I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Get a bigger battery? Like for a motorcycle or self-starting mower, or even
one designed for a UPS.

sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Get a bigger battery? Like for a motorcycle or self-starting mower, or even
one designed for a UPS.

"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

On Dec 10, 3:24*pm, "charlie" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts !
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

On Dec 10, 3:24*pm, "charlie" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts !
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

"sid" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 3:24 pm, "charlie" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts !
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

-----
oops. i doubt you could get 6.6a out of a dry-cell battery for long. try a
car battery.

they also make led xmas lights that work off a small battery pack. i
recently saw a lady wearing some, that were hooked up to the ones she had on
her baby's stroller running of a small c cell battery pack.

"sid" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 3:24 pm, "charlie" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts !
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

-----
oops. i doubt you could get 6.6a out of a dry-cell battery for long. try a
car battery.

they also make led xmas lights that work off a small battery pack. i
recently saw a lady wearing some, that were hooked up to the ones she had on
her baby's stroller running of a small c cell battery pack.

"sid" wrote in message
...

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

The watts is the same for any voltage as you noted. Just add some for the
loss in the inverter. Might as well think of it as 10 amps to allow for the
loss in the inverter.

That means something the size of a lawn mower battery to run it for an hour
or so. I have a rechargable to start a 5 KW generator. It is rated 15 amp
hours. It is about 4 x 4 x6 inches. This would run your lights around an
hour and a half, maybe slightly more.

"sid" wrote in message
...

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts
P = I * E
or I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps

I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.

Its not only for a display, its a contest !

The watts is the same for any voltage as you noted. Just add some for the
loss in the inverter. Might as well think of it as 10 amps to allow for the
loss in the inverter.

That means something the size of a lawn mower battery to run it for an hour
or so. I have a rechargable to start a 5 KW generator. It is rated 15 amp
hours. It is about 4 x 4 x6 inches. This would run your lights around an
hour and a half, maybe slightly more.

On Dec 10, 4:02*pm, "Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...



80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery
Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts
P = I * E
or *I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps
I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.
Its not only for a display, its a contest !

The watts is the same for any voltage as you noted. *Just add some for the
loss in the inverter. *Might as well think of it as 10 amps to allow for the
loss in the inverter.

That means something the size of a lawn mower battery to run it for an hour
or so. * I have a rechargable to start a 5 KW generator. *It is rated 15 amp
hours. *It is about 4 x 4 x6 inches. *This would run your lights around an
hour and a half, maybe slightly more.

That is a little big. My 1st string of LEDs is rated at 18w and the
ones with color that blink are rated at 8 - 12w
I was figuring before I stated that I could get a respectable display
for under 25w and not have to invest in a marine battery ?

On Dec 10, 4:02*pm, "Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"sid" wrote in message

...



80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses
in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery
Nope !
80 watts is 80 watts
P = I * E
or *I = P / E
80watts / 120volts = 0.66 amps
80watts / 12 volts = 6.6 amps
I never figured I would ever get more than 1.5 to 2 amps from dry-cell
or alkaline batteries.
But I didn't expect it to be that poor.
Its not only for a display, its a contest !

The watts is the same for any voltage as you noted. *Just add some for the
loss in the inverter. *Might as well think of it as 10 amps to allow for the
loss in the inverter.

That means something the size of a lawn mower battery to run it for an hour
or so. * I have a rechargable to start a 5 KW generator. *It is rated 15 amp
hours. *It is about 4 x 4 x6 inches. *This would run your lights around an
hour and a half, maybe slightly more.

That is a little big. My 1st string of LEDs is rated at 18w and the
ones with color that blink are rated at 8 - 12w
I was figuring before I stated that I could get a respectable display
for under 25w and not have to invest in a marine battery ?

Uhm. You might have some numbers mistaken. 80 watts at 120
volts is also 80 watts at 12 volts. It's the amps that
change.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"charlie" wrote in message
...


80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add
in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Uhm. You might have some numbers mistaken. 80 watts at 120
volts is also 80 watts at 12 volts. It's the amps that
change.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"charlie" wrote in message
...


