Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I forget
to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in the
dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming over that
don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so... was thinking
pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that
I can buy that would match my existing switches? I don't think I've ever
seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply,
would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end of
the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want a
surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount box
in old work siding and making it right? this is the old shingle-type
siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel



Center off type switches are expensive . A typical motion detector has a
photocell built into it, so there really shouldn't be a need to over
complicate the wiring. If your light is in the porch ceiling, just cut in a
switch box near the light, in the ceiling, and run a three wire cable from
the light box to the switch box. Use a box cover with a half inch threaded
hole, and install the motion detector in it. Just wire it so the hot from
the wall switch goes to the black of the motion detector, the red from the
detector goes back to the fixture, and the neutrals get tied together.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I forget
to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in the
dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming over that
don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so... was thinking
pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that
I can buy that would match my existing switches? I don't think I've ever
seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply,
would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end of
the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want a
surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount box
in old work siding and making it right? this is the old shingle-type
siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Some (maybe most) simple motion sensor lights are made so that if you want
them to come on and stay on you can. Forgot how it is done, but something
like turning the switch on and off and back on within a second or so.

RBM wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I forget
to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in the
dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming over that
don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so... was thinking
pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that
I can buy that would match my existing switches? I don't think I've ever
seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply,
would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end of
the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want a
surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount box
in old work siding and making it right? this is the old shingle-type
siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel



Center off type switches are expensive .

figures. I suppose I could just use a 3-way, would do the same thing
but without the center off

A typical motion detector has a
photocell built into it, so there really shouldn't be a need to over
complicate the wiring.

OK, I'll have to pay attention next time I am at the store

If your light is in the porch ceiling, just cut in a
switch box near the light, in the ceiling, and run a three wire cable from
the light box to the switch box. Use a box cover with a half inch threaded
hole, and install the motion detector in it. Just wire it so the hot from
the wall switch goes to the black of the motion detector, the red from the
detector goes back to the fixture, and the neutrals get tied together.

I see what you're saying, but then wouldn't the MD be pointing down at
the porch rather than out at the walkway leading up to it, and then also
wouldn't it be always shaded so the light sensor would be useless? or
can they be adjusted so that normal daytime ambient light would still
hold it off?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel



Center off type switches are expensive .

figures. I suppose I could just use a 3-way, would do the same thing but
without the center off

A typical motion detector has a
photocell built into it, so there really shouldn't be a need to over
complicate the wiring.

OK, I'll have to pay attention next time I am at the store

If your light is in the porch ceiling, just cut in a switch box near the
light, in the ceiling, and run a three wire cable from the light box to
the switch box. Use a box cover with a half inch threaded hole, and
install the motion detector in it. Just wire it so the hot from the wall
switch goes to the black of the motion detector, the red from the
detector goes back to the fixture, and the neutrals get tied together.

I see what you're saying, but then wouldn't the MD be pointing down at the
porch rather than out at the walkway leading up to it, and then also
wouldn't it be always shaded so the light sensor would be useless? or can
they be adjusted so that normal daytime ambient light would still hold it
off?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


Many motion detectors have adjustments for daylight sensitivity. Many "see"
beyond 180 degrees, so you should be able to position it to "see" whatever
area you want

Nate Nagel wrote:
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after
dark it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or
I forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the
keyhole in the dark. But there's times when you may want it on
(friends coming over that don't know which house is yours) or off
(maintenance) so... was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is
there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that I can buy that would match
my existing switches? I don't think I've ever seen one in my local
Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply, would they have
them?
Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't
want a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush
mount box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos


You can get a photocell - by itself - that you can mount anywhere and it can
intercept the hot line to the light. Then you can put a CFL in the socket
and forget about it.

A 12-watt CFL will use 0.14KWH of power per night, 4.3KWH per month, or, at
15¢/KWH about 60¢.

You can add a switch to the circuit and leave the light off when not
expecting guests, saving, oh, 60¢ per month.

