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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power
surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
MM formulated on Sunday :
There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM Very unlikely to damage the wiring, the fires were probably the result of equipment fed with too high voltage bursting into flames. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
#3
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
In message , Harry
Bloomfield writes MM formulated on Sunday : There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM Very unlikely to damage the wiring, the fires were probably the result of equipment fed with too high voltage bursting into flames. Isn't there a CE requirement for withstanding overvoltage ? -- geoff |
#4
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message k... MM formulated on Sunday : There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM Very unlikely to damage the wiring, the fires were probably the result of equipment fed with too high voltage bursting into flames. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk In my experience in the case of a serious overvoltage wiring damage in a proportion of properties in highly likely. Regards Steve Dawson |
#5
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
Stephen Dawson has brought this to us :
In my experience in the case of a serious overvoltage wiring damage in a proportion of properties in highly likely. Modern mains wiring will normally withstand several thousands of volts, before breaking down. The only large scale breakdown of wiring insulation I have seen was due to lightning strike. I have seen lots of damage to appliances due to over voltage. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
"MM" wrote in message ... There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? If there was a fault in the the supply wiring where 2 or more phases came together, you may see 415V AC for a short time, that could cause a few problems for the end user! The quality of some electrical equipment can be a bit suspect. It has happened in the past though the leccy boards have a habit of denying liability! Des |
#7
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
MM wrote: There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Electricity meters are designed/approved to withstand a 6kV surge, so I would be amazed if any failed. Jon. |
#8
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
Tournifreak wrote:
Electricity meters are designed/approved to withstand a 6kV surge, so I would be amazed if any failed. "Surge" in this context tends to refer to transient overvoltage on a time scale of a few tens of microseconds, such as can occur when lightning strikes nearby. OTOH this thread seems to be about one of those sustained fault conditions in the supply network such as an open circuit neutral or crossed phase and neutral which results in some houses receiving close to the full 400 V line voltage of the 3-phase system for a long period. -- Andy |
#9
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Jun 29, 9:32 am, MM wrote:
Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? Fuses don't stop surges. First the surge exists everywhere in a circuit. Eventually, a fuse blows long after the surge was ongoing. Generally, blows as a result of the damage . Fuses are to protect humans from further damage such as fire. Depends how large that transient voltages is. Locally, a 33,000 volts wire fell upon a 4,000 volt distribution wire. 240 volts could have risen to 2000 volts. Probably higher since meters exploded upwards of 10 meters from their pans. Meters were scattered in pieces. Some suffered appliance damage. Others did not. GFCIs (RCDs) were also victims. Some circuit breakers tripped; others did not. No wire damage was identified. In this case, no fires were apparent. One homeowner with 'whole house' protector had no damage other than an exploded meter and damaged meter mounting pan. Of course, that 'whole house' protector protected household wiring as well as appliances. |
#10
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:32:30 UTC, MM wrote:
There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM NOw look what you've done. You've set w_tom off again. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#11
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On 1 Jul 2008 06:47:20 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:32:30 UTC, MM wrote: There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM NOw look what you've done. You've set w_tom off again. It hasn't happened here yet and probably never will, as this was doubtless a one-in-a-million event. Nevertheless, it is useful to know what the response of (a) the insurers and (b) the power company would be. For example, whether the power company might cough up for a new meter but wash its hands of any house wiring claims (or for appliances). MM |
#12
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:01:36 UTC, MM wrote:
On 1 Jul 2008 06:47:20 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote: On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:32:30 UTC, MM wrote: There are reports on the BBC of numerous house fires after a power surge on Saturday night in North Lanarkshire. "About 400 houses were affected by the surge which caused some electricity meters and fuses to blow in the Summerlee area of Coatbridge. Firefighters said they were 'inundated' with calls and attended a number of small fires on Saturday night." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7479968.stm Would the house wiring be suspect after a surge like that? Or would the main fuse blow? What about older properties with old wiring? MM NOw look what you've done. You've set w_tom off again. It hasn't happened here yet and probably never will, as this was doubtless a one-in-a-million event. Nevertheless, it is useful to know what the response of (a) the insurers and (b) the power company would be. For example, whether the power company might cough up for a new meter but wash its hands of any house wiring claims (or for appliances). True. But w_tom is in the USA, so apart from the fact that he bangs on about his hobby horses and you get no useful information, power companies may have different attitudes there! -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#13
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
I don't see it as irrelevant, here a broken 25kv overhead line could
drop onto a post-mounted 400v transformer output terminals. Probably highly unlikely, and I'm sure structures are designed to minimise that possibility. But I would be surprised if power distribution companies hadn't tested the probable consequences and figured out how they would clean up the mess. |
#14
