A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the ground,
entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to the
outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I just
get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year. It
would take four years for the first option to be better. I'm not sure I'll
be here much past six years, when my youngest starts college and we want to
downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not protect
against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for $8.50 per month?

Inquiring minds want to know.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:28:41 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the ground,
entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to the
outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Does your insurance cover acts of dog?

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:28:41 -0400, Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground,
entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to the
outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Does your insurance cover acts of dog?

Acts of God == Underground dog fence == acts of dog. You're a
professional comedian, aren't you? Maybe you should change your moniker to
AZ Genius.

A whole house protector wouldn't have protected your invisible fence, for
basically the reason the fence people told you - it was fried from the
near-direct lightening hit. I think it would have protected the Cable TV
and other electronic equipment, assuming the surge was coming via the
electric wiring and not a similar issue to the fence - down the cable line.
I don't think the whole house protectors care whether the surge is coming in
via the wire from the meter, or a wire from so circuit such as an outside
pole light, or in your case the one the fence was connected to. The
exception might be things on the same circuit with the fence since they
would be 'up stream' from the panel where the protection would be.

As for the cost, you are probably best getting a couple estimates - just be
sure they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Equipment does very and so will
the cost.

Whole house protection could be a sales plus if you sell the house, but for
$400 you can buy a lot of plug-strip type protectors for your electronic
equipment, which you can take with you if you move. They also make small
single outlet models that are used for things like microwave ovens, stove,
and other places where you may not need or want a regular plug-strip.


"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" wrote in message
...
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to
the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I
just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year.
It would take four years for the first option to be better. I'm not sure
I'll be here much past six years, when my youngest starts college and we
want to downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not protect
against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for $8.50 per
month?

Inquiring minds want to know.

"Mark" writes:

A whole house protector wouldn't have protected your invisible fence,
for basically the reason the fence people told you - it was fried from
the near-direct lightening hit. I think it would have protected the
Cable TV and other electronic equipment, assuming the surge was coming
via the electric wiring and not a similar issue to the fence - down
the cable line. I don't think the whole house protectors care whether
the surge is coming in via the wire from the meter, or a wire from so
circuit such as an outside pole light, or in your case the one the
fence was connected to. The exception might be things on the same
circuit with the fence since they would be 'up stream' from the panel
where the protection would be.

As for the cost, you are probably best getting a couple estimates -
just be sure they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Equipment does
very and so will the cost.

Whole house protection could be a sales plus if you sell the house,
but for $400 you can buy a lot of plug-strip type protectors for your
electronic equipment, which you can take with you if you move. They
also make small single outlet models that are used for things like
microwave ovens, stove, and other places where you may not need or
want a regular plug-strip.



I agree that a whole house surge suppressor is the best solution
though as you pointed out, it would not protect against transients
entering via the invisble fence.

However, couldn't the OP either buy (or if not available jury rig) a
separate surge suppressor going across the wires to the invisible
fence. Basically, you need a couple of MOVS across the two wires to
the fence and to a good ground. That should surve to stop inbound
transients along the dog wiring.

blueman wrote:
"Mark" writes:

A whole house protector wouldn't have protected your invisible fence,
for basically the reason the fence people told you - it was fried from
the near-direct lightening hit. I think it would have protected the
Cable TV and other electronic equipment, assuming the surge was coming
via the electric wiring and not a similar issue to the fence - down
the cable line. I don't think the whole house protectors care whether
the surge is coming in via the wire from the meter, or a wire from so
circuit such as an outside pole light, or in your case the one the
fence was connected to. The exception might be things on the same
circuit with the fence since they would be 'up stream' from the panel
where the protection would be.

As for the cost, you are probably best getting a couple estimates -
just be sure they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Equipment does
very and so will the cost.

Whole house protection could be a sales plus if you sell the house,
but for $400 you can buy a lot of plug-strip type protectors for your
electronic equipment, which you can take with you if you move. They
also make small single outlet models that are used for things like
microwave ovens, stove, and other places where you may not need or
want a regular plug-strip.



I agree that a whole house surge suppressor is the best solution
though as you pointed out, it would not protect against transients
entering via the invisble fence.

However, couldn't the OP either buy (or if not available jury rig) a
separate surge suppressor going across the wires to the invisible
fence. Basically, you need a couple of MOVS across the two wires to
the fence and to a good ground. That should surve to stop inbound
transients along the dog wiring.

Where do you get a "good ground"? A surge is relatively high frequency
so wire inductance is a major factor. A branch circuit ground wire is
not a "good ground" unless it is very short to the service panel. The
branch circuit ground wire also introduces the surge into the house
wiring downstream from the service entrance of power and phone and
cable, where you can place suppressors. If you add a ground rod for a
"good ground", the potential at the rod can be far different from the
house earthing electrodes (just like the invisible fence was at a far
different potential than the house earthing system).