80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add
in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

A computer UPS battery could be 12 or 6 volts. What I'd
reccomend is a battery jumper pack from Napa, or reputable
auto parts company. That contains a small lead acid battery.
Typically with a wall wart for recharging. Or, you can
charge with a double ended lighter plug cord. After the
display, you put the jumer pack in the car (read the
instructions) and you are everyone's buddy when they have a
dead battery.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon"
with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light
strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter
and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found
has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I
connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and
lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery
dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal
resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill
batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

A computer UPS battery could be 12 or 6 volts. What I'd
reccomend is a battery jumper pack from Napa, or reputable
auto parts company. That contains a small lead acid battery.
Typically with a wall wart for recharging. Or, you can
charge with a double ended lighter plug cord. After the
display, you put the jumer pack in the car (read the
instructions) and you are everyone's buddy when they have a
dead battery.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon"
with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light
strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter
and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found
has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I
connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and
lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery
dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal
resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill
batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

If you don't want to invest in a jump pack. Buy two
Energizer brand alkaline lantern batteries (6 volts each).
Alkalines supply a LOT more power than heavy duty cells. My
ceiling light in the van will barely glow on HD cells, but
runs fine on alkalines. Actually, at the moment I run it off
a battery booster pack. Practicing what I preach.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"sid" wrote in message
...

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and
lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery
dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal
resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ?

If you don't want to invest in a jump pack. Buy two
Energizer brand alkaline lantern batteries (6 volts each).
Alkalines supply a LOT more power than heavy duty cells. My
ceiling light in the van will barely glow on HD cells, but
runs fine on alkalines. Actually, at the moment I run it off
a battery booster pack. Practicing what I preach.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"sid" wrote in message
...

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and
lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery
dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal
resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ?

snip

oops. i doubt you could get 6.6a out of a dry-cell battery for long. try a
car battery.

they also make led xmas lights that work off a small battery pack. i
recently saw a lady wearing some, that were hooked up to the ones she had
on her baby's stroller running of a small c cell battery pack.

That would be the best solution... There are portable strings of lights that
use AA cells for decorating wreaths and such. Should be much easier to work
with.

snip

oops. i doubt you could get 6.6a out of a dry-cell battery for long. try a
car battery.

they also make led xmas lights that work off a small battery pack. i
recently saw a lady wearing some, that were hooked up to the ones she had
on her baby's stroller running of a small c cell battery pack.

That would be the best solution... There are portable strings of lights that
use AA cells for decorating wreaths and such. Should be much easier to work
with.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:21:06 -0800 (PST), sid
wrote:

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?
The liitle crap is 12 volts - the bigger stuff 24 and up. Most use
multiple 12 volt batteries. 12v8Ah batteries are common and can be
easily recharged. 12V 5aH batteries are also readilly available.
Often the cheapest way is to by a 12 volt "booster pack" when on sale
at WallMart or wherever. Usually 18 Ah or better, often available for
$49 or less. Come with 110 volt charger and a cord to charge them in
the car from the "convenience outlet" (aka Cig lighter)

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:21:06 -0800 (PST), sid
wrote:

I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?
The liitle crap is 12 volts - the bigger stuff 24 and up. Most use
multiple 12 volt batteries. 12v8Ah batteries are common and can be
easily recharged. 12V 5aH batteries are also readilly available.
Often the cheapest way is to by a 12 volt "booster pack" when on sale
at WallMart or wherever. Usually 18 Ah or better, often available for
$49 or less. Come with 110 volt charger and a cord to charge them in
the car from the "convenience outlet" (aka Cig lighter)

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:


"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:


"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:


"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

On Dec 10, 7:11*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"

wrote:

"sid" wrote in message
....
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

*No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

This is the results of my initial test using two Energizer 6v Alkaline
Lantern batteries in series.
Here is what I measured:
voltage not connected = 12.5v
voltage connected = 11.4v
current connected = 1.3 amps
So: R = E/I
(12.5 - 11.4)v / 1.3a = .85 ohms of internal resistance.
I need a source with a much lower resistance or more batteries in
parallel.