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 02:28:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: I don't see it as irrelevant, here a broken 25kv overhead line could drop onto a post-mounted 400v transformer output terminals. Probably highly unlikely, and I'm sure structures are designed to minimise that possibility. But I would be surprised if power distribution companies hadn't tested the probable consequences and figured out how they would clean up the mess. "A Scottish Power spokesman said: 'An extremely rare underground cable fault caused the damage.' " MM |
#15
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Jul 1, 5:28 am, " wrote:
I don't see it as irrelevant, here a broken 25kv overhead line could drop onto a post-mounted 400v transformer output terminals. Probably highly unlikely, and I'm sure structures are designed to minimise that possibility. "A Scottish Power spokesman said: 'An extremely rare underground cable fault caused the damage.' " It is a rare event. However so destructive that designs must take into account this event. As another noted, meters typically contain a spark gap to limit these voltages. A 33,000v line shorted to distribution caused hundreds of meters to literally explode from the pan. Local power utility blamed this fault on lightning. As an act of god, the utility denied responsibility. Rules may be different in Scotland. Many who had appliances on plug-in protectors had damaged appliances and destroyed protectors. One who had a 'whole house' protector only had an exploded meter and would have had all internal wiring protected. Some got stuck for $thousands in damage. Others strangely had marginal damage or only tripped circuit breakers. Unknown how high the actual transient was or if any household wiring was affected. But no fires occurred during this event or after power was restored. What was voltage on that Scottish Power underground line? Numbers provide a useful upper limit. |
#16
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 14:12:21 -0700 (PDT), w_tom wrote:
On Jul 1, 5:28 am, " wrote: I don't see it as irrelevant, here a broken 25kv overhead line could drop onto a post-mounted 400v transformer output terminals. Probably highly unlikely, and I'm sure structures are designed to minimise that possibility. "A Scottish Power spokesman said: 'An extremely rare underground cable fault caused the damage.' " It is a rare event. However so destructive that designs must take into account this event. As another noted, meters typically contain a spark gap to limit these voltages. A 33,000v line shorted to distribution caused hundreds of meters to literally explode from the pan. Local power utility blamed this fault on lightning. As an act of god, the utility denied responsibility. Rules may be different in Scotland. Many who had appliances on plug-in protectors had damaged appliances and destroyed protectors. One who had a 'whole house' protector only had an exploded meter and would have had all internal wiring protected. Some got stuck for $thousands in damage. Others strangely had marginal damage or only tripped circuit breakers. Unknown how high the actual transient was or if any household wiring was affected. But no fires occurred during this event or after power was restored. What was voltage on that Scottish Power underground line? Numbers provide a useful upper limit. I can't find any further details beyond what the BBC reported. MM |
#17
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Jul 1, 4:12 pm, w_tom wrote:
Many who had appliances on plug-in protectors had damaged appliances and destroyed protectors. One who had a 'whole house' protector only had an exploded meter and would have had all internal wiring protected. . w_ must drag the thread into his “whole house protectors work and plug- in protectors don’t” crusade. In fact, while both are effective for very short duration surges, MOVs in both will rapidly be destroyed by “temporary overvoltage” (the event in this thread). A major researcher in the surge field, Francois Martzloff, has written "In fact, the major cause of TVSS [surge suppressor] failures is a temporary overvoltage, rather than an unusually large surge." The probability of a ‘whole house’ suppressor providing protection is close to zero. -- bud-- |
#18
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Jul 2, 11:03 am, bud-- wrote:
w_ must drag the thread into his “whole house protectors work and plug- in protectors don’t” crusade. ... The probability of a ‘whole house’ suppressor providing protection is close to zero. A sales promoter for plug-in protectors must turn every discussion nasty. Relevant question is how high that fault voltage would be to cause wire failure and fire. In one location, voltage so high as to blow meters off the building and still not cause fires. In another location, reason for one fire is unknown. One who had a 'whole house' protector suffered no damage (except to the meter), obviously would not suffer wiring damage, while neighbors with plug-in protectors did suffer damage – as should be expected. Bud must create a nasty flame war. Insults gets others to ignore what the OP asked. Others then will forget that Bud is not answering the OP's questions. Relevant is how high that fault voltage would be to cause a fire and why that one fire existed. Bud, a sales promoter and troll, follows me everywhere creating flame wars because this poster has factually identified the scam promoted by Bud: plug-in protectors. Bud has no interest in the topic nor providing the OP with a useful answer. Where the fault was so large as to blow meters off buildings, still no fire resulted. Unknown is how much higher that voltage could be to cause wiring failures. Those who were not using a 'whole house' protector did suffer appliance and plug-in protector damage AND would not suffer wiring damage. That is what the science says should happen.. Bud will reply with more nasty posts irrelevant to the OP's question. He is promoting plug-in protector sales. Bud will not say how high that voltage must be to blow meters off the building. When I posted this event earlier, then Bud denied it happened – post anything to argue. Will Bud also deny meters in Scotland were blown off the building? How high must that voltage be to cause wiring damage? How high was that voltage to cause meters to blow off the building? Instead, Bud wants to change the topic to posting insults - a Rush Limbaugh tactic. Insults can cause some to ignore technical facts. |
#19
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Does electricity surge damage house wiring?
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:54:05 UTC, w_tom wrote:
(more US-centric ranting) Oh, give it a rest. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
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