A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Nov 6, 3:02*pm, jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Man, those Chinese are something! I've heard of tilt-up construction,
but never tilting up the entire building after it's been completed!
What will they think of next...

R

On 11/6/2009 1:22 PM RicodJour spake thus:

On Nov 6, 3:02 pm, jeff_wisnia wrote:

A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Man, those Chinese are something! I've heard of tilt-up construction,
but never tilting up the entire building after it's been completed!
What will they think of next...

Those pilings sticking out the bottom make it look more like the
proverbial "tits up".


--
Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?

- harvested from Usenet

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

Those pilings look awfully flimsy, no wonder they snapped off, there was
hardly any re-rods and they were just hollow tubes, not much more than a
concrete drain pipe.

"EXT" wrote in news:4af4a115$0$65858
:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

Those pilings look awfully flimsy, no wonder they snapped off, there was
hardly any re-rods and they were just hollow tubes, not much more than a
concrete drain pipe.


Think it has Chinese Drywall?

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Holy mackerel, I don't feel so bad about my shoddy workmanship now!

Jon

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
eonecommunications...
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Amazing that the structure remained as intact as it did. The foundation was
weak, but the building sure wasn't. Lots of the windowpanes weren't even
broken. It looked so undamaged that I thought, after seeing just the first
photo, that it was a fake. Obviously not.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
eonecommunications...
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Amazing that the structure remained as intact as it did. The foundation was
weak, but the building sure wasn't. Lots of the windowpanes weren't even
broken. It looked so undamaged that I thought, after seeing just the first
photo, that it was a fake. Obviously not.

--
Bobby G.

On Nov 6, 4:20*pm, mike wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
ceonecommunications...
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Amazing that the structure remained as intact as it did. *The foundation was
weak, but the building sure wasn't. *Lots of the windowpanes weren't even
broken. *It looked so undamaged that I thought, after seeing just the first
photo, that it was a fake. *Obviously not.

--
Bobby G.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry. I meant to agree with Robert, but my computer hiccupped. So,
I guess I'll re-iterate (again) that it's amazing the building didn't
crumble more.

"mike" wrote in message
...

Sorry. I meant to agree with Robert, but my computer hiccupped. So,
I guess I'll re-iterate (again) that it's amazing the building didn't
crumble more.

I suspect that the reason it gives that appearance is because the buildings
collapse was cushioned a bit in the soft mud, allowing the stresses to snap
things sequentially as it fell rather than an explosion where the energy is
applied all at once.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"mike" wrote in message
...

Sorry. I meant to agree with Robert, but my computer hiccupped. So,
I guess I'll re-iterate (again) that it's amazing the building didn't
crumble more.

I suspect that the reason it gives that appearance is because the
buildings
collapse was cushioned a bit in the soft mud, allowing the stresses to
snap
things sequentially as it fell rather than an explosion where the energy
is
applied all at once.

Yeah but . . . (-: Many of the windows didn't even break. That's just
bizarre. I wonder what the "rate of descent" was. I guess if it tipped over
gradually enough there wasn't a big slam at the end, but still, it's a
pretty amazing site. Or sight. Or even cite. Thanks for posting that,
Jeff.

I guess I am used to seeing collapsed buildings in the aftermath of
earthquakes where the buildings fall because they are shaken apart. The
Shanghai building didn't have to endure any pre-collapse shaking and I am
betting the ground gave way slowly and the pilings appear to have bent
before they broke, asborbing both time and energy and moderating the forces
on the building. Still, what a ride that must have been. Sounds like a
project for Disney World. Here are some random EQ photos, FWIW:

http://images.google.com/images?q=japanese+earthquakes

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:02:17 -0500, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

This is actually a better arrangement, because it puts more people on
the ground floor, and doesn't rely so much on elevators.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:02:17 -0500, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

This is actually a better arrangement, because it puts more people on
the ground floor, and doesn't rely so much on elevators.

If that had happened in the US with all the homeless people we now have, you
can be sure that if it wasn't demolished quickly, it would soon be occupied,
even in the horizontal state.

--
Bobby G.

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
eonecommunications...
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse and
diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


And to think, it was undoubtedly built using Chinese dry wall.

Charlie

On Nov 6, 2:02*pm, jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

CSBDS Chinesee Sick Building Drywall Sympton, corrosive Drywall fumes
corroded the rebar. Was it even attatched to the foundation? The break
looks to clean.

In article
communications,
jeff_wisnia wrote:

A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

Cool, thanks, Jeff. I remember seeing some of those pics before, but not
that large and not that many. Did you translate the Chinese? Are you
going to leave that on your site indefinitely? If so I'll bookmark it.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
communications,
jeff_wisnia wrote:


A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff


Cool, thanks, Jeff. I remember seeing some of those pics before, but not
that large and not that many. Did you translate the Chinese? Are you
going to leave that on your site indefinitely? If so I'll bookmark it.

The page came pretty much as you see it as an e-mail from a fellow
college alumni buddy.

I made it into a simple html file and added a link to a news source to
calm the folks who thought it might be a Photoshopped hoax.

