In article , (Lp1331 1p1331) wrote:
This question had been discussed in here several times before, but I'm
not really sure of the result--is it ok to use romex inside pvc conduit?

Any place that it's legal to install romex, it's legal to install romex in PVC
conduit.

Of course the OP didn't specify the distance in the crawl space ---5' or
50'-- but if pvc w/ romex is permissable, it would seem to me to be the
best,easiest and probably cheapest way to go. Last 3/4 pvc conduit I
bought at Depot, a month or so ago, was $1.05 for 10'. 1/2" was 80
something cents,

PVC electrical conduit, that cheap?? Are you sure you weren't looking at PVC
water pipe?

but 1/2" may be a little small to try and get #10 romex
through. An 8' 1x2 would cost more than even the 3/4' conduit, and with
conduit ,no need to "build' anything-- just strap the conduit every few
feet and you are done. Just wondering-- Larry

Doug--regarding PVC conduit prices-- that's what I paid for 3/4"at a
Home Depot here in San Antonio a little over a month ago. This is the
grey conduit from the electrical department. I don't remember the brand,
or if it had the one end swaged out so you didn't need a coupling or
not. That's what I couldn't understand-- it was about half the cost of
PVC water pipe. In fact, about six months ago, I needed some 1/2"PVC for
a drain for a small mini split a/c that I may install in the future in a
house I am working on. The walls and ceiling are open (the room that
will/might have the a/c is upstairs) so I am installing the copper,
wiring and drain now, regardless of whether I install the a/c or not.
Anyway, I had a bunch of 1/2" regular PVC in my cart at HD, and happened
to walk past the electrical dept and saw the 1/2" conduit for 80+
cents/10foot. The water pipe was at least 50% more, so I put it back and
got the conduit. BTW, I got the 1/2" and the 3/4" at different HD's,
so I guess that was the right price. Doesn't make sense to me either,
but I'm not complaining. I already have a ton of the sweep 45 and 90
fittings for 1/2" up to around 2" that I picked up over the years when
our local ReStore/Habitat for Humanity stores would get it in. They
ranged from about 10-50 cents dependiing on size. Larry

Lp1331 1p1331 wrote:
Doug--regarding PVC conduit prices-- that's what I paid for 3/4"at a
Home Depot here in San Antonio a little over a month ago. This is the
grey conduit from the electrical department. I don't remember the
brand, or if it had the one end swaged out so you didn't need a
coupling or not. That's what I couldn't understand-- it was about
half the cost of PVC water pipe. In fact, about six months ago, I
needed some 1/2"PVC for a drain for a small mini split a/c that I may
install in the future in a house I am working on. The walls and
ceiling are open (the room that will/might have the a/c is upstairs)
so I am installing the copper, wiring and drain now, regardless of
whether I install the a/c or not. Anyway, I had a bunch of 1/2"
regular PVC in my cart at HD, and happened to walk past the
electrical dept and saw the 1/2" conduit for 80+ cents/10foot. The
water pipe was at least 50% more, so I put it back and got the
conduit. BTW, I got the 1/2" and the 3/4" at different HD's, so I
guess that was the right price. Doesn't make sense to me either, but
I'm not complaining. I already have a ton of the sweep 45 and 90
fittings for 1/2" up to around 2" that I picked up over the years
when our local ReStore/Habitat for Humanity stores would get it in.
They ranged from about 10-50 cents dependiing on size. Larry

Pressure rating? Potability? Uniformity in size?

Would probably work great for a drain, though.

Jon

On Nov 16, 11:43*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , jamesgangnc wrote:

Isn't lots of your existing house wiring in your crawl? *All the wire
I have ever seen in a crawl is ordinary house wire. *And stapled to
the bottom of the floor joists. *The crawl is ok for ordinary wire.
And you can wire tie it to the cold water pipe to get to the top of
the heater. *You do not need romex, uf, or conduit. *Or furring strips.

Maybe you should stick to answering questions on topics you actually know
something about. This isn't one of them. *Everything* you wrote here is wrong.

I don't see how. I have two houses that both have unfinished crawl
spaces under them. All the wiring for the lower floor is run there
and stapled to the bottom of the floor joists. The only place holes
are made is the bottoms of the walls where the wire up into the
walls. Ordinary house wire. The hot water heat is in the crawl in
one of them. Disconnect attached to the floor joist above it.
Ordinary 10/2 house wire to the disconnect, ordinary 10/2 house wire
from the disconnect to the wh. Both houses were built by developers,
both houses had all the usual inspections. You're saying both are
completely wrong?

On 11/17/2009 10:52 AM mm spake thus:

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:24:18 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:

*Electrically Metallic Tubing and Flexible Metal Conduit.

Wow. I thought I had heard what EMT was and just forgotten it, but I
don't think I ever knew before.

Ackshooly, I find "electricAL metallic tubing" to be a better description.


