My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Ideas?

On Jan 31, 9:35*pm, mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Ideas?

All I can say is humidifier ratings are for above 70f and higher
humidities and some dont even perform at rated spec as Ive returned a
few that were cheap junk, so at 68f it might do half of rated amount.
I think she is wrong but why not get a good rated unit and just let
her dehumidify her bedroom, if it is a cause there is a good place to
start. How big is the home, 65% is not high at all. A bicycle solved
my knee issues, and alcohol will make them hurt all the time.

On Jan 31, 9:35*pm, mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Ideas?

Related to humidity -How? Worse or better when humidity is low/high???

"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.


Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA


Ideas?

Existential Angst wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.


Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.

Thanks for the nutrition info, but it's not me you need to convince.
I've been asked to solve a particular problem, humidity.
I can cooperate and address what she wants addressed or argue with her
over weather related pain she's experiencing.

On Feb 1, 2:06*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"mike" wrote in message

...





My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA



Ideas?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important

On Feb 1, 6:55*am, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:06*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:





"mike" wrote in message

...

My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA

Ideas?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below. Have you tried more
than one humidity gauge?

What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.

wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:55 am, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:06 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:





"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.
I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".
What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.
Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.
A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.
I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.
So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.
There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.
I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.
Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). Also has a decent glucosamine formula.
Yes yes yes yes yes: suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA
Ideas?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below.

Unusual or not, she wants to try the humidity LOWER than it currently is.
Have you tried more
than one humidity gauge?
Yes, but doesn't matter. Want it LOWER.

Thank you all for input, but I'm not getting anything like what I
asked for. I didn't ask what size. I asked how measured.
If dehumidifiers are rated (rather vaguely) at high humidity and high
temperature,
what performance can I expect at much lower temperatures and humidities?

Again, I'm not interested in arguing the concept with my neighbor.
I'm interested in helping her achieve what she asks for,
lower humidity.
I'm attempting to determine if a typical dehumidifier will be effective
given the initial conditions.


What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.

mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Idea
Hi,
Where do you live?
Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation
coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases.
Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation. Narrow down the
cause and start treating it. There are such food which makes pain worse
as well. For test purpose you can boil water generating lot of steam
in a room. A/C unit already drys air pretty good.

On Feb 1, 4:05*pm, mike wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:55 am, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:06 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.
I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day..
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".
What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.
Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.
A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.
I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.
So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.
There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.
I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.
Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.
Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA
Ideas?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. * With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below.

Unusual or not, she wants to try the humidity LOWER than it currently is.
* * Have you tried more than one humidity gauge?

Yes, but doesn't matter. *Want it LOWER.

Thank you all for input, but I'm not getting anything like what I
asked for. *I didn't ask what size. *I asked how measured.
If dehumidifiers are rated (rather vaguely) at high humidity and high
temperature,
what performance can I expect at much lower temperatures and humidities?

Again, I'm not interested in arguing the concept with my neighbor.
I'm interested in helping her achieve what she asks for,
lower humidity.
I'm attempting to determine if a typical dehumidifier will be effective
given the initial conditions.





What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. * *To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. *Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. * If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dont expect what the unit is rated at, most units may freeze up below
68, at 68 I will guess 65-80% of rated output. If it gets below 68 get
a low temp model. Its a house so get the biggest unit, a 70-75pint if
its near 1000 sq ft and even then that might not be enough depending
on the construction of the house. I can run two units 120 pint total
in a tight 1900 sq ft place and get maybe 35-45% drop. You gave no
info on the house so who knows you might need, 4 units or one, thats
why I think try it in the bedroom since thats where alot of time is
spent. You really have to just buy one and try it but the small units
can be a waste of time and energy. I bought a 50pt HD Haier that
pulled out 25pt at 70f and consumed about 410 watts. I have a 65pint
old sears thats pulls 435 watts and removes near 55-60 pint, the Sears
is Energy Star rated the New HD haiers are not Energy Star rated that
I got last july, I returned it . You dont give any house info to
figure whats needed, so maybe you need 10 of them.

Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Idea
Hi,
Where do you live?
Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation
coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases.
Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation.

Barometric pressure changes can make joints hurt until the inside
pressure of the bones equalize with the ambient pressure. That's why
people say they know when it's going to rain, normally the barometric
pressure falls before the rain arrives so they have more pain. A lot of
people tie this into it actually raining, and/or humidity, and can
convince themselves quite easily that the actual rain, or humidity
effects the joint pain. I always found the humidity wives tale funny.
Does the humidity inside your knee change with the ambient humidity? Of
course not.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Idea
Hi,
Where do you live?
Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation
coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases.
Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation.

Barometric pressure changes can make joints hurt until the inside pressure
of the bones equalize with the ambient pressure. That's why people say
they know when it's going to rain, normally the barometric pressure falls
before the rain arrives so they have more pain. A lot of people tie this
into it actually raining, and/or humidity, and can convince themselves
quite easily that the actual rain, or humidity effects the joint pain. I
always found the humidity wives tale funny. Does the humidity inside your
knee change with the ambient humidity? Of course not.