HeyBub wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after
dark it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or
I forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the
keyhole in the dark. But there's times when you may want it on
(friends coming over that don't know which house is yours) or off
(maintenance) so... was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is
there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that I can buy that would match
my existing switches? I don't think I've ever seen one in my local
Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply, would they have
them?
Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't
want a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush
mount box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos


You can get a photocell - by itself - that you can mount anywhere and it can
intercept the hot line to the light. Then you can put a CFL in the socket
and forget about it.

A 12-watt CFL will use 0.14KWH of power per night, 4.3KWH per month, or, at
15¢/KWH about 60¢.

You can add a switch to the circuit and leave the light off when not
expecting guests, saving, oh, 60¢ per month.



It's not just the energy I object to, it's the light itself being on.
So many people have outdoor lights on all night that I haven't seen
stars since the last time I visited my parents.

My neighbors are good people, but they have a pair of floodlights
mounted just under the roof of their house that shine on our shared
driveway. I am quite tempted to offer to fit a motion detector to that
one for them because the light from them also does a splendid job of
lighting up my bedroom unless I close the blinds all the way (which I
don't like to do; sunlight helps me wake up in the morning.) The only
reason I haven't is because to do so I'd need to borrow a 24' or 28'
ladder, and then actually get on the damned thing, something of which
I'm not a big fan.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Jan 9, 9:35*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. *That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. *But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? *I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. *Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. *Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? *this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

The simplest way is a x10 RF battery operated motion sensor you mount
anywhere and a x10 wall switch to replace the light switch.

On Jan 9, 10:35*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. *That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. *But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? *I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. *Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. *Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? *this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I think most motion detector lights have the feature you want built
into them already. I know mine does but I dont use it much. Its
either off or on sensor. If I turn it off then back on within a second
or so it will disable the sensor and just stay on all the time.


Jimmie

On Jan 9, 2:40*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:35*am, Nate Nagel wrote:





Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. *That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. *But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? *I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. *Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. *Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? *this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I think most motion detector lights have the feature you want built
into them already. I know mine does but I dont *use it much. Its
either off or on sensor. If I turn it off then back on within a second
or so it will disable the sensor and just stay on all the time.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you turn off the detector for at least 20 aseconds and then turn it
back on, it will be in the normal mode. If you turn it off and then
back on within a couple of seconds, the light will be 100% on. Most
detectors have some sort of flexible mount for the detector. Compact
fluorescent lamps may or may not work. IF the detector operates a
relay, which you can hear click, then a CFL will work. If the lamp is
lit directly by a transistor circuit, the CFL will burn out frequently.

hr(bob) wrote:
On Jan 9, 2:40 pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:35 am, Nate Nagel wrote:





Have an idea...
porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?
Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel
I think most motion detector lights have the feature you want built
into them already. I know mine does but I dont use it much. Its
either off or on sensor. If I turn it off then back on within a second
or so it will disable the sensor and just stay on all the time.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you turn off the detector for at least 20 aseconds and then turn it
back on, it will be in the normal mode. If you turn it off and then
back on within a couple of seconds, the light will be 100% on. Most
detectors have some sort of flexible mount for the detector. Compact
fluorescent lamps may or may not work. IF the detector operates a
relay, which you can hear click, then a CFL will work. If the lamp is
lit directly by a transistor circuit, the CFL will burn out frequently.

Hmm... I didn't even think of that.

I am limited to using a light sensor mounted remotely from my light
because of the way my porch and front door are arranged - my screen door
barely clears the light as it is, and I believe I mentioned a while back
about "restoring" the original light fixture because I couldn't find a
new one that was low profile enough to clear the screen door.

So... any recommendations that will work nice with a CFL? I do
currently have a CFL in there and have not noticed any ill effects, even
in the current weather (19 degrees as I type this.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Have an idea...

porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I forget
to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in the
dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming over that
don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so... was thinking
pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off toggle switch that
I can buy that would match my existing switches? I don't think I've ever
seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the real electrical supply,
would they have them?

Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end of
the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want a
surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount box
in old work siding and making it right? this is the old shingle-type
siding, very thin, probably asbestos

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Some (maybe most) simple motion sensor lights are made so that if you want
them to come on and stay on you can. Forgot how it is done, but something
like turning the switch on and off and back on within a second or so.

Yes! Exactly! I forgot about that. Good thinking.

