Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout area of pool (unknown)
------------------- = --------------------
mass of entire print area of entire print


8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.


My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--

In article , harry k wrote:


Could use a string, stretch it carefully around the pool
edge, measure length, solve for diameter of circle, solve for area.

That would give only an upper limit to the area. The greater the deviation of
the shape from circular, the greater the deviation of the computed area from
the actual area.

In article , bud-- wrote:
Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout area of pool (unknown)
------------------- = --------------------
mass of entire print area of entire print


8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.


My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

Here's another: Measure the pH of the pool water. Add a known amount of acid,
and measure the pH again. Compute the volume of water from the difference in
pH readings.

On Oct 8, 10:01*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry k wrote:



Could use a string, stretch it carefully around the pool
edge, measure length, solve for diameter of circle, solve for area.

That would give only an upper limit to the area. The greater the deviation of
the shape from circular, the greater the deviation of the computed area from
the actual area.

True, I overlooked that. My solution wouldn't even come close.

Harry K

On Oct 8, 7:45*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 7, 7:49*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

John H. Holliday wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a
kidney shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Actually it's a geometry question...

There is no way to figure the area of an irregular, curved object using
plane geometry.

"plane geometry" is used to find the area of aircraft.

That's baaaddd.

Harry K

On Oct 8, 9:19*am, bud-- wrote:
Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout * * * * area of pool (unknown)
------------------- * *= * * --------------------
mass of entire print * * * *area of entire print

8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.

Errm...wouldn't you have to allow for the weight of ink in various
areas?


My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -


Nice. dunno about this: Drop good sized weight in, measure
difference in water level...

Harry K

On Oct 7, 9:12*pm, Red Green wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in news:ql5vp6-60b2.ln1
@news.infowest.com:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Looks like from all the replies you're gettin' too much info here Steve.
Here's a simple solution.

Look at perimeter from a distance.
Hold arm straight out with thumb up.
Line up thumb with eye and shape.
Pull number out of your ass...like maybe 42.
Yer dun.

Isn't 17 the correct answer to everything? (Hitchiker's Guide to the
Galaxy).

Harry K

In article , harry k wrote:
On Oct 7, 9:12=A0pm, Red Green wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in news:ql5vp6-60b2.ln1
@news.infowest.com:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? =A0It is a kidne=
y
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Looks like from all the replies you're gettin' too much info here Steve.
Here's a simple solution.

Look at perimeter from a distance.
Hold arm straight out with thumb up.
Line up thumb with eye and shape.
Pull number out of your ass...like maybe 42.
Yer dun.

Isn't 17 the correct answer to everything? (Hitchiker's Guide to the
Galaxy).

No, that's where "42" came from.

On Oct 8, 12:19*pm, bud-- wrote:
Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout * * * * area of pool (unknown)
------------------- * *= * * --------------------
mass of entire print * * * *area of entire print

8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.

My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same idea, but way less messy:

1 - Mark the water level of the pool as it is right now.
2 - Drain the pool 1/2", 3/4", 1", whatever.
3 - Refill the pool to the original line, keeping track of how many
gallons it takes.

"Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial."

On Oct 8, 1:59*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:19*pm, bud-- wrote:



Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout * * * * area of pool (unknown)
------------------- * *= * * --------------------
mass of entire print * * * *area of entire print

8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.

My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same idea, but way less messy:

1 - Mark the water level of the pool as it is right now.
2 - Drain the pool 1/2", 3/4", 1", whatever.
3 - Refill the pool to the original line, keeping track of how many
gallons it takes.

"Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial."

Why do you have to drain it? Couldn't you just add 1/2" of water?
It also seems odd to start playing with volumes when you want area.
It could be done, but the added dimension would require you to be very
precise - very precise - with the measurement of the change in water
depth or the number would be as bad, or worse, as a guess.

R

On Oct 8, 2:24*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:59*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Oct 8, 12:19*pm, bud-- wrote:

Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout * * * * area of pool (unknown)
------------------- * *= * * --------------------
mass of entire print * * * *area of entire print

8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.

My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same idea, but way less messy:

1 - Mark the water level of the pool as it is right now.
2 - Drain the pool 1/2", 3/4", 1", whatever.
3 - Refill the pool to the original line, keeping track of how many
gallons it takes.

"Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial."

Why do you have to drain it? *Couldn't you just add 1/2" of water?
It also seems odd to start playing with volumes when you want area.
It could be done, but the added dimension would require you to be very
precise - very precise - with the measurement of the change in water
depth or the number would be as bad, or worse, as a guess.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First, let's realize that we're all just tossing out possible
solutions as a brain exercise.

No more than would I expect the OP to pour 55 galons of 0W20 into his
pool, would I expect him to drain/refill it to determine the area.

However, to answer your specific question - "Why do you have to drain
it?":

Have you seen the OP's pool? It's filled right to the top of the
skimmer, so adding a 1/2" of water would put the skimmer out of
commision until the new water evaporated. By that time, all the debris
that the skimmer would usually handle -- leaves, suntan oil, hair --
would become a toxic waste composition that would eat away at the
liner, causing deterioration of the concrete walls, resulting in a
massive leak and a sinkhole that would swallow the OP's house.

With that possiblity on the table, I'd suggest draining off the 1/2".

Doug Miller wrote:
In article
,
harry k wrote:
On Oct 7, 9:12=A0pm, Red Green wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in news:ql5vp6-60b2.ln1
@news.infowest.com:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? =A0It is a
kidne=
y
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Looks like from all the replies you're gettin' too much info here
Steve. Here's a simple solution.

Look at perimeter from a distance.
Hold arm straight out with thumb up.
Line up thumb with eye and shape.
Pull number out of your ass...like maybe 42.
Yer dun.

Isn't 17 the correct answer to everything? (Hitchiker's Guide to the
Galaxy).

No, that's where "42" came from.

But there were three books in the series. Three times 17 is 42 (or close
enough).

SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.

Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.

Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.

E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.

Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.

Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.

Ideally, choose a windless, overcast day when the water temperature is
near the dew point.

On Oct 8, 2:25*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. *If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. *This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.

Now see what units your water meter measures. *Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. *Write your depth in mm. *Write
your meter reading.

Fill. *Write your new depth and meter reading. *See how much water was
used and convert to liters. *Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.

Ideally, choose a windless, overcast day when the water temperature is
near the dew point.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever seen a pool where there
are absolutely no ripples and the water level isn't heaving even a
little from some sort of hydraulic pendulum effect?

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:10:18 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


You can not calculate area from the perimeter of an irregular shape.
Draw the shape on graph paper, then add up the squares. Try to guess
the percentage included for those squares cut off by the pool
boundaries. The smaller the squares, the greater the accuracy.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:10:18 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


Look at the blueprints. I don't do math :-/

My pool is shaped like a snowman ( oOo ) Go figger.

On Oct 8, 1:46*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:05*am, Red Green wrote:



RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 7, 3:10 pm, "SteveB" wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Use SketchUp. *It's probably the easiest way.
http://edublog.sedck12.org/.../Calcu...lar_Shapes.pdf

You're welcome! *

Without the dot dot dots so the link works.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...lculating_Area...

You're welcome! *

Little bit more on it.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...rregShapes.pdf

You're welcome! *

Indeed I am. *

I did a "copy link location" since it was a PDF - first time I ever
had an ellipsis swapped in there when I pasted. *Remind me to
proofread before I post next time. *Thanks in advance!

I'm curious, does anyone else here use Sketchup for determining
areas? *I find it amazingly helpful when estimating. *It's tailor made
for such things as SteveB is doing. *Only a few measurements are
needed and then the curve is tweaked by eye.


Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. I drew four curves - drew
one curve of one end of the pool, copied it and moved the copy to the
far end of the pool, scaled it to reverse its direction, and drew two
curves tangent to the ends of the end curves. Then right clicked on
the surface and chose the area function. It took me longer to write
this than to draw it.

http://tinypic.com/r/35bvx2g/4

R

Phisherman wrote:

You can not calculate area from the perimeter of an irregular shape.

yes you can

using calculus...... simpsons method

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

Red Green wrote:

First you write the equation for the curve as a function of x: f(x) =
equation.

Little snag here. Has no idea what the equation is. Oh, but there's an
area of mathematics for this too...after differential calculus and
after integral calculus. Crank up the differential
equations...mathematical equations for an unknown functions.