Best protection would be if the invisible fence unit was adjacent to the
power service with a short ground wire to the power ground bus or house
earthing electrode system. If you added a MOV from the fence wire to the
earthing system you might shunt out the signal from the capacitance of
the MOV (or maybe it would work). Hams have lightning arrestors for
antenna wires entering a building - should work and not kill the signal.
But they wouldn't necessarily protect the fence unit. You would have to
ask the manufacturer how to protect the invisible fence unit.

--
bud--

bud-- writes:

blueman wrote:
"Mark" writes:

A whole house protector wouldn't have protected your invisible fence,
for basically the reason the fence people told you - it was fried from
the near-direct lightening hit. I think it would have protected the
Cable TV and other electronic equipment, assuming the surge was coming
via the electric wiring and not a similar issue to the fence - down
the cable line. I don't think the whole house protectors care whether
the surge is coming in via the wire from the meter, or a wire from so
circuit such as an outside pole light, or in your case the one the
fence was connected to. The exception might be things on the same
circuit with the fence since they would be 'up stream' from the panel
where the protection would be.

As for the cost, you are probably best getting a couple estimates -
just be sure they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Equipment does
very and so will the cost.

Whole house protection could be a sales plus if you sell the house,
but for $400 you can buy a lot of plug-strip type protectors for your
electronic equipment, which you can take with you if you move. They
also make small single outlet models that are used for things like
microwave ovens, stove, and other places where you may not need or
want a regular plug-strip.



I agree that a whole house surge suppressor is the best solution
though as you pointed out, it would not protect against transients
entering via the invisble fence.

However, couldn't the OP either buy (or if not available jury rig) a
separate surge suppressor going across the wires to the invisible
fence. Basically, you need a couple of MOVS across the two wires to
the fence and to a good ground. That should surve to stop inbound
transients along the dog wiring.

Where do you get a "good ground"? A surge is relatively high frequency
so wire inductance is a major factor. A branch circuit ground wire is
not a "good ground" unless it is very short to the service panel. The
branch circuit ground wire also introduces the surge into the house
wiring downstream from the service entrance of power and phone and
cable, where you can place suppressors. If you add a ground rod for a
"good ground", the potential at the rod can be far different from the
house earthing electrodes (just like the invisible fence was at a far
different potential than the house earthing system).

Best protection would be if the invisible fence unit was adjacent to
the power service with a short ground wire to the power ground bus or
house earthing electrode system. If you added a MOV from the fence
wire to the earthing system you might shunt out the signal from the
capacitance of the MOV (or maybe it would work). Hams have lightning
arrestors for antenna wires entering a building - should work and not
kill the signal. But they wouldn't necessarily protect the fence
unit. You would have to ask the manufacturer how to protect the
invisible fence unit.

I was hoping/assuming that you could arrange to have the invisible
fence wire enter the house near the service entrance (and hence near
the ground rods). I know in my house, I like to have all the utility
entrances grouped in one place anyway to minimize the clutter
everywhere else.

Then you would have a proper service ground.

blueman wrote:
"Mark" writes:

A whole house protector wouldn't have protected your invisible fence,
for basically the reason the fence people told you - it was fried from
the near-direct lightening hit. I think it would have protected the
Cable TV and other electronic equipment, assuming the surge was coming
via the electric wiring and not a similar issue to the fence - down
the cable line. I don't think the whole house protectors care whether
the surge is coming in via the wire from the meter, or a wire from so
circuit such as an outside pole light, or in your case the one the
fence was connected to. The exception might be things on the same
circuit with the fence since they would be 'up stream' from the panel
where the protection would be.

As for the cost, you are probably best getting a couple estimates -
just be sure they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Equipment does
very and so will the cost.

Whole house protection could be a sales plus if you sell the house,
but for $400 you can buy a lot of plug-strip type protectors for your
electronic equipment, which you can take with you if you move. They
also make small single outlet models that are used for things like
microwave ovens, stove, and other places where you may not need or
want a regular plug-strip.



I agree that a whole house surge suppressor is the best solution
though as you pointed out, it would not protect against transients
entering via the invisble fence.

However, couldn't the OP either buy (or if not available jury rig) a
separate surge suppressor going across the wires to the invisible
fence. Basically, you need a couple of MOVS across the two wires to
the fence and to a good ground. That should surve to stop inbound
transients along the dog wiring.

Yes you can do that, and you can even double up (parallel) on the MOVs
to make it stronger. Hook it up to a ground and go the extra mile and
drive a 10 foot ground rod where the wires enter the house and also
ground to that.