Very inneresting, and make some sense -- altho, the barometric pressure
would proly have to change pretty quickly for this to be an issue, no? The
"bends" in joints?!
Where did you come across this tidbit?

I would imagine a good test of this would be driving up in altitude. Any
idea of what the barometric change is per 1,000 feet elevation, and what the
typical change in pressure before rain?
--
EA

On Feb 1, 5:05*pm, mike wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:55 am, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:06 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.
I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day..
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".
What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.
Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.
A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.
I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.
So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.
There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.
I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.
Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.
Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA
Ideas?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. * With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below.

Unusual or not, she wants to try the humidity LOWER than it currently is.
* * Have you tried more than one humidity gauge?

Yes, but doesn't matter. *Want it LOWER.

Thank you all for input, but I'm not getting anything like what I
asked for. *I didn't ask what size. *I asked how measured.
If dehumidifiers are rated (rather vaguely) at high humidity and high
temperature,
what performance can I expect at much lower temperatures and humidities?

Again, I'm not interested in arguing the concept with my neighbor.
I'm interested in helping her achieve what she asks for,
lower humidity.
I'm attempting to determine if a typical dehumidifier will be effective
given the initial conditions.


If she has forced air heat and is not running a humidifier, her indoor
humidity is likely already 30-40% this time of year. I know mine
would be; it's *never* in the "ideal" zone of 45-55% unless I modify
it somehow other than for maybe a week or two out of the year. In the
summer, it's always humid, and when the furnace runs, it's always dry.

So... this time of year pretty much any humidifier should work,
although make sure that it can be set low enough to make a noticeable
difference (e.g. the one in my basement, which I believe is a
Frigidaire brand, I think the minimum setting, other than "continuous"
is 40% RH)

nate

On Feb 1, 7:14*am, wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:55*am, ransley wrote:





On Feb 1, 2:06*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message

...

My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA

Ideas?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. * With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below. * Have you tried more
than one humidity gauge?

What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. * *To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. *Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. * If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thats a good point, analog Humidistats are sold out of calibration,
most digital are better , but do they even know what it really is? It
is most likely alot lower, today Its 31 outside and 38% inside on a
calibrated humidistat right infront of me, 65% you dont untill its
near 70 and raining out. What the lady needs is a bicycle that is used
1/2hr a day

On Feb 2, 6:35*pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 7:14*am, wrote:





On Feb 1, 6:55*am, ransley wrote:

On Feb 1, 2:06*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message

...

My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.

A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.

I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.

So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.

There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.

I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.

Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.

Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA

Ideas?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. * With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below. * Have you tried more
than one humidity gauge?

What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. * *To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. *Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. * If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thats a good point, analog Humidistats are sold out of calibration,
most digital are better , but do they even know what it really is? It
is most likely alot lower, today Its 31 outside and 38% inside on a
calibrated humidistat right infront of me, 65% you dont untill its
near 70 and raining out. What the lady needs is a bicycle that is used
1/2hr a day- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


And in the final analysis, I'm not sure that it makes all that much
difference exactly how various manufacturers rate their units. How
much they take out is only one part of the equation. The other is how
much humidity is being put into the air from various sources. Knowing
one without the other wouldn't seem to solve the problem. From a
practical standpoint, I wouldn't over analyze it. Since it's
apparently a whole house, I'd just buy one of the bigger units at a
good price from a store where I know the return policy will allow me
to bring it back if it doesn't do the job.

Existential Angst wrote:
wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Idea
Hi,
Where do you live?
Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation
coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases.
Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation.

Barometric pressure changes can make joints hurt until the inside pressure
of the bones equalize with the ambient pressure. That's why people say
they know when it's going to rain, normally the barometric pressure falls
before the rain arrives so they have more pain. A lot of people tie this
into it actually raining, and/or humidity, and can convince themselves
quite easily that the actual rain, or humidity effects the joint pain. I
always found the humidity wives tale funny. Does the humidity inside your
knee change with the ambient humidity? Of course not.

Very inneresting, and make some sense -- altho, the barometric pressure
would proly have to change pretty quickly for this to be an issue, no? The
"bends" in joints?!
Where did you come across this tidbit?

I would imagine a good test of this would be driving up in altitude. Any
idea of what the barometric change is per 1,000 feet elevation, and what the
typical change in pressure before rain?
Hi,
Inflammation also causes swelling. Pusj the spot, pain increases.
Pressure will affect it I guess.

Existential Angst wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.

I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day.
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty
"tight".

What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.

