Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. But it was a little frightening.

Mike

On Dec 14, 1:34*pm, Mike wrote:
Hi there, folks. *I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. *I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. *I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and *then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. *There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. *One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. *The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. *I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. *I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. *All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. *Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. *A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. *I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. *I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. *At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. *Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. *Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. *About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. *I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. *I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. *But it was a little frightening.

Mike

These sort of posts (the black wire goes here and the red wire goes
there ................. ) sort of thing; are real scary.
Someone with little/no understanding of electrcity should NOT BE at
wiring!

There also seems to be lack of basic understanding that a wire carries
electrcity into some sort of basic device, a switch or dimmer or timer
etc. and that it comes out the other side ether on, or off, or modifed
(dimmed down! And that's how the new or replacement device should be
reconnected.

One problem is that once a light/circuit or whatever may 'appear' to
work OK!

BUT there may be a potential problem due to the workmanship that may
show up later! Glad the writer found that disconnected ground wire eh!

We've had lots of postings here where someone will write, similar to
above, that they have rewired the lights in the hallway and now, when
they throw the switch, the dining room lights also come on, but very
dim! Etc. etc. etc. Bah, blah ............ !

And trying to explain to an amateur electrician how to hook up what
are commonly called "Three way light switches" (e.g. one switch a
bottom of stairs and other at top; because there are at least three,
or more, ways for these to be wired) is painful!

Worrisome!

Interesting too that the writer mentions that the light and the
microwave and the gas stove (igniter/light etc.?) are on the same
circuit breaker!

One wonders if that is to code in that area and just what is the total
wattage on that circuit? A microwave can consume 1200 watts, that's 10
to 12 amps of what is presumably a 15 amp l(#14 AWG?) lighting
circuit? Leaving only a couple of amps (ignoring the 80% rule) for all
other items on that circuit; when the microwave is operating!

On Dec 14, 11:34*am, Mike wrote:
Hi there, folks. *I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. *I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. *I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and *then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. *There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. *One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. *The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. *I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. *I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. *All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. *Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. *A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. *I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. *I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. *At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. *Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. *Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. *About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. *I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. *I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. *But it was a little frightening.

Mike

My guess would be that the black wire which connects to the red is the
hot line to the light. Red is frequently used for the hot line which
can be switched off, in my limited experience. The other black wire
from the switch connects to two other black wires; again just a guess,
but one of those is probably the hot line from the breaker box and the
other is a tap off to the stove and microwave, as you had guessed.
You'd have to test which lines are hot when the switch is on or off to
make sure. It does seem like a strange set-up.

Paul

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. But it was a little frightening.

Mike


Nothing strange here, except you shouldn't have more than one wire wrapped
around a screw. The two black wires should be pigtailed together with
another wire, which goes to the screw. The red wire is the load to the
light. The reason you didn't get a shock is because you never got between
the hot wire and the ground. Can say the same thing for your screw driver,
which obviously did get a shock

On Dec 14, 10:34*am, Mike wrote:
snip

*Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Absolutely forbidden. For shame!

snip

Joe

On Dec 14, 11:34*am, Mike wrote:
Hi there, folks. *I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. *I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. *I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and *then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. *There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. *One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. *The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. *I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. *I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. *All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. *Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

No. You should get a short length of black wire, and connect that to
the screw on the light switch, then wire nut them together.


Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. *A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. *I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. *

Does your new switch have plaster ears? If no, get another switch.
If yes, but the wall is messed up around the switch, either patch the
wall, or get one of these "device levelers"

http://www.dale-electric.com/detail?itemnumber=OR

nate

On Dec 14, 1:15*pm, Pavel314 wrote:

My guess would be that the black wire which connects to the red is the
hot line to the light. Red is frequently used for the hot line which
can be switched off, in my limited experience. The other black wire
from the switch connects to two other black wires; again just a guess,
but one of those is probably the hot line from the breaker box and the
other is a tap off to the stove and microwave, as you had guessed.
You'd have to test which lines are hot when the switch is on or off to
make sure. It does seem like a strange set-up.

Sounds normal to me... black = hot, one of them will be hot when
disconnected and the other is an unswitched hot to somewhere else.
The red will be the switched hot to the light fixture.

nate

Mike wrote:
Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. But it was a little frightening.

Mike

I be scared O 'letwisity.

TDD

On Dec 14, 2:12*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...





Hi there, folks. *I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. *I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. *I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and *then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. *There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. *One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. *The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. *I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. *I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. *All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. *Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. *A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. *I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. *I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. *At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. *Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. *Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. *About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. *I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. *I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. *But it was a little frightening.

Mike

Nothing strange here, except you shouldn't have more than one wire wrapped
around a screw.

I'd say the power to the WHOLE house going off 20 minutes after he
caused the arc with the screwdriver is strange. He also says
everything still worked immediately after the arc. Normally, either
everything would continue to work or the breaker for the one circuit
would trip.