I'll leave it up where it is unless I run out of storage space on my
Comcast account.

For those who haven't stumbled onto it already there's a website called
"Wayback Machine":

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

Which can let you see web pages which have been removed from their
original server locations.

It's saved my backside more than once when I goofed and accidently
deleted something from my Comcast storage space and found I didn't have
a copy stored anywhere else.

Jeff



--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?

Tony wrote:
jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?

I'd guess they were a contractor cutting corners if I had to guess...if
those hollow ones were really actual pilings and not drain conduits or
somesuch. There also appear solid pourings as well. W/O design
documents are to say what might have been intended.

Certainly the lack of any steel of consequence meant there was
absolutely no tensile strength in the design to speak of.

Looks to me like what happened was that the lateral force from the
loading and wet soil conditions caused the whole thing to tilt and at
the critical point the tension load was too much and they fractured.

As to the question regarding steel, undoubtedly would not have broken
cleanly; what would have been total result would have depended on depth
of pilings (moment arm to resist rotation) and actual soil conditions
and, of course, whether any steel was of sufficient size/strength to
withstand the moment arm itself of the load caused by the initial tilt.

One would wonder about the long-term stability of the rest against
extraordinary high wind, particularly if the supposition there might be
inferior work as compared to design in play were to be true...

It really is hard to fathom there would be no steel reinforcement in the
design...

--

One would wonder about the long-term stability of the rest against
extraordinary high wind, particularly if the supposition there might be
inferior work as compared to design in play were to be true...

It really is hard to fathom there would be no steel reinforcement in the
design...

chinese find awesome cost cutting methods.

did you know 45,000 died last year in mining accidents?

The US should allow ALL imports, but require them to meet US health,
safety and workers rules........

wrote in message
...

One would wonder about the long-term stability of the rest against
extraordinary high wind, particularly if the supposition there might be
inferior work as compared to design in play were to be true...

It really is hard to fathom there would be no steel reinforcement in the
design...

chinese find awesome cost cutting methods.

did you know 45,000 died last year in mining accidents?

The US should allow ALL imports, but require them to meet US health,
safety and workers rules........

Then there were be no point in having exported several million manufacturing
jobs out of the country (he says with deep sarcasm). Anyone who thinks
those jobs are coming back is smoking jimson weed or worse. The Chinese
version of OSHA is: anyone complaining about workplace safety is taken away
and shot and their families are sent a bill for the bullets. The scariest
part is that they could sink us (and perhaps themselves and maybe the whole
world) by just selling all the US bonds they are holding. I read today that
the real, "uncooked" jobless rate is over 17%. That's close to 1 out of
every 5 workers being out of work.

--
Bobby G.

On Nov 7, 2:26�pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message

...



One would wonder about the long-term stability of the rest against
extraordinary high wind, particularly if the supposition there might be
inferior work as compared to design in play were to be true...

It really is hard to fathom there would be no steel reinforcement in the
design...

chinese find awesome cost cutting methods.

did you know 45,000 died last year in mining accidents?

The US should allow ALL imports, but require them to meet US health,
safety and workers rules........

Then there were be no point in having exported several million manufacturing
jobs out of the country (he says with deep sarcasm). �Anyone who thinks
those jobs are coming back is smoking jimson weed or worse. �The Chinese
version of OSHA is: anyone complaining about workplace safety is taken away
and shot and their families are sent a bill for the bullets. �The scariest
part is that they could sink us (and perhaps themselves and maybe the whole
world) by just selling all the US bonds they are holding. �I read today that
the real, "uncooked" jobless rate is over 17%. �That's close to 1 out of
every 5 workers being out of work.

--
Bobby G.

yeah NAFTA was a BAD idea.............

the machines I sell and service for a living now come from china.

my family in phoenix is devastated, nearly all manfacturing jobs went
to mexico, home prices are in free fall, severe unemployment.

how long will recovery take 5 years? 10? 20

the only way we can compete is moving to robotics with artifical
intelligence.

or drop our standard of living to near match 3rd world countries

wrote:

did you know 45,000 died last year in
mining accidents?

Citation please.

CWLee wrote:


wrote:

did you know 45,000 died last year in mining accidents?

Citation please.

Actually, it was over twice that and that was a reduction...


China’s State Administration of Work Safety said the coal mining
death toll fell 15% last year, dipping below 100,000 fatalities for
the first time in 14 years.

The official death toll for 2008 was 91,172 fatalities while the
number of accidents dropped more than 10% to 506,000.

http://paguntaka.org/2009/01/30/mining-exploration-accident-in-china-2008-review-china%E2%80%99s-coal-mining-death-decline/

--

Tony wrote:
jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is
mine, they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very
similar. Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick
it out of the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?

For the same amount of material, a tube is stronger than a solid cylinder.

Compare a soda straw with a #2 pencil.

No, wait...

On Nov 7, 8:17*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Tony wrote:
jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is
mine, they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very
*similar. Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick
it out of the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? *They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. *Hollow? *Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?

For the same amount of material, a tube is stronger than a solid cylinder..