Sorry, that's a completely different question. Five cents more, please.




Hmmm, let's see...[digging way down in corners of pocket] a screw, pocket
lint, handy box knockout, reminder note that went through the wash...errr,
how's my credit lookin'?

RicodJour wrote in
:

On Oct 8, 1:46*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:05*am, Red Green wrote:



RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 7, 3:10 pm, "SteveB" wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a
ki
dney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Use SketchUp. *It's probably the easiest way.
http://edublog.sedck12.org/.../Calcu...ular_Shapes.pd
f

You're welcome! *

Without the dot dot dots so the link works.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...lculating_Area
...

You're welcome! *

Little bit more on it.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...rregShapes.pdf

You're welcome! *

Indeed I am. *

I did a "copy link location" since it was a PDF - first time I ever
had an ellipsis swapped in there when I pasted. *Remind me to
proofread before I post next time. *Thanks in advance!

I'm curious, does anyone else here use Sketchup for determining
areas? *I find it amazingly helpful when estimating. *It's tailor mad
e
for such things as SteveB is doing. *Only a few measurements are
needed and then the curve is tweaked by eye.


Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. I drew four curves - drew
one curve of one end of the pool, copied it and moved the copy to the
far end of the pool, scaled it to reverse its direction, and drew two
curves tangent to the ends of the end curves. Then right clicked on
the surface and chose the area function. It took me longer to write
this than to draw it.

http://tinypic.com/r/35bvx2g/4

R

Looks pretty slick. Probably worth a few hours of investment time to
learn to use if you have repeated uses as Steve says he does. If it only
takes a few hrs to learn a specific use that speeds thing up, the ROI
would be great.

harry k wrote in
:

On Oct 7, 9:12*pm, Red Green wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in news:ql5vp6-60b2.ln1
@news.infowest.com:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a
kidne
y
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Looks like from all the replies you're gettin' too much info here
Steve. Here's a simple solution.

Look at perimeter from a distance.
Hold arm straight out with thumb up.
Line up thumb with eye and shape.
Pull number out of your ass...like maybe 42.
Yer dun.

Isn't 17 the correct answer to everything? (Hitchiker's Guide to the
Galaxy).

Harry K


Well I pulled it outta my ass. What do you expect? Just because I can
talk out of my ass doesn't mean I have an intelligent asshole.

On Oct 8, 9:28*pm, Red Green wrote:
RicodJour wrote :



On Oct 8, 1:46*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:05*am, Red Green wrote:

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 7, 3:10 pm, "SteveB" wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a
ki
dney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Use SketchUp. *It's probably the easiest way.
http://edublog.sedck12.org/.../Calcu...ular_Shapes.pd
f

You're welcome! *

Without the dot dot dots so the link works.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...lculating_Area
...

You're welcome! *

Little bit more on it.

http://edublog.sedck12.org/media/blo...rregShapes.pdf

You're welcome! *

Indeed I am. *

I did a "copy link location" since it was a PDF - first time I ever
had an ellipsis swapped in there when I pasted. *Remind me to
proofread before I post next time. *Thanks in advance!

I'm curious, does anyone else here use Sketchup for determining
areas? *I find it amazingly helpful when estimating. *It's tailor mad
e
for such things as SteveB is doing. *Only a few measurements are
needed and then the curve is tweaked by eye.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. *I drew four curves - drew
one curve of one end of the pool, copied it and moved the copy to the
far end of the pool, scaled it to reverse its direction, and drew two
curves tangent to the ends of the end curves. *Then right clicked on
the surface and chose the area function. *It took me longer to write
this than to draw it.

http://tinypic.com/r/35bvx2g/4


Looks pretty slick. Probably worth a few hours of investment time to
learn to use if you have repeated uses as Steve says he does. If it only
takes a few hrs to learn a specific use that speeds thing up, the ROI
would be great.

Few hours...? It would be more like 30 minutes. It's a really
intuitive program. You're up and running in very little time. Unlike
AutoCAD, where it took me months of deciding whether I should blow my
own brains out or the brains of the mofo's at AutoDesk. I opted for
the violence-free alternative - I just stopped using the program. I
consider it to be akin to a failed affair. Had it's moments, but few
and far between.

