary opinions welcomed.


A 6KW system for a home costs about $48K. This means that it is
totally unviable compared to other electricity generation options.
The only way it becomes viable is for the govt to hand out more money
to get you to install one. After the gov pays for around half of the
cost, then it can make economic sense for the homeowner. For the
taxpayers, it's a loser.

In general, people aren't stupid. If solar energy was cost effective,
we'd
all be tripping over each other to get it.


It's very cost effective on my boat!

I'll bet there are lots of other places where it is cost effective.

My point exactly, in the scheme of electrical usage, your boat isn't even
on
the meter



There are many places where power lines don't reach.

And for those that need real electricity in those locations, God created
diesel generators