I found an old "APC Smart UPS 650", Specs show it should have a 12v
650va battery.
Tomorrow I will post what happened.

On Dec 10, 7:11*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"

wrote:

"sid" wrote in message
....
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

*No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

This is the results of my initial test using two Energizer 6v Alkaline
Lantern batteries in series.
Here is what I measured:
voltage not connected = 12.5v
voltage connected = 11.4v
current connected = 1.3 amps
So: R = E/I
(12.5 - 11.4)v / 1.3a = .85 ohms of internal resistance.
I need a source with a much lower resistance or more batteries in
parallel.

I found an old "APC Smart UPS 650", Specs show it should have a 12v
650va battery.
Tomorrow I will post what happened.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:53:50 -0800 (PST), sid
wrote:

On Dec 10, 7:11Â*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:24:50 -0700, "charlie"

wrote:

"sid" wrote in message
...
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. Â*I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. Â*The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. Â*So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 960 watts at 12v. add in the losses in
the inverter, and you're gonna need a large battery

Â*No, 80 watts at 120 volts is the same as 80 watts at 12 volts, give
ot take the percentage of inefficiency.
80 watts at 120 volts is .67 amps. At 12 volts it is 6.7 amps, give or
take according to efficiency. The lanmtern batteries are generally
good for about 10 watts at 6 volts - or 20 watts at 12, more or less.
Generally Alkaline batteries are good for about 2.5 to 2.9 amps
MAXIMUM draw. The old Manganese Dioxide carbon-zinc batteries put out
a bit more, but for significantly shorter time.

This is the results of my initial test using two Energizer 6v Alkaline
Lantern batteries in series.
Here is what I measured:
voltage not connected = 12.5v
voltage connected = 11.4v
current connected = 1.3 amps
So: R = E/I
(12.5 - 11.4)v / 1.3a = .85 ohms of internal resistance.
I need a source with a much lower resistance or more batteries in
parallel.

I found an old "APC Smart UPS 650", Specs show it should have a 12v
650va battery.
Tomorrow I will post what happened.




The SmartUps 650 I have sitting here takes 2 6 volt batteries of I
believe 12 AH. They are no longer here - scrapped them but have not
replaced them yet. The SmartUps 1000 is a 24 volt unit.

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on Long
Island in the 60's & 70's. Funny Cars, The Green Monster, Big Daddy Don
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.


Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

On Dec 11, 9:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:



On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on Long
Island in the 60's & 70's. *Funny Cars, The Green Monster, Big Daddy Don
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.



Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

Do you mean on Sunday Sunday Sunday at National Speedway?

I grew up in Queens during the 60's & 70's.

Well, "grew up" would be stretching things a bit.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Dec 11, 9:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:



On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings
and battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter
and not cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found
has 80 lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test
I connect
ed
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter (rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red
and lamp glowed at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the
battery dropped from 12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less
internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries
ar
e
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on
Long Island in the 60's & 70's. *Funny Cars, The Green Monster, Big
Daddy Do
n
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.



Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

Do you mean on Sunday Sunday Sunday at National Speedway?

I would tell them "Cousin Brucie sent me" but still had to pay to get in.


I grew up in Queens during the 60's & 70's.

Well, "grew up" would be stretching things a bit.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 10, 3:21 pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

I had one of those trucks but it only had a slant six engine, darn.

TDD

On Dec 12, 12:15*am, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote :



On Dec 11, 9:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings
and battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter
and not cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found
has 80 lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test
I connect
ed
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter (rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red
and lamp glowed at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the
battery dropped from 12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less
internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries
ar
e
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on
Long Island in the 60's & 70's. *Funny Cars, The Green Monster, Big
Daddy Do
n
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

Do you mean on Sunday Sunday Sunday at National Speedway?

I would tell them "Cousin Brucie sent me" but still had to pay to get in.



I grew up in Queens during the 60's & 70's.

Well, "grew up" would be stretching things a bit.