R

bud-- wrote in
:

Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a
kidney shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw
the paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is
easy to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine
the area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout area of pool (unknown)
------------------- = --------------------
mass of entire print area of entire print


8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.


My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps
0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.


Good idea! Then to get rid of the oil you just toss in a hose and let it
overfill till the oil is gone. Oh hell, even a forest flattened from fire
comes back. The pond surroundings should come back...eventually.

Oren wrote in news:3fpsc5dq1ukq64bsnl9cqi3f91tuvjtlct@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:10:18 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve


Look at the blueprints. I don't do math :-/

My pool is shaped like a snowman ( oOo ) Go figger.



I figger it's 0.

0+0+0=0
0x0x0=0
0^0^0=0 (logic)
0v0v0=0 (logic)

mike wrote:
On Oct 8, 2:25 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.
Steve
The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.
Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.
Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.
Ideally, choose a windless, overcast day when the water temperature is
near the dew point.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever seen a pool where there
are absolutely no ripples and the water level isn't heaving even a
little from some sort of hydraulic pendulum effect?

When I checked my neighbors' pool today I got a constant reading on my
ruler, precise to .5mm or so. There was some rippling where filtered
water was being returned to the pool, and the wind may have been 1 mph.

On a day when the water temperature was 85F and the dew point was 60F
and the wind 10mph, if it took hours to raise the water level, I imagine
you could lose enough from evaporation to make area calculations
meaningless.

RicodJour wrote:

You're up and running in very little time. Unlike
AutoCAD, where it took me months of deciding whether I should blow my
own brains out or the brains of the mofo's at AutoDesk. I opted for
the violence-free alternative - I just stopped using the program. I
consider it to be akin to a failed affair. Had it's moments, but few
and far between.

As a former AutoCAD user I 100 percent agree!!

AutoCAD is for masochists!

On Oct 8, 10:47*pm, wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
You're up and running in very little time. *Unlike
AutoCAD, where it took me months of deciding whether I should blow my
own brains out or the brains of the mofo's at AutoDesk. *I opted for
the violence-free alternative - I just stopped using the program. *I
consider it to be akin to a failed affair. *Had it's moments, but few
and far between.

As a former AutoCAD user I 100 percent agree!!

AutoCAD is for masochists!

Hello Brother! There should be a recovering AutoCAD users group, and
the theme song would be, "We're Not Gonna Take It"

Oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we've Got The Right To Choose And
there Ain't No Way We'll Lose It
this Is Our Life, This Is Our Song
we'll Fight The Powers That Be Just
don't Pick Our Destiny 'cause
you Don't Know Us, You Don't Belong

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh You're So Condescending
your Gall Is Never Ending
we Don't Want Nothin', Not A Thing From You
your Life Is Trite And Jaded
boring And Confiscated
if That's Your Best, Your Best Won't Do

See you at next month's meeting.

R

RicodJour wrote in news:0a3e429c-aaa2-4a38-
:

On Oct 8, 10:47*pm, wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
You're up and running in very little time. *Unlike
AutoCAD, where it took me months of deciding whether I should blow my
own brains out or the brains of the mofo's at AutoDesk. *I opted for
the violence-free alternative - I just stopped using the program. *I
consider it to be akin to a failed affair. *Had it's moments, but few
and far between.

As a former AutoCAD user I 100 percent agree!!

AutoCAD is for masochists!

Hello Brother! There should be a recovering AutoCAD users group, and
the theme song would be, "We're Not Gonna Take It"

Oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we've Got The Right To Choose And
there Ain't No Way We'll Lose It
this Is Our Life, This Is Our Song
we'll Fight The Powers That Be Just
don't Pick Our Destiny 'cause
you Don't Know Us, You Don't Belong

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh You're So Condescending
your Gall Is Never Ending
we Don't Want Nothin', Not A Thing From You
your Life Is Trite And Jaded
boring And Confiscated
if That's Your Best, Your Best Won't Do

See you at next month's meeting.