Dig, dig, dig. The hollow piling is stronger for its intended load.
The hollow tube piling has greater bearing capacity. The woulda/
coulda/shoulda Monday morning quarterbacking stuff is stupid. The
excavation and the heavy rains are what caused the building to fall.
Note the other buildings did not fall.

I know nothing of the seismic activity in the area, climate (read
typhoon, etc), so it is pointless to speculate whether the design was
adequate or not. If a contractor undermines a foundation, whatever
the design, it will fail.

R

RicodJour wrote:
....
Dig, dig, dig. The hollow piling is stronger for its intended load.
The hollow tube piling has greater bearing capacity. The woulda/
coulda/shoulda Monday morning quarterbacking stuff is stupid. The
excavation and the heavy rains are what caused the building to fall.
Note the other buildings did not fall.

I know nothing of the seismic activity in the area, climate (read
typhoon, etc), so it is pointless to speculate whether the design was
adequate or not. If a contractor undermines a foundation, whatever
the design, it will fail.

Certainly, that last was precisely the point I was made. The failure
was of the nature it was because once the initial lean became of a
certain magnitude the construction had little compensation for tension.

I still say seems at least moderately unusual to have so little steel in
large concrete construction. I've not tried a typical design wind
loading calculation estimate, but there would be quite a moment on those
towers that would be translated downward on the windward side.

__

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:38:35 -0500, Tony
wrote:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?


It's a little hard to see in the photos but to me it looks like the
pilings were actually made by first driving metal piles into the
ground and then filling the inside of them and encasing the outside of
them in concrete. most likely they drilled a hole to some depth, then
dropped the piles in and drove them deeper, then backfilled it all
with concrete with some rebar.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:38:35 -0500, Tony
wrote:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/
I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?


It's a little hard to see in the photos but to me it looks like the
pilings were actually made by first driving metal piles into the
ground and then filling the inside of them and encasing the outside of
them in concrete. most likely they drilled a hole to some depth, then
dropped the piles in and drove them deeper, then backfilled it all
with concrete with some rebar.

I didn't see any rebar of any size at all anywhere in any of the pictures...

--

On Nov 8, 8:42�am, dpb wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:38:35 -0500, Tony
wrote:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/
I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:42:50 -0600, dpb wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:38:35 -0500, Tony
wrote:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/
I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?


It's a little hard to see in the photos but to me it looks like the
pilings were actually made by first driving metal piles into the
ground and then filling the inside of them and encasing the outside of
them in concrete. most likely they drilled a hole to some depth, then
dropped the piles in and drove them deeper, then backfilled it all
with concrete with some rebar.

I didn't see any rebar of any size at all anywhere in any of the pictures...

There is some. Go to the very bottom picture, it's the best one for
seeing the rebar and the steel pile. Upper left corner of the photo.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:42:50 -0600, dpb wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:38:35 -0500, Tony
wrote:

jeff_wisnia wrote:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse
and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/
I'm glad I don't live there, I'd never remember which apartment is mine,
they all look alike, even the ones that are different look very similar.
Well if the flat one was my building I suppose I could pick it out of
the rest.

What is with the hollow pilings? They really look weak with a little
bit of steel wire mesh in them. Hollow? Would it have happened if it
were steel I beams encased in concrete?

It's a little hard to see in the photos but to me it looks like the
pilings were actually made by first driving metal piles into the
ground and then filling the inside of them and encasing the outside of
them in concrete. most likely they drilled a hole to some depth, then
dropped the piles in and drove them deeper, then backfilled it all
with concrete with some rebar.
I didn't see any rebar of any size at all anywhere in any of the pictures...

There is some. Go to the very bottom picture, it's the best one for
seeing the rebar and the steel pile. Upper left corner of the photo.

Evidently that one piece of rebar wasn't enough. ;-)

In eonecommunications,
jeff_wisnia typed:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

lol, with a little bracing, that coule be turned into another building just
as it sets! Imagine the room dimensions!

"news.eternal-september.org" wrote in message
...
In eonecommunications,
jeff_wisnia typed:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

lol, with a little bracing, that coule be turned into another building
just
as it sets! Imagine the room dimensions!

Architect I.M. Pei once said that we should reconsider our love of
skyscrapers, particularly in earthquake zones because "Someday, the world's
tallest building may end up being the world's longest one." I think he may
be right if this is how they're being built.

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:52:40 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"news.eternal-september.org" wrote in message
...
In eonecommunications,
jeff_wisnia typed:
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building
collapse and diagrams explaining what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff

lol, with a little bracing, that coule be turned into another building
just
as it sets! Imagine the room dimensions!

Architect I.M. Pei once said that we should reconsider our love of
skyscrapers, particularly in earthquake zones because "Someday, the world's
tallest building may end up being the world's longest one." I think he may
be right if this is how they're being built.


I remember a Monty Python episode where a building was held up by the
belief of the residents that it was going to stay up. I guess these
folks just didn't believe enough.

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
eonecommunications...
A more complete set of photos of this June's Shanghai building collapse and diagrams explaining
what happened and why.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/bldg_fall/

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

Hey, I really don't understand what the big deal is here. It's just an extreme case of "flip this
house"!

;^)

Eric Law