Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

Bob Villa wrote:
Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

I'll add the misc.rural group. Plenty of help there probably.

I think the easiest way to check for a bad bladder would be to turn the pump
off and drain the system water to zero and leave a faucet open near the
pump.

Now measure the pressure tank bladder pressure. It should measure something
and you should be able to add more air and the pressure should go up.

If not, the bladder is bad and is letting the air out.

To check for a hole in the pump pipe, one might turn off the main valve at
the pump and let the pump, pump up to pressure. It should stay up to
pressure and not drop. If the pressure drops, then either the foot valve
isn't working or you may have a hole in the pipe. You have to watch out for
where check valves are if you do this, as there can't be a check valve at
the pump, between the gage and the leak, or it won't let it drain back.

--
Bob Noble
http://www.sonic.net/bnoble

"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
...
Bob Villa wrote:
Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

I'll add the misc.rural group. Plenty of help there probably.

Bob Noble wrote:
I think the easiest way to check for a bad bladder would be to turn the
pump off and drain the system water to zero and leave a faucet open near
the pump.

Now measure the pressure tank bladder pressure. It should measure
something and you should be able to add more air and the pressure should
go up.

If not, the bladder is bad and is letting the air out.

To check for a hole in the pump pipe, one might turn off the main valve
at the pump and let the pump, pump up to pressure. It should stay up to
pressure and not drop. If the pressure drops, then either the foot valve
isn't working or you may have a hole in the pipe. You have to watch out
for where check valves are if you do this, as there can't be a check
valve at the pump, between the gage and the leak, or it won't let it
drain back.


Just to add to that, if the bladder is damaged you'll also find that the
pump is cycling off and on much more frequently. Air is compressible and
water is not. So when you open a tap the pressure of the water in the
tank (static pressure) drops much more rapidly causing the pump to cut in.

On Feb 7, 8:33*pm, OldHobo wrote:


Just to add to that, if the bladder is damaged you'll also find that the
pump is cycling off and on much more frequently. Air is compressible and
water is not. So when you open a tap the pressure of the water in the
tank (static pressure) drops much more rapidly causing the pump to cut in..

Ditto - that was the first symptom when my bladder failed. Plus it
didn't take long for a rusty tint to show in the water. Evidently
they didn't bother painting the inside of the tank since water is not
supposed to be in contact with it.

KC

On Feb 7, 1:56*pm, Bob Villa wrote:
Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. *I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. *On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. *Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

1. Your on/off and precharge pressures are correct.
2. You will not get water out of that valve unless the bladder is
broken.

Sign of a broken bladder is the pump 'short cycling' (turning on and
off rapidly).

Dunno where the air comes from, I get some occasionally also.

Harry K

On Feb 7, 5:50*pm, "Bob Noble" wrote:
I think the easiest way to check for a bad bladder would be to turn the pump
off and drain the system water to zero and leave a faucet open near the
pump.

Now measure the pressure tank bladder pressure. It should measure something
and you should be able to add more air and the pressure should go up.

If not, the bladder is bad and is letting the air out.

To check for a *hole in the pump pipe, one might turn off the main valve at
the pump and let the pump, pump up to pressure. It should stay up to
pressure and not drop. If the pressure drops, then either the foot valve
isn't working or you may have a hole in the pipe. You have to watch out for
where check valves are if you do this, as there can't be a check valve at
the pump, between the gage and the leak, or it won't let it drain back.


snip

Good points for an above ground pump. Submerged pumps have a
checkvalve at the pump.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 1:56 pm, Bob Villa wrote:
Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

1. Your on/off and precharge pressures are correct.
2. You will not get water out of that valve unless the bladder is
broken.

Sign of a broken bladder is the pump 'short cycling' (turning on and
off rapidly).

Dunno where the air comes from, I get some occasionally also.

Harry K


As do I...Always thought it had something to do with the water
softener/filter system...Never worried about it...Everything is almost
new...

On Feb 10, 10:11*pm, "benick" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Feb 7, 1:56 pm, Bob Villa wrote:

Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?

TIA
bob

1. *Your on/off and precharge pressures are correct.
2. *You will not get water out of that valve unless the bladder is
broken.

Sign of a broken bladder is the pump 'short cycling' (turning on and
off rapidly).

Dunno where the air comes from, I get some occasionally also.

Harry K

As do I...Always thought it had something to do with the water
softener/filter system...Never worried about it...Everything is almost
new...

I had changed the water filter about 2 weeks prior...and I get some
air after.
Can the water heater (NG) expand air into the cold pipes?
I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

bob

Bob Villa wrote:
On Feb 10, 10:11 pm, "benick" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Feb 7, 1:56 pm, Bob Villa wrote:

Lately, I'm getting some air in the system. I don't get any water if
I release pressure from the tire valve on the pressure tank. On
pressure is 28PSI off is 48, and the pressure in membrane with pump
off is 27PSI (as best as I can measure).
I can hear air when the tank is emptying with the pump off. Can I
tell if the membrane is bad or the pump is sucking air somehow (going
dry or whatever)?
TIA
bob
1. Your on/off and precharge pressures are correct.
2. You will not get water out of that valve unless the bladder is
broken.

Sign of a broken bladder is the pump 'short cycling' (turning on and
off rapidly).

Dunno where the air comes from, I get some occasionally also.

Harry K

As do I...Always thought it had something to do with the water
softener/filter system...Never worried about it...Everything is almost
new...