R


Easy Does It,
Red Green 05/28/1986 ;-)

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 9:28 pm, Red Green wrote:
RicodJour wrote :



On Oct 8, 1:46 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:05 am, Red Green wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
(snip)

Few hours...? It would be more like 30 minutes. It's a really
intuitive program. You're up and running in very little time. Unlike
AutoCAD, where it took me months of deciding whether I should blow my
own brains out or the brains of the mofo's at AutoDesk. I opted for
the violence-free alternative - I just stopped using the program. I
consider it to be akin to a failed affair. Had it's moments, but few
and far between.


Snort. BTDT. Tried to set my father the house designer up with a low-end
Autocad setup a few years ago, when his eyes started going bad. He
tried, he really tried. But after about a year, he ended up selling the
plotter to his assistant to use at home, and went back to sketching by
hand. I do computers for a living, more or less, even though I'm not
really trained in IT. (I serve as the translator between the end users
and the programmers/hardware geeks.) Acad has to be one of the most
user-hostile and impenetrable programs I have ever laid hands on. Even
getting it installed correctly is a major chore. I know it is a powerful
program, and I suppose that when you get to the AH-HA! moment on the
learning curve, it is the berries, but getting there is beyond most people.

--
aem sends...

E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.

Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.

Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.

I don't have a pool so I may be missing what you are saying. I am
reading that you are measuring the difference in the pool level when you
add water.

I really doubt you can measure to the nearest mm. If you can the
possible error is plus/minus 0.5 mm. To measure the height increase to
1% you would have to add 50 mm of water (0.5 mm possible error is 1% of
50 mm). (That excludes temperature effects, evaporation and accuracy of
the water measurement.) Converting, 50 mm is about 2 inches. Might be
more practical when you are filling the pool.

aemeijers wrote:

Acad has to be one of the most
user-hostile and impenetrable programs I have ever laid hands on. Even
getting it installed correctly is a major chore. I know it is a powerful
program, and I suppose that when you get to the AH-HA! moment on the
learning curve, it is the berries, but getting there is beyond most people.

Agree

If designing in 3D no need to use ACAD any more
anyway. Get a solids modeler like Solid Works

The ONLY thing I would use CADA for now days is 2D
electrical schematics..... and I'm not even sure I
would use ACAD in THAT case!

I spent 12 years using ACAD and will never go back to
that again!

On Oct 8, 10:41*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
mike wrote:
On Oct 8, 2:25 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:

The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. *If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. *This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.
Now see what units your water meter measures. *Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. *Write your depth in mm. *Write
your meter reading.
Fill. *Write your new depth and meter reading. *See how much water was
used and convert to liters. *Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.
Ideally, choose a windless, overcast day when the water temperature is
near the dew point.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever seen a pool where there
are absolutely no ripples and the water level isn't heaving even a
little from some sort of hydraulic pendulum effect?

When I checked my neighbors' pool today I got a constant reading on my
ruler, precise to .5mm or so. *There was some rippling where filtered
water was being returned to the pool, and the wind may have been 1 mph.

I'll phrase my words carefully - what a load! 1/2 millimeter.
Please. The water in a bathtub couldn't be measured to that degree of
accuracy. The surface tension of the water alone would throw the
reading off by at least that much.

Interesting that you would use the word precise instead of the word
accurate. Precise has connotations of repeatability, and I have no
doubt that your eyes, system and predilections would cause you to read
accuracy into something that isn't.

On a day when the water temperature was 85F and the dew point was 60F
and the wind 10mph, if it took hours to raise the water level, I imagine
you could lose enough from evaporation to make area calculations
meaningless.

Measuring a volume makes an area calculation meaningless in something
where you can't accurately measure the change in depth. If you want
to measure an area, measure an area. Don't add another variable and
expect it to be more precise or accurate.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 10:41 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
mike wrote:
On Oct 8, 2:25 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put the
end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the ruler
looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes it easy
to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision greater
than 1 mm.
Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.
Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.
Ideally, choose a windless, overcast day when the water temperature is
near the dew point.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever seen a pool where there
are absolutely no ripples and the water level isn't heaving even a
little from some sort of hydraulic pendulum effect?
When I checked my neighbors' pool today I got a constant reading on my
ruler, precise to .5mm or so. There was some rippling where filtered
water was being returned to the pool, and the wind may have been 1 mph.