"Cousin Brucie"

For me it was the section that starts with "Where Rock Lives" found
he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWFS

I rarely quote Wikipedia, but they do a pretty good job of describing
the influence that WNEW had on rock music and the radio industry
during those years.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Dec 12, 12:15*am, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote
innews:613e4cab-438b-4e99-8f8a-10
:



On Dec 11, 9:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light
strings and battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an
Inverter and not cut up any light strings. *The LED light set
that I found has 80 lights and the specs state it uses 12
watts. *So as a test I connect
ed
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter (rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt
bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red
and lamp glowed at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the
battery dropped from 12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less
internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill
batteries ar
e
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on
Long Island in the 60's & 70's. *Funny Cars, The Green Monster,
Big Daddy Do
n
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

Do you mean on Sunday Sunday Sunday at National Speedway?

I would tell them "Cousin Brucie sent me" but still had to pay to get
in.



I grew up in Queens during the 60's & 70's.

Well, "grew up" would be stretching things a bit.

"Cousin Brucie"

For me it was the section that starts with "Where Rock Lives" found
he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWFS

I rarely quote Wikipedia, but they do a pretty good job of describing
the influence that WNEW had on rock music and the radio industry
during those years.



Yea well I had to get an FM radio first! Once that happened, it was
rarely tuned to anything but WNEW. Would sultry be a good description of
Alison Steele's voice? :-)

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. *The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. *So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Ever think about buying a power inverter that converts 12V to 110V.
Then just use a regular string of lights. Thats what I do.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 10, 3:21 pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light strings and
battery combinations. I finally decided to use an Inverter and not
cut up any light strings. The LED light set that I found has 80
lights and the specs state it uses 12 watts. So as a test I connected
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the inverter
(rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I connected
the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red and lamp glowed
at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the battery dropped from
12.6 to 11.5v. I need a battery with less internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? Most NiCad drill batteries are
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

I had one of those trucks but it only had a slant six engine, darn.

TDD

I thought they all had 360's?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:35:14 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Dec 12, 12:15*am, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote
innews:613e4cab-438b-4e99-8f8a-10
:



On Dec 11, 9:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
news:eacadd8d-ce48-4139-8ec7-
:

On Dec 10, 3:21*pm, sid wrote:
I have a project to decorate the family "Little Red Wagon" with
Christmas lights. So I stated experimenting with LED light
strings and battery combinations. *I finally decided to use an
Inverter and not cut up any light strings. *The LED light set
that I found has 80 lights and the specs state it uses 12
watts. *So as a test I connect
ed
two 6v lantern batteries in series and ran the leads to the
inverter (rated at 100watts), connected a lamp with 40 watt
bulb.

The inverted started up and seemed to be working, but when I
connected the lamp, the green led on the inverter turned to red
and lamp glowed at 60% of what it should. The voltage from the
battery dropped from 12.6 to 11.5v. *I need a battery with less
internal resistance.

What would make a better 12v source ? *Most NiCad drill
batteries ar
e
up around 18v+
What is the voltage of battery in APC backups ?

Your family has one of these?

http://www.moparstyle.com/wiki/image...RedWagon2a.jpg

Holy crap! That one always filled the park at National Speedway on
Long Island in the 60's & 70's. *Funny Cars, The Green Monster,
Big Daddy Do
n
Garlits, talk about popping memory bubbles.

Just run the inverter off of the truck's battery.

Do you mean on Sunday Sunday Sunday at National Speedway?

I would tell them "Cousin Brucie sent me" but still had to pay to get
in.



I grew up in Queens during the 60's & 70's.

Well, "grew up" would be stretching things a bit.

"Cousin Brucie"

For me it was the section that starts with "Where Rock Lives" found
he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWFS

I rarely quote Wikipedia, but they do a pretty good job of describing
the influence that WNEW had on rock music and the radio industry
during those years.



Yea well I had to get an FM radio first! Once that happened, it was
rarely tuned to anything but WNEW. Would sultry be a good description of
Alison Steele's voice? :-)

Yes, but she didn't look much like her voice.