I had changed the water filter about 2 weeks prior...and I get some
air after.
Can the water heater (NG) expand air into the cold pipes?
I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony
wrote:

[snip]

I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!

I hate it when people "thank the lord" for everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.
--
"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

NotX wrote the following:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony
wrote:

[snip]


I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!


I hate it when people "thank the lord" for everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.

The Lord tells people how to do things. I know, because I have a
converstion with the Lord all the time, or maybe I'm just talking to
myself..

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

I know he's got a chain of clothing stores, Lord
Taylor. So, why not plumbing?

Did you know that God lives in the bathroom? I
heard my so, many years back. Dad was banging on
the bathroom, and yelling "My God! My God! Are you
still in there?"

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"NotX" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony

wrote:

[snip]

I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in
the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!

I hate it when people "thank the lord" for
everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.
--
"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

I've gotten enough personal revelation. I know
that God is real. Hasn't been deep well advice,
yet, but it could easily be.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"willshak" wrote in
message
m...

The Lord tells people how to do things. I know,
because I have a
converstion with the Lord all the time, or maybe
I'm just talking to
myself..

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

NotX wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony
wrote:

[snip]

I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!
The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!

I hate it when people "thank the lord" for everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.

Some of the sickest people out there are the stars on all the award
shows. They thank gawd for making them a good actor, singer, special
effects person, while leaving other people starve. Do these celebrities
really think they are above most everyone else because gawd made them so
great? Well of course we know Tom Cruise believes he is better than
most of us, but he's so f*cked up he doesn't even count as a human.

On Feb 13, 3:23*pm, NotX wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony
wrote:

[snip]

I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? *Is he listed in the yellow pages? *If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!

I hate it when people "thank the lord" for everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.
--
"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

Odd that they thank him for the good things but never blame him for
the bad.

Harry K

On Feb 13, 11:33*pm, Harry K wrote:


Odd that they thank him for the good things but never blame him for
the bad.

Harry K

Not to start a flame war here...but WE cause the bad...not Him! (In
the way that reckless behavior gets you killed.) We know what we are
doing...but we do it anyway.

bob

On Feb 14, 6:19*am, Bob Villa wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:33*pm, Harry K wrote:



Odd that they thank him for the good things but never blame him for
the bad.

Harry K

Not to start a flame war here...but WE cause the bad...not Him! *(In
the way that reckless behavior gets you killed.) *We know what we are
doing...but we do it anyway.

bob

So WE don't cause the good? As for the bad, why does He allow the
devil to continue.

Wrong forum for this type discussion but the 'thank God' and 'God
loves you' grates on the nonreligious persons ears.

Harry K

On Feb 14, 9:25*am, Harry K wrote:


Wrong forum for this type discussion but the 'thank God' and 'God
loves you' grates on the nonreligious persons ears.

Harry K

As does atheist's rants about 'no God'. Quite frankly those rants are
much more strongly voiced than a "thank God". And as for the wrong
forum, right or wrong the issue is so ingrained in each of us that it
just naturally comes out no matter what we are discussing. To
proselytize in this forum is inappropriate, but to use common everyday
language is not.

KC

On Feb 14, 8:16*am, KC wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:25*am, Harry K wrote:



Wrong forum for this type discussion but the 'thank God' and 'God
loves you' grates on the nonreligious persons ears.

Harry K

As does atheist's rants about 'no God'. *Quite frankly those rants are
much more strongly voiced than a "thank God". *And as for the wrong
forum, right or wrong the issue is so ingrained in each of us that it
just naturally comes out no matter what we are discussing. *To
proselytize in this forum is inappropriate, but to use common everyday
language is not.

KC

Common everyday language in reply to an atheist not discussing
reliegion that "god loves you" is not proper, or even polite. It is
wrong on two points of logic to begin with.

1. YOu do not know if god loves him/her or not.
2. What right do you have to speak for god?

Harry K

1. YOu do not know if god loves him/her or not.
2. What right do you have to speak for god?

Harry K

Yes we can...God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. We are ALL
welcomed back and forgiven...as a good parent would do.

bob

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:38:25 -0500, willshak
wrote:

NotX wrote the following:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:24 -0500, Tony
wrote:

[snip]


I haven't had any more issues...thank the Lord!

The lord fixes water heaters? Is he listed in the yellow pages? If I'm
gonna call someone I want to call the best!


I hate it when people "thank the lord" for everything, while ignoring
those who actually DO the things.

The Lord tells people how to do things. I know, because I have a
converstion with the Lord all the time, or maybe I'm just talking to
myself..

and who cleans up the mess afterward?

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:46:58 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've gotten enough personal revelation. I know
that God is real. Hasn't been deep well advice,
yet, but it could easily be.


[snip]

A real piece of ****? :-)

You didn't say...

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:46:00 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I know he's got a chain of clothing stores, Lord
Taylor. So, why not plumbing?

Did you know that God lives in the bathroom? I
heard my so, many years back. Dad was banging on
the bathroom, and yelling "My God! My God! Are you
still in there?"


I have a God-powered light in my bathroom. It's so sensitive it takes
only 20uD to light. Only 1/50,000,000 of a supreme being is required
to light it.

[snip]

On Feb 15, 8:58*pm, Sam E wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:46:00 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"


I have a God-powered light in my bathroom. It's so sensitive it takes
only 20uD to light. Only 1/50,000,000 of a supreme being is required
to light it.

[snip]

What is a micro "D", sorry? And you must be quite special to measure
that small an amount!

bob