I'll phrase my words carefully - what a load! 1/2 millimeter.
Please. The water in a bathtub couldn't be measured to that degree of
accuracy. The surface tension of the water alone would throw the
reading off by at least that much.

Interesting that you would use the word precise instead of the word
accurate. Precise has connotations of repeatability, and I have no
doubt that your eyes, system and predilections would cause you to read
accuracy into something that isn't.

Why do you keep talking about accuracy? If I wanted to know the water
level, I would have to take the meniscus into account. Who cares about
the water level? All I need to know is the change.

I've been reading rules to the nearest 1/2 mm for decades, fabricating
pieces for household repairs. My readings have always been repeatable.

I'm used to reading the level at the skimmer so I can predict when I'll
need to shut the water off. Yesterday I checked to see how precisely I
could read. With the material of my ruler, I didn't know if the
meniscus would be up, down, or flat. I didn't if it would be hard to
see the waterline or if the level would move.

As it was, the change in color made a distinct line across the white
ruler. It could be read precisely and repeatably.

In ancient Greece, a philosopher like you would have had a mechanic like
me executed for testing a theory by experiment.

On Oct 8, 10:16*am, harry k wrote:
On Oct 8, 9:19*am, bud-- wrote:





Mike Paulsen wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? *It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

1. Measure the perimeter. Write it down on a scrap of paper. Throw the
paper away.

2. Find your pool on google earth or google maps satellite view.

3. Print it, being sure to include something in the print which is easy
to measure. (deck, section of fencing, etc.)

4. Weigh the print.

5. Carefully cut out the pool. Weigh the pool

6. Using the actual length of the easy to measure object, determine the
area represented by the entire print.

7. Fill in:

mass of pool cutout * * * * area of pool (unknown)
------------------- * *= * * --------------------
mass of entire print * * * *area of entire print

8. Do the math: (mass of pool) * (area of entire print) / (mass of
entire print) = (area of pool)

It is an exact answer.

Errm...wouldn't you have to allow for the weight of ink in various
areas?



My exact answer is pour 55 gallons of motor oil in the pool (perhaps 0W20).

The oil, of course, floats. Measure the thickness of the oil layer.
Since you know the thickness and the volume, determining the area is
trivial.

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

Nice. *dunno about this: *Drop good sized weight in, measure
difference in water level...

Harry K- Hide quoted text -


Nope, that would calculate volume, not area. Hving been wrong 2 out
of 2 I quit

Harry K

On Oct 9, 2:41*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

I'll phrase my words carefully - what a load! *1/2 millimeter.
Please. *The water in a bathtub couldn't be measured to that degree of
accuracy. *The surface tension of the water alone would throw the
reading off by at least that much.

Interesting that you would use the word precise instead of the word
accurate. *Precise has connotations of repeatability, and I have no
doubt that your eyes, system and predilections would cause you to read
accuracy into something that isn't.

Why do you keep talking about accuracy? *If I wanted to know the water
level, I would have to take the meniscus into account. *Who cares about
the water level? *All I need to know is the change.

Why talk about accuracy in a calculation...? Forget it. I have no
reply for that.

I've been reading rules to the nearest 1/2 mm for decades, fabricating
pieces for household repairs. *My readings have always been repeatable.

Household repairs and you're working to two hundredths of an inch?
What's your house milled from - a block of aluminum? Again, please.
If you're working on a milling machine you measure to the thousandth,
almost everything in home repair can be measured to the 1/16, or 1/32
if you're anal. After that it's just wasted.

I'm used to reading the level at the skimmer so I can predict when I'll
need to shut the water off. *Yesterday I checked to see how precisely I
could read. *With the material of my ruler, I didn't know if the
meniscus would be up, down, or flat. *I didn't if it would be hard to
see the waterline or if the level would move.

As it was, the change in color made a distinct line across the white
ruler. *It could be read precisely and repeatably.

In ancient Greece, a philosopher like you would have had a mechanic like
me executed for testing a theory by experiment.

No. That's not the reason I'd have you executed.

R

bud-- wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
SteveB wrote:
How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a
kidney shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

The skimmer on my neighbors' pool has a throat 145mm high. If I put
the end of a white plastic ruler against the bottom of the throat, the
ruler looks bluish below the waterline and pinkish above. This makes
it easy to read the depth of water in in the throat with a precision
greater than 1 mm.