That electric fence is just a big antenna begging to get zapped again.

Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the
wire to the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in
including a lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall
underneath, tripped that circuit breaker, and also fried the cable
(cable TV and internet) at the first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a
whole house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in
this case, that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet,
not from the utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or
not, and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and
received an electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I
have two panels. Another company will install a whole house surge
protector for free, I just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each
month, about $100 per year. It would take four years for the first
option to be better. I'm not sure I'll be here much past six years,
when my youngest starts college and we want to downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not
protect against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for
$8.50 per month?
Inquiring minds want to know.

A whole-house surge protector is a good idea, irrespective of whether you
have dogs.

A whole-house surge protector costs about $50 (more or less). If your hand
fits a screwdriver, you can install it yourself. Instructions come with the
unit.

If, after you buy one, it still doesn't make sense, post here and I or
someone else will be glad to advise you.

"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" wrote in message
...
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to
the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I
just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year.
It would take four years for the first option to be better. I'm not sure
I'll be here much past six years, when my youngest starts college and we
want to downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not protect
against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for $8.50 per
month?

Inquiring minds want to know.

If you've never had a problem with line lightning, I wouldn't bother. I
don't believe that the type of surge protectors you are referring to would
do much to protect sensitive electronics anyway. If you want them to protect
things like well pumps and motors, fine, but the typical lightning strike
that causes a surge, won't be stopped quickly enough or completely, to
safeguard sensitive electronics, and won't help at all if your underground
dog wire gets hit again

RBM wrote:

If you've never had a problem with line lightning, I wouldn't bother.
I don't believe that the type of surge protectors you are referring
to would do much to protect sensitive electronics anyway. If you want
them to protect things like well pumps and motors, fine, but the
typical lightning strike that causes a surge, won't be stopped
quickly enough or completely, to safeguard sensitive electronics, and
won't help at all if your underground dog wire gets hit again

You're spot on - if the lightning hits your house. If, however, the
lightning strike is merely near your home, a whole-house surge protector
(WHSP) will help.

As for "quickly enough," reputable WHSPs are rated from "instantaneous" to
five nanoseconds. Top-line WHSPs (Leviton, Intermatic, Square-D, etc.), can
handle surges up to 180,000 amps and provide up to $25,000 damage
reimbursement for connected equipment loss.

Some WHSPs come with attachments to protect CATV and telephone lines.

RBM wrote:
"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" wrote in message
...
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to
the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I
just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year.
It would take four years for the first option to be better. I'm not sure
I'll be here much past six years, when my youngest starts college and we
want to downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not protect
against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for $8.50 per
month?

Inquiring minds want to know.

If you've never had a problem with line lightning, I wouldn't bother. I
don't believe that the type of surge protectors you are referring to would
do much to protect sensitive electronics anyway. If you want them to protect
things like well pumps and motors, fine, but the typical lightning strike
that causes a surge, won't be stopped quickly enough or completely, to
safeguard sensitive electronics,

You have this backwards. Whole house surge protection will normally
protect electronic equipment, as long as the surge comes from the power
lines. As much as possible, you want the surge protector *between* the
surge and the equipment. Always add surge protection for incoming phone
and cable tv wires also.

When a well pump is hit it normally takes a surge from lighting hitting
the wire, the well casing, or anything close by. This is between the
pump and the surge protector so the well doesn't get much protection.

"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" wrote in message
...
A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to
the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I
just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year.
It would take four years for the first option to be better. I'm not sure
I'll be here much past six years, when my youngest starts college and we
want to downsize.

So, should I invest in a whole house surge protector? Does it not protect
against lighting? Do I buy the $400 version or "lease" for $8.50 per
month?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Check with your home owners insurance agent. We had 2 computers fail due to
a close lightning strike and insurance company replaced them. WW

On Sep 16, 10:55*pm, "WW" wrote:
"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" wrote in message

...



A couple of weeks ago, lighting struck a tree near my house, hit the
ground, entered my underground invisible dog fence, ran through the wire to
the outlet in the garage where the control unit is plugged in including a
lighting protector, scorched the outlet and wall underneath, tripped that
circuit breaker, and also fried the cable (cable TV and internet) at the
first splitter.

Fortunately the cable repair was free, but I paid over $240 for the
invisible fence repair. *I asked the invisible fence company if a whole
house surge protector would have helped, and they said not in this case,
that the circuit was fried from the outside to the outlet, not from the
utility power.

So I'm debating whether to invest in a whole house surge protector or not,
and if so, to buy or "lease". *I have two circuit panels and received an
electrician's estimate of over $400 installed since I have two panels.
Another company will install a whole house surge protector for free, I
just get $8.50 added to my electric bill each month, about $100 per year.