Idea
Hi,
Where do you live?
Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation
coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases.
Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation.
Barometric pressure changes can make joints hurt until the inside pressure
of the bones equalize with the ambient pressure. That's why people say
they know when it's going to rain, normally the barometric pressure falls
before the rain arrives so they have more pain. A lot of people tie this
into it actually raining, and/or humidity, and can convince themselves
quite easily that the actual rain, or humidity effects the joint pain. I
always found the humidity wives tale funny. Does the humidity inside your
knee change with the ambient humidity? Of course not.

Very inneresting, and make some sense -- altho, the barometric pressure
would proly have to change pretty quickly for this to be an issue, no? The
"bends" in joints?!
Where did you come across this tidbit?

I would imagine a good test of this would be driving up in altitude. Any
idea of what the barometric change is per 1,000 feet elevation, and what the
typical change in pressure before rain?

Didn't see your reply earlier. If still interested just google
barometric pressure + joint pain.

On Feb 1, 3:05*pm, mike wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 1, 6:55 am, ransley wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:06 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity.
To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers.
But I'm hopelessly confused. *About the only specs I find
are "pints/24 hours removed". *Under what conditions?
The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet
to extremely humid.
I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts.
Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is
very low and it'll
be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day..
Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. *The house is pretty
"tight".
What are my options to construct an experiment?
She has central air, so I could alternate between heat
and cooling???? *But that sounds like a lot more cooling
than dehumidifying.
Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.
A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except
neater, and with a net heating effect.
I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.
So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all
that often.
There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to
run the A/C, and then also run some heat.
I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be
pretty reliable. *A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's
seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.
Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can
be a big factor.
Diet no-no's: *any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice,
Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc.
A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. *Add peripheral foods as
required.
Yes-yes's: *gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm.
More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland
Mature multi is good, no iron). *Also has a decent glucosamine formula.
Yes yes yes yes yes: * suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for
some), and often inversion.
--
EA
Ideas?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated
output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this
day an age of cheap import junk is important- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when
it's 45 outside. * With the heat running part of the time to keep it
warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below.

Unusual or not, she wants to try the humidity LOWER than it currently is.
* * Have you tried more than one humidity gauge?

Yes, but doesn't matter. *Want it LOWER.

Thank you all for input, but I'm not getting anything like what I
asked for. *I didn't ask what size. *I asked how measured.
If dehumidifiers are rated (rather vaguely) at high humidity and high
temperature,
what performance can I expect at much lower temperatures and humidities?

Again, I'm not interested in arguing the concept with my neighbor.
I'm interested in helping her achieve what she asks for,
lower humidity.
I'm attempting to determine if a typical dehumidifier will be effective
given the initial conditions.





What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated,
which is how big the house is. * *To do a whole house, I'd say you
want one of the larger units. *Better to err on the side of a little
too big than too small. * If you plan on running it long term as
opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it
so that you can set it up to be self-draining.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suggest just picking up a cheap HD model and plug it in. After a
few days, if she is still complaining then tell her its not the
humidity. If she still complains that the dehumidifier is not working
properly, act like you're adjusting it and add some water to it when
she isn't looking. A few days later show her the added water and I'll
bet she starts to feel better...

I'm not impressed with this dehumidifier discussion.
The best dehumidifier right now is to open the door.
By the physics, cold air holds very little moisture.
Bring that cold, dry air in, and heat it to 70 degrees,
and you will be getting close to the relative humidity of
the Sahara Desert.
I suspect that the neighbor has become accustomed
to the changing barometric pressure and its associated
weather, and has drarn the relationship to the observed
moisture levels rather than the unobserved barometric
pressure.
Push on her sternum with the soft pad of your thumb.
It should not hurt.

On Feb 5, 6:45*pm, rlz wrote:

I suggest just picking up a cheap HD model and plug it in. *After a
few days, if she is still complaining then tell her its not the
humidity. *If she still complains that the dehumidifier is not working
properly, act like you're adjusting it and add some water to it when
she isn't looking. *A few days later show her the added water and I'll
bet she starts to feel better...

On Feb 5, 8:43*pm, Michael B wrote:
I'm not impressed with this dehumidifier discussion.
The best dehumidifier right now is to open the door.
By the physics, cold air holds very little moisture.
Bring that cold, dry air in, and heat it to 70 degrees,
and you will be getting close to the relative humidity of
the Sahara Desert.

And I'm sure most of us here are not impressed with your approach,
because it has two problems:

1 - It assumes that it is fairly cold where they are located. The OP
stated that is was 45 outside. Raising 45 degree air to 70 isn't
going to be as effective as it you were raising 20 degree air. We
also don't know what the humidity outside is. If it's 45 and damp,
obviously you have a problem.

2 - But the far bigger problem is opening the door is a huge waste of
energy and dollar bills are flying out the door. A dehumidifier
removes the moisture and the electric energy it uses turns up as heat
which helps heat the house. It's like getting a small portion of
your heat from electricity, so unlike the open door approach, where
you are losing heat, you are GAINING heat with a dehumidifier.