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

On Nov 17, 3:07*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 11/17/2009 9:25 AM jamesgangnc spake thus:







On Nov 16, 11:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article
,
jamesgangnc wrote:

Isn't lots of your existing house wiring in your crawl? *All the wire
I have ever seen in a crawl is ordinary house wire. *And stapled to
the bottom of the floor joists. *The crawl is ok for ordinary wire.
And you can wire tie it to the cold water pipe to get to the top of
the heater. *You do not need romex, uf, or conduit. *Or furring strips.

Maybe you should stick to answering questions on topics you actually know
something about. This isn't one of them. *Everything* you wrote here is wrong.

I don't see how. *I have two houses that both have unfinished crawl
spaces under them. *All the wiring for the lower floor is run there
and stapled to the bottom of the floor joists. *The only place holes
are made is the bottoms of the walls where the wire up into the
walls. *Ordinary house wire. *The hot water heat is in the crawl in
one of them. *Disconnect attached to the floor joist above it.
Ordinary 10/2 house wire to the disconnect, ordinary 10/2 house wire
from the disconnect to the wh. *Both houses were built by developers,
both houses had all the usual inspections. *You're saying both are
completely wrong?

Well, yes and no:

o Regarding stapling *cable* to the bottom of joists in a crawlspace,
this is technically a no-no according to the NEC. However, if this truly
is a crawlspace, and not part of the inhabitable or usable part of the
house, it's hard to see the harm in doing this, since it's unlikely
anyone's going to hang anything from the cable. Still not the way I
would have done it: would it have killed the "developer" to have bored
holes through the joists the way you're supposed to?

o You're a little vague there when you talk about what kind of wiring
you're using. When you say "ordinary wire", do you mean just insulated
wire (like THHN) without any kind of jacket or covering? If so, then
that really is wrong. You can't just run wires in midair. If you're
talking about 10/2 *Romex*, then that's OK.

It really helps to be clear about these things so people know what
you're referring to.

--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm talking about ordinary NM 14/2, 12/2, 12/3, etc w ground. If it's
a crawl space then it's not habitable. If it's habitable then it's a
basement. And I have been in the crawl of a LOT of houses around here
constructed within the last 20 years and none of them have holes in
the floor joists, they all have the wire staples to the bottom of the
joists. It's all about how fast you can complete the job and boring
holes where not required is not going to make it faster. I've also
never seen conduit used to connect a wh. Yes, there is a disconnect
if the breaker box can not be seen from the wh. But all I have ever
seen from the disconnect to the wh is more wire, not conduit. Usually
ziptied to the cold pipe. The only place I have seen conduit used is
on outside stuff like ac compressors or hot tubs. Now maybe someone
thinks they can interprete the nec to say this is wrong but there
ain't no inspectors failing it.

So, again, why does this guy need to do anything besides staple up
some NM 10/2 to a disconnect nailed to a floor joist by the wh? Cause
if he has a "wet" crawl then he's got way bigger problems than his wh
wire.

Around here, most all electric WH's are installed with a 30 amp
receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
using that setup. Larry

"Lp1331 1p1331" wrote in message
...
Around here, most all electric WH's are installed with a 30 amp
receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
using that setup. Larry



*Off hand I don't see a problem with that hook up. Having the plug and
receptacle is an acceptable means of disconnection. I guess the original
installer figured it was cheaper to do that instead of a 30 amp switch.

On 11/18/2009 6:38 PM John Grabowski spake thus:

"Lp1331 1p1331" wrote in message
...

Around here, most all electric WH's are installed with a 30 amp
receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
using that setup.

*Off hand I don't see a problem with that hook up. Having the plug and
receptacle is an acceptable means of disconnection. I guess the original
installer figured it was cheaper to do that instead of a 30 amp switch.

Why have a redundant switch when there's already one inside the breaker
panel? It's not as if someone's gonna stand there and switch the heater
on and off regularly, like a motor on a controller.


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

On Nov 19, 2:57*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 11/18/2009 6:38 PM John Grabowski spake thus:



"Lp1331 1p1331" wrote in message
...

Around here, most all electric WH's are installed with a 30 amp
receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
using that setup.

*Off hand I don't see a problem with that hook up. *Having the plug and
receptacle is an acceptable means of disconnection. *I guess the original
installer figured it was cheaper to do that instead of a 30 amp switch.

Why have a redundant switch when there's already one inside the breaker
panel? It's not as if someone's gonna stand there and switch the heater
on and off regularly, like a motor on a controller.

--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

In the US you must have a disconnect on all hardwired appliances. It
must either be visible from the appliance or lockable. This is so
that the device can not be turned back on by someone else while you
are working on it. Most of the time this is solved using a $10
disconnect box mounted near the appliance. A plug also works and
that's why dryers do not need a disconnect.