The two black wires should be pigtailed together with
another wire, which goes to the screw. The red wire is the load to the
light. The reason you didn't get a shock is because you never got between
the hot wire and the ground. Can say the same thing for your screw driver,
which obviously did get a shock- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 2:12 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...





Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. But it was a little frightening.

Mike

Nothing strange here, except you shouldn't have more than one wire wrapped
around a screw.

I'd say the power to the WHOLE house going off 20 minutes after he
caused the arc with the screwdriver is strange. He also says
everything still worked immediately after the arc. Normally, either
everything would continue to work or the breaker for the one circuit
would trip.





The two black wires should be pigtailed together with
another wire, which goes to the screw. The red wire is the load to the
light. The reason you didn't get a shock is because you never got between
the hot wire and the ground. Can say the same thing for your screw driver,
which obviously did get a shock- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good point, I missed that part. OP didn't say what he was screwing with 20
minutes after he blew out the switch

On Dec 14, 7:35*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 14, 2:12 pm, "RBM" wrote:



"Mike" wrote in message

....

Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. But it was a little frightening.

Mike

Nothing strange here, except you shouldn't have more than one wire wrapped
around a screw.

I'd say the power to the WHOLE house going off 20 minutes after he
caused the arc with the screwdriver is strange. * He also says
everything still worked immediately after the arc. * Normally, either
everything would continue to work or the breaker for the one circuit
would trip.

The two black wires should be pigtailed together with
another wire, which goes to the screw. The red wire is the load to the
light. The reason you didn't get a shock is because you never got between
the hot wire and the ground. Can say the same thing for your screw driver,
which obviously did get a shock- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good point, I missed that part. OP didn't say what he was screwing with 20
minutes after he blew out the switch

When the power went out 20 minutes later, I was about to walk out the
door with the family. Doing nothing related to the botched light
switch operation at all. Bizarre. Anyhow, I'm about to do the
"pigtail" thing. That's precisely the answer I was looking for.
Thanks to you and everyone for the replies.

Mike

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:28:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 14, 2:12*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...





Hi there, folks. *I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. *I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. *I turned off the breaker (which controlled the light
switch and the gas stove and microwave which are on the other side of
the wall from the light switch I'm working on) and *then removed the
light switch cover and unscrewed the simmer switch. *There are 3 wires
coming out of the dimmer switch, 2 blacks and one uncovered (ground)
wire. *One of the black wires coming out of the dimmer was connected
to 2 black wires. *The other black wire coming out of the dimmer was
connected to a red wire and the ground to the ground. *I was puzzled
about what to do with that extra black wire in the junction box. *I
assumed it was the power going to the stove/microwave, so on the new
light switch, I connected both black wires to the black screw, then
attached the red wire to the gold screw on the new switch and
connected the ground to the green screen. *All worked fine, though I
was confused for a bit about what to do with the extra black wire. *Is
it a best practice to hook both black wires to the same screw on the
light switch?

Oh, one last chapter which was a bit scary. *A little later I returned
to the newly installed light switch to apply the switch cover. *I put
it on and noticed the switch was screwed on a bit too far which made
it not fit well into the cover. *I took the cover back off and
unscrewed the screws holding the switch a couple turns. *At some
point, my screw driver slipped off the screw and went into the
junction box and I got a spark and a pop. *Scary indeed, but I didn't
feel any shock at all. *Everything still worked, so I finished putting
the cover on. *About 20 minutes later, the power to the house went
off. *I went downstairs and switched off the breaker for the light
switch and turned the rest of the house back on. *I took apart the
switch again and realized that when I caused the pop that the ground
wire had broken/snapped and the gold-colored screwed looked like it
had been burned (had a little black on it). I re-attached everything
and it works fine now. *But it was a little frightening.

Mike

Nothing strange here, except you shouldn't have more than one wire wrapped
around a screw.

I'd say the power to the WHOLE house going off 20 minutes after he
caused the arc with the screwdriver is strange. He also says
everything still worked immediately after the arc. Normally, either
everything would continue to work or the breaker for the one circuit
would trip.

Very good point.

If you do something that causes the main to trip, usually you are not
having a good day.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:00:09 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:28:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 14, 2:12*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message


Very good point.

If you do something that causes the main to trip, usually you are not
having a good day.

I was working at a nursing home once for a company I worked for over
10 years. The electrical closet was a very small room in/at the
kitchen. It had a door out into the hall and another one that opened
into the kitchen. The kitchen door was right beside the electrical
closet.

I was putting in a breaker. The breaker hold down bolt was a hex
head, and I didn't have a nut driver that would fit it. I took my
needle nosed pliers and was trying to start bolt with them. My hand
twitched and the pliers when phase to phase. (Probably not a good
idea now that I think back on it)

The sprinkler guy said he could see light coming out of both doors. It
didn't trip the main. It kicked the riser main killing power to
lights on several floors (Including the closet I was working in). I
thought I was blind. It burned the busses badly enough to have to
replace the guts. I had to get some more needle nosed pliers too.

Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:00:09 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:28:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 14, 2:12 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message


Very good point.

If you do something that causes the main to trip, usually you are not
having a good day.

I was working at a nursing home once for a company I worked for over
10 years. The electrical closet was a very small room in/at the
kitchen. It had a door out into the hall and another one that opened
into the kitchen. The kitchen door was right beside the electrical
closet.

I was putting in a breaker. The breaker hold down bolt was a hex
head, and I didn't have a nut driver that would fit it. I took my
needle nosed pliers and was trying to start bolt with them. My hand
twitched and the pliers when phase to phase. (Probably not a good
idea now that I think back on it)

The sprinkler guy said he could see light coming out of both doors. It
didn't trip the main. It kicked the riser main killing power to
lights on several floors (Including the closet I was working in). I
thought I was blind. It burned the busses badly enough to have to
replace the guts. I had to get some more needle nosed pliers too.


Experience means you burned up thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
When someone asks me for a job, I tell them I need someone with
experience. Someone who has already burned up thousands of dollars worth
of equipment someplace else and is finished with that part of their
education. *snicker*

TDD

"Mike" wrote in message
Hi there, folks. I'm not electrician, but I've changed out a fair
number of light switches and outlets in my house. I decided this past
weekend to swap out the dimmer switch in my dining room with a regular
light switch. ...


Get a book on electrical wiring and read it cover to cover before trying to
do any wiring! (Learn first before doing something...)

In article
,
terry wrote:

These sort of posts (the black wire goes here and the red wire goes
there ................. ) sort of thing; are real scary.
Someone with little/no understanding of electrcity should NOT BE at
wiring!

Well, you have to start somewhere. But in general I agree with you. The
really annoying thing is the ones who go out and buy a VOM for $5.99 and
believe *that* qualifies them to do their own wiring. Then they come
here and ask how to use it. I always say the same thing: Spend an hour
learning circuit fundamentals and you'll understand the meter.

OTOH I honestly do not care if someone gets shocked, or burns down their
house, due to ignorance. It's supposed to be a free country, and that
includes the freedom to suffer the consequences of ill-chosen actions.

On Dec 15, 6:18*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*terry wrote:
These sort of posts (the black wire goes here and the red wire goes
there ................. ) sort of thing; are real scary.
Someone with little/no understanding of electrcity should NOT BE at
wiring!

Well, you have to start somewhere. But in general I agree with you. The
really annoying thing is the ones who go out and buy a VOM for $5.99 and
believe *that* qualifies them to do their own wiring. Then they come
here and ask how to use it. I always say the same thing: Spend an hour
learning circuit fundamentals and you'll understand the meter.

OTOH I honestly do not care if someone gets shocked, or burns down their
house, due to ignorance. It's supposed to be a free country, and that
includes the freedom to suffer the consequences of ill-chosen actions.

I agree but those sorts of outcomes tend to drive increased insurance
rates, taxes and the desire to pass more laws.
Better for everyone if they......

get a book, read it & follow the examples.
take a class at a CC.
hire a tech tutor.

cheers
Bob

DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 15, 6:18 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

terry wrote:
These sort of posts (the black wire goes here and the red wire goes
there ................. ) sort of thing; are real scary.
Someone with little/no understanding of electrcity should NOT BE at
wiring!
Well, you have to start somewhere. But in general I agree with you. The
really annoying thing is the ones who go out and buy a VOM for $5.99 and
believe *that* qualifies them to do their own wiring. Then they come
here and ask how to use it. I always say the same thing: Spend an hour
learning circuit fundamentals and you'll understand the meter.

OTOH I honestly do not care if someone gets shocked, or burns down their
house, due to ignorance. It's supposed to be a free country, and that
includes the freedom to suffer the consequences of ill-chosen actions.

I agree but those sorts of outcomes tend to drive increased insurance
rates, taxes and the desire to pass more laws.
Better for everyone if they......

get a book, read it & follow the examples.
take a class at a CC.
hire a tech tutor.

Well, I'm all for not interfering with Darwin, but by the time somebody
can afford to have their own wiring to work on, more often than not,
they have already started reproducing. And it ain't the kid's fault
daddy is a dumbass. So, I don't want the kid fried as collateral damage,
or to have to help support the kid for twenty years if daddy ain't
around any more.

(Apologies to any female DIYs out there who do their own wiring- I do
know you exist, but you are few and far between. And I find most females
will Read The Fine Manual.)

I have said for decades, that there should be a 'living in the real
world' course required for high school graduation. One unit of the
course would be basic household systems, and the care thereof- what is
the simple stuff you can do yourself, when you should call a pro, and
how to know when the pro is BS'ing you.

--
aem (who knows he isn't really an electrician, and looks in a book or
asks an actual expert before he tries anything new) sends...