Nate Nagel wrote:

It's not just the energy I object to, it's the light itself being on. So
many people have outdoor lights on all night that I haven't seen stars
since the last time I visited my parents.

I'm with you on the subject of light pollution. What gets me is people
who move out to the country, then they put up a f*cking street lamp!
Move to the F*cking city if you want street lights! Or at least use the
ones with shades so the light only shines down on their lot, not out for
everyone to see.

I'm on a little mountain and it's not too bad yet with a few acres of
trees around most of my house, much better in the summer! I can see the
stars very well. However I almost died when my mom mentioned how the
lights on a distant mountain looked so pretty. All the new lights I put
up have shades so the light only faces down and outward only about 45
degrees. You can only see the ground and the sides of the house and
garage lit up, you can't see the light directly from the fixture.

http://www.darksky.org/

hr(bob) wrote:
On Jan 9, 2:40 pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:35 am, Nate Nagel wrote:





Have an idea...
porch light, was thinking it'd be nice to hook it up through a motion
sensor and light sensor so it'd only be on when a) it's dark and b) I
actually need the light. That way if I know I'm coming home after dark
it's not lit for four hours or whatever when I don't need it, or I
forget to turn it on and I have to fumble around and find the keyhole in
the dark. But there's times when you may want it on (friends coming
over that don't know which house is yours) or off (maintenance) so...
was thinking pull to the light with 14/3, is there a SPDT center-off
toggle switch that I can buy that would match my existing switches? I
don't think I've ever seen one in my local Big Box, but if I went to the
real electrical supply, would they have them?
Also, am wondering how I would mount said motion/light sensors. Porch
light is on the underside of porch roof. Maybe another box at the end
of the porch (it is a regular roof, not a flat roof) but I wouldn't want
a surface mount box there, what's the drill for mounting a flush mount
box in old work siding and making it right? this is the old
shingle-type siding, very thin, probably asbestos
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel
I think most motion detector lights have the feature you want built
into them already. I know mine does but I dont use it much. Its
either off or on sensor. If I turn it off then back on within a second
or so it will disable the sensor and just stay on all the time.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you turn off the detector for at least 20 aseconds and then turn it
back on, it will be in the normal mode. If you turn it off and then
back on within a couple of seconds, the light will be 100% on. Most
detectors have some sort of flexible mount for the detector. Compact
fluorescent lamps may or may not work. IF the detector operates a
relay, which you can hear click, then a CFL will work. If the lamp is
lit directly by a transistor circuit, the CFL will burn out frequently.

It's actually a "triac" not a "transistor" used for switching the power.
The only lighting I've seen used a transistor was an emergency light at
an electrical supplier that I worked for 36 years ago. It was used to
switch 6volts DC.

TDD

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:54:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

It's not just the energy I object to, it's the light itself being on.
So many people have outdoor lights on all night that I haven't seen
stars since the last time I visited my parents.

Just before Christmas I visited some people in central Texas (about
100 miles west of Waco). They're way out in the country and it was
unbelievable how many stars I could see from their back porch.

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:54:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

It's not just the energy I object to, it's the light itself being on.
So many people have outdoor lights on all night that I haven't seen
stars since the last time I visited my parents.

Just before Christmas I visited some people in central Texas (about
100 miles west of Waco). They're way out in the country and it was
unbelievable how many stars I could see from their back porch.

[snip]

http://www.darksky.org/

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sun 10 Jan 2010 08:56:16p, Mark Lloyd told us...

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:54:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

It's not just the energy I object to, it's the light itself being on.
So many people have outdoor lights on all night that I haven't seen
stars since the last time I visited my parents.
Just before Christmas I visited some people in central Texas (about
100 miles west of Waco). They're way out in the country and it was
unbelievable how many stars I could see from their back porch.

[snip]

When we first moved to Arizona, we lived in a small desert community far
from the city. Street lights weren't permitted and few residents kept
outdoor lights on through the night. The nearest ocmmercial area was 20
miles away, so no store lights either. The night sky was incredible.

Ten yeas later we no longer live there, but the area now has 12-15 thousand
new homes. There are still no street lights, but more people keep their
outdoor lights on and there are numerous shops and stores with their
commercial lighting. The night sky is no longer incredible. :-(

http://www.darksky.org/