Now see what units your water meter measures. Wait until the water is
near the bottom of the skimmer throat. Write your depth in mm. Write
your meter reading.

Fill. Write your new depth and meter reading. See how much water was
used and convert to liters. Divide that by mm to get square meters
within 1%.

I don't have a pool so I may be missing what you are saying. I am
reading that you are measuring the difference in the pool level when you
add water.

I really doubt you can measure to the nearest mm. If you can the
possible error is plus/minus 0.5 mm. To measure the height increase to
1% you would have to add 50 mm of water (0.5 mm possible error is 1% of
50 mm). (That excludes temperature effects, evaporation and accuracy of
the water measurement.) Converting, 50 mm is about 2 inches. Might be
more practical when you are filling the pool.

The skimmer throat is 145mm high. If I wait until the level is 25mm, I
can easily add 100mm. If my reading is within .5mm, that would be .5%.

The water comes from a reservoir. Tap temperature is about the same as
pool temperature. Anyway, things balance out. The expansion of water
is about 3*10^-4 per C. If I added 5,000 liters to 95,000 liters that
was 10C cooler, the added water would contract 14.25 liters. However,
in warming .5C, the 95,000 liters already in the pool would expand 14.25
liters.

My concern about temperature would be not to make measurements while the
sun was high. If while I was filling, the sun warmed the pool 1C, that
would raise the level about 1/2 mm.

In summer, the neighbors' pool could easily lose 25mm a week. It can be
calculated, based on water temperature, dew point, and wind. At that
rate, it could lose about 1/2 mm during a 3-hour filling process.

On a given October morning (and probably most mornings of the year),
calculations would probably show a negligible gain or loss.

"SteveB" wrote in message

How do I figure the area of a pool from the perimeter? It is a kidney
shaped (exaggerated) pool.

Steve

Go the the mfr; he'll have all the figures AND usually a method to
calculate. Try other mfrs if yours doesn't have the calculators. They
do exist.

Still got the paperwork? It's in there too.

Or, lay it out on grid paper and count the grids, remembering to take
into account any depth changes. Might need a little algebra for a
shallow to deep slope.

HTH,

Twayne`

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 9, 2:41 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

I'll phrase my words carefully - what a load! 1/2 millimeter.
Please. The water in a bathtub couldn't be measured to that degree of
accuracy. The surface tension of the water alone would throw the
reading off by at least that much.
Interesting that you would use the word precise instead of the word
accurate. Precise has connotations of repeatability, and I have no
doubt that your eyes, system and predilections would cause you to read
accuracy into something that isn't.
Why do you keep talking about accuracy? If I wanted to know the water
level, I would have to take the meniscus into account. Who cares about
the water level? All I need to know is the change.

Why talk about accuracy in a calculation...? Forget it. I have no
reply for that.

I used to calibrate Simpson 260s. The accuracy left something to be
desired, especially on AC. Cheaper meters may have been equally
accurate, but the meter movement and mirrored scale made the 260 more
precise. Precision was very desirable even if the accuracy didn't match it.

Pushing a ruler against the skimmer throat won't tell me accurately
where the water level is, but as long as it gives precise, repeatable
readings, it will tell me the change in level. Change can be very
useful for calculations.


I've been reading rules to the nearest 1/2 mm for decades, fabricating
pieces for household repairs. My readings have always been repeatable.

Household repairs and you're working to two hundredths of an inch?
What's your house milled from - a block of aluminum? Again, please.
If you're working on a milling machine you measure to the thousandth,
almost everything in home repair can be measured to the 1/16, or 1/32
if you're anal. After that it's just wasted.

Don't you ever use stacks of playing cards as shims or gages? That
gives you a resolution of about .25mm.

If you're repairing something and need the piece to fit, it may be
worthwhile to read a rule to the nearest .5mm. It's roughly 1/32".

I decided decades ago that 16ths and 32nds were anal. They require
working with fractions of five denominators. Harder to read the rule,
harder to remember, harder to write, harder to add and subtract.

The correct way of doing it would be to draw out the two circles that
make the upper and lower part. Find the area of those two spots, then
subtract out the arcs that are over lapping.


--
Dymphna
Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com